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Kulapavana

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Everything posted by Kulapavana

  1. That is the way I see it as well. Many people are distracted from the real quality and value of these books by such controversial remarks. Still, like you said, many if not most of his followers insist that they are justified and valid. They still propose to build a 'Vedic Planetarium' where the Sun is closer to the Earth than Moon simply because 'Prabhupada said so'. The books of Narayana Maharaja or Sridhara Maharaja do not seem to generate such emotions in readers. They may not be into the subject matter of these books, but at least they are not turned off by such controversial remarks.
  2. There is a group of sentrimentalists who believe we left the direct association with Krsna - without any reason - and came to explore this material universe of samsara. Whenever these people quote selected statements of their guru, they expect you to reject shastras as well as previous acharyas and blindly follow their new doctrine...
  3. We were and still are Brahman, spirit, part and parcel of God, a minute spark which is part of the dazzling light of brahmajyoti. How is that not being a part of God? Why do shastras speak about svarupya mukti? Receiving a boon of having a spiritual body just like Lord's Vishnu? Because at the present time you DO NOT have such a developed spiritual body. Gaudiya bhaktas do not desire svarupya mukti because they want to DEVELOP their own spiritual body of the servant of the servants of Krsna. And for the last time, there is NO MAYA in the spiritual world. It was not maya that brought you to the material world. It was your own desire to explore the dark bank of the Viraja River.
  4. Based on the standard Gaudiya Vaishnava doctrine, we came to this world of maya from tatastha sakti, where our spiritual body was un-developed and un-differentiated (we were all very similar small sparks of consciousness). It is not that we were first gopis and we are now zeros... We received a seed of bhakti from great Vaishnavas, and now we have begun to evolve and grow spiritually, eventually developing full fledged devotional consciousness - our spiritual body is our devotional rasa, a particular way of serving Krsna. In spiritual sense you ARE your spiritual body.
  5. It is still happening in some circles: Dec 05, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK (SUN) — Dated: July 11, 2008 A DECLARATION OF ALL DISCIPLES OF SRILA PRABHUPADA WE, THE DISCIPLES AND FOLLOWERS OF HIS DIVINE GRACE A.C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA DECLARE THAT: 1. BBT Trustees[1] shall ensure that a sacred spiritual tradition is formed around the books of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada ("Srila Prabhupada") such that this generation and the subsequent future generations for the next 10,000 years shall treat all of Srila Prabhupada's vani, or teachings, with utmost sacred respect, as words of God. http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-08/editorials3706.htm
  6. Yes, we must be judged using the same standards we use for others. It applies to both individual people and religious movements.
  7. Eric, the Revelation is a typical shamanic writing. These visions are usually very private and personal or sometimes related to the entire tribe in which the shaman practices. It is a huge stretch to think such visions speak of the entire Earth, some 2000 yearslater. Typical megalomania of a religious zealot. Why worry about things you have no way of changing? If there is a big war we may all die. So what? We are destined to die anyway. Just make sure you use your time well.
  8. Like our movement does not have them (mistakes and fanatics)? Should people give up trying to reason with us because of that? That is why the rational people should prevail by starting proper conflict resolution as soon as possible. A lot of people think a compromise is needed.
  9. I thought that the central teaching of this story was that Lord Caitanya did not appear in order to punish the wicked, but to show them mercy. That is what adi-guru Lord Nityananda was teaching. I did not say anywhere that such offenses should be tolerated without doing anything about it. But WHAT we do about it is a measure of our intelligence and spiritual vision. What I suggested is one of the appropriate actions from BRS: to sit down with an offender and convince them of their error in judgement.
  10. So what would you do? Hang someone? Remember the story of Jagai and Madhai? In the scriptures you can find verses to justify all kinds of responses in this situation, but ultimately you have to do what is most likely to generate a beneficial outcome.
  11. Not all Iskcon members are so naive... Anybody with a $200 telescope can look at the surface of the Moon in the light-to-shadow transition zone and observe how the sunlight interacts with the Moon's mountains and craters. If the Moon was further away than Sun, it's side visible from Earth would always be fully (or almost fully) illuminated by the Sun, i.e the Moon would always be full. You can make a very simple observation using a lightbulb (Sun) and a ball (Moon). This exercise should be mandatory for all Iskcon devotees. The object of this discussion is not to destroy anybody's faith in their guru, but to put that faith into a proper context. Srila Prabhupada was a perfect guru because he gave his disciples Krsna, and because he was fully surrendered to Krsna's service - not because everything he said was infallible. He was infallible in his devotion to Krsna. SP did not believe in Moon landing and I see that as a healthy scepticism. But his insistance on the Moon being further away than Sun is clearly a misunderstanding on his part, most likely due to being unfamiliar with the subject matter. His guru, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, gave a correct distance to the Moon in his translation of Surya Siddhanta. <!-- / message -->
  12. Anybody with a $200 telescope can look at the surface of the Moon in the light-to-shadow transition zone and observe how the sunlight interacts with the Moon's mountains and craters. If the Moon was further away than Sun, it's side visible from Earth would always be fully (or almost fully) illuminated by the Sun, i.e the Moon would always be full. You can make a very simple observation using a lightbulb (Sun) and a ball (Moon). This exercise should be mandatory for all Iskcon devotees. The object of this discussion is not to destroy anybody's faith in their guru, but to put that faith into a proper context. Srila Prabhupada was a perfect guru because he gave his disciples Krsna, and because he was fully surrendered to Krsna's service - not because everything he said was infallible. He was infallible in his devotion to Krsna.
  13. Iskcon devotees think: We are better servants of Lord Jagannatha! Puri temple priests think: We are better servants of Lord Jagannatha! Genuine competition of the eager servants or just an ego trip? Hard to tell... we will judge by the results. Will the service increase? Will more people be inspired to serve Lord Jagannatha? Lord Caitanya did not organize harinama protests to get Haridasa Thakura admitted to the Puri Temple - He praised Thakura's humility. Maybe that is the real lesson: humility. Iskcon very often comes across as arrogant. Maybe this is another lesson from Krsna to teach us more humility. IMHO Iskcon leaders should sit down with the Puri pandas and work out a mutually acceptable compromise. Just like Lord Chaitanya an Kazi. He convinced Kazi with His humility, thoughtfulnes, wisdom, and kindness. It is not just a story - it is an instruction to be followed by all His followers. <!-- / message -->
  14. Iskcon devotees think: We are better servants of Lord Jagannatha! Puri temple priests think: We are better servants of Lord Jagannatha! Genuine competition of the eager servants or jest an ego trip? Hard to tell... we will judge by the results. Will the service increase? Will more people be inspired to serve Lord Jagannatha? Lord Caitanya did not organize harinama protests to get Haridasa Thakura admitted to the Puri Temple - He praised Thakura's humility. Maybe that is the real lesson: humility. Iskcon very often comes across as arrogant. Maybe this is another lesson from Krsna to teach us more humility. IMHO Iskcon leaders should sit down with the Puri pandas and work out a mutually acceptable compromise. Just like Lord Chaitanya an Kazi. He convinced Kazi with His humility, thoughtfulnes, wisdom, and kindness. It is not just a story - it is an instruction to be followed by all His followers.
  15. And what are Varaha prabhu's farming credentials? How many crops did he raise in his life?
  16. My prayers are with him, however little they mean. Such situations are sobering for all of us. We should be serious about serving the Lord and getting ready for our own exit. I hope Maharaja is not suffering from too much pain. I am not very afraid of death itself, but I am afraid of lots of pain. I have personally met Maharaja just recently, and he made a very good impression on me. My pranams to him and his disciples and wellwishers.
  17. How do you know you have electricity in your house? Because your lights are on. I see plenty of lights outside Iskcon and Prabhupada disciples, and quite a few dark corners inside the institution Prabhupada created. Let me translate that so that Joe Public brain can understand: The claims that only Prabhupada is authorized as a Vaishnava acharya are 100% bogus.
  18. I talk to a lot of new people in our movement and they are far, far from being poorly informed. They all know the basic history of Iskcon and none of them think that their chosen guru is above the possibility of a fall-down. They often approach devotees that have been around for a long time for advice in chosing a guru. And they usually chose wisely. Maybe in Africa, India, or Asia, it is different, but in Europe and USA things are just like I described. Also, many devotees who initially start in Iskcon end up chosing a guru from other organizations. I see it all the time.
  19. Srila Prabhupada's disciples introduced a notion, that the only real and bona-fide guru is a maha-bhagavata sampradaya acharya. That is a complete concoction. SP says in NOD that even a kanishta bhakta can be a guru. And very often this is precisely who gets approved by the GBC. Are you shocked that a kanistha guru falls down? I'm not. What I wrote above is to show that approval does not ensure success. A sannyasi is a natural guru. Prahupada started initiating disciples in Jhansi, even before he became sannyasi, but after taking sannyasa he initiated quite a few people rather quickly (that was still in India). To his senior Godbrothers he explained that as a sannyasi, he must take on disciples. And nobody in GM had a problem with that, because this a vedic system. Now some of Srila Prabhupada's disciples invented a bizzare set of rules, under which the only bona fide guru for ever is Srila Prabhupada. And they act surprised when everybody considers them to be a bunch of deviants.
  20. According to the pancaratrika injunctions NOBODY is to be worshipped in front of the Deities. That is why Deity curtains are closed even for the worship of Tulasi-devi. A disciple is permitted to place his guru shoes on the left side and lower of the Deities. Placing images or murtis of your guru is never mentioned in the pancaratrik system. In hindsight it is easy to say that. Actually I think even a better solution would have been removing challengers from Iskcon altogether. I have absolutely no idea why Srila Prabhupada not only allowed Kirtanananda to remain in Iskcon after his numerous deviations and indiscretions, but made him one of the most important leaders in his movement, and in 1977 authorizing him to be a guru.
  21. Some 90% of sannyasis approved by Prabhupada fell down. Proof positive that approval is no guarantee of success. When he approved them, were they proper (bona fide) sannyasis? When they fell down, did it not create confusion among the devotees? Srila Prabhupada had in mind a guru approval system as well - you pass the Bhaktivedanta level exam and you can start initiating your own disciples. That was his plan. He certainly approved before his passing several persons as initiating gurus - most of them fell down. Again, proof positive that approval is no guarantee of success. So somehow Srila Prabhupada's system was all perfect, and the GBC system is all wrong?? That is as bogus as it gets... The list of our deviants is very long and Harikesa's name is on it too - I just listed some of the more abhorrent ones.
  22. "No reasonable attempt is ever made to discuss deviations, such as the 2/3rd majority voting system that stamps a person as a maha-bhagavat within ISKCON". Kurma (the liar) No such thing... nobody is saying that people approved by GBC to take disciples are maha-bhagavats. Lie #1: "All gurus are maha-bhagavats" Lie #2: "GBC is rubber stamping bogus gurus" Lie #3: "GBC is rubber stamping fake maha bhagavats" Clowns like him give our movement a bad name, just like the Bhavanandas, Kirtanannandas, Hansaduttas of the past.
  23. Prabhu, check the underside of the yellowing leaves with a magnifying lens for mites or other microscopic bugs. I always have to spray my Tulasis with organic pesticides for mite control in winter.
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