premananda

http://web-image.at/babaji/

Attack and get attacked. GM started the whole fight with other Gaudiya Vaishnavas, authentic Vaishnavas with an authentic parampara. Now the newer GM devotees get very stirred up by a few guys who happen to know the truth. This evidently feels very uncomfortable and annoying. Could it be that it is FEAR of the TRUTH? It is kinda frightening when somebody tells you what you probably know in your heart, that the Gaudiya Math is in fact not part of the Gaudiya Vaishnava lineage. It is a "protestant" movement in the Gaudiya Vaishnava "catholic" world, without an "apostolic succession". Therefore none of the initiations given in GM/ISKCON are valid. The mantras given are fruitless, without spiritual potency, due to not coming via a disciplic succession. If you think this is an attack you are gravely mistaken. You should thank me instead, for telling you the truth so you can become a Gaudiya Vaishnava first of all. The first step in this direction is to receive mantra diksha from a true Guru, who always comes in a guruparampara which is documented since the time of Sri Caitanya Deva. The Gaudiya Vaishnava Guru will inform you about the external and internal aspects of the diksa guruparampara, including his own spiritual personality. It´s not like in ISKCON, "Well, I don´t know who I am, nor do I know who my guru is. But hey, don´t worry, I am sure you will find out some day." It´s not a guessing game. When you receive diksa you also receive knowledge about the guru pranali. The names, services, etc., they have in Gaura-lila as well as in Krishna-lila. This is the true Gaudiya method. Sundarananda Vidyavinod and Ananta Vasudeva Prabhu found out these things and immediately left the whole GM institution, despite having very high positions in the movement. Worldy name and fame means nothing in comparison to the spiritual wealth. PD [This message has been edited by premananda (edited 05-15-2001).]

You are just one of those gullible persons who believe anything you´re being told by your non-parampara GM "gurus". Have you ever considered that GM is a fountain of gossip and slander? I have associated plenty with those persons, I know what I am talking about. GM is not nice! PD

I look forward to reading some of his pastimes Jijaji, my old pal! PD

"If someone were to tell me that Nitai was Radha and Gaura was Krishna, I would have to disagree personally; just as I would have to disagree personally if they told me I souldn't chant the Mahamantra out loud." And who is telling you that Sri Nityananda is Sri Radha? Not Sri Radharamancaran das Baba, that´s for sure! But how can you say that Sri Gaura is not Sri Krishna. What about Sri Krishna Caitanya? The verse says, "Worship Nitai and Gaur". Nothing wrong with that, right? Then it says "perform Hare Krishna, Hare Rama japa" (maha-mantra). According to the Gaudiya lineage one should first approach Sri Nityananda, then Sri Gaura. His Lila will reveal Radha-Krishna-lila. This is the meaning. "Nothing wrong with them thinking like that (free universe and all), but I, personally, would disagree with them." If you disagree with what I have explained, then what are you?

:-P [This message has been edited by premananda (edited 05-27-2001).]

"As so often happens, my post was misconstrued and tossed back in my face." That sounds very familiar! "Allow me to attempt clarification, though why I don't know. First, I do not aspire to be anything, in this or any world, other than Radhika's for which I am depending solely on Her grace (see previous post on another thread). Second, I meant one particular babaji appearing as the next guru/acharya in line within the parampara, also by Her grace. As for my appearing fallen, you'd have to see for yourself. The `illusion` is so close to perfect that it even fools me!" Since they claim to have a siksa-parampara independent of diksa-connection, why not put for example Sri Ananta das Babaji as the head of ISKCON? That would rule! P D

That would be cool. Although he would have to become initiated by a Babaji. But to receive babaji-vesa he would have to become properly initiated to begin with. P D

:-P [This message has been edited by premananda (edited 05-27-2001).]

According to your translations anything is possible! What I am trying to say here is that you should show more respect for persons like Sri Radharamancharan das Babaji, even though his group differs from the majority of Gaudiyas. PD

http://www.vnn.org/editorials/980526-1826/index.html And another. Jaya Radhe!

http://www.vnn.org/world/9806/08-1853/index.html Here is an old article of mine, which applies to this thread. P D

First you sounded very convincing, but then I asked myself this question: "How come that Sri Jiva Gosvami defines what diksa is while describing the necessity of receiving Vaishnava-mantras from a true Guru?" This basic principle, mantra-diksha, is the very basis of all siksa. Therefore one cannot say that it´s OK to only receive siksa. There is no real siksa without diksa, because diksa is the entrance to and the foundation of siksa, the teachings, divine knowledge. The examples of Sri Ramanuja and Yamunacharya are most likely not applicable in our cases. We can not dismiss the necessity of diksa by saying that those great saints did not receive it. "Thus they see a lack of a ceremony as indicating there was no diksha, or no transference of divya-jnanam." There is no real transference of divyam jnanam if the disciple has not received actual initiation, mantra diksha. Divyam jnanam in the context of the writings of Sri Jiva Gosvami is defined as follows. That divine knowledge is divided into two parts, knowledge about the Lord (which includes mantras that describe Him) and knowledge about the sadhaka´s specific relationship with the Lord. P D

While reading the above a siddhanta came to mind. From what I understand the essence of diksa is siksa, or receiving transcendental knowledge. Diksa-parampara doesn´t mean a succession of bodies in which 'dead mantras' are received, as Sridhar Maharaj put it once. Diksa means that divine knowledge, divyam jnanam is given to the disciple by the Guru. That divine knowledge is divided into two parts, knowledge about the Lord (which includes mantras that describe Him) and knowledge about the sadhaka´s specific relationship with the Lord (siddhapranali). Diksa-parampara is the line through which this divine knowledge is passed down. Therefore it is artificial to make a separate 'Siksa-parampara'. Diksa-parampara by definition includes Siksa-parampara, but the opposite may not be true. PD

:-P [This message has been edited by premananda (edited 05-27-2001).]

:-P [This message has been edited by premananda (edited 05-27-2001).]

:-P [This message has been edited by premananda (edited 05-27-2001).]

That is only speculation.

You would disagree? Then you also disagree with Sriman Mahaprabhu, who specifically said that the Maha-mantra is for japa. You can find that verse in Sri Caitanya Bhagavata. (I don´t know where exactly, perhaps Jagat may assist?) Mahaprabhu and His associates chanted many songs while performing sankirtan, but it is not mentioned that they sang the maha-mantra.

:-P [This message has been edited by premananda (edited 05-27-2001).]

I think you are right Jagat Ji. The GM devotees seem to insist that aspiring vaishnavas receive mantras from the GM gurus and not other Gaudiyas. That seems sectarian to me. So they have created what they accused the "caste-gosvamis" of - a diksha monopoly.

That article is great!

"Dharma Talk"?

Just worship Nitai Gaur and Radhe Shyam. And chant "Hare Krishna Hare Ram" Nothing wrong with that! But everybody does not like, they just wanna criticize. A Babaji saint had a dream in which Sriman Mahaprabhu said these words. So he wanted to repeat them cause he loved Mahaprabhu so much. Another saintly person, Sriman Vimala-prasad Thakur, said he got initiated in a dream, and his followers say he is bona fide. But the Babaji´s dream was false? Who can decide? PD

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