BBC: "Encounter With An ISKCON Guru"

suchandra · 03-07-2008, 03:07 AM

Louis Theroux's Encounter with a Guru

Fri, 07/03/2008 - 4:02pm — "This guy Louis Theroux from the BBC does these cheeky documentaries. In this one he goes to Mayapur and meets Jayapataka Swami. He manges to have some fun without being completely offensive":
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vp_NbI8Gdio

(They've disabled embedding so you'll have to follow the link above.)

krishnadasa · 03-07-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suchandra

Louis Theroux's Encounter with a Guru

Fri, 07/03/2008 - 4:02pm — "This guy Louis Theroux from the BBC does these cheeky documentaries. In this one he goes to Mayapur and meets Jayapataka Swami. He manges to have some fun without being completely offensive":
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vp_NbI8Gdio

(They've disabled embedding so you'll have to follow the link above.)

Matter of fact, he was offensive there

suchandra · 03-07-2008, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krishnadasa

Matter of fact, he was offensive there

sriman Ekendra prabhu

Thanks Krishnadas for dropping a comment - it is no one else but famous Sri Sriman Ekendra prabhu, editor of dandavats.com, who wrote, "fun without being completely offensive".
HG Ekendra prabhu's blog:
http://www.gopala.org/node/193

son_of_erin2000 · 03-07-2008, 09:57 AM

hilariouse, like the part where he says how he can get used to it

)

suchandra · 03-07-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by son_of_erin2000

hilariouse, like the part where he says how he can get used to it

)

Yes, it's hard, even someone becomes a jnani impersonalists, below it says, it will take many, many births to come to the level of understanding the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna.

Beggar · 03-07-2008, 11:30 AM

Perhaps if Jayapataka Maharaja would have waited until he was in a mature stage to take disciples, things would be seen in a different way. You have to remember that he began taking disciples at the age of 29 in 1978 under what now seems rather spurious circumstances. Compare this to most of the sannyasis in the GM derived maths who did not take disciples until they were in their 60s or 70s and after 40 or 50 years of practicing life. I think if the interviewer from the BBC had met one of them, he would have naturally had a more respectful attitude.

suchandra · 03-08-2008, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beggar

Perhaps if Jayapataka Maharaja would have waited until he was in a mature stage to take disciples, things would be seen in a different way. You have to remember that he began taking disciples at the age of 29 in 1978 under what now seems rather spurious circumstances. Compare this to most of the sannyasis in the GM derived maths who did not take disciples until they were in their 60s or 70s and after 40 or 50 years of practicing life. I think if the interviewer from the BBC had met one of them, he would have naturally had a more respectful attitude.

Yes, when Prabhupada would have come as a young man to NY things would have been totally different, people may have been not so respectful, etc. Young gurus don't seem to work. Yesterday was a broadcast about the sadhus of Hrishikesh, they had passports saying 128, 140 years old. And people treated them really respectful.

Quote:

Milla: I am not embarrassed in any way, but I am selective when it comes to tell people about it. Yes, ISKCON is a cult, but most people's idea of a cult is so off the wall that most can't understand my experience unless I spent hours explaining it, and this happens only with close friends.

I was quite open about my ISKCON experience until I talked to an acquaintance (the new girlfriend of a relative) about it. She was so genuinely sorry about how I got cheated by life and started asking all those sympathetic questions in the mood of "Oh, you poor loser" that I was startled. She was divorced and on disability benefits, with four teenagers three of whom had a severe form of ADHD, and she herself was going blind because of an incurable hereditary eye disease -- and still she thought that she should feel sorry for me because of my association with ISKCON. After that I became more careful what I say and to whom.

BABU: The dark pit that is iskcon... even the blind feel sorry for us.....

This is the result of worship of young, inexperienced gurus.

Beggar · 03-08-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suchandra

This is the result of worship of young, inexperienced gurus.

But now many of them (the first and second wave of ISKCON gurus) are no longer young, being in their late 50s and early 60s. Some like like K-Swami and SDG are 70 or close. But the well was poisoned, so to speak when they began taking disciples at an immature stage. Even if he is somewhat sincere an ISKCON Western, "rock star" guru appears to the public like a glorified used car salesman. To make matters worse this "rock star" style is now an ingrained tradition, just calling gurus, rtvik gurus and not regular gurus might help a little but not that much.

theist · 03-08-2008, 11:57 AM

Nice little clip. I thought Jayapataka Swami came off really well as a down to earth chap and handle the situation really well. No pompousity. I would have liked to have seen the whole piece.

I have never been around Jayapataka Swmai. Is that his usual demeanor? Seemed approachable and nice or was that just for the camera?

His disciples seemed pleasant and happy as well.

I kinda expected a mocking of the Hare Krsna's and an attempt to make them look foolish but there was none of that in what I saw.

Beggar · 03-08-2008, 12:15 PM

If you remember, the BBC narrator/interviewer said, "it's been 23 years since the death of Prabhupada". This means that this video is from '00 or '01, 7 years ago. Even if one was a university professor studying ISKCON and Gaudiya Vaisnavism they would conclude that most Western, ISKCON gurus have no idea of the internal moods of the previous acaryas. Without these moods there is no possibility of real humility on the spiritual platform. But there can be an attempt to appear "down to earth". I thought that was the problem that we are shackled "down to earth"? Maybe it's better to go to Mayapura and grovel before Jayapataka Swami than be an ordinary materialistic person. But there will always be those who want more and that has caused quite a problem within ISKCON.

theist · 03-08-2008, 12:55 PM

Prabhupada was also what I would call down to earth. I use the term to mean non-pretentious and approachable. Krsna's representative taking a small room in the bowery of New York city. "Down Home Swami". Like that. That is how he came off in the clip which is all I was speaking to.

We should be able to say something positive about someone withut the need to throw some dirt at the same time. I'm no fan of the Iskcon system but these people are not satans incarnate either Beggar. C'mon now.

suchandra · 03-08-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theist

Prabhupada was also what I would call down to earth. I use the term to mean non-pretentious and approachable. Krsna's representative taking a small room in the bowery of New York city. "Down Home Swami". Like that. That is how he came off in the clip which is all I was speaking to.

We should be able to say something positive about someone withut the need to throw some dirt at the same time. I'm no fan of the Iskcon system but these people are not satans incarnate either Beggar. C'mon now.

Well spoken Theist prabhu. Only problem, even if you want to join like two of my godbrothers, they don't take you. They say you should live near a temple and visit as a guest but not that you can live within ISKCON. This is yesteryear. ISKCON might take you when you work with a contract and getting paid. Also see, " I am becoming increasingly concerned that more and more people I talk to are simply at the temple because they are being paid." (Bh. David Haslam)

gHari · 03-08-2008, 04:41 PM

I think the down-to-earth attitude comes when one actually sees that everyone is serving Krsna (according to their present situation). Krsna's mercy is everywhere - even karma is His mercy. Tamo is moving to rajo, and rajo is moving to sattva, and sattva is becoming transcendental. It's all good - a wonderful world.

But it takes a while for that perspective.

theist · 03-08-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suchandra

Well spoken Theist prabhu. Only problem, even if you want to join like two of my godbrothers, they don't take you. They say you should live near a temple and visit as a guest but not that you can live within ISKCON. This is yesteryear. ISKCON might take you when you work with a contract and getting paid. Also see, " I am becoming increasingly concerned that more and more people I talk to are simply at the temple because they are being paid." (Bh. David Haslam)

Yeah but who wants to join Iskcon? I am aware of the problems there. They built a big church and now they can't avoid to heat it. But if I see a group of Iskcon devotees out chanting kirtan on the street I can appreciate that wonderful service without getting all worked up over these other things.

I see two mistaken positions on this subject and I understand them both because I have held both positions. There is the Iskcon can do no wrong, everyone in iskcon is a good devotee angle. And then there is there is Iskcon is all screwed up and everyone connected there is being duped and the gurus are all fakes etc. Undo attraction and unnecessary aversion. Both states of mind are states of material attachment.

Now I don't even want to think about iskcon as far as it's a non-factor in my life for the most part. If I see something good I try to acknowledge it as such and move on. If I see something negative I may comment but I have no need to dwell on it beyond that.

As far as this clip goes it was little light hearted thing that I thought showed the devotees in a good light. Nothing more or less.

theist · 03-08-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gHari

I think the down-to-earth attitude comes when one actually sees that everyone is serving Krsna (according to their present situation). Krsna's mercy is everywhere - even karma is His mercy. Tamo is moving to rajo, and rajo is moving to sattva, and sattva is becoming transcendental. It's all good - a wonderful world.

But it takes a while for that perspective.

Yeah. Advanced devotees actually see that Krishna's hand is everywhere and controlling everything and as you point out everyone is moving to His will.