Hridayananda maharaja's latest article

[Guest guest]

 

Whose talking about modern day usage? We are interested in the definitions mentioned in shastra. I haven't seen any shastric reference limiting its definition of this word as you do. On the contrary, most definitions are quite broad and can refer to any type of impotent man, or even celibates who voluntarily refrain from indulging with the opposite sex. In the Brahma-vaivarta Purana, Krsna Himself, as Mohini-murti, defines a "eunuch" as any man who refuses a women during her fertile period. How broad a definition is that!

 

Also, that was never Srila Prabhupada's definition of "napumsaka." His definition was "eunuch," which he admitted was vague and unclear. In other places, Srila Prabhupada clearly defines homosexuals as "impotent"--clearly falling under the "napumsaka" category.

 

I think the "Sabda-kalpa-druma" definitions are clearly authoritative, unless you have any other evidence to present besides modern usage or wishful opinion.

[Guest guest]

 

Just because a practice is mentioned as "natural" for the third sex in shastra doesn't mean it is necessarily allowed in regulative spiritual life. Clearly it is not. It seems like you are trying to put words in GALVA's mouth.

 

GALVA fully accepts all of Srila Prabhupada's teachings, including his definition of licit sex as being for procreation only.

 

 

In terms of the third sex being being unattached to the opposite sex, less likely to have children and engage in family life, etc., the practical evidence speaks for itself. Many gay and lesbian people are naturally attracted to religion, spiritual life, and renunciation. That's just one of the positive advantages of being third-gender. Anyone familiar with the gay and lesbian community will know this.

 

The tradition of third-gender community members offering blessings at auspicious functions is a very old one in India. Srila Prabhupada, Jagannatha Misra, and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself recognized it.

 

It sounds like you are just trying to paint a negative, demoniac portrait of gay and lesbian people, and exclude them from any positive qualities or representations.

[Guest guest]

 

Everyone knows that gays make the best pujaris! Of course they must be strictly following all the rules and regulations, just like everyone else.

[Guest guest]

 

Not only was Srila Sridhara Maharaj strict on the lady.

If his pujaris even wrote to ladies with infatuation, he would dissmiss them from their service to the deities. Such was his standard of purity he considered nessacary to bathe dress and attend their Lordships. I mean after all the real conception of diety worship is inconceivable to our western materially conditioned minds. They are Male and Female and this service demands the uttmost purity in mind, body and spirit, not to be taken lightly.

Also there was one German sanyas disciple that was found to have homosexual leanings who was immediately expelled from His service to the line of Sri Caitanya Saraswat math.

 

--

 

yes I was there for that too.

 

he was a german, and disciple of Srila Prabhupada who took sannyasa from Guru Maharaj. He was ousted.

 

 

Prabhupada had a different policy with Gay devotees. There were a handful of sannyasis, leaders of the movement, who were Gay and Prabhupada knew about it because people told him. He didn't do anything about it at all. Also Prabhupada's first two disciples were Gay. One of which was Hayagriva who was Prabhupada's right hand man at the very beginning of Iskcon, getting the Gita published and edited, and getting the temple, etc. Another Gay disciple who Prabhupada knew was Gay has donated large amounts of money and Prabhupada was very close to him. Prabhupada did not have a problem with Gay disciples, he didn't have a problem with anyone unless they were causing problems, and even then Prabhupada was extremely lenient with them. That was his mood.

 

Sridhar Maharaja clearly has a different mood. He was much more strict and old fashioned then Prabhupada when it came to what he would tolerate in his temples. Are women allowed to do in the SCM what Prabhupada allowed them to do in Iskcon?

 

As for the "third sex" debate, I would hardly think it is appropriate to argue that Gays are traditionally able to give blessings just because they are Gay. JNdas is correct. In India today the Hijra's carry on that tradition and if they are to considered real, they get castrated. This is in order to be accepted into the Hijra society which makes it's living off of giving blessings and prostitution. Clearly this is a deviation from the ancient tradition in order to make money.

 

I think you do a disservice to Gays if you try and argue that they should be seen as special and able to give benedictions. Gays should be treated and respected in the manner you would treat anyone else. I think Sridhar Maharaja has a standard like he does because of the traditional Sahajia movement which revels in homosexual behavior and which gave Gaudiyaism a bad name for many years. So it would appear he is extra strict because of that. Prabhupada never did anything about the Gays in Iskcon, top leaders were Gay and he knew it.

[Guest guest]

 

I suspect there is more to these stories than is being told. For instance, if the pujari was "found to have homosexual leanings," then it sounds like he must have been engaged in some type of improper behavior. Similarly, the lesbian lady might have been unruly, challenging or something like that.

 

In any case, I've heard that Srila Sridhara Maharaja was very conservative and of course he was also preaching many years ago in India. In terms of a current context, I feel Srila Prabhupada's example of inclusiveness for gays and lesbians, as well as Srila Narayana Maharaja's, sets a much more appropriate and relevant example.

[theist 1]

 

Everyone knows that gays make the best pujaris! Of course they must be strictly following all the rules and regulations, just like everyone else.

 

 

Yet another fairy tale. The best pujaris are the pure hearted followers who naturally adhere to all the rules and regulations.

[theist 1]

I have no understanding of word meanings, etomology or any of that stuff. But I do remember an article from the past on Chakra by Hridayananda that was in complete agreement with what JNdas had been saying. I just went to their archive to try and find it and it is not there or I missed it.

 

Anyone know what I am speaking of? Got a copy?

[theist 1]

 

In terms of the third sex being being unattached to the opposite sex, less likely to have children and engage in family life, etc., the practical evidence speaks for itself. Many gay and lesbian people are naturally attracted to religion, spiritual life, and renunciation. That's just one of the positive advantages of being third-gender. Anyone familiar with the gay and lesbian community will know this.

 

 

It's obvious why they are "renounced" to family life,they can't have kids. And if they are renounced why are they petitioning for homo marriage and the right to adopt?

[Guest guest]

 

August 10 1983

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: A new disease, coming. What?

 

Devotee: One is herpes.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Hippy...?

 

Devotee: Herpes, it is a new disease.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: What is its symptom?

 

Devotee: Deterioration of the cells, body is rotting; and this is communicated by illicit sex. And another one now...

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: In Bombay, that gentlemen, encouraging illicit sex?

 

Devotee: Oh yes, Bhagavan Rajanesh.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: They should catch him and put into jail.

 

Devotee: ....Another disease now is called AIDS that means acquired immune deficiency syndrome. That disease is communicated by homosexual activities, and also by putting injection of heroin, and different drugs into the... by giving injection with the needle, that disease is being communicated. Hundreds of people are dying every month, becoming epidemic proportions.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: What is the second disease? I don't follow.

 

Devotee: AIDS. Acquired immune deficiency syndrome. Means, in the body there are some antibodies they are fighting disease white blood cells; so...

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: White corpuscles, red corpuscles...

 

Devotee: So, by this disease, even a cold, even the flu, any minor illness can produce death, because there is no system to fight that disease; that system is breaking down. And this disease is also communicated by illicit activities like homosexual activities and injection.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Homosexual, what is homosexual?

 

Devotee: Two men making...

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Man and man.

Devotee: Man and man or ladies and ladies, like that.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: ladies...........

 

Devotee: Now so many people are doing like that in America.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Man and man somehow it's known, but women and women, how it is possible their sexual activity? Both negative.

 

Vidagda Madhava: Yes, something different.

 

Devotee: That's not so wide spread, but man and man...

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: That is I'm told, that is in the foreign part, not in India.

 

Devotees: Yes

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Not in India.

 

Devotee: Mostly in New York City, and San Francisco.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: But how it is possible, we can't follow?

 

Devotee: I also, we don't understand.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Women and women. Something inconceivable. Artificial, eh?

 

Devotee: But people are dying now, every month hundreds of people are dying.

 

Vidagda Prabhu: And because of these diseases...

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: So many diseases they are all physical, of the surface; main disease is forgetfulness of the center, of Krishna, the Lord, the guardian. Disobedience to the natural guardian, that is the route of all. (Bengali: krsna upadeshe jiva anadi pe...) Mahaprabhu gave the diagnosis, jivera svarupa hoy krishnera nitya das, his constitutional position is a slave to the Lord Krishna, the beautiful. Krishna buli sei jivana, from time immemorial he has lost that memory in any way, and suffering

 

(sanskrit: ateh maya tare daya samsara)

 

So misconception is the root of all his misery. This body is material; the disease in the body is all in the mind, mind is the source of everything, impure mind. Encasement; first the mental casement in illusion and disobediance to the Lord's will, then this flesh encasement. This material life is not at all necessary for our life proper. This is the outer effect of the inner mental system which is composed of many variegated desires, fleeting desires. I want this, I want that, all unnecessary. Filled up with unnecessary articles. The ego must be dissolved.

 

bhidyate hridaya-granthish

chidyante sarva-samshayah

kshiyante chasya karmani

mayi drishti akhilatmani

 

[rand0M aXiS 0]

Yet another fairy tale.

 

 

 

LOL! Very punny, theist!

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Here is a part of Hridayananda Maharaja's letter:

Trtiya-prakrti

 

The Sanskrit term trtiya-prakrti means “third nature.” It does not literally mean “third sex.” We do not find in any known Vedic literature the term “third sex.”

 

The term trtiya-prakrti refers to a eunuch, or to a sexless status. It does not refer to homosexuality or to a homosexual. Thus Monier-Williams, in the standard Sanskrit dictionary, explains that trtiya-prakrti refers to “eunuch” or to “the neuter gender.” We should keep in mind that a sexless eunuch is not necessarily a victim of castration, as we shall see later in our discussion of Arjuna’s pastimes in the kingdom of Virat. The most common Sanskrit word for “eunuch” is kliba. Evidence that this term refers not to homosexuality, but rather to a lack of manliness or male potency, is found in the second chapter of Bhagavad-gita wherein Lord Krishna tells Arjuna:

 

klaibyam ma sma gamah partha!

 

“Do not give in to the quality of kliba (klaibyam)!”

 

Clearly Lord Krishna is not ordering Arjuna not to be a homosexual, but rather not to be unmanly. Thus the Sanskrit dictionary defines kliba as impotent, emasculated, a eunuch; ‘unmanly, timorous, weak, idle, a coward.’

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

 

Whose talking about modern day usage?

 

 

My statement was that not only in vedic usage but even in modern usage the word does not refer to homosexuals, but rather to those born without sexual organs. You seem to read my words in the same manner you read Prabhupada's writings, i.e. ignore what you don't like.

 

Since you make wild claims about definitions of words, which have no traditional bearing nor basis in reality, it is certainly clear you do not know sanskrit and haven't studied it. Aren't you the same person who says "nartaka" refers to homosexuals, when in reality it simpy means dancer? Well if you were brave enough to sign your name we might know.

 

Or maybe you prefer to keep pretending you are someone else, and tell us all about some person named Amara Das who wrote such and such.

 

Would you care to comment why in your book you have altered a quote from Srila Prabhupada and inserted the words "(third sex)" into his quote. He has never said that and has never used those words. It is really dishonest of you to purposely alter his quote in that manner.

We are interested in the definitions mentioned in shastra.

 

 

Rather you aren't interested in definitions at all, as you choose to rewrite the meanings to words that have existed for thousands of years. Be honest, you know little to no sanskrit other than a few words you picked up from reading Prabhupada's books, yet you want to make wild claims about word's definitions pretending everything points to homosexuals.

 

GALVA fully accepts all of Srila Prabhupada's teachings, including his definition of licit sex as being for procreation only.

 

 

Oh, good to know this. So you accept this statement of Srila Prabhupada's:

 

"In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life."

- Prabhupada

[theist 1]

thanks JNdas. Funny I couldn't find it. Must have looked in the wrong place. I am sure Chakra would not have deleted it.

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

Regarding the pujaris in Srila Sridhara Maharajs' Math.

There is no more to it than was mentioned, the point of the point being made is that Once upon a short time ago (no fairy tale) There were vaisnavas who didn't even think of sex, even with women, what to speak of male with male and it was that standard of suddha Bhakti that was applied to serve the Divine Couple.

Srila Bhaktisiddanta who never passed semen in his whole life, came and gathered a circle of very special personalities to re-establish real religious principles that are essential to enter the spiritual world and understand the extraordinary exchanges of divinity that are so infinitly more blissfull than the retarded orgasms coming from the genitalia, that pass for pleasure in this world..

It would do us all well to try to aspire to his pure vani, give it all up! Even tho we are already infected with and conditioned with the disease it will at least re-open our sukriti bank accounts that will eventually afford us a more auspicious birth and then some real estate on the isles of Sweeeetadwip and beyond.

What poor and pathetic causes we campaign for when we could be endeavouring to adjust to the wishes and ways of our zillionaire spiritual forefathers and helping others to do so, not trying to re-invent a system to suit our misidentified false egos, slippin' an' slidin' around the Truth.

Come on Nityananda Prabhu will accomodate every soul if sincere efforts to do Mahaprabhus will, that plays out thru their acharyas, is made.

Oh Father please help us for we know not what we are doing.

[Avinash 0]

JN prabhu, I just don't think you can make up your own definition of what the Vedic/Hindu third sex is, such as limiting it to only intersexed people (without sex organs). No one is ever going to buy that.

 

Ask anybody having knowledge of Sanksrit or even Hindi. Napumsaka means what JN Das has told. The correct English equivalent of napumsaka is not homosexual but eunuch.

[vijay 0]

Yep I meant worship the dieties as pujari if following 4regs and 16rounds

[theist 1]

That's what I thought. I was only seeking a clarification.

 

Jai Nitai!

[theist 1]

This is much worse then being gender confused.

 

 

Would you care to comment why in your book you have altered a quote from Srila Prabhupada and inserted the words "(third sex)" into his quote. He has never said that and has never used those words. It is really dishonest of you to purposely alter his quote in that manner.

 

 

All such books should be burned.

[vijay 0]

I think we should ignore these gay guys who try and justify homosex through scripture, prabhupada was clear on it, we understand sashtra through him, thats not to say we should reject gay guys as prabhupada engaged all, but take none of these nonsense justifications of sinful life seriously, its just like someone who wants to smoke ganga he will use shiva or use the soma stuff the demigods drink and others drank ages ago to justify through word juglery that its okay. Same thing happened with animal slaughter during bhudda's time. Its like others who want to use their wifes as sex machines looking for quotes to justify it knowing at the back of their mind that all this nonsence is binding but trying to justify the stool in thier heart. If the issue is care and compassion for all that come to krishnas temple then thats fine and accepted, but if its justifying homosex through scripture and prabhupada thats nonsence.

 

Actually we shouldnt ignore nonsence as these gay guys have a propaganda machine these days and ignoring it will just make it easier for them to twist the philosophy. Maybe i should change the title

[rand0M aXiS 0]

Not yet published on the Catholic Family News website:

 

During the height of the U.S. homosexual priest sex abuse scandal several years ago, Catholic News Service writer John Thavis revealed the largely unknown fact that in 1961 Pope John XXIII had approved in writing a ban on homosexual ordinations to the priesthood.

 

Thavis said he was told the ban contained in this 1961 document is still in effect. The document was entiltled "Careful Selection and Training of Candidates for the States of Perfection and Sacred Orders", published by the Vatican's Sacred Congregation for Religious. At the time of its publication, the document was referred to by the Sacred Congregation for Religious as "a matter of public law". The ban, as published in The Canon Law Digest, Vol.5, 1963, Bruce Publishing Co., Milwaukee, stated:

 

"Advancement to religious vows and ordinations should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers..." (See also CFN Jn 2002).

 

In the December 17, 2004 edition of the Los Angeles Archdiocesan publication, the Tidings, the same John Thavis revealed, in effect, that a recent Church effort to keep and enforce the 1961 Papal ban had been rejected, and that a revised Vatican draft document, due for release by early fall, 2005, would in effect allow homosexuals to be ordained as Catholic priests.

 

Homosexual Victory Imminent?

 

Unless the revised Vatican draft document is rejected by Pope John Paul II and other Church leaders before its early fall release, it will give a great victory to the strong pro-homosexual faction inside the Cahtholic Church and to the homosexual movement wouldwide. The Catholic Church's apparent "approval" of homosexual priests will create great pressure on other religions to weaken their opposition to ordaining homosexual pastors. It will give the homosexual lifestyle the apparent seal of approval of the Catholic Church, despite any staement to the contrary...

 

Some Bishops Opposed Banning Homosexuals

 

In his April 18, 2003 article, Allen [John Allen, Jr., "All The Pope's Men" author and NCR writer] wrote: "A source close to the drafting process told NCR that the new document regarding seminaries (1961) was 'in deep trouble' in part because some bishops, including some Americans, have raised objections." This source told Allen: "They're saying they don't want to drive the problem underground and make being gay a clandestine thing in the priesthood... They feel it's better to have it out in the open..."

 

In other words, Allen was saying that some Bishops, including some Americans, approve of openly homosexual men in the priesthood. The view of these bishops has prevailed in the most recent draft document, which will soon open the Catholic priesthood to homosexual men including openly homosexual men, unless Catholics and others protest to Pope john Paul II, College of Cardinals members and other bishops around the world, and urge others to protest...

 

...[sidebar to article, pg 16]...

 

Proposed Letter to the Pope

 

Pope John Paul II Apostolic Palace 00120 Vatican City State, Europe

 

Re: Enforce 1961 Papal Ban against admitting homosexuals to priesthood and religious life.

 

Your Holiness:

 

I strongly oppose a new Vatican draft allowing homosexual ordinations scheduled for early fall, 2005. The "closed-door" April 2-5, 2003 symposium on the acceptance of homosexuals to the priesthood and religious life was an outrageous, one-sided, pro-homosexual farce.

 

I strongly urge you to reject this revised Vatican draft admitting homosexuals to ordination. I stongly urge you to support and renew explicilty the ban on all homosexual ordinations approved by Pope John XXIII on January 23, 1961.

 

I will not make financial contributions to any diocesan institution whatsoever if the Vatican allows homosexuals to be ordained.

 

The militant homosexual faction inside the Church is destroying the Church. I urge you to stop this destruction! Please affirm the 1961 ban on homosexual ordinations by your predecessor Pope John XXIII.

 

Thank you and God Bless you.

 

Sincerely, Name, address

 

Also Send to: Papal Secretary Stanislaw Dziwisz Apostolic Palace, 00120 Vatican City State, Europe

 

and to: Josepth Cardinal Ratzinger Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith Piazza del S. Uffizio 11 00193 Rome, Italy

 

[Bhakta Don Muntean 0]

Hare Krishna!

 

"Chuckle" - that's funny Prabhu!

 

We know that when some people cannot step-up to the proper standards - they expect the standards to stoop-down to them.

 

If people struggle with this ‘sexual identity’ issue - it seems that they really are still in - bodily consciousness.

 

Without a doubt homosexuality - is a curse and - the life-style is a sin – and weak people should just quietly do whatever [until they can transcend it] and - not try to push this false identity crisis - in everyone’s face – any gross display of sex-life is well - ‘gross’ – there is so much in the Vedas about this subject?

 

I guess that the GALVA people just want to hang around and take some more births. They must know that NO ONE is factually any of these designations – so why dwell on it – if it enters their mind - one must say “no” - ‘this is what I really am’ [an eternal soul] – whether one is [so-called] homosexual or heterosexual it’s all about - Sexuality VS. Spirituality – Bondage vs. Discipline….

 

Your Servant,

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

GALVA is kali yuga (MAYA) at it's best, striking ISKCON in an around about way at the heart of our regulative principles, in a subtle way, a tricky way, a sensitive way, a sentimental way, a your not being compassionate way, a sly way, an in the back door way, a we deserve better treatment way, a feel sorry for us way, an if you don't except us we'll leave way, a prabhupada had gay disciples so it's alright way, etc etc etc etc etc and the list could go on forever.

 

Prabhupada said in a morning walk lecture, Homo sex is nonsense, so what does that mean that he says something is nonsense and we accept it, what is going on in iskcon, yes prabhupada was merciful to us all but he stood strictly to regulative principles.

 

Prabhupada also said about jesus: THOU SHALL NOT KILL, do you think jesus is stupid and doesn't know the difference between the word murder and kill, if he intended just for humans he would have said murder not kill.

 

So we say do you think Prabhupada was stupid and did not know gay people were in his movement, so why did he not say gay people can get married, did Prabhupada ever marry gay people if no then why should we start now, it's totally rediculous.

 

This gay marriage issue should not even be an issue, what is going on in iskcon, maya is trying to creep in the back door and like cancer or a virus it will spread from compromising a little until were like another mundane religion were anything goes and prabhupada will save us, what nonsense.

 

Posted by J.S das