[QUOTE=AnonyMouse]

As far as I can understand, there still needs to be some first cause, Prime Unmoved Mover (call it God or whatever) behind the constant change, even though the development of the universe would be seen as a never-ending cycle. There is no movement without a cause. There are no phenomena without a cause.

[QUOTE]

I suggest you read up on quantum mechanics. Quantum entaglement for example goes beyond the ideas of cause and effect.

To answer some previous questions, the universe will not become one black hole. Black holes radiate heat and eventually evaporate. So not even black holes last forever.

The inflationary model of the universe is rapidly being accepted by scientists rather than the big bang. As the inflationary model tries to explain the universe came from nothing and explains the big bang as well as other pieces of data which the big bang could not explain. It follows from the quantum idea of how particles can for short periods of time become real from the vacuum energy then dissapear back into the vacuum energy.

So if a quantum bubble appears out of the vacuum energy and inflates very quickly then a stable universe which includes a big bang as well as parralel universes can exist. The theory also explains other stuff which the big bang could not. Seeing is the inflationary theory explains what the big bang could and a lot more its probably going to be the next accepted theory. However, more experimental evidence would be required.

[Tarun]

But "Shebang Sheboom" did begin Rock n Roll.
"Time is on My Side" can only b sung by a bhakta.
Rolling Stones don't qualify, although Mick was chanting one round daily back in 1969.
visnur mahAn sa eva yasya kalA-viseso
Govindam adipurusam tam aham bhajAmi
Catur-mukha Lord BrahmA knows when time began, as does his son Lord Sivaji.
Everything is personal, specially Time (Gita 11.32)

[ganesh_g81]

Very nice thread.

[xexon]

Time?

Like there is such a thing.

Time, along with everything else inside this bubble of creation, is illusion. It is as real as you wish it to be as you dream this world around you.

When you wake up, time becomes meaningless.


x

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

Big bang is no longer the predominant cosmological theory, and as such this debate doesn't really rest on solid grounds. Try superstring theory and you're closer to what has prevalence these days.

[indulekhadasi]

Originally Posted by xexon Time? Like there is such a thing. Time, along with everything else inside this bubble of creation, is illusion. It is as real as you wish it to be as you dream this world around you. When you wake up, time becomes meaningless. x

Krishna says that He is the all destructive Time.

[xexon]

And when you enter Krishna conciousness, you will see it for yourself.

Time only engages when you pay attention to this world. If you pay attention elsewhere, you are subject to a different timescale, and not the one of this world.

You can visit the city limits of this place when you sleep and dream. The timescale in the dream is different than the one here.

Ever lay down for a 10 minute nap, only to discover an hour has gone by? But you would swear it was only for a few minutes?

Awareness does not always pay attention to timescales. They are a mental creation and only have value on a material stage. The further you get away from the material world, the less time has a value.



x

[seamusjcarroll]

big bang inside paramatma show as prabnupada is pleased

[Taipan]

Expansion-Diversity-Consciousness
Brahma\Sarasvati/Vishnu
I sometimes think of the known universe as just another cell in Brahma's body.
Or a collaboration/\union between Brahma and Saraswati. One of their offspring if youlike.
1+1=3 Godhead+Consort+child=Family

[Taipan]

[quote=Avinash]I was very happy to read this. Often times I have read that big bang was the beginning of time and therefore we should not ask what happened before big bang, because there was no 'before'. But, it never seemed believable.

If the was nothing before the so called "Big Bang", then there was no creator.

Such foolishness!

Just another attempt by overly proud,resource hungry Godless clowns trying vainly to replace faith with psuedo-science & money.

[GODSEED]

SHREERÄDHÄKRSHNACHAITANYÄY NAMAH
SHREECHAITANYA MAHÄPRABHAVE NAMAH
SHREENIYTÄNANDA PRABHAVE NAMAH
SHREESHIVASHIVÄY NAMAH
JAY JAY SHREE ADVAITA ÄCHÄRYA
JAY JAY SHREEBHAKTA VRUNDA....

Often times read that big bang was the beginning of time and therefore we should not ask what happened before big bang, because there was no 'before'. According to two physicists (from Cambridge and Princeton universities), the current model of the universe is flawed

as a matter of fact, there has actually been no big bang at all!

while tryin'g to gauge age of (Four Headed Brahmäjee's) universe, foolish scientists miss one important logic presented by them only...age of black holes...

on one hand they say...age of blackholes cannot be determined (which is also false!), on the other hand, they proclaim to have found age of that universe, which has infinite such black holes...

this two arguments are opposite to eachother!

more on this issue and other issue regarding time and others can be read from book The True History and Religion of India here:

http://www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/48_the_exact_calculations.htm

http://www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/47_creation_of.htm


http://www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/49_actual_age.htm

http://www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/21_intriguing_questions.htm

actually, its only futile, not only for us, even for Lord Brahmäjee, to try to understand something which is beyond sense perception...its nothing smarter than act of a foolish child, trying to touch moon and in that pursuit, trying to climb to the roof top...this is the sum and substance of a scientist's phsyche and their foolish endeavors, wasting HIS time and energy! scientists are a little more rebellious and demoniac, nevertheless, though!

SHREENITÄIGAURAPREMÄNANDE....SHREENITÄIGAURAHARIBO L

[GODSEED]

Why do you think that Big Bang expansion is impossible? Big Bang expansion is said to have taken place approx 14 billion years ago. Universe is expanding at present. Then, why is it so difficult to believe that it was expanding 14 billion years ago?

[GODSEED]

Why do you think that Big Bang expansion is impossible? Big Bang expansion is said to have taken place approx 14 billion years ago. Universe is expanding at present. Then, why is it so difficult to believe that it was expanding 14 billion years ago?

i must say avinas, u r at a wrong place, may b u should, loitering around nasa corridors, your rebellious and doubting thomas mind wont let u settle in a peaceful Temple!

u seem to be a victim of the of neo-athiesm generation. who in the name of science, are only spreading athiesm...whether it is darvinian theory or this bogus big bang stuff.

i mean, u can simply mortage ur mind to some few so called scientist, who are inflicted with hunger, lust, desire to be famous etc., who have limited perception, who are fraught with athiesm and rebel towards ShreeKrshna, but u'd feel damned ashamed of having to accept the Pristine Vedic Teachings, which are incomparably higher than this figmentive propositions of foolish observationists!

sad indeed!

anyway u may read this article online....

http://www.internationalreporter.com...ead.php?id=973

i certainly dont endorse this article, but to a fool, one has to talk in a foolish language! may be u can see some ray of hope...

but a piece of advise, pls dont bother us with ur bogus beliefs, u might as well hang ur self among ur like minded athiests!


SHREENITÄIGAURAPREMÄNADE...SHREEGAURAHARIBOL

[GODSEED]

SHREERÄDHÄKRSHNACHAITANYÄY NAMAH
SHREECHAITANYA MAHÄPRABHAVE NAMAH
SHREENITYÄNADA PRABHAVE NAMAH
SHREESHIVASHIVÄY NAMAH
JAY JAY SHREEBHAKTA VRUNDA...

Originally Posted by suthra akshar, i see that your post is rubbish, Sun moon, all are demi gods as per hinduism. They Are Not Gods!.

aksar seems to be from svaminarayan sect, these guys consider their guru (user foto) to be a god!

SHREENITÄIGAURAPREMÄNANDE...SHREEGAURAHARIBOL!

[Avinash]

[quote=avinash]Why do you think that Big Bang expansion is impossible? Big Bang expansion is said to have taken place approx 14 billion years ago. Universe is expanding at present. Then, why is it so difficult to believe that it was expanding 14 billion years ago? [/avinash]

Originally Posted by GODSEED i must say avinas, u r at a wrong place, may b u should, loitering around nasa corridors, your rebellious and doubting thomas mind wont let u settle in a peaceful Temple!

Wow, great! Clap clap clap. Asking somebody a question means that I have rebellious, doubting thomas mind.

Originally Posted by GODSEED u seem to be a victim of the of neo-athiesm generation. who in the name of science, are only spreading athiesm...whether it is darvinian theory or this bogus big bang stuff.

This is your thinking that big bang is atheism, not mine. If God wishes, he can create the world in whatever way he likes - including big bang.
Even Darwinian theory is not really atheism. Atheism means "not believing in God." Darwinian theory may be contradictory to your religious belief, but it is not contradictory to theism in general.

Originally Posted by GODSEED i mean, u can simply mortage ur mind to some few so called scientist, who are inflicted with hunger, lust, desire to be famous etc., who have limited perception, who are fraught with athiesm and rebel towards ShreeKrshna,

According to you, being interested in Science means hunger, lust, desire to be famous and it also means limited perception. Go and learn get common sense.

Originally Posted by GODSEED but u'd feel damned ashamed of having to accept the Pristine Vedic Teachings, which are incomparably higher than this figmentive propositions of foolish observationists!

Belief in modern Science is limited perception for you but blind belief in Vedas means that you have a very broad perspective. Hypocrisy!

Originally Posted by GODSEED sad indeed!

Yes, it is sad that you do not have any common sense.

Originally Posted by GODSEED anyway u may read this article online.... http://www.internationalreporter.com...ead.php?id=973 i certainly dont endorse this article, but to a fool, one has to talk in a foolish language! may be u can see some ray of hope...

Anybody who does not agree with you is a fool.

Originally Posted by GODSEED but a piece of advise, pls dont bother us with ur bogus beliefs, u might as well hang ur self among ur like minded athiests!

Any belief, which is not the same as yours, is bogus. Nice definition!

If being theist means becoming like you i.e. losing one's way of thinking, becoming abusive and hypocrite, then I hate such kind of theism.

[GODSEED]

SHREERÄDHÄKRSHNACHAITANYÄY NAMAH
SHREECHAITANYA MAHÄPRABHAVE NAMAH
SHREENITYÄNANDA PRABHAVE NAMAH
SHREESHIVASHIVÄY NAMAH
JAY JAY SHREEBHAKTA VRUNDA...

thanks a lot, avinas!

i accepted that kinda reply,

asking somebody a question means that I have rebellious, doubting thomas mind

asking question is not athiesm but when u have access to the Asnwers, it certainly is!

According to you, being interested in Science means hunger, lust, desire to be famous and it also means limited perception. Go and learn get common sense.

i dont consider science as wrong, the adjectives used are for so called scientist, again u got this wrong!

.If God wishes, he can create the world in whatever way he likes - including big bang. Even Darwinian theory is not really atheism. Atheism means "not believing in God." Darwinian theory may be contradictory to your religious belief, but it is not contradictory to theism in general.

where ur logic of ShreeKrshna creating the world the way HE likes is acceptable...,

what u might not be aware of is ShreeKrshna Himself has revealed the actual process of Creation, in Shreemad Bhägavatam, and that is through Brahmäjee! not some vagrant cacophonic derivatives or sick formulae!

Atheism means "not believing in God.".

probably, u havnt gotten the definition of thiesm right,
if u at all sincerely believe in ShreeKrshna, why do u shirk to accept HIS teachings?
but as put, this is not athiesm, i think it is foolishness also!

darwinian theory may be contradictory to your religious belief, but it is not contradictory to theism in general

hieght of obsession! u guys are obsessed with anything imported, even foolishness!

darvinian theory is also against the Vedas! and illogical...theory, clearly bypasses the Brahmäjee's agency of copulation-linked mortal world, it says, us humans are modified apes!

but it might take some time for u to get this, i was actually more sinful than u, but with HIS grace, i accepted HIS Pristing teachings, and is saved!

belief in modern Science is limited perception for you but blind belief in Vedas means that you have a very broad perspective. hypocrisy

blind beliefs in Vedas is not possible, it is so very logical, that even blind believers get through to the Light!

u'd accept 'but' as bat and 'put' as poot, is that blind belief?
obsessed with imported things!

might as well watch matrix series (not for devotees, though), may have a hint as to what i mean by limited perception of not science but that of humans...

if being theist means becoming like you i.e. losing one's way of thinking, becoming abusive and hypocrite, then I hate such kind of theism.

well, u might abuse me of being a hypocrite, abusive, having lost way of thinking...its clear to be seen that who is abusive! and i certainly dont mind abusing the athiests...or rather agnostics

once more, we can fight out on place u decide, pls. dont spread ur godless virus on this sober, and thiestic discussion portal!

in the end, i'm sorry, for coming across u, u better carry on with ur ideas, as ur signature goes...get prepared for the worse

but i definitely warn u of not spreading such vagrant theories and beliefs, there upmteen other portals for such concoccted theories,

i think it is only hypocricy to claim to be thiest and not believe in ShreeKrshnaa's teachings and search for other theories.

not here, pls.

SHREERÄDHÄKRSHNACHAITANYÄY NAMAH

[Avinash]

So, according to you, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Bahais, Sikhs, Arya Samajis are atheists.

[ridler2012]

Big Bang is totally not the beginning... In that theory it should be the creation of those two rocks must be the beginning...

[Brahmanyan]

Interesting thread. But theories change with time. Our Vedic scholars tried to answer the question of creation and time. But they all changed with progress of civilization. Scientific theories also change with time. Time and space are concepts originating from mind (Chid-aakasam) Out side the World there is no time or space.

Brahmanyan.

[holkapolka-]

The big bang theory is a disgrace towards the creator as it symbolizes accident rather than well planned thinking. Those who state big bang, an explosion caused creation are very much into antisimplicity, these beengs combine fysiology with mathematics thereby denying the psychological elements of the creation.