Hridayananda maharaja's latest article

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Hridayananda Maharaja just released an article trying to explain why he called for ISKCON to accept and appreciate homosexual monogomy (perhaps even marriage). But it is just 11 pages of avoiding the topic, mostly citing unrelated stories from the Mahabharata.

 

Finally on the last page of his article he comes to the point, but unfortunately it isn't a very intelligent conclusion:

 

 

Some people feel that to encourage gay monogamy is to encourage homosexuality. To test this argument, let us apply it to another sinful activity: drug abuse. In fact, there are many sincere Vaishnavas around the world who struggle with some form of substance abuse. If ISKCON follows the example of other religions and offers programs to help faithful members overcome such problems, and if recovering devotees are praised and encouraged when they reduce their use of drugs, does that mean that ISKCON is encouraging, condoning or justifying the use of drugs? Obviously not. Similarly, to encourage devotees who are struggling to regulate, reduce and eliminate sinful sexuality in any form is not to praise or encourage sinful activities. The truth is the opposite: we are praising and encouraging the reduction and gradual elimination of such activities

 

 

What he and all the GALVA supporters can't understand, is that there are no DALVA societies (Drugs and Liquor using Vaishnava Association), nor are there any BALVA (Beef and Lamb eating Vaisnava Associations). No one else tries to promote their vice as a virtue. No one else demands that ISKCON "accept and appreciate" their vice. No ISKCON temple has banned homosexuals from attending the temple programs; no one stops them from chanting in the kirtan; nor from taking prasadam with the other devotees. But they aren't satisfied by mere participation, they want their gay monogomy to be accepted and appreciated by ISKCON through formal recognition.

 

Add this to the bizarre claims they make, such as:

 

1) Homosexuals are spiritually more advanced then heterosexuals because they are aloof from family attachments.

 

2) Homosex was considered natural and not sinful in Vedic culture.

 

And also take into account their claims that sanskrit words such as nartaka in the Bhagavatam mean "homosexual" when the word actually means "dancer" and nothing more.

 

Put this all together and it is clearly a propaganda attempt by the gay agenda to slowly infiltrate ISKCON society and make their lifestyles acceptable and appreciated in Vaishnava circles.

[Kulapavana 0]

"Add this to the bizarre claims they make, such as:

 

1) Homosexuals are spiritually more advanced then heterosexuals because they are aloof from family attachments.

 

2) Homosex was considered natural and not sinful in Vedic culture."

 

1. yes, they are just attached to sex without responsibility and consequences (like raising children)

 

2. even if that is true (natural and not sinful), the same can be said about drug use, yet it is not something accepted by Vaishnavas. should we accept and encourage ganja but not heroin?

 

 

[theist 1]

I find it telling that he is taking a stance for Iskcon that is so obviously diametrically opposed to the founding acarya's very clear thoughts and feelings on homosexual's becoming married by any priest.

 

It seems clear that he is not viewing Iskcon as Prabhupada's Iskcon. But I bet if polled the vast majority of members would say their intention was to join Prabhupada's ISKCON and not Hridayananda's iskcon.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

After carefull consideration I think I shouldn't have been so harsh with BALVA members (Beef and Lamb eating Vaishnava Association). Since they have made a commitment to eat only one type of meat (kind of like monogamy with food), I feel we should accept and appreciate their lifestyle with formal recognition. Maybe our gurus and pujaris can't offer their meals in the temples to the deities, but maybe our devotees can offer their beef and lamb meals just outside the deity alter to the "forest god's" or "mountain spirits" or something. Afterall we don't want to discriminate against their lifestyle, so why shouldn't they also be able to offer their nonvegetarian foods in a formal and appreciable manner in our vaishnava temples?

 

The ultimate injunction of the scriptures is to always remember Krishna and never forget him (ref. Vishnu Purana). So if offering beef and lamb meals to the forest gods and mountain spirits brings BALVA members closer to remembering Krishna, then why not accept it and offer them formal appreciation and recognition in ISKCON?

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

I thought we were all souls?

 

 

[theist 1]

Yes at least the BALVA members have renounced eating just anything on a whimsical basis. They are now regulated in their beef and lamb consumption whereas before they would whimsically consume chicken and fish and whatever other meat that came before them.

 

I wonder what is next, hot pink dhotis for the single ones and then they change to lavender once they are "married".

 

Oh my, what a colorful display iskcon is in for.

[theist 1]

we are all souls. So is the dog who is passing stool in the street. So are the drug addicts. Even the mundane politicians. But the soul is never a homosexual, dog, politician or even a brahminical priest.

 

But we are instructed to relate to each differently. The humble sage who sees with equal vision still deals with a tiger he meets in the forest differently then he does a sadhu in the forest.

[Kulapavana 0]

please allow this bit of humor... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Source: Ananova

Published: May 9, 2005

 

Zoo tempts gay penguins to go straight

 

A German zoo has imported four female penguins from Sweden in an effort to tempt its gay penguins to go straight.

 

 

 

The four Swedish females were dispatched to the Bremerhaven Zoo in Bremen after it was found that three of the zoo's five penguin pairs were homosexual.

 

Keepers at the zoo ordered DNA tests to be carried out on the penguins after they had been mating for years without producing any chicks.

 

It was only then they realised that six of the birds were living in homosexual partnerships.

Heike Kueck said that the zoo hoped to see some baby penguins in the coming months.

 

She said that the birds had been mating for years and one couple even adopted a stone that they protected like an egg.

 

Kueck said that the project has the support of the European Endangered Species Programme because the penguins, which are native to South America, are an endangered species.

 

A biologist will be on hand to monitor the experiment.

 

But introducing the Bremerhaven penguins to their new Swedish friends may not be as successful as hoped after earlier experiments revealed great difficulties in separating homosexual couples.

 

In case they show no interest, the zoo has also flown in two new male penguins "so that the ladies don't miss out altogether", Kueck added.

[theist 1]

 

She said that the birds had been mating for years and one couple even adopted a stone that they protected like an egg.

 

 

 

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kulapavana 0]

yes, you often see that behavior in New York and SF /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[gHari 0]

Up until recently, the PALVA group felt quite at home in ISKCON, hidden by senior officials who were worried about their headcounts, their 'men' - worried about disappointing Srila Prabhupada with soon to be, crashing sodomy gurus. There is some talk that perhaps the pedophile and lecher lobby is slowly creeping back into favour in the temples.

 

[theist 1]

Yeah I have heard the same thing. Old pedophile fake "gurus" are receiving some welcome back. I hope I heard wrong.

[Kulapavana 0]

I'm not surprised. Iskcon is run basically by the same group since the 1980's. they continue to make the same mistakes as well. also, look who is the top GBC man: he was No.2 in New Vrindavan during the darkest days there.

[theist 1]

You must decide for yourself.

 

 

SB 6.7.14: Leaders who have fallen into ignorance and who mislead people by directing them to the path of destruction [as described in the previous verse] are, in effect, boarding a stone boat, and so too are those who blindly follow them. A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. Similarly, those who mislead people go to hell, and their followers go with them.

 

 

[stonehearted 0]

One for jndas: Can you direct me to the places where you find the assertions you mention in your post at the top of this thread, please? I'd like to see them myself.

 

One for Kulapavana: Who's the "top GBC" man to whom you referred, who was #2 at NV? (See how far out of the loop I am? God, I love this island!)

 

Oh--and a comment for Kulapavana: You may want to check that source again about the penguins. I did hear about this (on The Daily Show), but this looks like a source we might hear on Art Bell's (or his wannabe, George Noory's) radio show. (Clue: check the date--a dateline from the future! Cue corny, "hip" bumper music, thunder sound, and ad from CC Radio. . . .)

[Kulapavana 0]

I was referring to HH Devamrita Swami. Many in NV still hold a serious grudge against him (from what I know at least)

 

as to the source of penguin story - I have not checked it closely, but in general, homosexuality among animals is a well documented subject. ...and penguins even look kinda "gay" /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

(no disrespect intended, just a bit of riske' humor)

[Kulapavana 0]

http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/02/020805penguins.htm

 

www.nypost.com/news/weirdbuttrue/weirdbuttrue.htm

 

the penguin story checks out fine (one gay and one straight source listed for reference)

 

sometimes truth is stranger than fiction /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[theist 1]

 

....and penguins even look kinda "gay"

 

 

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Guest guest]

Up until recently, the PALVA group felt quite at home in ISKCON, hidden by senior officials who were worried about their headcounts, their 'men' - worried about disappointing Srila Prabhupada with soon to be, crashing sodomy gurus. There is some talk that perhaps the pedophile and lecher lobby is slowly creeping back into favour in the temples.

 

============

 

I heard from temple devotees in Sydney that Bhavananda is going to Mayapura to oversee the construction of the new temple there. Seems that Ambarisa said he would only give a very large donation if Bhavs was in charge. I don't generally like to believe in conspiracy theories but bringing back bhavananda into a "leading" role really is disgraceful.

-m.das.

 

[Guest guest]

a recent email from bhavananda:

 

from: Bhavananda (das) ACBSP

 

Dear ...., How are you? I am leaving for Bombay on Jan. 22 to help with arrangements for the Prabhupada featival there. Shyamasundar has asked me to be the emcee with Nathji for the festival itself and to help organise before. Chowpatty has paid for the ticket so it is all go, go, go! It is nice to feel wanted again and to have some recognition from ones godbrothers. Apparently most everyone felt I would be perfect for that service including all of the India Regional Board. To those who dont like it I will quote Indradyumna Maharaja who said "They just better get used to it. You are back whether they like it or not" My trip to Mayapur was very successful.

 

I gave class twice and gave em the sauce. They loved it. I had devotees thanking me the entire week for telling them what Prabhupada wanted at Mayapur. I also had a good relationship established with Naru Gopal who I saw every day and who was always asking me for advice about different issues at Mayapur. And there sure are a lot of issues but that is for discussion between you and I face to face. I also spoke at a LM meeting that Ambarish held at Gurusaday Rd. and I was fabulous. So everything is looking good. Will you come to Bombay for the festival? Please! It is going to be quite something and I am sure it will inspire you. Love Bhavs

 

[theist 1]

They deserve gay marriage and whatever else falls on their stupid heads.

 

BAS!

[theist 1]

This is an old story from 1999.

 

-----------

 

Bhavananda Still Worshipped In ISKCON Sydney

 

 

BY MADHUDVISA DASA

 

SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA, Jun 19 (VNN) — It may be hard to believe for some, but it is a sad fact that the "Founding Father" of the child molestation problem is still living within ISKCON and is even today offered respect and worshipped as an advanced devotee by the members of ISKCON. (*note*IRG received a phone call from OZ, 3 days ago and the reporter said that 'B' was sitting in the Vyasasana twice a week giving class, while making his living by running a male (gay) escort agency.)

 

In any responsible organization one would hope if it was discovered a member had sexually molested dozens or perhaps even hundreds of the organizations children the criminal would be treated as a deviant and handed over to the proper authorities to prevent him from molesting more of the organizations members in the future. Surely that would have been the responsible thing to do?

 

But not ISKCON. No! Instead when one of the self-appointed ISKCON "guru's" sexual activities became too embarrassing for the GBC they officially banned him from taking new disciples, however, they did not ban him from the organization or notify any authorities of his crimes. Rather, they immediately appointed him as practically the manager of the Sydney ISKCON Govindas restaurant! He proceeded to turn that into an extension of his living room by inviting his homosexual friends there to "party". I have personally seen with my own eyes "Govinda's restaurant" in Sydney full of this ex-guru's "gay" friends drinking beer and screaming at the tops of their voices... A very "spiritual" atmosphere indeed!

 

So, on one hand the GBC banned this "guru" from initiating new disciples, but on the other they offered him a very highly paid job in the Sydney ISKCON Govindas restaurant and provided him with a nice apartment and car to go with it. Personally I informed many ISKCON devotees and GBC members of the situation in Sydney, and of course they were all regularly visiting Sydney themselves, so everyone knew exactly what was going on. But no one seemed to mind that this ex-guru, who is openly homosexual and at that time very active in the Sydney "gay" community, was the most public representative of ISKCON in Sydney as the manager of the "Hare Krishna Restaurant." Unfortunately no one in ISKCON seemed to think this was a problem at all. The "Back To Godhead" magazine, ISKCON's official magazine, continued to print the address of the Sydney Govindas restaurant along with all the other ISKCON restaurant's and the ISKCON internet sites continued to list it as an ISKCON restaurant even though I informed them what was going on.

 

I was distributing books in Sydney at the time and had to deal with so many bewildered members of the public who had visited the restaurant, which by then was commonly known as "Gayvindas." It was a very embarrassing situation, but no one in ISKCON seemed to see any problem at all...

 

It was therefore quite a surprise when this ex-guru moved back into the Sydney temple to live with the male devotees. Of course there are a number of his old disciples in the Sydney temple, the Temple President is a great supporter from the "good old days" and one of the GBC's for Australia is his sannyasa disciple and a great supporter also. So it is a very comfortable position for him in ISKCON now.

 

Right now, this ex-guru is considered to be one of the most advanced devotees in the temple, therefore all the devotees are expected to offer him a great deal of respect. Of course if one cannot stomach the idea of respecting someone who has molested so many young devotees and practically destroyed their lives and given them the idea that Krishna consciousness means being molested by your "guru," then of course one is not at all welcome in ISKCON Sydney. In fact, if you don't offer this ex-guru sufficient respect you will be considered a great offender and most likely thrown out of the temple and called a "demon..."

 

So ISKCON is STILL enforcing the worship of child molesters and banning, bashing and blaspheming anyone who disagrees with this policy. EVEN NOW.

 

They have NOT CHANGED even in the slightest degree.

 

Whatever the GBC say in their official press releases about "protecting children" is simply propaganda and politics. By their actions we can see they have no desire to stop the worship of child molesters in ISKCON nor do they have any desire to get the child molesters out of ISKCON. After all the ISKCON leadership and the GBC have not changed at all. The current leaders are the same leaders who supported the child-molesters and banned, bashed and blasphemed anyone who spoke out against them. It is barely twelve months since it was discovered that when the GBC finally did appoint a "Child Protection Minister" he was also a child molester!

 

The most amazing thing is one devotee has been very publicly pointing out the fact that child molesters can not ever be bona fide gurus who are respected on the same level as God. He has been doing this since the 80's and trying to get the GBC to agree to this simple point. This would seem to be a completely reasonable proposition as the spiritual master is meant to be a very advanced devotee and even a neophyte Hare Krishna devotee has to follow the four regulative principles which include "no illicit sex."

 

Therefore how can a bona fide spiritual master be a child molester? Despite dozens of attempts to get the GBC to agree to this simple point, up until now they have completely refused to accept this point! How serious are they really to stop child molestation in ISKCON? They are not even prepared to agree that a child molester is not a bona fide guru in the disciplic succession!!

 

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

 

Your servant Madhudvisa dasa

 

[stonehearted 0]

Kulapavana:

I was referring to HH Devamrita Swami. Many in NV still hold a serious grudge against him (from what I know at least)

 

 

B: Yikes! He's a "top" GBC man now, so soon after bullying his way back in? I have a story about him from this past December, but that's for another time.

 

I know the penguin story's genuine (I saw them goof on it on The Daily Show); I meant to point out that the date is three months in the future. (I probably should have included a smilie emoticon.)

[stonehearted 0]

I gotta go ralph! (God, I love this island!)

[Guest guest]

**I gave class twice and gave em the sauce. They loved it.**

 

I guess if we don't learn from our mistakes, history repeats itself.

 

I wonder if anyone gave him the sauce for driving around Mayapur during hot summer days in his air-conditioned Mercedes Benz, while the other devotees sweated their hard service building the Temple. (Back in the early 80's.)

 

**To those who dont like it I will quote Indradyumna Maharaja who said "They just better get used to it. You are back whether they like it or not"**

 

That's the way. Win their hearts with humility. Don't apologize, just blast em with the sauce.