addressing a guru

[Guest guest]

I need a quick little bit of advice. I am going to a home program of some congregation members of the temple I attend, and Radhanath Maharaja is going to be there giving lecture. What is the correct way to address a guru? I mean as far as giving obeisences and respect to him? If anyone can help me it would be appreciated!

Hari Bol!

 

[Guest guest]

since you are not his deciple, something informal is ok if done with respect. Maybe just Hare Krishna, Maharaj.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Always respect sadhus and your life will be successful. Approach the sadhus in a humble state of mind and inquire from them submissively. Sadhu seva is the higest service to the Lord.

 

[ShegavichaRana 0]

purifies one's mind. Company of such a sadhu generates bliss in one's mind. We should treat such sadhus with utmost respect, humility and love.

[Guest guest]

create bliss in ones mind. After seeing Radhanath maharaja speak several times over the last week, I still felt inspired and rejuvinated just by having his association and hearing even a small amount of his vast knowledge.

He is the first maharaja I have ever been in the presence of, and I think it was a good example as a first.

[Guest guest]

If you meet a sanyasi, whether they are guru or not, you can say "Haribol, Maharaj" or "Hare Krsna, Maharaj", but it may be better to say "Dandavats, Maharaj" or "Dandavat Pranams, Maharaj". Not that you need to be very exact about ettiquette, but I am giving you more options.

 

If you are initiated by them, or you are aspiring or you take them as Siksa guru, you can call them Guru Maharaj or Gurudev

[Guest guest]

And how do you address a guru who is not Sanyasi, but grhasta?

[theist 1]

If one has accepted a spiritual master then these questions should be addressed to him for clarification I think.

[Guest guest]

if you haven't? (taken a spiritual master, you just want to know the proper etiquitte when in the presence of such a respected person)

[Guest guest]

You can call a senior devotee Prabhu.

 

This name, Prabhu, is used to speak of Nityananda and even Sri Gauranga, who is also sometimes called Mahaprabhu.

[yasodanandana 0]

yes.. possible... but i have big doubts that you can approach your spiritual master "hey joe!!"

 

to know some "classic" etiquette does not hurt

 

gurudeva = spiritual master (diksa or siksa) sannyasi or grihasta

 

maharaja=sannyasi

 

prabhu=grihasta (to every devotee!! i like to call prabhu also the matajis)

 

"harekrishna gurudeva" is etiquette, no problem

 

(my spiriual master says that in gaudya vaishnava the tradition is that the guru calls the disciples with "prabhu" and the disciples do not call the guru with the plain name (govinda maharaja, gopala prabhu etc.) but with gurudeva, prabhupada, vishnupada and so on)

[mahak 0]

Haribol. Addressing Guru depends on confidentiality that is established. Awe and reverence is the initial relationship the disciple has with Guru, however, thois may well change. Just as Krsna blinds on in a particular rasa, He is tied up as a naughty child in another rasa, and even nagged at in another rasa.

 

As Guru is empowered representative of Krsna (either siksa or diksa, rather useless adjectives in a very real context), Guru has the same gradations. Some may no longer regard him as master, but as father, some may regard him as friend, where familiarity may take place naturally. There is a danger here in acting "monkey see, monkey do" imitation. Theist gives good advice, ask your Guru. Never act on how you may see another disciple act toward Guru, because we dont actually have that relationship.

 

Some get quite offended when they read of Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers treating Him as equal, but this is not necessarily offensive, because their relationship is as peers, the guru-disciple relationship does not exist there.

 

The reason theist gives such good advice is that sadhana bhakti is what the guru teaches. Even if one may be intimate, and call him swamiji, he will not do so because Guru teaches that a disciple must always be subserviant, so the awe and reverence is always displayed. This is not a Guru ego trip, nor is the accepting Guru puja from a disciple an ego trip. This must be done, otherwise the Guru cannot impart a process of worship to a disciple. Guru accepts worship on behalf of his guru and Krsna. Only false humility will make a so-called guru stop a disciple from offering guru puja, for such a change in Rupa Goswami's sadhana bhakti constitutes a great apostacy.

 

So, we worship Guru as if He were God, because He fully represents God. Even the rank and file devotees represent God, and if anyone reminds us of our relationship with Krsna, such folks are worshippable. this is why Srila Prabhupada teaches us to offer each other obiesancies, not that we accept each other as guru necessarily, rather, we recognize the mission of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in the person of those we give such respects to.

 

I have many gurus, and I address each differently. I would barely glimpse Srila Prabhupada, and keep my eyes on the ground. I could barely speak in His presence. With another I accept as Guru, I called him by a much more familiar name, almost as a personal friend, though I never stopped recognizing his position (other than when I was completely insane and offended him at every step).

 

So, in short terms, it all depends....

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[yasodanandana 0]

there's maya in excessive formalism and in excessive familiarity when they stop the higher purpose to chant and give the holy name.

 

I have brought the advice of my spiritual master and some "classics" (perfectly compatible with srila prabhupada's teaching).... any out of standard situation is "out of standard", "emergency", "particular" and has to be taken like this. And it is possible to see when the etiquette is lacking for the maya of the disciple or for the purpose to give a better service.

 

But we say in the song : "janme, janme, prabhu sei"... you are my master life after life. When, tecnically, in vaishnavism we use the world "friend" it is for other devotees approximately at the same our level.

 

With them we exchange realizations... they're not exactly disciples, because sometimes they teach us, they're non exactly masters because sometimes they learn by us... and, most important we can choose to follow or not when they suggest something to us (thing not possible with the spiritual master)

 

So, speaking from a madyam adhikari point of view, a master is not a disciple neither a "friend (in the average sense of a non formal relationship).

 

Spiritual master has to be worshipped as god, and as with god, the intimate and informal relationships are for very advanced people. I am in the ABC... i comunicate the ABC /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

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"Some get quite offended when they read of Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers treating Him as equal, but this is not necessarily offensive, because their relationship is as peers, the guru-disciple relationship does not exist there."

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of course.... they are friends... the spiritual master is a complete devotee.. he has masters, friends, disciples, so if a disciple is offended by that or even seeing that a siksa guru of their gurudeva is correcting him he's obviously wrong negating the variety of rasas in the person of the spiritual master. But it is not our point.

 

my main point was: "yes, possible.... but some classic etiquette does not hurt" ..... nothing incompatible with your's and theist's message (imho).

[Guest guest]

you are in the presence of a particular Maharaja and feel this complete feeling of peace and respect for him vs. how you have felt in the presence of other gurus?

How do you know when a Maharaja is the right one for you?

[theist 1]

Ask the Lord in the heart to direct you. He knows who His true servant is. If there are several true devotees and servants He will direct you to the one that is most favorable to you according to your pyschology and whatever else He may consider.

 

Don't rely on your mind for direction as in feelings and "I think he must be bona fide cause he seems like a guru and others say he is." Or then there is the "I saw a light around his head" approach.

 

Best to just admit to the Lord that we can't tell who His devotee is and ask Him to direct us.

 

Sticking to that will be found to be fool(us) proof.

[yasodanandana 0]

BHAKTI(=prayer and meditation.. asking to krsna, trying to listen as you have already said)

plus

VEDANTA(=study of the features of the spiritual master in the scriptures.. and considering the example of previous sadhus and masters)

 

mind and intelligence are instruments given by the lord to use them at his service

[theist 1]

Good point.

[mahak 0]

haribol, guest. This "feeling" comes from the depths of the heart, but there is a dilemma here. The question is "Is this feeling from GURUDEVA Nityananda Prabhu, the Lord in the Heart leading us to His empowered representative?", or is this the mind influenced by sensual sentimentality?

 

In our state of neophytism (kanistha adhikari), we cannot distinguish devotee from demon, so we must be careful. It is not hopeless, though, because Krsna is working harder on us than we will ever work on Him, so we have to have a little faith in Guru Tattwa (The truth of God's representation). Chant vigorously, this is the key to separating our mental speculation from messages and direction from Lord Nityananda.

 

So, we honor all those who give Krsna to others. If this person is giving you Krsna, how can this happen without him being somewhat empowered by Krsna Himself? One cannot give another Krsna unless such empowerment is there.

 

As stated, there is no need to be influenced by adjectives at this stage. Guru is Guru, no adjectives, do not get bogged down in siksa or diksa, this is something for those who try to be scholars to argue about, Guru is beyond any such adjective. Guru means that the person is so heavily laden with love of the Supreme Person that he naturally distributes this love to all he comes into contact with. Initiation comes later, and is the prerogative of the Guru to take on this service. Outta time today, mo latah, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[yasodanandana 0]

"there is no need to be influenced by adjectives at this stage. Guru is Guru, no adjectives, do not get bogged down in siksa or diksa"

••••why not? if the devotee is pure one can ask for siksa (teachings).. and surely for diksa if he's not already initiated.

 

What is the problem if one sees a pure bhakta and he desires to be initiated? It is necessary.

 

We have to be careful, not frustrated

[mahak 0]

Haribol. My disregard for adjectives is in this context only.

 

If one is givig me Krsna, I may well ask for formal initiation, and he (she) may well comply or reject such the proposal. In this context, this does not matter, for guru is far beyond formal certification of such a relationship.

 

Haridas Thakur was not formally initiated by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, but is the non-application of the diksa adjective even noteworthy? No it is not. Formal initiation is not disregarded, because it is part of the sadhana bhakti process of Srila Rupa Goswami. But the "happening" is natural and not contrived in any way.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

just a question. how do i find spiritual guidence from a spiritual master or guru? i feel as though my entire life i have been searching for God/Krishna.i am addicted to Him and cannot fathom being seperated. but where can i find someone to help guide me?

[yasodanandana 0]

"If one is givig me Krsna, I may well ask for formal initiation"

••••you must ask

 

"and he (she) may well comply or reject such the proposal. In this context, this does not matter, for guru is far beyond formal certification of such a relationship"

••••initiation is not only a formality... the procedure of teaching and learning is more important, but not to the excess that initiation is only a formality. No acharya thinks like that and every bona fide master in our story gives harinama/diksa or sends the disciple to another to take harinama/diksa

 

"Haridas Thakur was not formally initiated by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, but is the non-application of the diksa adjective even noteworthy?"

••••••exception... obvious exception

 

" Formal initiation is not disregarded, because it is part of the sadhana bhakti process of Srila Rupa Goswami. But the "happening" is natural and not contrived in any way"

••••••yes natural... one approaches a guru and asks for initiation and instructions, very natural. A legitimate desire of the disciple and a duty for the master. Who teach gives also shelter, directly or bringing to his master.

 

My point is that, being these distinctions saint and bonafide there's no need to avoid or to be overly careful.

 

if one desires initiation, we approve it, very good.. we have to avoid the association of fake gurus, not to be careful when we meet a paramahamsa. "Prabhu.. give me everything you want please!!!!"

 

[yasodanandana 0]

"how do i find spiritual guidence from a spiritual master or guru? i feel as though my entire life i have been searching for God/Krishna.i am addicted to Him and cannot fathom being seperated. but where can i find someone to help guide me? "

•••••no problem... every devotee who has a pure spiritual master can (or must) bring you to his gurudeva, this is the natural procedure.. next you will know from direct experience, ask questions, advices and so on.

 

it is a very practical thing, you are searching for a good doctor... i have, you are searching for a pure master.. i have... go and see yourself.

 

I am disciple of Srila BhaktiVaibhava Puri Maharaja, if you want more informations i will give.

[Guest guest]

how do i know which devotee has a spiritual master?what if they say no? i couldn't handle it is someone said no. i long for Krishna so bad that i couln't imagine being a part. what do i say and do? where do i go to get this guidence? my life has changed so much with Krishna as the center that i can not go back to my old life, yet i do not know how to start a new one.I also am so much better at writting dowm (computer)how I feel and long for Him, when it comes fcae to face I get nervous. Any help?

[yasodanandana 0]

"how do i know which devotee has a spiritual master?"

•••asking to him... actually the world "devotee" means "devoted to krsna through the service to the spiritual master"

 

"what do i say and do?"

••••i have said it, be practical, in this way you will show your real love to krishna

 

" when it comes fcae to face I get nervous"

••••you will see krsna exactly when you'll be ready.. no worry about it, start from the basic... guru, sadhus association, basic principles, chanting hare krishna.. simple.