How can Brahman, which is eternal, assume form?

[Guest guest]

 

Well at least I made you sigh.

Q: ETERNAL Brahman how did you become a Hog?

A: It is only Maya. I am ETERNAL.

 

....................................................................................................

 

You need to ask yourself very seriously that if you God [not small God we're talking the biggie] Then Maya CANNOT cover you since your Eternal.

Well, nice dodge again there. Why don't you stop trying to attack me and just try to have a grown up conversation here? Tell me how the scripture I quoted is supporting your veiw of Dvaita Dvaita-advaita or whatever (you never answered as to weather or not your an ISKCON member).

 

I'm not a Buddhist. I know about Buddhism, and there's alot in it that I can agree with. But the predominent veiw with modern Buddhists I have met is that there is no Self, though IMO the classical Buddhist veiw is that it doesn't matter weather there is a Self or not. I however, belive that nothing but Self exists. It's not void, it's full. You get it?

 

Oh and even Krsna say's He is covered in Maya in the Gita.

 

"I am formless, but the foolish think I have form.

They do not understand my real nature.

I am coverd by maya, and all do not see me.

I am bithless and deathless.

This world of illusion does not understand me."

 

~Krsna, Bhagavad-gita 7.24, 25

 

So there you go, eternal AND covred in Maya, this is only Vedanta. So either step up and explain why your veiws go against scripture, or stop acting like you know something.

 

 

Jaya Shiva Omkaraa

Jaya Hara Shiva Omkaraa

Brahma Vishnu Sadashiva

Hara Hara Hara Mahadev

 

OM! Shanti!

[Guest guest]

 

Buddisum is classed as being in the three modes of material natures, namely ignorance. Mayavada and Shankracharya and affliliates. To say God can be covered by Ignorance comes under the catergory of modes of nature. Bas. Jaya Prabhupada!

"I am formless, but the foolish think I have form.

They do not understand my real nature.

I am coverd by maya, and all do not see me.

I am bithless and deathless.

This world of illusion does not understand me."

 

~Krsna, Bhagavad-gita 7.24, 25

 

Lol, go read the Gita again Prabhu Pankaja!

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

God is covered by Maya?

[Guest guest]

 

God is covered by Maya?

That's what it says.

[Guest guest]

Or are you going to disbelieve the Gita?

[Nataraja 0]

Dear Pankajaka_Dasa,

 

what do you mean with:

 

 

Buddisum is classed as being in the three modes of material natures, namely ignorance.

Who classified Buddhism in that way? And can you give me statements of shruti or smriti, which classifiing Bhuddhism in the same way? Sure not. It's nothing more than antibuddhistic phrases of people, who are not able to use their mind!

What in detail is tamas of buddhistic thinking?

And which philosophy is telling us, that God can be covered by Ignorance?

If you know that, give me details from these scriptures.

What's your oppinion for the quotet Upanishad-text here?

 

Greez

 

Nataraja

[Nataraja 0]

Hari Om Pankaja_Dasa,

 

You didn't give me answers of my questions in my last post:

 

Why is this Buddism? Which kind of Bhuddism? What do you have against Bhuddism?

And how would you say something about an exsisting thing, which is beyond every form of perception?

I'm waiting for bonafide answers.

 

Greez

 

Nataraja

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

 

I am coverd by maya, and all do not see me.

naham prakasah sarvasya

yoga-maya-samavrtah

mudho ’yam nabhijanati

loko mam ajam avyayam

"I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am unborn and infallible."

 

Krishna says "I do not manifest for the unintelligent, for them I am covered from view by my yoga-maya." Yoga-maya is the Lord's spiritual potency. Nowhere does Krishna say he is covered by trigunatmika maya. Rather he says the opposite:

 

daivi hy esha guna-mayi

mama maya duratyaya

mam eva ye prapadyante

mayam etam taranti te

 

"This divine maya of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."

 

The Shvetashvatara Upanishad (4.10) states:

 

mayam tu prakritim vidyan mayinam tu maheshvaram

 

The supreme controller is the magician behind maya.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Or are you going to disbelieve the Gita?

Yes. I will disbelieve entire Vedas for such a dumb philosophy. If God can come into Maya then there is No God.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Who classified Buddhism in that way?

 

I don't understand your question, Buddisum says The Universe is eternal. But then it says we are not. Mayavadi says the same thing. We are Eternal but also not. It's same ball park, like they say in U.S.A.

[Guest guest]

For Pankaj dasa all the other so-called Vaishnavas on this board that derive pleasure promoting the false notion that Advaita is covered Buddhism. Read the following for your apparent lack of knowledge.

 

ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/ew27155.htm

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

Advaita is covered ignorance. Mode of Goodness. It's not transendental. Just like Jndas said Krishna is covered by Yoga-Maya. Maya cannot touch God.

[Nataraja 0]

Dear Pankaja_Dasa,

 

 

I don't understand your question, Buddisum says The Universe is eternal.

Never! No Buddhist would tell you, that there is something, which is eternal. There is no eternal substance. Buddhists tell you, that everything in this universe is a combination of the five skandhas (rupa, vedana, samjna, samskara vijnana). And no combination of these five skandas is able to be eternal. It's against each logic: Nothing, which have a beginning moment, can be eternal.

The so called mayavadis don't tell such things too. For the so called mayavadis and for the most buddhist schools the universe is not real, because this universe don't have substance. How can a thing without subtance - a thing, which is not svabhava - be eternal?

The only thing, which is eternal in this universe is the foolishness of people, and therefore you will never find a moment in time whithout an universe. But remember: The universe you can see at one moment, is different from a universe at another moment. The wheel of samsara is never stopping. But the turning of this wheel is never real!

 

Greez

 

Nataraja

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

I shall go now. I said what I wanted to say.

God can never be covered with Maya.

===

Nataraja

Buddists say in their doctrine the Universe is Eternal, but they cannot reconsile why everything is dying at every moment. If they say the Universe is Temporary their whole doctrine is finished. In the same way Advaitins or Mayavadis say the Universe is Eternal, but they also cannot reconsile how they came into Maya. After all how can God be covered by Maya?

Krishna says- Bg.7.14: This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.

==============================================

[Nataraja 0]

And again dear Pankaja_dasa,

 

 

Advaita is covered ignorance.

can you say why? Can you give me an example for your statement. But a good example and not a primitive phrase without any reasons.

 

 

Mode of Goodness. It's not transendental. Just like Jndas said Krishna is covered by Yoga-Maya. Maya cannot touch God.

Not Jndas said this. The shastras said this!

 

Greez

 

Nataraja

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

Advaita is covered ignorance.

 

can you say why? Can you give me an example for your statement. But a good example and not a primitive phrase without any reasons.

Look I don't need to go on so much since it's Kali-yuga and we are all almost like Sudras. I am repeating myself over and over again like a parrot. If a doctrine establishes God can become covered by Maya, then it is Mayavada. What exactly am I meant to be saying?

[Nataraja 0]

 

Buddists say in their doctrine the Universe is Eternal, but they cannot reconsile why everything is dying at every moment.

Which buddhists? The Mahayanis? The Theravadins? Whicj doctrin? The doctrin of sarvastivadins? The doctrin of the Paudgalavadins? Do you really know, what are you speaking of?

They cannot reconsile why everything is dying at every moment? Sure? Did you ever read texts of Abhidharma-schools? Do you know Nagarjuna? Do you know, what's real?

 

 

If they say the Universe is Temporary their whole doctrine is finished.

Why? Which doctrine?

 

In the same way Advaitins or Mayavadis say the Universe is Eternal, but they also cannot reconsile how they came into Maya.

The Veda - Rig-Veda X; 129, gives you the answer: "Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation? The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?"

 

Nobody can tell you how or why or in which mode or in which way the One was divide into two. That's the blind spot in every philosophy of this world. Neither Platon nor Plotinos, neither Shankara nor Shri Gauranga, neither Hindus, nor Buddhists can tell you this. What will you say about something, which is not this and not that? Na iti na iti!

 

Greez

 

Nataraja

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Why? Which doctrine?

Philosophy. = Doctrine.

I rather use my commen sence... then read Bhagavad-gita As It Is.

[Nataraja 0]

Dear Pankaja_Dasa,

 

you're like a parrot of a very intelligent brahmin. You repeat evry sentence of the holy brahmin, but you don't know, what you are saying. There is only a noise comming over your lips, but no meaning.

God gave you a mind, so use it!

 

For you a nice verse from Rig-Veda (RV I; 164; 39):

 

ṛco akṣare parame vyoman yasmin devā adhi viśve niṣeduḥ |

yastan na veda kiṃ ṛcā kariṣyati ya it tad vidusta ime samāsate ||

Upon what syllable of holy praise-song, as were their highest heaven, the Gods repose them,--

Who knows not this, what will he do with praise-song? But they who know it well sit here assembled.

Greez

 

Nataraja

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

you're like a parrot of a very intelligent brahmin. You repeat evry sentence of the holy brahmin, but you don't know, what you are saying. There is only a noise comming over your lips, but no meaning.

God gave you a mind, so use it!

 

I'm just making my point.

I could quote Sastra. When I do and start doing it, then hold on to your Dhoti. Hear from Krishna devotee...

[Nataraja 0]

Sorry, but I won't read the Gita as it is, because this translation is the badest I've ever hold in my hands.

Maybe this translation is good for a special group af vaishnavas, but this book is not the Bhagavad-Gita. It's the Bhagavad-Gita-how-Shrila-Prbhupada-understands-ist, but not the Gita as it is. Sorry for this harsh words.

and now I'm waiting for answers. Your answer: philosophy = doctrine says what?

Can you give me the name of the school or the name of a scripture, which tells us such things like: Universe is eternal...?

and which Buddhists do you mean: Theravadins? Mahayanis? Vajrayanis?

Ca it be, that you never read buddhistic sutras or buddhistic scriptures? And then you judge about the buddhists? Is this the vaishnava-way? I don't think!

 

Greez

 

Nataraja

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Maybe this translation is good for a special group af vaishnavas

Well. Since we don't accept God can become a HOG. We like to read Scripture which says we are Not God.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Can you give me the name of the school or the name of a scripture, which tells us such things like: Universe is eternal...?

 

Excuse me but have you lost your commen sense? Advaitins and Mayavadis says God is Eternal. If God is Eternal then this Universe is Eternal. But since we seeing people being blown up in Train Stations, I am inclined to think maybe it is temporary.

So Buddisum, Advaita, Mayavada its all the same. Just different analogies. Srila Prabhupada has gave Bhagavad-gita As It Is for people who want to become devotee of Krishna.

If you don't like it that is your business I guess, I doubt you even studied it. People with Egos usually read something once then say 'it is not so good'. Maybe you should try to read and understand it. If you accept Krishna as a conditioned soul in Maya, what the hell are you reading Gita for?

Buddisum teaches about becoming 'one with the void'. Mayavada teaches to become 'one with Brahman.'

Both are nonsence. Read Gita from Parampara of Madhva.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

I don't see this thread going anywhere positive, and am considering to close it. If you really want it kept open let me know.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

I don't see this thread going anywhere positive, and am considering to close it. If you really want it kept open let me know.

 

Close it. I made my point a million times. Mahaprabhu used commen sence to beat Mayavadis and Impersonalists, because being athiests they are devoid of commen sence. Haribol