Why did Bhaktisar Maharaj leave

[Guest guest]

I was just wondering why he has left Narayan Maharaj. I have known him since his ISKCON days. All the sanyassi know but they are not saying a thing. Even though I should not care I cannot help myself. There should be no secrets. We as devotees should remember the bad old days of ISKCON in the 80's when the leaders were all keeping secrets which lead to a mass exodus of devotees who could not trust their leaders.

 

Jaye Radhe

 

From a Devotee Of Krishna

[Guest guest]

"We as devotees should remember the bad old days of ISKCON in the 80's when the leaders were all keeping secrets which lead to a mass exodus of devotees who could not trust their leaders."

 

I don't know that keeping secrets was the cause for the mass exodus. Perhaps in some instances, secrets were kept in order to prop each other up so as to appear to be in "good standing" within Iskcon. This wouldn't apply in Maharaja's case, since he left of his own accord. I believe he left behind his danda too, not sure. Perhaps those who know the details of his departure wish to avoid any prajalpa or criticism. Perhaps there is still a chance he may return, and wish not to cause him any embarrassment.

 

Bhaktisar Maharaja comes from a very wealthy family, as you may know, and they do not appear to be very favorable towards devotees. Perhaps this played a role?

 

Let us hope and pray that he returns to the association of devotees very quickly.

 

ys,

rs das

[Guest guest]

Guest: "I was just wondering why he has left Narayan Maharaj. I have known him since his ISKCON days. All the sanyassi know but they are not saying a thing. Even though I should not care I cannot help myself. There should be no secrets."

 

He had three reasons for leaving which had to do with problems in that sanga. You'll have to ask him what they are. As for all the sannyasis knowing and not saying, it may be that one or more of those reasons reflects poorly on some of them.

[Guest guest]

"As for all the sannyasis knowing and not saying, it may be that one or more of those reasons reflects poorly on some of them."

 

Or him. There was some financial incentive from his Dad to leave. He was regularly paying taxes while living as a sannyasi, which doesn't sound very conducive for practicing bhajana within the renounced order. I will leave it at that.

 

If he were simply leaving due to "problems within the sanga", then it would make more sense that he would be associating with another sanga, or living very simply underneath a tree somewhere, not giving up his ashram to return to material life.

 

Also, most people who remember him from Iskcon can share numerous stories about his highly aggressive nature. There was still some of that left, which created some friction, although to his credit he had mellowed out some with age.

 

ys,

rs das

[stonehearted 0]

Guest: "Or him. There was some financial incentive from his Dad to leave."

 

The financial incentive has probably always been there. The last I heard, he was stayiing with his brother in Virginia. I'm not sure what bearing that may have on his plans for service.

 

G: "If he were simply leaving due to "problems within the sanga", then it would make more sense that he would be associating with another sanga, or living very simply underneath a tree somewhere, not giving up his ashram to return to material life."

 

Well, from what I've heard, those problems are there. There may be other factors, of course. It's not clear to me what his relationship is with the sannyasa ashram, although I have heard indications he has left it.

 

G: "Also, most people who remember him from Iskcon can share numerous stories about his highly aggressive nature. There was still some of that left, which created some friction, although to his credit he had mellowed out some with age."

 

He definitely seemed to have mellowed. I last saw him and Aranya (now Prema-prayojana) last June, and I was impressed with their mood and enthusiasm for preaching. They had some ideas I found inspiring, and I was looking forward to seeing what they'd come up with.

 

Anyway, I would second the earlier suggestion that anyone who wants to know why he left and what he's up to find out how to contact him. Otherwise, this will degenerate very quickly into gossip about him and/or Narayana Maharaja's group, which will serve no one well.

[Guest guest]

http://www.humblegifts.org/bvbhaktisar/

[stonehearted 0]

Yes.

[Guest guest]

As a disiciple of Srila Narayana Maharaja for over a decade, I have first hand experience of the changes within my Gurudeva's institution. At first it was great, then after Gurudeva first western tour many devotees with Iskcon backgrounds came and brought with them the worst aspects of Iskconism with them.

 

These devotees from Iskcon backgrounds are now in management positions and running things with an iron fist. If you disagree with their management style, you are called an offender. The politics is very off putting. The sanga is so weird and strange that I have difficulty advising people to associate with that group.

 

There is a cloud of fundamentalism around Srila Gurudeva's sanga which is stirred up by immature western fanatics.

 

I predict that when my Gurudeva leaves this world, the management devotees will begin fighting over who is Gurdeva's real successor. The management publically look as though they are bosom buddies, but in reality there are several groups jocking for position, and their squabbling is well know.

 

There is much debate about Srila Gurudeva's books being sold on the street. Some intelligent devotees are questioning selling books such as Bhakti rasaamrta sindhu bindu to the public on the street. These books are difficult for mature devotees to understand never mind a member of the public.

 

Srila Gurudeva's sanga is making all the same mistakes as Iskcon did in the 70's and 80's. Whilst I not a big fan of Iskcon I applaud their attempts to address their past.

 

I believe that both Sagar Maharaja and Anranya Maharaja "left" sannyasa because they disagree with "the management" and they way the management are running things....

 

I don't care what happens in my Gurudeva's instition as I have devotion to his lotus feet. I take comfort in something he once said in Wales:

 

"If an institution interfers with your bhakti then burn the institution down"

 

Great advise....

[Guest guest]

Opps! I wrote the article above. I should have said Bhaktisar Maharaja not Sagar Maharaja (Sorry!)

[Kulapavana 0]

"I have first hand experience of the changes within my Gurudeva's institution. At first it was great, then after Gurudeva first western tour many devotees with Iskcon backgrounds came and brought with them the worst aspects of Iskconism with them.

 

These devotees from Iskcon backgrounds are now in management positions and running things with an iron fist. If you disagree with their management style, you are called an offender. The politics is very off putting. The sanga is so weird and strange that I have difficulty advising people to associate with that group.

 

There is a cloud of fundamentalism around Srila Gurudeva's sanga which is stirred up by immature western fanatics."

 

--------------------------

 

interesting observation. as an outsider I know nothing about the subject matter. can anyone else from HH Narayana Maharaja group confirm this view?

 

[Guest guest]

The guest who posted describing the management system in HH Narayana Maharaja's camp is correct.

 

I know a few of his old time disciples who are disgruntled with the leaders of HH Narayana Maharaja's camp. The leaders, those that make corparate decisions, around twenty devotees, all come from Iskcon backgrounds.

 

Most of these devotees live in the devotee counter-culture bubble, and promote ideas which are very outdated. Any attempt to promote new and refreshing ways of preaching are frowned upon.

 

Monies that are donated to HH Narayana Maharaja are controlled by a select group within the leadership group, but no public accounts are showed to the larger sanga. Some disicples will not donate money as a result of this. There is a lack of trust.

 

Many projects can be vetoed by this select group, with bizzare reasons given for the veto.

 

The leaders are also planning to publish thousands of books such as Sri Bhakti Tattva Viveka, Sri Venu Gita, Manah Sikha to the general public at parking lots and on the streets. These books are not easy reading for some devotees, because of the high and technical language used in these books. Now imagine a member of the public trying to read these books. They won't be able to understand them so the books will end up in the garbage with the person feeling cheated.

 

When this was pointed out to the leaders at a management meeting, one leader said that they (the public) could look at the pictures inside the books. He went on to say that these books were time bombs. Time bombs, in that, at some point in time the lucky member of the public by Krishna's grace will understand the siddhanta in the book they were sold on the street. The leader was serious!

 

 

The most remarkable thing about these old time disciples of HH Narayana Maharaja is their strong devotion in their Gurudeva.

[Guest guest]

"can anyone else from HH Narayana Maharaja group confirm this view?"

 

I can't, but then, I probably don't travel to and from India and the Festivals as much as other members. From my rather naive vantage point, I am not aware of any GBC or beaurocratic type of setup for management. So, I am quite surprised to hear this from a direct disciple of Srila Gurudeva. Which "leaders" is he speaking of? There are very few Temples, which means very few Temple Presidents. Most of the Prabhupada disciples who joined the mission were attracted by Srila Gurudeva's quality of sweetness, and based upon my (rather limited) experience, they imbibed that mood of sweetness themselves, thus I am somewhat stumped as to whom those "Western fanatics" are which this disciple speaks about.

 

This disciple states: "I don't care what happens in my Gurudeva's institution as I have devotion to his lotus feet." If it doesn't bother him what is (allegedly) happening, then why even bring it up in a forum where there are those who are bitterly opposed to his Gurudeva and who will most likely use this information (hazy as it is) to commit offenses against the Sanga, which includes his own Gurudeva.

 

The Prabhupada disciples I keep in contact with are not in any leadership positions. They have been straightforward with me whenever there have been some problems, but in any large mission, there are going to be problems from time to time. The only "western fanatics" that I know of (and they are few) are fairly young and are ones who have joined the mission within the last 10 years or so. So, my perspective seems to be at odds with this other disciple of Srila Gurudeva. However, being that the sanga is quite large, perhaps it simply depends upon whom you associate with.

 

I would be curious to learn more, but being as this is probably not the appropriate place to obtain a fair and balanced overview of any problems connected with the sanga, I prefer instead to ask around personally, or via email.

 

Stonehearted prabhu lives in Hawaii, and knows many disciples of Srila Gurudeva, and knows Srila Gurudeva personally, (who has been visiting Hawaii the past few weeks), and probably knows far more than me about any problems. His mood seems to parallel mine, however, in that if we attempt to discuss these topics in front of a broad audience, most likely it will degenerate into a war of offenses.

 

Just my lowly opinion, for what it's worth.

 

ys,

rs das

[Guest guest]

I find this post interesting. I believe that two sannyasis in Narayana Maharaja's sanga left their sannyasa positions, Sripad BV Anranya Maharaja and Sripad BV Bhaktisar Maharaja. Isn't it strange that two sannyasis leave their ashrama around the same time as each other?

 

I feel somewhat sympatheic towards our "iron fist" guest, as I witnessed the fanatism of Narayana Maharaja's followers at Ratha Yatra two years ago in London.

[Guest guest]

How accountable are Hare Krishna orgainsations to their members when it comes to donations to the organisation?

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Maharaja is in Uk [birmingham].! He is Temple President [i think that is what the position is called]. Hope to meet soon. In future.

[stonehearted 0]

Guest: "I find this post interesting. I believe that two sannyasis in Narayana Maharaja's sanga left their sannyasa positions, Sripad BV Anranya Maharaja and Sripad BV Bhaktisar Maharaja. Isn't it strange that two sannyasis leave their ashrama around the same time as each other?"

 

I don't find it strange at all. They were travelling and working as a team and were on the same page with regard to several issues. When I met with them in Hilo in June, they had plans for travelling widely and preaching to a broad range of audiences. They planned to make their preaching very progressive and liberal (their words), with an eye to building bridges among the various missions. This seemed to be a new approach for their mission, and for them in particular (Aranya had developed a reputation for polarizing communities). I found their plans intriguing and appealing. I was very disappointed when I heard the turn they took a few weeks later.

[stonehearted 0]

Pankaja: "Maharaja is in Uk [birmingham].! He is Temple President."

 

I would be astounded if that were true. The reports I have are that he has married and is preaching (on his own, I believe) in Eastern Europe somewhere.

 

If you look at the roster of preachers at purebhakti.com, you'll find that both Aranya and Bhaktisar no longer appear there. I was surprised only that they remained there for so many months after leaving.

[Kulapavana 0]

"The reports I have are that he has married and is preaching (on his own, I believe) in Eastern Europe somewhere."

------------------------

 

sounds like a nice turn of events. whatever your situation might be, just serve the mission of Lord Caitanya... it is really that simple.

 

I find many sannyasis (especially the younger ones) on severe ego trips. They take sannyas for material reasons at a young age and then cant keep their wows or develop all kinds of "mysterious" health problems.... what a friggin surprise... just be honest, humble and USEFUL to the Mission and things will fall in place properly...

[gHari 0]

Hare Krsna,

 

Speaking of agents on the outside of the circle trying to draw Caitanya's servants together, here is a pleasant half hour listen in which Bhagavan Maharaja and Srila Hrdyananda Goswami meet with Srila Narayana Maharaja in LA in 2000. One almost gets the impression that one day, with Sri Krsna in the centre, the fatwas will be set aside and we will stop acting like big girls:

 

<a href=http://gvnn.org/20000531LA_Hiridananda_Maharaja_Bagavan_das_meet_Narayana_Maharaja.wma>Saner Heads Prevail</a>

 

gHari

 

[Guest guest]

"At first it was great, then after Gurudeva first western tour many devotees with Iskcon backgrounds came and brought with them the worst aspects of Iskconism with them."

 

I wish the best for Srila Narayan Maharaj's group however have noticed that his disciples obsess over Iskcon. They are always willing to criticize Iskcon. Now even when they have problems it is not due to their own selves, but rather because Iskcon has infected them in some manner. This is ridiculous.

 

What ever problems are present in Narayan Maharaj's group are owned by them alone.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

To Babhu Prabhu:

Sorry it was Sripad BV Ashram Maharaja I wanted to mention, should have checked what I was talking about.

 

site Narayana Maharaja:

The Math in Birmingham will be under the competent and suitable direction of Sripad BV Ashram Maharaja [Jan 2006 Newletter]

 

Ghari

Speaking of agents on the outside of the circle trying to draw Caitanya's servants together, here is a pleasant half hour listen in which Bhagavan Maharaja and Srila Hrdyananda Goswami meet with Srila Narayana Maharaja in LA in 2000. One almost gets the impression that one day, with Sri Krsna in the centre

 

 

Do you know if one of the devotees in that Tape is now serving Narayana Maharaja.? I am sure I heard his voice in Jaiva-dharma lectures.

[gHari 0]

I think at least one voice on the tape was a disciple at the time. I've only heard it twice, but plan to hear it many more times. The part of Bhagavan Maharaja was played by Harrison Ford.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

When I heard it I was sort of shocked. The truthfullness in it is amazing. No holds barred, everything laid on the table. Almost like Vaishnava's Uncut. Just seems like a big misunderstanding. The Angel that speaks [syamarani dasi] is my fav part. In the end it all works out.

[Guest guest]

Haribol

 

Can i know more about the Maharaja, i heard he is very severe.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

I will let you know. Hare Krishna. I suspect you have never been to Birmingham UK. You may need to be severe.! [That is joke, I am sure He is very quafied, since NM said this Uk Matha is the most important of all in Uk].