[ Editor’s note. Continued from part one: http://www.indiadivi…tananda-das-r26 ]
MM: In our Orissa, the pothi of Achyutananda Das have been found in many places. You might be knowing in which places those have been gotten?
AM: Aagyan. One is in our Kakatapur. Bhagavana Misra at Surat. Now he is in Puri. It is with him. Bisi Ratha of Sakigopal, he has one. There is another man called Kalandi Misra of Kalia Gorada, a place of Sakigopal. It is with him. Another one is near Balakati. I have not gone there, only heard it from the people.
MM: The pothi is in all these places. Which place near Balakati?
AM: I have only heard, not gone. It is near Balakati. Balakati means Balakati ‘proper’. I have not gone there.
MM: There is a place called Jhinti.
AM: There is Jhinti. That is a big place [bada jaga] but that is not the pothi of Mahapurusha. Aagyan. I laid the foundation stone [subha] of that place. But up to that time [se parjyanta], this is what was there: At first that was the pothi of Navaratna Pandita. When he first started it, arranged a fire sacrifice and invited me [dakithile], I went there. At that time it was coming, the analysis [samikshya] of the Navaratna Pandita. When the answers came, it came out that the Navaratna Pandits are speaking. Such and such Navaratna pandit of Bikramaditya [name of the raja; historical raja of early times] is speaking. The answer came like this. Then they brought something from somewhere [another pothi]. Now people say that again it is of Mahapurusha. I do not have any experience of that.
MM: People must be going there.
AM: Many people are going there. Many.
MM: Is that a Sunya pothi?
AM: No, that is not a Sunya pothi. Not of His. That pothi is nothing, only four or five small pothis are there. The answer comes in those. That is [already] written. Answers come in that.
MM: Aagyan. If it is already written, how is it possible [to get answers]? Thousands and thousands of people are going there. Suppose in one pothi there must be fifty pages. How will one writing be for all?
AM: Aagyan, listen. That can be done. When I did not have the tamba pothi, I was doing the prasna in a palm leaf pothi. It was there. It was happening like that. Listen, one thing is that in our society the problems are limited. What? If you calculate those one by one, your problems will be 84 not 85 [chaura asi; pancha asi].
AM: Its reason [tara karana] is that, look, the problems [samasya] are according to the body [sariraku nei]. In our body there are 84 jantras.
MM: Okay. English — Now he is telling about the physiology of man. In a human body, there are 84 jantras.
AM: Aagyan, do you understand? Eighty-four jantras. You see “charma gherichi aba chaurasiki” [“the 84 jantras are covered with skin” [charma (skin) gherichi]. So when we say 84, there are 84 jantras in our body. Those 84 jantras — we have another story. In our villages, you must have heard, “Tara 49 [ana chasa] pabana bahilani” [“His 49 winds are blowing”] [that means the man is about to die; he will die soon]. So in 84 jantras, there are 49 nadis. So six are the chakras. “Adhara linga navau tadupari hrudaye, kantha deshe lalate” [“From [half] the linga, navel, above that, the heart, throat [kantha] deshe [area], the forehead [lalate]. So 84 jantras, 49 nadis and there are the 6 closed [kilini] jantra [the six chakras]. Taking this, these 84 jantras — this body was created taking these 84 jantras. So our bhaga [share, portion], was our 84, not 85. Whatever question you make, it will remain within those 84. It will never be 85. So what happens, there must be 84 pages.
AM: Eighty-four problems will be mentioned. Among the 84 problems [samasya], among those, you will have one. But in that one — This question will not come very clearly. Suppose one asked [pacharila], something of mine has been stolen, who has taken it. For that, the answer will come like this, Amareswar Misra has taken it. His house is in Sri Ram pur. Answers will come like this. But in that one the reply will come that, a man ‘A’ has taken it. His name consists of four letters [chari akshyara heuchhi]. The first letter will be ‘A’. His house is in such and such place [amuka jagare]. Like this it will come. ‘Direct’ answer [uttara] will not come.
MM: Okay, something like this once happened. A gentleman [badra loka] once went to Bhagavan Misra. Some one applied tantra to him. We asked him about it. He said, when we went there, it came out in the pothi. You have been done [prayoga] tantra. If you go to a Musalaman gunia named ‘K’, he will make you all right.
MM: So he reached him after searching. Something like this also happens here?
AM: Yes. No, what happens here, I am a different type [alaga prakara loka] of person. If any such person comes to me, I cure [bhala kari die] him by the force [balare] of my own vidya]. I do not allow him to go to any other person. Because I have done sadhana on three things, mantra, tantra and jantra. So why shall I send them to others?
MM: So you do not have anything like that?
AM: No. The answer will come. Till the answer comes [uttara asiba parjyanta], I don’t allow them to put any further question. That is within my knowledge [gyana bhitare].
MM: If I say, please bring your pothi, we will go to Bhubaneswar or Kataka, please come with the pothi, will you come?
AM: Aagyan. The fact is this, our pothi goes to Kataka, goes to Paradip, goes to Puri, these three places. Because we have built Gadi in these three places. Udayabata Asrhama, that has been built [as ashram of Achyutananda Das in Kataka]. If this pothi of the Mahapurusha will go there, work will be done, so there is a Gadi house there.
MM: Aagyan, where is it in Puri?
AM: In Puri our Mahapurusha has a special Matha.
MM: Is it near Jhadeswari?
AM: Gandharba Matha, near the police line.
MM: Jhadeswari is there near the police line [Jhadeswari is the name of Goddess, a benevolent one, probably Laxmi; primarily a village deity]. There is an Ayurvedic hospital there. There is a big banyan tree [bara gachha] there. That ashrama is situated there.
AM: Aagyan, yes.
MM: Here in this road, when we went, there is a place called Rohini Kunda.
MM: Do you have any connection [samparka] to that place?
AM: Aagyan. There was not existence [astitwa; asti, bone; twa, flesh] of Rohini Kunda ashram. There was nothing. Ordinarily [sadharana] it fell like this, forest and hunka [white ants nest. First when this pothi came, facts about that ashram came in it. We all went to see that. Then there was nothing. There was a woman called Nagamani Ma, who was neither a male nor a female. She was there at Kataka. All of a sudden [daivat], she arrived near [asi pahanchhile] the pothi. One morning she came here. We had no house here. [Where his present house is, that is not his original village, his village is a little away]. Our house was in the village. When I woke up from the bed, I found her standing, meaning [bole] on one leg, folding her hands this [hataku emiti chhandi (crossed)] arms crossed, at the entrance to my door. Then, seeing her, I feared very much. Why? If you see her appearance, you will also be astonished [rahi jibe; you will be stopped]. The person will be about six hands high [uchha]. The width will be this much [showing with his hands].
MM: Very strong and stout [hrusta (sound heart); prusta (sound body)].
P: No, do we not have any hrusta prusta persons? Again she was such an effulgent person [jyotiban loka], such as I have not seen anywhere [implies that when he looked at her it seemed as though there was light or rays of light coming from her.] A vermilion mark [sindura tipa], one this big [showed with his hand, the size of a small orange] [gote ede bada]. A vermilion tipa was put on [mara hoithiba]. She is Suklambari [“who wears white cloth”; sukla, white; ambari cloth]. She wears white cloth [dhala luga pindhanti]. [Suklambari, refers to a woman, a widow or a sadhu]. I stayed there. She is very polite [namra]. She said, “Baba, I have come here to put a question.” I then said, “Ma, questions are not put here. It is done in the ashram.” At that time the ashram was functioning in a palm leaf [temporary] house [tala (palm) barada (palm leaf) tati (woven together)]. “Go there, I am going.” Then, when I went there, she was sitting. There, she made questions. Then her reply came that, “your place is Rohini Kunda sthana (place)” [a small pond, Rohini, in the form of a crow, saved Vishnu sometimes; in the Jaganath temple compound there is a small structure known as Rohini Kunda]. “Your karma [work] is the renovation of Rohini [Rohini Udhara].” Then many questions were made on that. “What shall we do? How shall we do that?” Then the ashram was constructed there. The Thakura was installed [basile]. A house was built and a fire sacrifice was held. Everything was done. Then this was there. This was how long back? Eighty-five, no eighty-four.
MM: Achha, achha.
Man: There was nothing. Recently [ebe] all this has been done.
AM: It was done in the year 1984.
P’s Mother: We did not know about that place at all.
MM: Yes. If the pothi directs you to go to America — I had been to America.
MM: Regarding [samparkare] Achyutananda I — I am a professor [adhyapaka; person who teaches]. I went there.
MM: When I was there, I gave some talks [baktruta — to speak something] on Achyutananda [Achyutananda samparkare] there.
MM: The people have become very much eager [bahuta agrahi hoichhanti], so suppose if we ask you to come to America, you will do something there. At that time, will you come?
AM: There is nothing to say no. I will ask Mahapurusha first whether, shall I go or not? If he says “You enter into fire”, I will enter.
MM: If it will say that you go with the pustak?
Man: He will definitely [albata (Hindi)] go.
MM: If you don’t get direction from there, you will not go anywhere?
AM: It came once in a question to go to the Maharaja of Nepal.
MM: Did you put this question? Meaning who [put the question]?
AM: We brought the silver pothi.
MM: You also have a silver [rupa] pothi with you?
AM: Yes. Aagyan. A silver pothi.
MM: He has also a palm leaf made of copper and another is made of silver.
AM: That I got from Gupteswar [in Koraput district] . I told you.
MM: We have not seen that.
AM: No, you have not seen it.
MM: Don’t you use that?
AM: Aagyan. How shall I use that in this yuga? I am dying with fear [dari maruchhi].
Man: It has come recently. No work has been done.
AM: Anirudha Das kept repeating [japithile], in these times, how shall you use it?
Man: Anirudha Das, the magistrate [laughing].
AM: Nothing will happen.
MM: Everything is done at the direction of the Mahapurusha. Everyone will give you the way [pakhei jibe], Aagyan. Mahapurusha has immense power [apara sakti]. If He has put on you the blessing [asirbada] — .
AM: So, like that, then it [the pothi] took me to Nepal. “Who am I and where is Nepal?” So I wrote a letter to the Maharaja of Nepal in three languages, Hindi, English and Oriya. I wrote that, “For you there is something like this [There is something like this of yours]. If you inform me of when you will be available there [keun samayre rahuchhanti], I shall reach there at that time.” He received the letter and immediately sent his manager. He said to him, “You go to this address. Who is that man; what is case [kana ghatana]. If you are satisfied, make all arrangements [bandobasta] for his visit.” So he came and reached here. On that day I was not here. I was at Kataka. Then he took my Kataka address [thikana] from my home and reached there. When he reached Kataka [pahanchhi], there was the whole discussion [kathabarta sabu hele]. Then, from there, he went. After going, ho told the raja — He fixed our day and went away. Our day to go was agreed [thik hela]. After that he made the passport and everything.
MM: Passport is not needed for us.
AM: No, this train ticket, that is to say, plain ticket [udajahaja].
MM: He did your plane ticket. You got down at Katmandu [jai olahaile, olahaiba]?
AM: Aagyan. When we returned from that place, this was not done. When we went the difficulty was that everybody ate meat [sabe mansa khaile ta bhitare] inside that airplane [unacceptable because of the presence of the pothi]. When we came back, we came in a car.
MM: You came by car?
MM: English — He also went to Nepal. The Raja of Nepal invited him.
MM: Many things must have come about the Raja of Nepal. You took the pothi with you?
AM: Yes, Aagyan.
MM: There the pothi must have been opened?
AM: Yes, yes. I took the pothi, the Raja put questions. Everything about him [tankara sabu]. The Rani also put questions. The Mother of the Raja [Rajamata] also put questions. Everybody.
MM: Were they pleased when the saw?
AM: Yes. [ . . . ] He also gave a pothi which was in the palace.
MM: He gave one? Will that come to any use for you here [kichhi karyare lagiba]?
AM: Yes. It will come into use. Because — of course [abasya] whatever the work is [karya kana], it is a thing which will benefit the people [jana upakara].
MM: By now, you might also be getting the direction [nirdesha] of the Thakura, in the medium [madhyamane] of the dream?
MM: So now, any other thing?
AM: We see dreams always, so that is not a big thing. But one thing is that we are household persons [ghruhi loka]. We are amidst [bhitare] many kinds [bibhina prakara] of rubbish [abarjana; filthy, dirty things like garbage, rubbish], so how shall we get the right thing [thik jinisa]. So whatever we do and see, that is dream. Then that is not good [su, enjoyable, also true] dream [swapna].
MM: That is bad dreams [ku swapna; bad dreams, nightmares].
AM: Aagyan. Because the good [su] dream, that is completely true [ekabele bastaba (true)]. But that which is merely dream [kahli (only) swapna], that is not true [abastaba].
Man: Aagyan, our dream is of three kinds, dream, susakti [good power], and Saurya [enlightenment]. These are the three stages [abastha; stages or conditions] of dreams.
AM: The dream which we see at the time of doing sadhana will be neither this side nor that side [they will be straight, i.e. true]. It is always true [ekabara thik]. Because there is concentration [ekagrata], there is [thae] sincerity [nistha], and all fear, devotion — four things are mixed together [misikari thae].
MM: Now you are using this pothi? You must have some definite rules [nirdishta (definite), niyama], with which rules you will do this every day. What are those rules?
AM: I was telling you the rules. So what are my rules?
MM: Every day by getting up in the morning
AM: After getting up in the morning every day, my first work was my daily ablution [nityakarma, lit. daily work, bathing, hygiene and grooming], puja; while doing this [sath sathi] I also do Rudrabhiseka. This is the direction of the Mahapurusha. The pothi will not work [pothi hebane] if I do not do Rudrabhiseka. The jantra will not remain alive [sajiba (with life) rahiba nahi].
MM: Do you observe Rudrabhiseka in a Siva temple?
AM: No, no. This jantra on which the pothi is kept, the abhiseka is done on that jantra. [abhiseka is by reciting some mantra you will pour some water on Siva; in this case he will put some water in a brass pot and pour that on the jantra. It is an empowerment done for rajas.] Then [tabade] this is, after completing [sariki; sarikare] the abhiseka, I shall complete all the worship of the God. After completing that, p. 13. I do not eat anything on the outside.
MM: Nothing, anywhere?
AM: Nothing anywhere. Even I do not drink water. Whatever I shall offer to the God [jaha puja karitibi], I shall eat that. Then I shall go.
MM: There you have Jaganath in your ashram, an image of Jaganath?
MM: Is that Jaganath made of wood [katha -re] ?
AM: No, Aagyan, stone [pathara -ra]
MM: Jaganath is not made of stone, Aagyan.
AM: It is there.
MM: Where is it? That is wood image [daru (wood) murti].
AM: Aagyan, listen. In our sastra it is mentioned [sastra-re achhi] “Kasta, pasana, taru, truna — Tanmadhye bije Narayana” [“Wood, stone, tree, grass — Narayana appears (bijaya — victory) within these.” So we are making Jaganath in wood, it is true. But before that, you see the Nila Madhava Murti [the earlier form of Jaganath, in the form of a blue stone] in stone [patharara]. The Nila Madhava is the original thing [mula jinisa]. Then Jaganath has been created. He is made of stone. After that again, you will see, in Kendrapara, there is the image of Jaganath.
MM: [You mean] Baladev Jeu? [Baladev God, the image there is called Baladeva].
AM: Baladeva Jeu is made of stone. Then there are many made of stone in Balangir. In the raja’s palace [raja batire] of Balangir there is the image of Jaganath. Jaganath, Balabadra, Subadra. There three images are of stone. Like that, it is many places. [Balangir is a district in eastern Orissa, north of Puri district]. Because, whoever can perform the Nava Kalevara [“New Body”] —
MM: Those are of wood.
AM: They will construct it in wood. Those who will worship it at home, they will make it from grass [form a murti in grass] — those who will keep those as house deity [gruha devata]. Then, the stone images. Those who can not perform the Kalevara, they will make it in stone.
MM: Achyutananda Das has written Malika [Malika is the main important thing of Achyutananda Das, in which he has forecasted many things.] Why did he write malika?
MM: For what audience [sunaiba pain] did he write it?
AM: No —
MM: He wrote it for Jaganath to hear it.
AM: No. Jaganath has told him that and he has written. Why will he tell it to Jaganath to listen? The meaning [artha] of the word ‘malika’ is [malika sabdara] “Manabikatara Sanchara taku Juge Juge Sthiti rakhiba.” [Mana bikatara (humanity) sanchara (to spread) juge juge (from age to age) sthiti (present)], for which malika has been created [srusti hoichhi].
MM: Achha, whatever little I know, I shall tell that. ‘Malika’ — Mali is an object which we wear around our neck.
MM: ‘Ka’ — Akara, Sakara, Sanjoga, Akara Brahma Rupascha [Skt. When we put the akara (diacritic vertical) on ‘Ka’ (kaw), akara is sakara (the akara has a form); So akara then becomes (or is converted to Brahman rupa). [Malika. When we add the ‘Ka (with akara)’ with Mali (the garland) it becomes the form of Brahman, which then added to the Mali, then is capable of predicting the future.] All these things are there. If you put the Mali around your neck, your concentration [ekagrata] will intensify [badhe]. This Malika, whatever we have, it was written by Achyutananda Das p. 15 to for Jaganath to hear [sunaiba pai]. I have heard this. I am an uneducated [murkha loka], I do not know anything regarding this [bisayare].
AM: all right. You will see malika, all malikas [pratyeka malika], Jaganath has said and Mahapurusha has written. In many places it is written that Aagyan, I am a foolish [pamara] unintelligent [mudha], I do not know anything. Whatever You [Jaganath] have said, I am only writing that.
MM: In your Nava gurjari [another book written by Achyutananda Das], there is Sarana Panjara [sarana, to take his shelter, devotional prayers].
AM: Sarana Panjara is there.
MM: In that he has prayed to [prathana karichhanti] Jaganath. In that [if you read it] tears will come from out of your eyes [akhiru luha khasi padiba]. “Jyestha Sukala Ekadasi, Tahinki mo asa [my hope] [for that] — Abhaya [fearless] charane [feet] magai [beg] mora ehi bharasa [this is my only wish (hope, desire)].” [Jyestha Sukala Ekadasi, I am longing for that day; at your fearless feet I beg, this is my only hope] [Achyutananda Das is praying to die on this day]. Then he said “am praying at the fearless feet of Jaganath; Oh God, give me the eleventh day of bright half of Jyestha.” I said [when I read that verse], “Oh Lord [dian], you did not leave your body [deha tyaga (leave) kari anthile] on that ekadasi dina? You did it on the full moon day. No, that is wrongly written in Asta Gurjari. That will be the full moon day. He sat in his samadhi on the eleventh day. A cloth was put to cover him [luga ghodai diagala]. The eleventh day, twelfth day [dwadasi], thirteenth day [trayodasi[, fourteenth day [chaturdasi, and the full moon day [purnami]. On the purnami all his disciples gathered there, disciples were there from among Hadis, from among Pathans, Hindu disciples. Many types of disciples were there. They said that if our guru leaves his body we will take that and we will perform the last rights [sanskara karibu] according to our custom [ama matare]. The Pathans said, we will perform the rites as per our custom. Different people said different [bhinia loka bhibina prakare kahile]. Then when the lifted the cloth, the found nothing was there [deki delaru kichhi nahi]. The sunya purusha disappeared in sunya.
AM: This story, what have you collected [sangraha] concerning [bisayare] the birth [janma] of Mahapurusha Achyutananda?
MM: Whatever I have read from the books. I am uneducated [murkha; ignorant] I do not know anything. Whatever I have understood, I have done so by asking [pachari] all of you [apana mananku] [people like him]. Achyutananda Das’ father was a sevak in Puri Jaganatha temple. He was an employees [karmachari: not actually sevak] , not a sevak, he was an employee. His name was Dinabandhu Khuntia.
MM: He and his wife, husband wife were staying there. They did not have any child. So both [ubhaye] of them would always go and tell it to Jaganatha. They would say, “Of God [diantu], please give us a child.” One day they dreamt that tomorrow morning you stand behind my Garuda pillar. You will be standing at it back [pachhare (back) chhida (standing) hoi], you will see that a child will appear before you for one ‘second’ [gote muhurta] and will go away. And he will be your son.
MM: So he was Achyutananda Das. This is what I have heard.
AM: No, no, that is the fact [ghatana]. There is a slight difference [olam bilam — “little this side or that side”]. Mahapurusha is the part of Jaganatha’s body [ansa bisesa] only [matra]. Because up to this time [parjyanta] many learned people [gyani loka] have been born, many divine sages [debarsi], many Brahmin [Brahmarsi] have been born, but before this, the word ‘Mahapurusha’ is not applied is not applied to anyone. There is only one reason [karana] — that he was not born from his mother’s womb [ajoni sambhuta]. He was not born from the womb [jonigata janma tankara nahi]. “Mahapurusha te Charanara Bindum”. [Mahapurusha I salute Thy feet]. So he is the Mahapurusha.
MM: “Bande Mahapurusha te Charanara Bindum” [bande, pray you, am praying].
AM: Aagyan. So, one thing is that, as he was not born from his mother’s womb, before his name the word “Mahapurusha” [sabdata rahichhi] has been affixed. Until today, whomever you find, the yogis, rishis and munis, etc. [ityadi], none of them are called “Mahapurusha”.
MM: I said, “Oh God, we will write here [at Jhinti, at that temple], “Bande Purushotamam” [I pray you; Purushotamam, a name of Jaganatha or Vishnu, also means the best of men; utoma, best].
P?? [or MM continued]: He said, no, no —
MM: “Why did you write that, you write “Bande Mahapurusha te Charanara Bindum”.
MM: So tears will come from your eyes [luha khasi padiba agnya].
AM: Mahapurusha was always thinking himself [nijaku] to be most [ati] humble [hina] and negligible [naganya], this he kept within his though [chintadhara bhitare rakhichhanti].
MM: “Foolish Achyuta is speaking”.
MM: “I am poor [dina] Achyuta speaking, poor Achyuta, foolish Achyuta.”
AM: So, this is Mahapurusha. He did not have the mark [lakshyana, mark, symbol] of getting birth from the womb [joni janma gata lakshyana]. Dinabandu Khuntia was his father. He is adopted [posya putra].
MM: Dinabandu Khuntia was an adopted son?
AM: No, no. Dinabandu Khuntia accepted Mahapurusha as his adopted son [posyaputra hisabare (as, calculation) ghrahana (accepted) kariba: accepted him as adopted son]. He was not an employee [karmachari]. Out of love and affection [sradhare] he sweeps [jhadu mariba] the outer door [bahara dwara] of Jaganath temple whenever Dinabandu Khuntia goes to Puri. But after many days when they didn’t have any [child], both the husband and wife thought that “our time went away” [they became old]. At that time they were 45 years old. There is no hope [au ta ye nahi]. Then what is the gain [labha kana hela] of sweeping [jhadu (broom) olai, olaiba, to sweep] the temple every day throughout our life. So according to the words of his wife [katha anusare], Dinabandhu huntia agreed [raji hoikari] and both of them, fell down in surrender [trahi padile] [went to the temple and fell down flat before the God, took his shelter], only to get a child. At last [seare] what happened, after trahi for 29 days, they got the direction [nirdesha], when you will take a bath [ghadoila] near the aruna sthamba [sun pillar; it was originally at Konaraka; it was brought to Puri temple after decline of Konaraka temple] [place where aruna pillar now stands at Puri temple was believed to at one time on the shore of the sea] [now stands just at the main entrance of the temple; at the outside] [alternative translation is “when the aruna pillar is bathed], the boy who will come and embrace you and will call you as “Father”, he will be your son. It means [ta artha] that nowadays, where the present aruna pillar stands, at that time, 500 years before, that was the sea [seita samudra thila]. When he was taking his bath there, as a small child, Achyutananda came and called him “Father”. He took him to his village. His village was Tilakana [Kataka district near Nemala].
MM: Near Nemala, in the middle [madhyare of the delta [trikona bhumi, triangle] of Chitratpala and Luni river [nadi].
AM: Aagyan. He spent there most of the time of his life. Then Dinabandhu Khuntia died. After this, he again came back to Puri.
MM: Achyutananda Das has mathas in different places in Orissa. Which place does he like most [tanku besi bhala lage]?
AM: The most favorite [sabutharu priya jaga] place of Mahapurusha is Puri.
MM: Puri, the Blue Stone [Hill, Mountain]. Purushottam Nilakandara [Puri temple is situated on what was once a mountain].
AM: This is his foremost [first, primary] favorite [prathama priya jaga]. But the second most favorite place is Nemala.
MM: Ekangra muni ashrama, Padma Bana, Nemala bata [banyan tree]. [Achyuta said in the Jhinti pothi that Nemal attracts him like a magnet attracts iron because that was the seat Ekangra Muni; he called the place lotus forest, there was a big banyan tree there where Achyutananda Das took his samadhi].
AM: Aagyan. So Nemal is also — these two places are his favorite places. Again [ahuri) many other places are there.
MM: Has anything come out about your place? That this is also a favorite place [priya jaga].
AM: Yes, Aagyan. Or else why was the ashram constructed there? It is there in Prachi Mahatma [the name of a book, a purana. Near Kakatapur there is a river named Prachi. That is a very sacred river. Many things have been written about the river in a book, the Prachi Mahatma: a Purana is a collection of oral knowledge about a particular place (concerning the sacred significance) place or the activities of a particular deity]. Brahma was performing his yoga sadhana sitting on a stone. Mahapurusha did his trikala sadhana [three times, present, past and future; he can tell everything about present, past and future]. Mahapurusha could not achieve [parila] that siddhi. When he did not achieve siddhi, he went out [baharile, went out, set out] to kalpa bata [the ancient banyan tree] [kalpa, measure of time, very old, ancient], to kill himself [atma hatya karibaku]. At that time, Jaganath and Laxmi both were sitting on the Chhayabata [another Banyan tree inside the Puri Jaganath temple compound] and looking at the Mahapurusha. So he was telling them, crying, “Why shall I keep this life? You have sent me to do some work. But I am so unfit [adhama] that I am not able to do that work. Then why shall I keep this life?” So Jaganath told him, “Don’t worry, if you go to the Prachi Dhama [dhama, kshetra, sthana are gradations of sacred place, in order of intensity] and to Japa kshetra [in Prachi]. If you go there and perform japa on the japa stone [japa prasthara], you will achieve Trikala siddhi. After many a search, he located the stone. He achieved siddhi by sitting on that stone. During that sadhana, he was staying here in this ashram. He has written this in his malika.
MM: When you constructed your ashram here. earth must have been dug. At that time, were any remnants [dhwansa basesa: dhwansa is complete destruction, basesa the remains] here?
AM: Aagyan. No remnants were found, only a small well was there.
MM: That means there was something here.
AM: Now that well was found half-dug. Only that well was here.
MM: In your ashram, do you conduct any daily puja? Excepting the puja for Jaganath, anything for Achyutananda?
AM: Of the Mahapurusha? There is the Sunya Asana [seat] of the Mahapurusha there, where the well is situated. You must have seen. Close to it [se agare] some Tulasi trees have been planted in a place like a circle [gote golai (circle) hoikari].
MM: Yes, yes. What is that?
AM: Well [bamphi]. Near that well, we keep his wooden sandal [paduka] and worship.
MM: In your pothi, writing comes only in Oriya? Or Oriya, Hindi, Telugu, etc.?
AM: No, Aagyan. Only Oriya and Sanskrit.
MM: It comes in Sanskrit? I once asked [means Achyuta], where are your pothis? He said, it is within the Sunya Kupa [well, a larger well, like the one Arta Baba had at Konarak] of Puri [there are many sacred wells in Puri]. [water of that well is used exclusively for the deity; no outsider is allowed to draw water from that well], in Jajpur town, Phulbani town, there one Brahmin will get the pothi. That will take place in Phulbani, in such and such place in Konarak.
AM: The pothi [grantha; again a difference in degree, grantha ia a voluminous one; pothi is the Oriya word] of Mahapurusha is everywhere.
MM: It is in the Himalayas. So how is it there in the Himalayas? It is snowing there, soil erosion is taking place there. There are no almiras there.
AM: Aagyan, I am telling you about my experience of this year. I have got one pothi this year, of the Mahapurusha from Gupteswara [in Jeypur]. Of course [abasya] I have not got that, some one else has got it. Mahapurusha directed me to help him in his sadhana. “If you do that, he will do my work. And he will get a pothi from Gupteswar.” I taught that man all the sadhana and he did it.
MM: Did you go there?
AM: Aagyan, I stayed there with him from Gundicha to Bahuda [Gundicha is the car festival at Puri (the temple the car goes to), Bahuda (lit. return), the return journey of the car festival; from one to the other is seven days.] He remained the Gupteswara and did his sadhana and I watched him at the door [juare jagi kari thili].
MM: Okay, Thakura has written malika in Oriya, no? Will you please tell me one or two words? I have heard about malika but have never seen it or read it?
AM: Aagyan, tell me which malika. Aagyan, malika, if you tell me, I can sing it for 12 to 14 hours.
MM: No, Agata Bhabisya Malika [Agata (coming) Bhabisya (future)], or is there any other Malika?
AM: There are many malikas. I have learned malikas so much that I can sing it for 12 to 14 hours [ghanta] at a time.
MM: Please tell us something about the Agata Bhabisya Malika. Now, Achyutananda Das wrote malika in which he predicted what will happen when. He said that I have got those things by heart. I said that, why not you recite something so that we will listen.
[Pandit sings a portion of malika here]
MM: Aagyan, when your pothi was not yet started [arambha], at that time, the people of your village [gan gandara loka mane], where did they go for consultation [paramarsa] or to know something [bhuja bhuji]? Like, any koviraj or tantric?
AM: Aagyan, it is there from age to age [juge juge]. What is there — we have read the history [itihasa padhiche] but have not seen that. So if there is no smruti [remembered, orally transmitted knowledge, veda], there origin [udbhava] of sruti [to learn something by hearing] will not be there. So when there is some smruti, the srutikaras [the people who write those things by listening] p. 23. write that differently [bikhipta bhabare (like) lekhante]. So smruti must be there. Like that, in all ages, there are knowledgeable persons [gyani loka] and also the ignorant [agyani]. So the knowledgeable persons and ignorant persons are there in different ages. So when a person suffers from some difficulty [kichhi ta asubidha padile] the require the help of [abasyaka karanti] an advisor [updeshta]. So it is there is all ages.
MM: Aagyan, we took much of your time, so when we will come again, if we come —
MM: Can we sit inside at the time when you read the pothi and see it?
AM: Aagyan, you will see and read. You can do everything.
MM: If other people will complain [apati]?
AM: We have nothing like that.
MM: We have nothing to do, we will only see.
AM: You will see, read, and whatever you will want. The research wallas, those like you, those who come here, I give them all types of facilities [sabu prakara subidha (facilities; opposite of asubidha)]. Because all others are coming. A group comes from France [panjhe (group)].
MM: Are they coming?
AM: They are always coming, for the last three or four years. They bring instruments like this. I read in Oriya and it comes out in their own language. They don’t feel any difficulty.
MM: When you sang the malika —
MM: At that time you said, he wrote with a five-pointed pen — Achyutananda wrote malika. There is one point in one pen. In that, if you write ‘A’ one ‘A’ will be written. In a five-pointed pen, if you write ‘A’ then fives ‘A’s’ will be written. So how is it possible?
AM: Aagyan, listen. That is what? Of course, I have seen in the Nemala matha, the pens and stylon [lekhani] with which Mahapurusha writes. There are five pens. One pen is made of gold, on in silver, one in horn [singha], one in iron, and another in lead [sisa]. There are five pens.
MM: If we go there, will Vivekananda Das show that to us?
AM: Yes. It is worshipped there. You will see it. There is no difficulty. There are five pens. So the meaning is not that when Mahapurusha appeared in the form of man [nara rupa-re janma hoithile], was he writing with five pens at the same time, holding those in five fingers? Aagyan, it is not that. There are five mana [pancha mana] and 25 prakruti [pachisi prakruti]. Inside this [body] there are five manas. So the Mahapurusha lost his atma [atmaku hajai deuthile] within the five Mahabhutas. He was losing his own atman within the five Mahabhutas. He was sending [pathauthile] that mana, he was using that pen to express that bhaba. We have in his Brahman Gyana Sangita [or Samhita], he has written:
“Samira tatwa sutra dhara joga
Lauha lekhani huai nijoga
Jadi krodhatama tathya he guru
Raupya lekhani sutra chalu karu
Bhaba tanmaya prema jaladhire
Suvarna lekhani nisruta ta thare
Jadi rasana basana kasana
Singha nishruta kalama lekhana.”
Iron pen is
Oh guru, if the fact is of an angry mood [krodatma]
I write the verse with silver pen
When involved in the feeling of the ocean of love
It springs from the golden pen.”
If it is rasana [juicy], basana [thoughtful??; basa, think something by sitting], kasana [painful]
The writing flows from the horn pen [kalama]
He has written that whatever feeling arose him [jeun bhabhata tankara Jagratha heuthila], he was expressing that feeling with that pen.
Man: Is it written, the five-pointed pen?
MM: I asked this to God [dianku], “Oh God, you were writing with a five-pointed pen, this I read from a book. In a book by the weekly of Prajatantra. One weekly comes out [bahare].
MM: In that, five to seven or eight years before, one writing came out on Achyutananda. I said, “Oh God, how did you write with a five-pointed pen?” [It came out in the pothi] “Pragalbha kim na badati; chhagala kim na khadati?” [What will a madman not say; what will a goat not eat?” If you write with a five-pointed pen, there will be five ‘A’s’. How is that possible [sambhava]?
AM: The theoretical meaning [tatwika artha] of this is that, when he lost his mana in the pancha mahabhuta, he was — At that time when he was writing in an angry mood [ragara rasa], then he was writing with the lead pen. When he was writing ‘jamaka’, when he speaks jamaka [joking exchanges; in grammar books there is a chapter on joking exchanges], joking things [majalia jinisa; e.g. as grandparents and grandchildren joke] [there is a traditional way of writing jamaka, joking verbal exchanges; this is one of the traditional arts that Achyutananda had mastered]. At that time he was writing with his copper [tamra] pen. Like this, everything was written according to his feeling [bhaba anusare].
MM: This is a very wonderful thing [ascharya (wonderful, astonishing) janaka katha]. Aagyan, people from outside Orissa do not know about this.
AM: No, Aagyan. I am telling you my experience in Nepal. There are many people in Nepal who are fond of malika [malika priya loka]. Yes, Aagyan.
MM: There must be some in Delhi.
AM: I have not gone to Delhi. I am not telling about Delhi. but in Nepal I saw the rickshaw ballas. We went in a rickshaw. We were going in a rickshaw, we are going to Ganduki to bring Salagrama. When we were going to Ganduki, I sat down and sang malika. When I sang malika, the rickshaw walla brought out a book [gote bohi bahara]. My malika tallied [mela khauchi; mela, fair, gathering] with [sathire]. He then asked, where did you get it. [. . .] This is said in our book here.
MM: Is Ganduki river flowing near the Mahadev temple? Is it flowing on that side?
AM: No, no.
MM: That is not?
AM: That is not Ganduki. Ganduki is 80 kilometers from Nepal, in the jungle.