oh, Bama - Page 4

krsna · 07-30-2008, 11:52 PM

"fools electing the biggest fools to lead them straight to hell."

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahak

vote for one who loves his enemies as much as he loves himself and who loves God with all parts of his being. Vote for one who may go to war, but does so without hatred, envy, self motivated desire. Vote for one who has the ability to control not anger, but the actions of anger.

...

Study nectar of devotion and see who possesses the most characteristics of the Vaisbnava.

Then dont vote.

... but Prabhupada insists that western democracy is "fools electing the biggest fools to lead them straight to hell". Believe it or not, thats what he said to me personally.

mahak

krsna · 07-31-2008, 12:14 AM

Obama is Not Evil

BY: MARK PTULNEY

Jul 30, USA (SUN) — It really is appalling that so many people who proclaim "I am a devotee of Krishna" think that the political ideology of America's Republican Party is somehow connected to Krishna and Bhakti.

In his recent article, "The Charlatan Obama", Syamakunda dasa opposes Barack Obama. He sees Obama as a politician who is pro-abortion, left-wing, anti-intelligent design, pro-homosexual, pro-Big-Government, etc.

Lets think about this, then. And let's consider also whether the promotion of "American Republicanism" is ever going to be helpful for the promotion of Krishna Bhakti in this world. Maybe we shouldn't support Obama but should we support the Republicans?

The Republican base claims to support the principle of "right to life". But when the Republican controlled American armed forces invaded Iraq to get control of Iraq's oil they didn't show much respect for the right to life of Iraq's citizens. Women and children and men living in their own homeland were killed in tens of thousands.

The war the American forces waged from the sky was like the merciless fighting of "un-kshatriya-like" fighters in the Israelite armies that invaded Palestine long ago, when the invaders exterminated its residents, killing babies, mothers and men - everyone. Even the cows and goats (1 Samuel 15:2-3). Estimates of the number of people killed in this pointless war in Iraq do vary greatly. But let's just agree that a lot of innocent people have been killed by the Christian-led invaders that have waged a futile war on the false premise that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Why hasn't Bush been imprisoned for sending his army into a war on the basis of false "intelligence" and lies? Mr. Syamakunda, please answer that question if you will.

This war America is losing or has lost has been a disaster for nearly everyone involved. Except of course the oil companies, the American weapons manufacturers, and Al Queda and its leader, the reclusive Bin Laden. Bin Laden is living a quiet life these days. But we may think he is enjoying his life immensely. All the things he wanted to achieve in life are being gradually achieved, day by day. After Bin Laden finished his previous American sponsored business fighting the godless Russians in Afghanistan, he began his next project called Al Queda. This Al Queda really prospered! It is like an American multi-level franchise business - especially in Iraq. This venture has become a focal point for Muslims opposed to what many Muslims see as the "invader crusaders", the foreigners who are plundering the wealth of their lands. Indeed, it needs to be pointed out that the President of Iraq approves of Obama's withdrawal timetable! Even the puppets and stooges are looking ahead to the time when the Americans withdraw - they want the Americans out of their country.

Left-wing is bad? Maybe. But is right-wing good? Bush's big oil connections and Cheney's military industry cronies have made millions since the war began. Meanwhile the little people are paying more of their money every time they go to the gas station. To deny that the war against Islamists is the cause of high fuel prices is simply stupid. Bush was/is an oilman and he went after more oil. You are stupid if you don't recognize that fact.

Freedom? Does America promote freedom of thought and freedom of religion? Numerous court cases are running right now, where men and women in uniform are saying the US Army is controlled by Evangelical Christians who are believers in the doomsday philosophy of Armageddon. Many people are concerned that the US armed forces are a danger to true democracy.

What is more, if a few individuals in American uniforms in Iraq are telling people about Krishna is that really the sort of preaching that Nityananda Prabhu and Mahaprabhu would approve of? Read the Caitanya Caritamrta to see what Sri Caitanya felt about Islam. It is very clear. Don't fight Islam. Be humble, tolerant, offer respects to others. This is Sri Caitanya's teachings.

It is dishonest and deceptive to say that the Gaudiya Vaisnava Acaryas support any sort of militarism. The armies of radical Islamism have already done their worst work in India hundreds of years ago (yes the Islamists are evil, demonic!).

But India and Vaisnavism survived. Nothing can kill the soul of pure religion, for the soul is everlasting and immortal. When Kamsa's demons are roaming about they are not killed by the devotees - God kills all the sinners who persecute his devotees. And by the way, contrary to the popular belief that the "kshatriya mentality" is a mindset that is somehow included in the "Bhakti religion", if we read Caitanya Caritamrta and the discussion of Sri Caitanya with Ramananda Raya we see that Sri Caitanya himself said that devotees need to leave all the varna-ashrama mentalities behind and become REAL DEVOTEES. Materialistic people who enjoy power, playing with weapons and obedience to "Caeser" or Mammon may think they are devotees but real Bhakti is something that a gun lover remains totally unconscious of.

Intelligent design? For the benefit of Iskcon devotees and related groups of individuals who think this Intelligent Design theory is somehow related to Vaisnavism, may I point out that most Vaisnavas in the world today do not believe in Intelligent Design. Indeed most Vaisnavas in the world today are Srivaisnavas and according to the greatest Srivaisnava Acarya, Sri Ramanuja Acarya, who is most certainly a Vaisnava and an Acarya (not an atheist), it is useless to try and argue with materialists and proclaim "God Exists", using logic or science or "physical evidence" or Intelligent Design theories. Ramanuja stated that even if it were possible to prove a god had created the universe, it is also possible that there are other universes created by other gods. Indeed the Srimad Bhagavatam says that there are many universes created by many gods (brahmas) and not all of these "universe creator gods" are actually favourable and devoted to Krishna.

Thakura Bhaktivinode prayed, "kita-janma hau jatha tuwa dasa, bahir-mukha brahma janme nahi asa", i.e. "I want to be born as a worm in the home of a bhakta, rather than be born as a Brahma looking outwards at the world he has made". Is my point clear? The creator is an instrument of God and the creator of a universe may not necessarily be a totally divine person.

Obama has spoken about religion, and expressed his view of the Christian tradition, a tradition that is the base ideology of American society. Americans in general believe in a Creator God and follow along in the Judeo/Christian tradition. But this tradition is far from divine. It is a much lower layer of spirituality than the religion of pure love that Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught. In many ways, it will be good if deep thinking people challenge the basic assumptions of Judeo/Christian beliefs. Those ancient beliefs are in many ways opposed to the teachings of the Vedas, and Sri Caitanya.

Let us consider Barack Obama. Barack Obama asked, which passages of scripture should guide American public policy? Obama asked, "Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is an abomination? Or we could go with Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount?"

Obama also said, Jesus' Sermon on the Mount was "a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our Defense Department would survive its application."

I myself think Jesus was right when he said, "Blessed are the peacemakers". But will America's people and its leaders at the Defense Department ever be able to accommodate the radicalism Obama is promoting?

God only knows!

In conclusion:

1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.
2 Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Samia · 07-31-2008, 01:03 AM

"Prabhupada insists that western democracy is "fools electing the bigest fools to lead them straight to hell". Believe it or not, thats what he said to me personally."

I don`t see either one of them being any good. For me though I would rather have someone in office that can be balanced out by the other elected officials and for me the evil of two lessers leaves me with McCain. I may not agree with most of his Ideas but to me at least he seems humble. Obamas most noteable characteristic is decepton and a sense of entitlement, it is not about anything other than him. My prediction though is by the time of the convention the Clintons will pull something off and we will be seeing Hillary getting the nomination, there have already been little blips about superdelegates switching and well at the rate Obama throws people under the bus he may not even have a campain staff within weeks.

Kulapavana · 07-31-2008, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krsna

"fools electing the biggest fools to lead them straight to hell."

I doubt that the management system Prabhupada introduced in Iskcon was any better in practice. Authocratic, top down management is far easier to manipulate and abuse by crafty and crooked individuals than democracy - and Iskcon's history is a proof of that. Those who can't properly manage their own affairs should not expect others to take seriously their advice on management of the state.

Kulapavana · 07-31-2008, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samia

for me the evil of two lessers leaves me with McCain. I may not agree with most of his Ideas but to me at least he seems humble.

Both are crooks, liars, and special interest stooges. McCain means more war, more money wasted on the stupid wars his bosses support, more deficit, more unbalanced trade. Pick your poison or vote third party.

krsna · 07-31-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kulapavana

I doubt that the management system Prabhupada introduced in Iskcon was any better in practice. Authocratic, top down management is far easier to manipulate and abuse by crafty and crooked individuals than democracy - and Iskcon's history is a proof of that. Those who can't properly manage their own affairs should not expect others to take seriously their advice on management of the state.

sri visnu

Kulapavana · 07-31-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krsna

sri visnu

the truth hurts sometimes

very often people don't take us seriously because we propose 'solutions' that don't work even for us, let alone the society in general, while we refuse to face the facts. Pradhupada was a pragmatic person - he would adjust things to make them work, even if it meant reversing himself on an issue. We should learn from our mistakes, not close our eyes to them.

krsna · 07-31-2008, 11:58 AM

There was an article that posted to the Sampradaya Sun earlier this past week admonishing devotees for siding with the Republican party in America. I couldn’t agree more with that.

How some devotees support ideas like intelligent design is mind-boggling. We clearly do not believe the same thing that Christians do when it comes to creation. The only similarity is that they are both God-centered. The Christian believe is that the world was created in six literal days and that the earth has only been around for 8,000ish years, barely longer than our Kali-yuga. Yet some devotees side with them due to the dangerous philosophy of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
However, the article in question is a thinly veiled defense of Barack Obama. Previously, a devotee published an article ripping apart Obama for his unvaisnava qualities. Rightly so, I suspect, since Obama isn’t a vaisnava.

But this most recent article, while claiming the left wing (democrats, etc) to be “bad,” actually defends Obama. He references Obama stating that Christ’s Sermon on the Mount should guide American policy.

Now, I’m a rather large fan of the Sermon on the Mount. You know, “blessed are the peacemakers, meek, etc.” And while it’s definitely a good idea to use these principles to manage your life, there is certainly no way in hell that America (or any other government, for that matter) would use them to guide policy. And if you believe that, you are being duped in some pretty nasty ways.

I’m very sick of devotees following the Republican party. But I’m equally sick of devotees following the Democrats (possibly more sick, to be honest).

In Aprilish, a devotee blogger even compared Obama to Brahma. Yeah, Lord Brahma. There were other postings gushing about how super awesome Obama was and how Krishna is blessing us with him. Someone certainly drank the Kool-Aide on this one.

He was the same devotee who gave the Obama “Hope” poster vaisnava tilaka, marking Obama as a devotee of Lord Caitanya. It is hard for me to think of something more lame than that. I’ve tried, not possible.

So will someone please tell me why so many devotees find it necessary to affiliate themselves as members of some political party? Aren’t we supposed to be above that? And fine, if you want to be a democrat or a republican and vote for “the lesser of two evils,” go for it. But why in all that is holy do you try to co-opt them and “make” them part of Krishna consciousness? Seriously, cut it out.

We are devotees. We are above this. Governments in Kali-yuga are corrupt through and through. However, the Bush administration was no more corrupt than Clinton or Grant (back in the 1870’s) or George Washington’s for that matter.

The government is made up of cheaters. The followers of either party are the cheated. We are devotees, followers of Lord Caitanya. We are not the cheaters, nor are we the cheated. We have a higher purpose.
Even our Srila Prabhupada has said, “This democracy is a demon-crazy. It has no value. It is simply waste of time and effort and no feeling, demon-crazy.” He said this many times in reference to American democracy. So why should we support it?

And so, dear vaisnavas, how about we stop wasting time supporting this demon-crazy government, or any government, and start focusing on spirituality, ok? Srila Prabhupada has given us everything we philosophically need. Why would we want to support some politician whose views cannot possibly be our own? Why settle for the “lesser of two evils” when we have Krishna consciousness? Through this we can help society, spiritually and materially, much more than lofty and soon-to-be-broken campaign promises.

Revatinandana: The symbol of the Democrat party in America is the ass.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Because they are asses.
- Room Conversation — December 13, 1970, Indore

by eric at July 31, 2008 01:07 PM

mahak · 08-19-2008, 05:39 PM

Because when asked what his favorite verse from the bible was, he destroyed the false christians with the sword Of Lord Jesus Christ, saying, "As ye treat the least among is how you treat me".

They say he lost the debate there in orange county, but even Jesus Himself would not vote with those he prophesized "In the future, there will be those who, in My name, will heal and baptize, but I will say to them, get away from me, I know you not, for you have failed to do the will of He who has sent Me."

The christians are not what one thinks, because they fail to follow the great commandment, they love so many things above the Lord, like country, political party, home, community, race, church, and they hate their neighbors above all else.

They hate O bama because he is pro choice and hate him for having heard from Farakkhan, yet there is no one on earth more piously anti-abortion than Louis X.

So, the real Christ followers should analyze the reality of Lord Jesus' teachings before aligning themselves with the so called christians that are engaged in active genocide because they want rapture and armageddon. I got news for them, gospel. Armageddon was in 79 AD, the fall of Jerusalem, as he predicted would happen even while his DIRECT disciples were still alive. All other armageddonist philosophy is bogus and anti-christian. Total irrelisious political concoction used to control stupid people.

But, alas, O bama is thru, he peaked too early, he may not even survive the clintons, the true abortionists.

mahaksadasa

AncientMariner · 08-19-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahak

Because when asked what his favorite verse from the bible was, he destroyed the false christians with the sword Of Lord Jesus Christ, saying, "As ye treat the least among is how you treat me".

They say he lost the debate there in orange county, but even Jesus Himself would not vote with those he prophesized "In the future, there will be those who, in My name, will heal and baptize, but I will say to them, get away from me, I know you not, for you have failed to do the will of He who has sent Me."

The christians are not what one thinks, because they fail to follow the great commandment, they love so many things above the Lord, like country, political party, home, community, race, church, and they hate their neighbors above all else.

They hate O bama because he is pro choice and hate him for having heard from Farakkhan, yet there is no one on earth more piously anti-abortion than Louis X.

So, the real Christ followers should analyze the reality of Lord Jesus' teachings before aligning themselves with the so called christians that are engaged in active genocide because they want rapture and armageddon. I got news for them, gospel. Armageddon was in 79 AD, the fall of Jerusalem, as he predicted would happen even while his DIRECT disciples were still alive. All other armageddonist philosophy is bogus and anti-christian. Total irrelisious political concoction used to control stupid people.

But, alas, O bama is thru, he peaked too early, he may not even survive the clintons, the true abortionists.

mahaksadasa

Obama could win if he would tranform himself into a conservative in my opinion. He has been dragged down by a lot of his past associations with radical socialistic African American leaders that hear voices from UFOs telling them that white people are the cause of all suffering in the world and stuff. He should distance himself from all that and portray himself as a conservative Muslim man who transcends racial divides looking to unite Islam and Christianity because they are essentially very similar religions.

Obama does seem to me to be more genuine than the Clintons but who knows for sure. I was rooting for him to beat Hillary all along but I got sick of him after I saw how the media turned everything into the Barrack Obama personality cult. That kind of stuff is just bizarre.

Either way, politics for me anymore is cheap entertainment and I do not believe for one second that I have any ability to influence any change on the political landscape despite all the admonitions of those who say you should vote and all that. The whole game is manipulated just like wall street as far as I am concerned so I just view it all as a reality television show. So I sit looking on basically as an obnoxious heckler from the cheap seats making fun of everyone every chance I get just for the pure unadultered cheap entertainment of it.

The ultimate game changer is going to be the Kalki-avatar I guess. After that I guess you can begin to take politics seriously again but unless Obama is some sort of avatar and that proves out with the passage of time I have to assume he is just another byproduct of the radical socialistic tendencies of leftist African American religous and political leaders. Muhammad Ali hung out with some of the same type of goof balls and he ended up transcending race and religion and is an exalted personality in my books so there is some hope for Obama but he needs to get his act together and do it quickly.

mahak · 08-20-2008, 03:06 PM

Muhammed ali hung with malcolm x, was not all that involved with elijah muhammed. Farakkhan was louis x, and he may have been the one who had malcolm x assassinated, because malcolm x rebelled against the racist philosophy of elijah muhammed. Old news, but I sure hope you arent calling malcolm x a goof ball, because he, even more than MLK, had the answers. I suggest you read his autobiography by alex haley, or even see the movie starring denzell washington.

Religion is the worst thing about american politics because the kind of religion espoused is not that which srila prabhupada defines as real religion, surrender to the Supreme Person. The religion of american politics is that which Krsna tells arjuna to abandon all varieties of.

Just like abortion. Why is this dead issue that which defines one who wishes to be president? No one running has performed one, no one running has had one (except maybe hillary, and bill probably paid for a few). Its like the gun issue. Most think the GOP is all for gun rights, when in actuality, the GOP will be the first to cause all to give them up.

You are right AM, though, politics is merely entertainment.

Hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

suchandra · 08-21-2008, 10:47 AM

Since people think Barack Obama will be the next president some relatives can't wait any longer and pipe up.

Barack Obama's 'lost' brother found in Kenya

Nick Pisa � Telegraph.co.uk August 20, 2008

The Italian edition of Vanity Fair said that it had found George Hussein Onyango Obama living in a hut in a ramshackle town of Huruma on the outskirts of Nairobi.

Mr Obama (left), 26, the youngest of the presidential candidate's half-brothers, spoke for the first time about his life, which could not be more different than that of the Democratic contender.

"No-one knows who I am," he told the magazine, before claiming: "I live here on less than a dollar a month."

According to Italy's Vanity Fair his two metre by three metre shack is decorated with football posters of the Italian football giants AC Milan and Inter, as well as a calendar showing exotic beaches of the world.

Vanity Fair also noted that he had a front page newspaper picture of his famous brother - born of the same father as him, Barack Hussein Obama, but to a different mother, named only as Jael.

He told the magazine: "I live like a recluse, no-one knows I exist."

Embarrassed by his penury, he said that he does not does not mention his famous half-brother in conversation.

"If anyone says something about my surname, I say we are not related. I am ashamed," he said.

For ten years George Obama lived rough. However he now hopes to try to sort his life out by starting a course at a local technical college.

He has only met his famous older brother twice - once when he was just five and the last time in 2006 when Senator Obama was on a tour of East Africa and visited Nairobi.

The Illinois senator mentions his brother in his autobiography, describing him in just one passing paragraph as a "beautiful boy with a rounded head".

Of their second meeting, George Obama said: "It was very brief, we spoke for just a few minutes. It was like meeting a complete stranger."

George added he was no longer in contact with his mother and said:"I have had to learn to live and take what I need.

"Huruma is a tough place, last January during the elections there was rioting and six people were hacked to death. The police don't even arrest you they just shoot you.

"I have seen two of my friends killed. I have scars from defending myself with my fists. I am good with my fists."
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html

Samia · 08-21-2008, 01:03 PM

Kind of telling that he enjoys his wealth while his extended family suffers. So much for a man of compassion huh.