Unique Relationships in Mahabharat

[Guest guest]

I thought the Queens went back with Krishna. Isn't that true? How can krishna not protect a surrendered soul? weren't they surrendered unto him? if so, then shouldn't He take them with Him?

 

[Guest guest]

There is nothing like SKathria dharma that says a woman becomes property if her husband's are won. If that is dharma then Krishna would not have punished all of them right from Bheeshma, Drona, Karna etc. and would not have helped Draupathi when she cried for help during molestation. So you are wrong in justifying Kshatriya dharma. Moreover Draupathi herself pleads saying that after the Pandavas have lost themselves, and became slaves to Duryodhana they have no "yoghyatha" to keep Panchali as their coin to play. Its actually true, in a way what she talks. Above all, Panchali was not physically alright at that time and having her periods. No human irrespective of whether he is brahmana or Kshatriya or sudhra is suppose to illtreat a woman like that when she is unwell. They all deserve the punishment for supporting that evil Duryodhana and Duchadhana by keeping quiet sheddiing stupid false tears when Paanchali was molested. Just imagine a situation in our real life. Can anyone keep quiet and talk some stupid things of supporting a friend if your friend is going to molest another woman in front of crowd. Honestly then he does not deserve any friendship, and any good human would throw away whatever that evil friend gave for comfort. I am sorry, how much you all argue and support Karna, Bheeshma and Drona..My all time Love Shree KRishna is always right and thats why He finished all of them in their own cunning way. He knew that Arjuna cannot win Karna in archery and thats why in advance He made kunti to take the promise from Karna. "IF you are cunning and talk stupid dharma then I can be more cunning to finish you in establishing the actual righteouness" which is what is implied in Shree Krishnaa's actions at every stage.

I do agree that Paandavaas were not always right. Had they been right all the time including Darmaputra then there would nothave been war. Dharma would not even agreed to play the dice without consulting Krishna. Because they were not right all the time, they paid for their faults in spending 13 years in exhile.

Yet, they were far better than Duryodhana and thats why Krishna was on their side. If one observes Krishnaa's role carefully, leaving behind the fact as God, we could see how carefully He manipulated situations to make Dharmam win over Adharmam. He could have just vanished all of them in no time with His power. BBut He wanted people to realise that one cannot talk of Dharma and do atrocities in their own way with each having their own justification of situations. Then its not dharmam. Anyone can justify their own actions as Dharma. But Shree Krishna is the one who decides which is actually Truth and He is never wrong.

Shyam

[Kulapavana 0]

Nowhere in my post do I suggest that trying to publicly disrobe Draupadi was justified, or that Bhishma and Drona's apparent "tolerance" of such action was proper. I was merely pointing out the complexity of the case. Same goes for the game of dice. Here again there was no easy way out as it was a lose-lose situation. To say that Yudhisthira was like a common gambler who was unable to fight temptation is naive at best. Lets not rush to judgement before carefully examining the circumstances. After all, it was part of Krishna-lila.

[Kulapavana 0]

surrendered souls are always protected. that does not mean they never suffer or their bodies do not die. such souls are always with Krishna, if not directly than in their heart. When Krishna appears, or disappears, He does it in a way which delights devotees and bewilders the atheists. Give it some time and you will understand. Hare Krishna!

[Guest guest]

I did not misunderstand your posts, I appreciate the way you wrote, I am just giving my opinion and understandings.

Shyam

[Guest guest]

Nobody knows this Nara-Narayana question about Arjuna?

[Kulapavana 0]

yes, Arjuna was Nara of the Nara-Narayana rishis in previous life, a jiva-tattva. Krishna of course was Narayan /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

Could you please elaborate?

 

I'd like to hear as much as you know about this.

 

Still don't understand who you are referring to.

[Kulapavana 0]

please sign your posts, otherwise the conversation is much more confusing.

 

what specifically do you want to know about Nara-Narayan rishis? it is a long story and I have no time to make a summary now. you can easily find it on the net.

[Guest guest]

The following link gives some information about Nara and Narayana.....Shyam

 

http://sadasiva.com/J_LINGA/jkad.html

[Guest guest]

clink on this for a nice picture of Nara-Narayana creating Apsaras from His thigh....Shyam

 

http://www.sover.net/~jagadish/room_2/big_graphics_html/naranarayan_rishi.html

[ShegavichaRana 0]

because, Dronacharya, a great warrior and a teacher, was fighting the "Adharmic" side. There would not have been any victory, had he not been killed. Those who are taking side of the wrongdoers cannot expect any better treatment. That is how Lord asked Yudhisthira to say "Naro Va Kunjaro". A commentary on Mahabharata war written by a western philosopher said the war was won by Pandavas with deceit! Now this is too much!

[Guest guest]

If I remember correctly Anandavardhana in his dhwanyaloka has commented that the Mahabharata could be classed under the santha rasa

[Guest guest]

westerners that say things like that are uneducated backward folks. they are cowards

[Guest guest]

It's just amazing that Duryodhana could send these messages to his enemies after seeing Krsna's universal form:

 

Uluka reached the Pandava camp. He spoke to Yudhishthira: "I have been sent by Duryodhana with messages for all of you. I will deliver them. But first, you must assure me that you will not be angry with me". Yudhishthira said: "Please do not be afraid. We will not hurt you". Uluka then spoke the words of the Kaurava monarch. "Yudhishthira, you were our slave because of the game of dice. We dragged your dear wife to our court. Which man who is a real man would have allowed his wife to be insulted as she was insulted? You are not brave enough to defy us. Yet you talk as though you are great. You spent twelve years in the forest. One year you spent in the court of Virata, doing menial service to that man. Remember all the things that have happened to you so far. Remember the state of Draupadi on that day in our court. Throw off this hypocrisy of yours. You are trying to hide your cowardice by a cloak of Dharma. Remember the past and be a man. Fight with us as a true kshatriya.

 

"Bheema, you swore on impulse that you would drink the blood of Dussasana. Drink it if you can! You are very good at cooking. But remember, wielding the cooking ladle and wielding the mace are two entirely different things. You may be good at carving meat meant for eating. But let me see how well you are going to carve my brother's heart!

 

"Arjuna, you have been bragging about how you are going to kill my Radheya. Let me see you do it. You are not even a man. You spent the last year of your exile in the palace of Virata, dancing and singing. You are not a man. How can you even think of fighting with Radheya?

 

"Nakula, Sahadeva, you delightful little twins, the darlings of your mother, you are fit to be just what you were in the court of Virata. You can do nothing better than tending cows and horses. You have sworn to kill my uncle and hi's son. It makes me laugh to imagine you do it!

 

"Yudhishthira, please do not think lightly of me and my army. You are all of you going to be killed. Prepare your souls now, to meet your Maker.

 

"Krishna, do not think that we were impressed with the conjuring trick which you practised in our court. We did not like it. You spoke very brave words that day. You said that with the help of Bheema and Arjuna you would destroy the entire world. Let me see you try! Destroy the world indeed! Krishna, it is not Vrindavana where you won the hearts of the gopis with your pipe and your dancing. We are all men. We are not impressed by your fame which has spread to all the four quarters. Fight with us if you are a man. I am waiting for the beginning of the war. I want to see how brave you can all be, you who talked so much about killing all of us".

 

The Pandavas looked like fire kindled newly. They got up from their seats angrily. They were so furious they did not know what to do or what to say. Bheema glared at Uluka and it looked as though he was going to kill him. Krishna looked at Bheema and smiled as if to say: "Leave him alone. He is a messenger. He has been told that he will not be harmed Do not break the word of your brother". Krishna spoke to Uluka. He said: "You can hurry back to Duryodhana. Tell him this.

 

"Duryodhana, your words have been heard by all of us. We have understood every word of it. We are all willing to do what you want us to do. This is now my personal message to you. 'You evil man, be a man at least from today. You have not lived like a man. I am hoping that you will at least die like a man. You are thinking that Krishna is not going to fight. And so, because I am the charioteer to Arjuna and not a fighter, you are not afraid of me. If I want to, I can burn the entire host of kings and heroes like a forest fire burning straw. But I have too much respect for our king Yudhishthira and because he has asked me, I have taken up the work of a charioteer.

You can thank Yudhishthira for the fact that I am not fighting in this war. But remember, Duryodhana, that though I may be just a charioteer you will see how I am going to steer the horses of my Arjuna's chariot. Wherever you look, you will see the chariot of Arjuna with its ape banner. It will strike terror into your heart. It will rob you of your sleep. Waking or sleeping, you will see me and Arjuna and nothing else. You will see with your own eyes Bheema drinking

the blood of your beloved brother. You will be standing helpless and you will have to see your brother's desperate eyes. He will not be dead yet when you see him caught in the arms of Bheema. We will do everything which we promised to do. You are a breaker of promises but not the Pandavas. Remember that'".

 

Bheerna said: "Uluka, go and tell your king that Bheema has not forgotten his promise. Ask your king to piepare himself to see the death of all his brothers. He will see the death of all his sons and all his nephews. He will then remember this message of his to the Pandavas. I will drink the blood of Dussasana under the eyes of Duryodhana who will not be able to save his brother. Let this king of yours hide himself in any place, I will follow him. I will break his thigh and kill him. The brave do not repeat their oaths to assure themselves. They do what they have sworn to do. Tell him that".

 

Arjuna said: "Your king is a man of the worst type. He has no bravery of his own. He depends on the strength and courage of others. He has installed the grand old man Bheeshma as the commander of his army. Is he not ashamed of himself? How dare he harass that old man at this age? He has decided that the great Kaurava, Bheeshma, should die first. He has to die. I am going to kill him. I will show this king of yours that we are not men of words but men of action. Let him see the great heroes fall one by one. He will then remember his message to the Pandavas conveyed by you". Receiving all their replies Uluka returned to his king.

 

The next day the army of Duryodhana assembled on the field Kurukshetra.

 

I wonder if Duryodhana killed his own emissary for his words reply from the Pandavas.

 

Does anyone know where Kunti stayed during the battle?

 

[Guest guest]

wow, that is excellent. i remember that speech so well. in BR Chopra's Mahabharat, the actor that presents this message to the Pandavas does a great job. this speech is probably one of the best preformances in the entire epic. of course, that is my opinion.

 

i think that after this speech, Uluka goes back to Ghandar. Before he left Hastinapour, the pleaded with Shakuni to go with him. He said, father this is not our war. go home with me to ghandar. but, as we all know, he refuses and goes to battle.

 

i believe that Kunti mata stays in Hastinapour until the wounding of Bhisma Peeta. After that event, she goes to Kurukshetra with Ghandari. They both remain there up til the end of the war.

 

Now, i am not sure if this is true. There may be some mistakes. it has been about a good four years since i have watched mahabharat so i may be wrong. So, please if i am wrong, do not attack me. please just tell me i am wrong.

[krishnasgopi 0]

Although Bhanumati ( Duryodhana's wife), is not exactly a well known character in the Mahabharata, she has a very close relationship with Krishna as his adopted sister. In the series of Krishnavatar written by K.M. Munshi he wonderfully describes the relationship of Bhanumati an dKrishna who was reminded of his Gopis whenever he saw her.Mr. Munshi has portrayed the character of Bhanumati as a loving woman , devoted to her husband and her adopted brother, krishna

[krishnasgopi 0]

Although Bhanumati ( Duryodhana's wife), is not exactly a well known character in the Mahabharata, she has a very close relationship with Krishna as his adopted sister. In the series of Krishnavatar written by K.M. Munshi he wonderfully describes the relationship of Bhanumati and Krishna who was reminded of his Gopis whenever he saw her.Mr. Munshi has portrayed the character of Bhanumati as a loving woman , devoted wife and a wonderful adopted sister.

 

[Guest guest]

The only reason he (Karna) did that was because he was insulted by her at the contest to take her as a wife. She was nothing more than a prize to be won. He wasn't selfish in following a friend; once again he was commanded by a sense of purpose and duty.

[shamanpaguk 0]

Vrishali was her name. She was a good queen.

Karna and Vrishali had 3 brave sons. They had a small

palace and ruled over 3 provences that Duryodhana had

given them. (In exchange for martial favors)

Karna and his sons all were killed in the Kuru war.

Vrishali took sati.

[Guest guest]

Although I didn't read this westerner I agree with him

Ofcourse they killed everybody with deceit.

 

1. If Karna, had not given away his kawach-kundal, Arjun would have never defeated him.

 

2. Bhima, hit Duryodhana near crotch ( Krishna'a gesture) area which was not legal in the kind of battle they fought.

 

and many more liek this

 

 

[ShegavichaRana 0]

<1. If Karna, had not given away his kawach-kundal, Arjun would have never defeated him.>

 

Any father would do anything to save his son, Indra did exactly the same, what is wrong in it? Karna gave away Kawach-kundal in order to protect his name and fame as,"Danaveershoor Karna". That is OK. But this very Karna, lied when he had go get a deadly weapon to Parashurama that he was a brahmin. did he not? Did he not participate in the trecherous killing of Abhimanyu, who was just 16 then? Did he not call Draupadi as prostitute? His downfall was sure with so many mistakes from him. Do remember one thing, when Karna was trying to remove the wheel of his chariot, he was unarmed and Arjuna was unwilling to kill him. Arjuna just followed the instructions of Keshava and killed him. Everything was His plane.

 

<2. Bhima, hit Duryodhana near crotch ( Krishna'a gesture) area which was not legal in the kind of battle they fought.>

 

Those who where themselves unscrouplus like Kauravas, what can they expect from others? They made every attempt to defeat Pandavas by fair and unfair means. They indulged in conspiracies to eliminate Pandavas (trying to burn Pandavas in Lakshagriha, poisoning the Kheer of Bhima and so on.). They left no stone unturned, to drive away Pandavas without giving them the due share of the Hastinapur Kingdom.

Can they expect any mercy from the Lord? surely not. That is why Lord instructed Bhima to kill Duryodhana.

Both the acts are completely justified. Lord gives us the fruits of OUR Karma impartially.

 

 

[Kulapavana 0]

sometimes you have to answer deceit with deceit... life is not always black and white

[Guest guest]

there is krishna,

then, there is victory

[Guest guest]

The Kuruksetra War takes almost half the book in Kamala Subramaniam's version. Never have I seen such a detailed and long batttle description.

 

Any thoughts on why there is so much attention to the battle?

 

Can anyone tell me about the author, Kamala Subramaniam?

 

ancient paztriot