Guruvani

According to the Bible, Judas had to point out Jesus to the Romans because they couldn't tell him apart from the other Jews.

If Jesus was black, then why would Judas need to point out Jesus to the Romans?

If Jesus was black it would have been quite easy to pick him out of a group of Jews.

The Bible says that Jesus didn't have any unique features that made him stand out from his disciples.

He looked just like any simple Jewish working class man.

If Jesus was a black man in a group of Jews, then he would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

You think he did it wrong? He's not infallable?

According to the Saraswata school he apparently took diksha from the wrong guy.

The Saraswatas don't even include the diksha guru of Bhaktivinode in the parampara.

................................. go figure.

Do you think Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur is an ordinary devotee? When a nitya siddha descends to this world is he subject to the rules and regulations that apply to those attempting to practice sadhana bhakti?

 

Actually, Sridhar Maharaja said that Bhaktivinode was sadhana-siddha, not nitya-siddha.

At least that is what I heard at SCSMandir.

Bhakti Sudhir Maharaja told me that Sridhar Maharaja said Bhaktivinode came up from the ranks of the conditioned souls to become siddha.

So, I don't buy the "nitya-siddha" theory behind Bhaktivinode.

Nitya-siddhas don't blaspheme the Bhagavat, the Vaishnavas or other such things that Bhaktivinode did before he became a Vaishnava.

Actually, he explained that he hadn't yet found anyone in whom he had the absolute faith one must have in the spiritual master. So it's not so much that he didn't place such value on initiation as that he placed such strong value that he insisted on doing it right.

Well, his son Bimala Prasada didn't consider that taking diksha from Vipina Bihari Goswami was the right choice.

Otherwise, how could Bimala Prasad be so against the diksha guru of Bhaktivinode Thakur?

Bimala Prasad considered that Bhaktivinode was superior to his diksha guru.

So, how is that "doing it right"?

 

His mata was ethopian, afarian. Afarians nevah cut dere hair, mon, doncha know nuttin?

 

haribol, mahaksadasa

Jesus was a Nazarene and the Nazarenes always kept short hair.

Originally Posted by Guest

Diksa from a living guru is utterly important to complete the process of initiation into the Parampara.

 

Somebody should have told that to Bhaktivinode Thakur before he wrote Sri Krishna Samhita.

 

 

A dead body is not lamentable but it is lamentable that a saktyavesa avatar (according to Prabhupada anyway) comes to Earth to spread God consciousness and is killed by Earth's residents. It's like if Prabhupada was poisoned saying "oh well, no big deal" its just a dead body left behind. Just a tad bit insensitive there Sparky.

So, Krishna did not protect his "shaktyavesha avatar"?

Jesus was crucified by Earthings and there was nothing God could do to stop that?

If Jesus was shaktyavesha, then his getting killed on the cross was his lila.

Why should anyone cry if Jesus was performing his lila of getting crucifed on the cross?

If Jesus had not been crucified on the cross then the blood of the lamb could not have been the salvation for all of mankind right?

Without the crucifiction, then there would be no salvation for man?

So, the crucifiction is good no?

Jesus died on the cross to accept all the sins of mankind so we could all go to heaven and enjoy our senses right?

the problem is that "Jesus" could not have had long hair as portrayed by Michelangelo.

In the writings of Paul and other places in the Bible it is shameful and a disgrace for a man to have long hair.

So, Christian researchers have concluded that actually "Jesus" could not have kept his hair long.

Forensic science has concluded that Jesus would have looked more like this..........

oh, yeah, Bhaktivinode wrote Sri Krishna Samhita before he he was ever "initiated" by Vipina Bihari Goswami or connected with Jagannatha das Babaji.

So, he was commenting on Srimad Bhagavatam before he was even initiated.

Apparently, at the time of writing Sri Krishna Samhita, Bhaktivinode did not place absolute value on formal initiation.

Oh....ok.

 

Vishoka....

I got to know him in Badger, Ca.

 

He is a really nice gentleman and quite a witty fellow.

 

He wrote a novel once and it read something like Ramayana.

 

The guy is not an idiot for sure.

 

I like Vishoka..... he is a very nice devotee.

This is an interesting assertion from someone who has claimed, on this forum, to have been initiated by a ritvik process because someone else did the fire, or because he heard the mantras by tape. I don't have the time to track down the posts, but maybe someone else can.

 

Srila Prabhupada gave personal approval for initiations for a couple of years after, sometimes delegating the choosing of names and even chanting on the beads. These devotees were not considered ritviks, but were simply carrying out a practical function to facilitate Srila Prabhupada's mercy. I did hear of one Godbrother, though, who claimed after leaving that devotees initiated after a certain date were his disciples and that only the first three or so initiated at that temple were Prabhupada's disciples. I can tell you, though, that none of those disciples, as much as they may have respected the TP when he was acting properly, ever had such a conception. All were told by Srila Prabhupada, either personally or by letter, that he had accepted them. The TP has since dropped off the face of the earth. He no longer exists--never died, met any tragic anything. Just ceased to exist. I have my ideas . . .

I got my second initiation "brahman thread" after the ritviks had been appointed. Because second initiation is the one they call "diksha" I therefore tell that I was initiated via the ritvik system.

After Srila Prabhupada appointed the ritviks there were actually very few initiations in ISKCON. I got the brahman initiation just a few weeks before Srila Prabhupada passed. Jayathirtha was one of the few ritviks who actually performed ritvik initiations after the ritviks were appointed.

But actually I personally could care less if I am initiated or not initiated.

It's just a formality.

If i ever felt a need to be re-initiated it certainly wouldn't be in ISKCON or SCSMath.

If I lost faith in something it would be the whole Saraswata system, not just what Srila Prabhupada established in ISKCON.

Really, if one is going to cut and make new beginnings it would start with Bhaktivinode Thakur himself who made a major departure from "traditional" Gaudiya thinking with such books as Sri Krishna Samhita etc.

Progress means elimination of lower things and acceptance of the higher truths

 

http://scsmath.com/memories/07a/070303_Srilekha_GPurnima/070303-SrilkehaArticle-GPurnima.htm

Then she obviously went the wrong way.

She eliminated the higher thing and accepted the lower thing.

My Dear Sri Govinda,

Please accept my blessings and offer the same to your good

wife Sri Lekha Devi Dasi.

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

 

 

Srila Prabhupada directly offered his blessings to this person and she felt she needed re-initiated by Sridhar Maharaja?

I can't understand why.

Allahabad

21st January, 1971

Detroit

My Dear Sri Govinda,

Please accept my blessings and offer the same to your good

wife Sri Lekha Devi Dasi. I am in due receipt of your letter

dated 31st December, 1970 and have noted the contents carefully.

I am so glad to hear how you are strictly following the

regulative principles of devotional service and chanting

regularly 16 rounds daily, mostly before Lord Jagannatha. That

is our strength in spiritual life and will make for your rapid

advancement in Krishna Consciousness. There are three stages of

<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[1]<!--[endif]-->chanting:<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[1]<!--[endif]--> offensively; free of offense, or in the liberated

stage; and in full love of Godhead. Simply continue chanting and

any offenses you may be committing, because they are not

intentional, will soon vanish by the grace of Lord Jagannath.

I am glad to see that incense distribution is increasing

and your method of distribution, that is with our literature

prasadam, etc. is very nice. So continue it. I am especially

pleased at how you are distributing our books, particularly to

the schools and universities. This program is so important and

should be increased more and more. We want to flood the world

over with our books. So go on in this way and Krishna will

surely bless you.

I have studied your method for care of funds, etc. So far

as filling out forms is concerned, that is too much botheration.

No one should require money but simply you should see to it that

the goods required are supplied. In materialistic calculation

they think all these things are necessary, but in spiritual life

it is not required. Things should be done as simply as possible.

Presently Karandhar is seeing to keeping our books so that they

meet with government standards. You can correspond with him in

that regard.

Please offer my blessings to the others there. Hoping this

will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Guruvani preparing to enter Audarya Fellowship and ruin another thread while making himself the topic of conversation instead.

I talk philosophy.

You are the one that makes me the topic.

Don't blame me when you guys make me the topic.

I talk about issues and philosophy, not about myself.

So, I am waiting for your apology!

These are clear proof that Prabhupada never intended a Ritvik system after his departure. Because introducing a Ritvik system means going against the Vedic System.

the Vedic system is that the Acharyas adjust for time and circumstance.

The Vedic system is dynamic.

It is not some dogma for fools to use as a livelyhood.

I'm sure if one heard the mantras through a slightly defective tape full of audio distortion as many did then (my experience) it would have been offensive to hear it again directly from the lips of Srila Sridhar Maharaja. Ispiration is verboten unless the rules are followed to a "t". Yeah that's it, I'm sure.

so, you say that initiations sanctioned directly by Srila Prabhupada were not valid?

I heard the tape, there was no audio distortion.

It was very clear and directly sanctioned by Srila Prabhupada.

Sridhar Maharaja re-initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

I doubt seriously that Srila Prabhupada would be pleased with either of them.

Sridhar Maharaja has a rather large crop of disciples and followers that went down hard.

So, there must be a reason for that.

There was no magic at SCSM or these big shots wouldn't have gone down.

Even Govinda Maharaja left sannyasa and lived family life for many years.

So, where is all this magic that you guys are talking about?

I don't see it.

But what about situations where the ritvik was found to be engaged in sinful activities?

 

- Muralidhar das

Sridhar Maharaja also has a few ritviks that bit the dust as well.

Did Govinda Maharaja re-initiate all Sridhar Maharaja's disciples that took initiation through ritviks that fell down? (i.e. Akshayananda Swami, Bhakti Sudhir Goswami etc.)

Sridhar Maharaja had his own ritviks that initiated disciples on his behalf.

Some of them fell down.

Were all the devotees they initiated re-initiated by Govinda Maharaja?

the moderator posted this note on the first post of this topic, but most people are not going to see it now, so I have posted here again.

moderator's note: regarding your statement

"In this website i noted that every topic somehow ends with Krsna being the only way to end all sufferings and be prosperous, since this website is still named as Hindu-religion.net instead of ISCKON.com i would like to remind as Hindus we worship the respective gods for their respective roles and not call other gods as Demi Gods and only Krsna as supreme."

 

This section of the website you have posted in, is the forum for Audarya-Fellowship. A little farther down the front page is the forum you refered to "Hindu-Religion.net" where you should find people who post with the more Poly Theistic view of religion. Sorry for any confusion. In early 2006, we had put up the following notice:

"The forums at Hare-Krishna.org and Hindu-Religion.net have been re-merged with the Audarya Forums in seperate categories, so that users can access all three forums with a single login. Visitors from those sites will be sent directly to their own forums, but if they browse around enough they may make their way back to the Audarya forums as well."

 

 

 

Guruvani preparing to enter Audarya Fellowship and ruin another thread while making himself the topic of conversation instead.

I see Theist is home from church and on the attack.

If she wanted to also hear the mantras from an exalted soul such as Srila Sridhar Maharaja there is no problem. What a wonderful thought.

A wonderful thought that is forbidden by shastric injunction.

A wonderful offense is more like it.

In fact, the GBC wasn't officially established until July 28, 1970.

Srilekha was initiated on July 19, 1970.

So, Srila Prabhupada was still approving all initiations at that time she took initiation.

Thus, she rejected Srila Prabhupada, not a ritvik that didn't exist at that time.

There were no "ritviks" in 1970.

The intiations were performed by temple presidents, brahmanas and sannyasis.

Initiations were recommended by the TP and directly approved by the personal secretary to Srila Prabhupada in 1970.

"Ritviks" weren't appointed till 1977.

In 1970 Srila Prabhupada was still giving the final approval on most initiations.

Purity is the essence in the practice of sadhana bhatki.

 

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had a very large mission with temples and devotees all over the world and to spread his mission he authorized some people to act as ritviks to carry out the formalities of the diksa (initiation) process.

 

But what about situations where the ritvik was found to be engaged in sinful activities? Some devotees who were initiated via the ritvik process via people such as Kirtanananda felt that they had not received the pure connection they were seeking. They felt disheartened because the ritvik was found to be a sinner.

 

In the case of Srilekha devi dasi, who was initiated in Toronto in 1970 (she is one of my wife's best friends), she felt she had not gotten diksa because she got it through a fallen soul. So she asked Srila Sridhar Maharaj for "re-initiation" and he gave it to her.

 

Purity is the essence. Sincerity is everything. If the ritvik is useless, a person will feel this sort of emtiness in their heart and feel the need to find a pure Guru.

 

- Muralidhar das

There was another Srilekha Devi Dasi initiated in Australia in 1975.

Maybe she didn't like being one of two Srilekhas?

You don't get "ritvik diksha" through someone.

You get diksha directly from Srila Prabhupada and hear the mantras from the tape of Srila Prabhupada.

Ritviks don't give diksha.

They officiate over ceremonies where Srila Prabhupada gives diksha.

Srila Prabhupada is the guru in a ritvik initiation.

The ritviks only approved the initiation on behalf of Srila Prabhupada.

Most "ritvik intiations" were not even performed by "ritviks".

In many cases the temple president or the GBC man performed the ceremony.

The "ritviks" of ISKCON were simply the men that Srila Prabhupada authorized to give final sanction to ISKCON initiations.

They didn't give the initiation.

The initiation didn't go through them.

The initiation came directly from Srila Prabhupada and the disciple heard the gayatri mantras from the tape of Srila Prabhupada not from the "ritvik".

So, if she couldn't understand that, then she shouldn't have asked for the initiation to begin with.

Nobody twisted her arm to take ritvik initiation.

There are several disciples of Sridhar Maharaja who fell down.

Does that mean they felt "empty" and unsatisfied?

Formal diska doesn't change anything on our inside.

It is an external social event.

Real initiation is about creating faith in someone as Srila Prabhupada did though his books and lectures.

I actually worked for the City of Alachua for a few years.

I designed the playground at the central city park in downtown Alachua.