God has to be understood not believed

barney · 02-18-2004, 04:17 AM

Lord is to be understood, not believed
The lord is not a matter for belief. He is a matter for understanding. This world is not a matter for belief because you perceive it. Therefore Lord is also not something to be believed, it is a challenge to understand him. If the Lord is in heaven, not within the range of your perception or inference, then He becomes a matter of belief. In that case you simply accept what you are told without asking questions. But the Lord of the Hindus is not a matter for belief. Hindus do not simply believe in God, they understand God. That is the reason why Hindus even worship space. There are temples in India that worship the five elements. You don’t require a particular altar to invoke the Lord. You can invoke Him anywhere because what is it that is not the Lord? The whole Order is the Lord, all the laws are the Lord.
We are objective when we are alive to the reality. We are talking about what is and so there is no question of belief. We can see that gold is different from copper and that is different from lead because each metal has its own atomic weight, its own physical and other properties. But a physicist knows that all of them are nothing but energy, quanta of energy. That is not a belief. If someone says, ‘I don’t see that’, then that person may have to believe, but that is not a belief that one has to live with and die with. What we have here is belief pending discovery. There is something to be understood. We understand the difference and at the same time, understand the non-difference, something more than meets the eye. That is the vision of the Veda that this whole universe is non-separate from the Lord because He is the efficient cause as well as the material cause.
Since the Lord is everything, he is all the names, all the forms and therefore we can invoke Him in any name, any form. This is the mature way of looking at the worship of God. We can pray to Him in any language because He is Omniscient and therefore should know all languages. In fact He should respond even before we call Him. This is not tolerance or anything, this is only understanding. They say that Hindus are tolerant of various forms of worship. We are tolerant no doubt, but in this particular case, we are not just tolerant. We have total acceptance as far as worship is concerned, prayer is concerned. That is why very often we find many devatas, deities in a typical room of worship. Every aspect of the Lord is represented there. We look upon the Sun as God, so we have Surya devataa. We look upon air as God, so we have Vayudevataa; we look upon earth as God: so we have Prthividevataa and so on. We worship the efficient cause, the intelligent cause and the material becomes the symbol for that. We worship the omniscient, omnipotent Lord through the symbol of the material. The sun, the moon, air etc become the symbol through which we worship the Lord. We have a variety of devatas (deities) through which we worship one God.
The Only God
We don’t even say, ‘one God’. We say ‘only God’. When you say there is one God, that means you are different from Him and He is situated somewhere else. If God is different from you, He does not include you, which means His power does not include your power. If He is different from you, then He is different from me and different from all the living beings. That means God’s power does not include the power that you have, I have, that other gods and demi-gods have, that the mosquitoes and the bugs have. Then He can only be mighty but not Almighty. He is like my uncle who is also a very powerful man. But even a mighty person is subject to limitations. Even the president of the U.S.A, a mighty person, is subject to mosquito bites and attacks from viruses! Similarly, the mighty God will also be subject to such limitations.
So, understand, it is not that there is one God. There is only God and so if someone invokes Him as Allah, that is fine; if someone invokes Him as Jesus, that is also fine. We have no problem at all. If someone cannot accept the fact of people invoking God in different names and forms, it is his/her problem. We have no problem because we do not have many gods, we do not even have one God, we have only God.
Om Tat Sat

Kali_Daughter · 02-18-2004, 09:52 AM

I like that concept,and so true.Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

Om gum nama Ganapati om
Om krim nama kali e om
Om klim nama Shivaya om
Om mani Padme hum
Ma bud'allah(I beleive in God).
AUM.

02-18-2004, 01:52 PM

this antibelief message is based on belief..... stupid

02-19-2004, 01:10 AM

Just by posting clever messages is not enough. Try to understand God first rather than clinging with stories of some puranas.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Jai Shri Krishna

barney · 02-19-2004, 10:01 PM

I may be dull but looks like you are ignorant. Blinded by your own ignorant. Because "YOU ASK FOR IT"

02-19-2004, 10:13 PM

a forum is for debates.. and you never debate, never discuss.. you post something, and if one does not agree you insult him

02-20-2004, 01:44 AM

well said. he always irritates and call them fool just because they dont agree with him.

he thinks that he knows everything & others paritularly (vaishnavas) knows nothing.

It is better to ignore the idiots like him.

Of course, he cant debate because he doesnt know anything.

barney · 02-20-2004, 03:36 AM

Vaishnavas, Shivaiats what is the difference? All prayers and rituals goes to the Supreme Being we call by many names. But here you claim to know everything while I am mundane yet you do not seem to understand a simple logic. Dividing the Hndus will not help you or anyone else. Are you saying Adhi Sankara was not a divine birth or that Buddha was mad man? Please search your heart, I know sometime your love for one manefestation alone would blind your vision of the jiwatma. You must spend time looking on both sides too. If you only look straight ahead and cross the road you are bound to meet with an accident. From young we have been thought to look left and right before crossing a road. I have a better idea, why don't you tell me which direction I should look and I will see if it is a clear path and may be I will explain later why I prefer to cal myself a hindu rather than a Vaishnava. The ball is in your court now.

02-20-2004, 08:54 AM

if you call yourself a hindu it is like to call yourself "nothing", hinduism does not exist, is only a (muslim) empty word, there's not real common beliefs

vaishnava, shaivites, advaitins there's much differences, much more than between them and christianism, islamism or buddhism..

and another difference is with your theory that it is all the same and only rituals differ..

many differences, radical differences, we are brothers because we are all living beings, not because we create some religion, god and avatars create religion, not us

02-20-2004, 09:51 AM

I worship Lord Buddha.
I worship Jesus Christ.
I worship Allah.
I worship Mahavira.
I Worship Brahma.
I Worship Rudra.
BUT I SURRENDER TO LORD KRISHNA ALONE.

This is enough to prove my tolerancy. You dunno meaning of "Vaishnavam". Vaishnavam is not "just" a religion bounded with so called "Hinduism". Theres no such religion as Hinduism. Its a myth. But Vaishnavam is a "Univeral phenomenon clearly showing that all paths lead to same God".

I worship "Lord Adi shankara" as much as i worship "Lord Raghavendra". I know why "Adi shankara" has given "Advaitham".

Above all, i surrender to Lotus feet of "Lord Narayana" alone because "Vedas" say with clear light that "Vishnu is Supreme". If you want i can show it. I can also show Status of other gods in the Vedas.

Moreover, hindus like you are against islam. But i support them. you can see it my other threads. This is another prrof of my tolerancy.

I know much about "Buddha, Jesus, Allah, Mahavira, Rudra, Brahma" more than you. So dont blabber that i dont respect other gods.

So without knowing my true character dont expose your ignorance.

Anyway are you thinking path you are travelling is a prefect. You are just a confused person guided by a baba.
I am not confused.

ok baby go to your baba and leave vaishnavas alone. Hereafter dont pull vaishnavam into a myth called "Hinduism".

I proudly call myself as a vaishnava. I feel no problem in it.

ALLAHU AKBAR.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Jai Shri Krishna

barney · 02-21-2004, 07:26 AM

We Hinduism has been accepted as a religion of the followers of the Vedas and Puranas. Nothing can change that although we Hindus know verty well that ourrs is a Saiva Sithandtha Sanathana Dharma but to make a non Hindu say that four worded religion would be like asking them to learn Sanskrit before they can pronounce that. Be realistic, when the whole world has been since the arrival of the Parsis to Inia who decided that our way of life is a religion called Hinuism because of the river Sindhu and to make the story short it was branded as Hinduism for centuries. To change it now is like creating a new religin for the Hindus. So, do not be paranoid and accept it a try to be a good Hindu and show the Muslims and Christians what our religion really means. Do not try to break it into several parts as it is India has been broken into several parts because the so called Vaisnaviats surrended to the Muslims and today the north had been broken away because of Mulims majority. Do you still want to break it further"?

02-21-2004, 07:41 AM

Dear Friend,

i am not breaking nor my any vaishnava friends. We vaishnavas come here for satsang only (ie., to chant). but unfortunately many people irritate us so that sometimes we have to retiliate.

again why bring muslims to the scene ? remember we are in a kali yuga. so we cant except everything to be nice as in the prev yugas. whatever happening is due to krsna lila only.

Lord krishna is soo naughty that we cant sometimes understand his lila.

whenever we quote a stanza from vedas, some sects of people take it as a ego & sprang on us. ("My thread singing glory of lord brahma is a fine testimony" for this)

Anyway from today we vaishnavas had decided to ignore the people who irritate us. We want only sathsang, no debates. Because ignoring will be a good punishment for them.

But we wont ignore the people who come to share the views instead of debating.

Even the moderator of this thread is cooperating with us. I like him.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Jai Shri Krishna

barney · 02-21-2004, 08:02 AM

Krishna Krishna Govinda Krishna Gopala Bala Krishna
Nanda Nandana Bhaktha Chandana Bala Lola Krishna
Sundara Vadhana Saroja Nayana Radha Priya Krishna
Yadhava Krishna Yashodha Krishna Sathya Sai Krishna

02-21-2004, 08:27 AM

I am already in the right path.

I pray the almight "Virata Purusha" - The Parabrahma to show you & all others the right path.

02-21-2004, 09:50 AM

Once you quoted that you are analysing sanatana dharma from all angles. But in all your threads, i can see your quotes are from "Ramakrishna, advaitham, saiva siddantham, shiva purana & mahabharatha" only. i dont think you have studied "works of Sri Ramanuja, works of Sri Madhvacharya, works of Sri SwamiNarayana, Chaitanya Bhagavatham etc...". then only u can analyse sanathana dharma in all angels.

from ur quotes in all threads it seems you are attached to saiva siddhantham rather than other sects. since you are telling yourself secular i suggested above works to you.

if you are intrested in "shaivam only" no problem. May lord Rudra bless you.

No debates/arguements welcomed.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Jai Shri Krishna

02-21-2004, 10:29 AM

We Hinduism has been accepted as a religion of the followers of the Vedas and Puranas
..the problem is that i have a concept of following the scriptures different by yours.. i think simply that saying like that you are not following them even if you read it everyday and you are thinking the same of me. And there's nothing bad in it, we are in a forum to learn and teach and from the debates new ideas and realizations take birth. But i have not any problem to say that, even if we have the same books in the bookshelf, we do not belong to the same religion (=i.e. way to reconnect with the absolute)
If i see your wife i can say that she's very beautiful, but i have mine and i love her, if you say that everyone has to love your wife or that there's no difference and everyone has to love the impersonal and undifferentiated "param wife" behind and beyond any wife in the world i do not agree.

"Do not try to break it into several parts as it is India has been broken into several parts because the so called Vaisnaviats surrended to the Muslims and today the north had been broken away because of Mulims majority. Do you still want to break it further"?"
••why mix politic and religion? let us unite against terrorism, let us choose a good government who will defend the rights of the people but let us not put god under our material interests.. (vaishnavas maybe have lost north india (your very strange and personal interpretation) but they are now all over the world spreading vedic spiritual consciousness... good change.. and if spiritual consciousness will spread all the problems will be solved, not that you submit religion to politics and human needs.. it is asuric)

barney · 02-22-2004, 09:38 AM

I'm not form India but I can see what politics is doing to religin in India. People are divided by caste which has been misinterpreted by politicians for their political gain. The British motto was divide and rule in India but after indepandance the Indian politician are using the same method to gain power. So, tell me if religion is not politicize.

02-22-2004, 09:25 PM

religion used in politic is no more religion

maadhav · 02-22-2004, 10:30 PM

<< The British motto was divide and rule in India but after indepandance the Indian politician are using the same method to gain power. >>

as long as anyone, brits or politicians, succeed in dividing the hindus, then that is the sign
that shows the hindus have not understood hinduism correctly and or are not practicing it correctly.

when general public knows and lives by dharma,
no one would have any success indiving the hindus.
then we would not have crook politicians or swammis or gurus.

adharmis cannot win over the suras for long.
this is not time for the yogis to remain silent and secluded.

maadhav · 02-22-2004, 10:37 PM

<< religion used in politic is no more religion >>

rama ruled according to dharma.
so did vikraditya.

some politicians - who do not care dharma- are using asuric techniques to rule over others. this is their adharma.
they would succeed only so long as the public is ignorant of dharma and or not practicing dharma, and not united.