what is the main thing about vedic philosophy

[Haridham 0]

Hare Krsna everyone

 

I am curious about this question because I know I dont know anything as I am not well versed in the vedas and such. I am wondering what is the main thing we are supposed to know. I mean I have seen many posts on here by people who have a lot of knowledge about things that I didnt even know to think about.

 

So do we really have to know all this other stuff or bagavat gita, understanding we are not these bodies, knowing lord krsna is the supreme, serving guru and such things are enough.

 

 

Far as I undestand I know the basics but not much more. I have been with Prabhupads movement since I was 9 and have learned a few things but now this question has arised.

 

I mean i know a lot of people know so many stories and such but dont understand we are not these bodies etc so

I hope you all understand what I am trying to ask

 

 

Thank you

Hare Krsna

 

[gHari 0]

For us simple folk, Srila Prabhupada once wrote that from the following three axioms all truth can be realized:<blockquote>1. Krsna is the Supreme Proprietor,

 

2. Krsna is the Supreme Enjoyer,

 

3. Krsna is everyone's Best Friend.</blockquote>

gHari

[Haridham 0]

Yeah I guess when Krsna says Throughout I all the vedas i am to be known and such he meant it.

 

I am sure people are going to have various opionions on this.

 

Thank you for your answer

 

So i guess if you know krsna then there is no serious need to read the rest of the vedas. I mean you can read all the vedas and not understand or become devoted to krsna

[gHari 0]

Is to love Him.

 

Knowledge produces faith. Even if we have all faith, the knowledge is useful to help those of wavering faith. Their minds are filled with crocodiles born of attachment. With Vedic knowledge these crocs can be slain.

 

Even when we know Krsna, still His pastimes become even more relishable and take us deeper into love, and as love thickens we can realize finer and finer rasas, up to even madhurya rasa.

 

You love your wife. When her mother tells you stories of what she did as a girl, you will take pleasure in hearing them. To know her is to love her, even more.

 

Being always conscious of Krsna, what we strive to achieve, is certainly realized by reading Srila Prabhupada's books; and in them, if we read carefully in earnest we will learn much about Krsna and all three worlds.

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krsna. I think GHari is right on here.

 

But there are so many things unique to the Vedic literature. Here are just a few:

 

1. God is absolute, not just the best champion opposing the forces of evil. But He is Himself the substance of all creation.

 

2. In the Vedic literature, man finally gets of the center stage and God Himself appears.

 

3. We can know God as simply more than a servant - even a lover.

 

4. Reincarnation and it's association with karma is intact.

 

5. Vedic literature takes into account the modes and the preferences of people and deals with people where they are at.

 

And so on…

 

So to sum all this up, if you consider that knowledge by authority is the highest evidence… well, vedic literature gives God's opinion on God.

 

Hare Krsna!

[Guest guest]

That was me above. I was swayed by your title and went off on a tangent. I'll try again:

 

"So do we really have to know all this other stuff or bagavat gita, understanding we are not these bodies, knowing lord krsna is the supreme, serving guru and such things are enough."

 

I would say it is a world of duality and choice.

 

It seems to me some things are essential... such as knowing and acting like you're not the body. I mean that is the basis that we are preparing for our future life or lives.

 

But we are conditioned. It is not easy for us to stay focused while struggling with so many material desires. We need help, we need information, we need authorities.

 

The authority is the guru, who himself is successful in the discipline of yoga. Pleasing the bana-fide authorities is a fast way to knowledge and success.

 

Individually, we may prefer this or that vision. Reverence does not overshadow friendship. but to one who does not know the spiritual science of relationships, he may think just to acknowledge God's reverence is enough.

 

The knowledge is there and needed, yet people have their preferences and abilities.

 

Ghari, I think, emphasizes love. I agree. But I think I would put service above love for practical reasons:

 

Love begins with service. Service is the foundation.

 

So is serving Krsna and guru enough?

 

Philosophically, the answer is yes, the service is enough. Practically though, we have to see GHari's point: We have to see if we are loving God, because that spoontaneous service is the epitomy of perfection. So do we need to hear more about Krsna to know and love Him or are we there? It depends on where you are on the yoga ladder and also what Krsna wants you to do.

[Guest guest]

Haridam, thanks for the inspiration.

 

You asked a really thoughtful and meaningful question. It's actually a lifelong meditation like you're not the body.

 

I've been dwelling on your insightful question and I have alot more to say... but I won't.

 

I'm practicing classical guitar (waiting for someone to leave so I can put on a loud lecture tape while I practice) and a great lyric came to me while contemplating to profundity of life.

 

I'll put it in a song someday...

 

You'll find love in the service that's perfect for you.

 

copyright: he he he

[gHari 0]

Text 8 of the Nectar of Instruction seems to be an excellent summary of all that is good:<blockquote><center>

tan-nAma-rUpa-caritAdi-sukIrtanAnu-

smRtyoH krameNa rasanA-manasI niyojya

tiSThan vraje tad-anurAgi janAnugAmI

kAlaM nayed akhilam ity upadeza-sAram

</center>

tat--of Lord KRSNa; nAma--the holy name; rUpa--form; carita-Adi--character, pastimes and so on; su-kIrtana--in discussing or chanting nicely; anusmRtyoH--and in remembering; krameNa--gradually; rasanA--the tongue; manasI--and one's mind; niyojya--engaging; tiSThan--residing; vraje--in Vraja; tat--to Lord KRSNa; anurAgi--attached; jana--persons; anugAmI--following; kAlam--time; nayet--should utilize; akhilam--full; iti--thus; upadeza--of advice or instruction; sAram--the essence.

The essence of all advice is that one should utilize one's full time--twenty-four hours a day--in nicely chanting and remembering the Lord's divine name, transcendental form, qualities and eternal pastimes, thereby gradually engaging one's tongue and mind. In this way one should reside in Vraja [Goloka VRndAvana dhAma] and serve KRSNa under the guidance of devotees. One should follow in the footsteps of the Lord's beloved devotees, who are deeply attached to His devotional service.

 

PURPORT

Since the mind may be one's enemy or one's friend, one has to train the mind to become his friend. The KRSNa consciousness movement is especially meant for training the mind to be always engaged in KRSNa's business. The mind contains hundreds and thousands of impressions, not only of this life but also of many, many lives of the past. These impressions sometimes come in contact with one another and produce contradictory pictures. In this way the mind's function can become dangerous for a conditioned soul. Students of psychology are aware of the mind's various psychological changes. In Bhagavad-gItA (8.6) it is said:

<center>

yaM yaM vApi smaran bhAvaM

tyajaty ante kalevaram

taM taM evaiti kaunteya

sadA tad-bhAva-bhAvitaH

</center>

"Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail."

 

At the time of death, the mind and intelligence of a living entity create the subtle form of a certain type of body for the next life. If the mind suddenly thinks of something not very congenial, one has to take a corresponding birth in the next life. On the other hand, if one can think of KRSNa at the time of death, he can be transferred to the spiritual world, Goloka VRndAvana. This process of transmigration is very subtle; therefore SrIla RUpa GosvAmI advises devotees to train their minds in order that they will be unable to remember anything other than KRSNa.

 

Similarly, the tongue should be trained to speak only of KRSNa and to taste only kRSNa-prasAda. SrIla RUpa GosvAmI further advises, tiSThan vraje: one should live in VRndAvana or any part of VrajabhUmi. VrajabhUmi, or the land of VRndAvana, is supposed to be eighty-four krozas in area. One kroza equals two square miles. When one makes VRndAvana his residence, he should take shelter of an advanced devotee there. In this way one should always think of KRSNa and His pastimes. This is further elucidated by SrIla RUpa GosvAmI in his Bhakti-rasAmRta-sindhu (1.2.294):

<center>

kRSNaM smaran janaM cAsya

preSThaM nija-samIhitam

tat-tat-kathA-rataz cAsau

kuryAd vAsaM vraje sadA

</center>

"A devotee should always reside in the transcendental realm of Vraja and always engage in kRSNaM smaran janaM cAsya preSTham, the remembrance of SrI KRSNa and His beloved associates. By following in the footsteps of such associates and by entering under their eternal guidance, one can acquire an intense desire to serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

 

Again SrIla RUpa GosvAmI states in Bhakti-rasAmRta-sindhu (1.2.295):

<center>

sevA sAdhaka-rUpeNa

siddha-rUpeNa cAtra hi

tad-bhAva-lipsunA kAryA

vraja-lokAnusArataH

</center>

"In the transcendental realm of Vraja [Vraja-dhAma] one should serve the Supreme Lord, SrI KRSNa, with a feeling similar to that of His associates, and one should place himself under the direct guidance of a particular associate of KRSNa and should follow in his footsteps. This method is applicable both in the stage of sAdhana [spiritual practices executed while in the stage of bondage] and in the stage of sAdhya [God realization], when one is a siddha-puruSa, or a spiritually perfect soul."

 

SrIla BhaktisiddhAnta SarasvatI ThAkura has commented as follows upon this verse: "One who has not yet developed interest in KRSNa consciousness should give up all material motives and train his mind by following the progressive regulative principles, namely chanting and remembering KRSNa and His name, form, quality, pastimes and so forth. In this way, after developing a taste for such things, one should try to live in VRndAvana and pass his time constantly remembering KRSNa's name, fame, pastimes and qualities under the direction and protection of an expert devotee. This is the sum and substance of all instruction regarding the cultivation of devotional service.

 

"In the neophyte stage one should always engage in hearing kRSNa-kathA. This is called zravaNa-dazA, the stage of hearing. By constantly hearing the transcendental holy name of KRSNa and hearing of His transcendental form, qualities and pastimes, one can attain to the stage of acceptance called varaNa-dazA. When one attains this stage, he becomes attached to the hearing of kRSNa-kathA. When one is able to chant in ecstasy, he attains the stage of smaraNAvasthA, the stage of remembering. Recollection, absorption, meditation, constant remembrance and trance are the five items of progressive kRSNa-smaraNa.

 

"At first, remembrance of KRSNa may be interrupted at intervals, but later remembrance proceeds uninterrupted. When remembrance is uninterrupted, it becomes concentrated and is called meditation. When meditation expands and becomes constant, it is called anusmRti. By uninterrupted and unceasing anusmRti one enters the stage of samAdhi, or spiritual trance. After smaraNa-dazA or samAdhi has fully developed, the soul comes to understand his original constitutional position. At that time he can perfectly and clearly understand his eternal relationship with KRSNa. That is called sampatti-dazA, the perfection of life.

 

"Caitanya-caritAmRta advises those who are neophytes to give up all kinds of motivated desires and simply engage in the regulative devotional service of the Lord according to the directions of scripture. In this way a neophyte can gradually develop attachment for KRSNa's name, fame, form, qualities and so forth. When one has developed such attachment, he can spontaneously serve the lotus feet of KRSNa even without following the regulative principles. This stage is called rAga-bhakti, or devotional service in spontaneous love. At that stage the devotee can follow in the footsteps of one of the eternal associates of KRSNa in VRndAvana. This is called rAgAnuga-bhakti.

 

"RAgAnuga-bhakti, or spontaneous devotional service, can be executed in the zAnta-rasa when one aspires to be like KRSNa's cows or the stick or flute in the hand of KRSNa, or the flowers around KRSNa's neck. In the dAsya-rasa one follows in the footsteps of servants like Citraka, Patraka or Raktaka. In the friendly sakhya-rasa one can become a friend like Baladeva, SrIdAmA or SudAmA. In the vAtsalya-rasa, characterized by parental affection, one can become like Nanda MahArAja and YazodA, and in the mAdhurya-rasa, characterized by conjugal love, one can become like SrImatI RAdhArANI or Her lady friends such as LalitA and Her serving maids (maJjarIs) like RUpa and Rati. This is the essence of all instruction in the matter of devotional service."</blockquote>

Srila Prabhupada writes about this book, UpadezAmRta or The Nectar of Instruction in the Preface:<blockquote>"To achieve the highest success in life by becoming a gosvAmI and then a pure devotee of the Lord, one must follow the instructions known as UpadezAmRta, which have been given by SrIla RUpa GosvAmI. SrIla RUpa GosvAmI has given many other books, such as Bhakti-rasAmRta-sindhu, Vidagdha-mAdhava and Lalita-mAdhava, but UpadezAmRta constitutes the first instructions for neophyte devotees. One should follow these instructions very strictly. Then it will be easier to make one's life successful. Hare KRSNa."</blockquote>

[gHari 0]

Civilization and Transcendence: So if everyone joins--either Indian or non-Indian--in this movement, there will be one religion and there will be peace. Peace will prevail. This is the only way.

<center>

bhoktAraM yajJa-tapasAM

sarva-loka-mahezvaram

suhRdaM sarva-bhUtAnAM

jJAtvA mAM zAntim Rcchati

[bg. 5.29]

</center>

"A person in full consciousness of Me, knowing Me to be the ultimate beneficiary of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods, and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attains peace from the pangs of material miseries." This is the way to attain zAnti, peace. Understand KRSNa--that He is the supreme enjoyer, the supreme proprietor, and the supreme friend of everyone. "Accept KRSNa as your friend. You'll be happy." This is the message of KRSNa consciousness.

 

BG 2.66p: Unless one is in KRSNa consciousness, there is no possibility of peace. So it is confirmed in the Fifth Chapter (5.29) that when one understands that KRSNa is the only enjoyer of all the good results of sacrifice and penance, that He is the proprietor of all universal manifestations, and that He is the real friend of all living entities, then only can one have real peace. Therefore, if one is not in KRSNa consciousness, there cannot be a final goal for the mind. Disturbance is due to want of an ultimate goal, and when one is certain that KRSNa is the enjoyer, proprietor and friend of everyone and everything, then one can, with a steady mind, bring about peace.

 

BG 5.25p: The sufferings of humanity are due to forgetfulness of KRSNa as the supreme enjoyer, the supreme proprietor, and the supreme friend.

 

SB 1.5.36p: Apart from such Vedic duties, even in our ordinary dealings (for example, in our household affairs or in our business or profession) we must consider that the result of all activities must be given over to the supreme enjoyer, Lord KRSNa. In the Bhagavad-gItA the Lord has declared Himself to be the supreme enjoyer of everything, the supreme proprietor of every planet and the supreme friend of all beings. No one else but Lord SrI KRSNa can claim to be the proprietor of everything within His creation. A pure devotee remembers this constantly, and in doing so he repeats the transcendental name, fame and qualities of the Lord, which means that he is constantly in touch with the Lord. The Lord is identical with His name, fame, etc., and therefore to be associated with His name, fame, etc., constantly, means actually to associate with the Lord.

 

SB 3.27.4p: There are an unlimited number of living entities, and our resources are limited; therefore we cannot be of any real benefit to the people in general. The best service to the people in general is to awaken them to KRSNa consciousness so that they may know that the supreme enjoyer, the supreme proprietor and the supreme friend is KRSNa. Then this illusory dream of lording it over material nature will vanish.

 

SB 3.27.5p: It is therefore recommended in this verse that one engage very seriously in the devotional service of the Lord. This means that one should not think that he is the proprietor, benefactor, friend or enjoyer. He should always be cognizant that the real enjoyer is KRSNa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; that is the basic principle of bhakti-yoga. One must be firmly convinced of these three principles: one should always think that KRSNa is the proprietor, KRSNa is the enjoyer and KRSNa is the friend. Not only should he understand these principles himself, but he should try to convince others and propagate KRSNa consciousness.

 

SB 4.9.36p: In the Bhagavad-gItA the Lord says that He is the supreme enjoyer, the supreme proprietor of everything and anything within this creation, and the supreme friend of everyone. When one knows these things perfectly, he is always satisfied. The pure devotee never hankers after any kind of material prosperity.

 

SB 7.6.24p: One is expected to understand these three formulas of knowledge concerning the Supreme Lord--that He is the supreme enjoyer, that He is the proprietor of everything, and that He is the best well-wisher and friend of everyone. A preacher should personally understand these truths and preach them to everyone. Then there will be peace and tranquillity all over the world.

 

SB 7.15.34p: If one can understand KRSNa as the supreme enjoyer, the supreme proprietor of everything, and the supreme friend of everyone, one is established in peace and is free from material agitation. However, for one who cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the practice of yoga is recommended.

 

SB 8.8.8p: This peace formula for the world is given in Bhagavad-gItA (5.29). When people know that the Supreme Lord, KRSNa, is the supreme enjoyer, the supreme proprietor and the most intimate well-wishing friend of all living entities, peace and prosperity will ensue all over the world. Unfortunately, the conditioned souls, being placed into illusion by the external energy of the Lord, want to fight with one another, and therefore peace is disturbed. The first prerequisite for peace is that all the wealth presented by SrI, the goddess of fortune, be offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Everyone should give up his false proprietorship over worldly possessions and offer everything to KRSNa. This is the teaching of the KRSNa consciousness movement.

 

SB 8.9.29p: A nondevotee works for his personal sense gratification or for the sense gratification of his family, society, community or nation, but because all such activities are separate from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are considered asat. The word asat means bad or temporary, and sat means permanent and good. Activities performed for the satisfaction of KRSNa are permanent and good, but asat activity, although sometimes celebrated as philanthropy, altruism, nationalism, this "ism" or that "ism," will never produce any permanent result and is therefore all bad. Even a little work done in KRSNa consciousness is a permanent asset and is all-good because it is done for KRSNa, the all-good Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is everyone's friend (suhRdaM sarva-bhUtAnAm). The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the only enjoyer and proprietor of everything (bhoktAraM yajJa-tapasAM sarva-loka-mahezvaram [bg. 5.29]). Therefore any activity performed for the Supreme Lord is permanent. As a result of such activities, the performer is immediately recognized. Na ca tasmAn manuSyeSu kazcin me priya-kRttamaH [bg. 18.69]. Such a devotee, because of full knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is immediately transcendental, although he may superficially appear to be engaged in materialistic activities. The only distinction between materialistic activity and spiritual activity is that material activity is performed only to satisfy one's own senses whereas spiritual activity is meant to satisfy the transcendental senses of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. By spiritual activity everyone factually benefits, whereas by materialistic activity no one benefits and instead one becomes entangled in the laws of karma.

 

SB 11.11.2: By surrendering to polluted material consciousness, the living entity is afflicted with innumerable troubles. The only solution is to see Lord KRSNa within everything and everything within Lord KRSNa. Thus, one understands that Lord KRSNa is the supreme enjoyer, the proprietor of everything and the well-wishing friend of all living beings.

 

CC Madhya 20.130p: Thus KRSNa knows the cause of the distressed condition of the conditioned soul. He therefore descends from His original position to instruct the conditioned soul and inform him about his forgetfulness of his relationship with KRSNa. KRSNa exhibits Himself in His relationships in VRndAvana and at the Battle of KurukSetra so that people will be attracted to Him and will return home, back to Godhead. KRSNa also says in the Bhagavad-gItA that He is the proprietor of all universes, the enjoyer of everything that be and the friend of everyone. BhoktAraM yajJa-tapasAM sarva-loka-mahezvaram/ suhRdaM sarva-bhutAnAM (Bg. 5.29). If we revive our original intimate relationship with KRSNa, our distressed condition in the material world will be mitigated. Everyone is trying to adjust to the distressed conditions of material existence, but the basic problems cannot be solved unless one is in an intimate relationship with KRSNa.

 

Krishna Book 29: "You are the eternal husband, eternal son, eternal friend and eternal master, and one who enters into a relationship with You is eternally happy. Since You are the teacher of all religious principles, Your lotus feet have to be worshiped first. Accordingly, the zAstras state, AcArya-upAsanA: the worship of Your lotus feet is the first principle. Besides that, as stated in the Bhagavad-gItA, You are the only enjoyer, You are the only proprietor, and You are the only friend. As such, we have come to You, leaving aside all so-called friends, society and love, and now You have become our enjoyer. Let us be everlastingly enjoyed by You. Be our proprietor, for that is Your natural claim, and be our supreme friend, for You are naturally so. Let us thus embrace You as the supreme beloved."

 

Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers: Before I met SrIla PrabhupAda and his disciples, spiritual life was always obscure and nebulous. But the discussions with SrIla PrabhupAda were realistic, clear and exciting! SrIla PrabhupAda was patiently trying to help me understand that KRSNa--God--is the supreme enjoyer, supreme friend and supreme proprietor. I put forward many impediments to accepting the obvious: that I would have to become serious about God consciousness to understand God. But SrIla PrabhupAda relentlessly yet kindly urged me on. Even though I had little ability to express myself, SrIla PrabhupAda understood my every inquiry and answered perfectly.

 

Renunciation Through Wisdom: To see God everywhere and in every living entity is not the final word in self-realization; one needs to see Him in all events, in every activity, in every thought influencing everyone's life, including one's own. Two things are indispensable for acquiring such a vision: first we must offer the results of all our activities to Lord KRSNa, and second, every action we perform must be done exclusively as devotional service to Him. We must constantly meditate on the fact that Lord KRSNa is the only enjoyer and proprietor of every action.

 

The King of Knowledge: The opening words of the Ninth Chapter of Bhagavad-gItA indicate that the Supreme Godhead is speaking. Here SrI KRSNa is referred to as BhagavAn. Bhaga means opulences, and vAn means one who possesses. We have some conception of God, but in the Vedic literature there are definite descriptions and definitions of what is meant by God, and what is meant is described in one word--BhagavAn. BhagavAn possesses all opulences, the totality of knowledge, wealth, power, beauty, fame and renunciation. When we find someone who possesses these opulences in full, we are to know that he is God. There are many rich, wise, famous, beautiful and powerful men, but no one man can claim to possess all of these opulences. Only KRSNa claims to possess them in totality.

<center>

bhoktAraM yajJa-tapasAM

sarva-loka-mahezvaram

suhRdaM sarva-bhUtAnAM

jJAtvA mAM zAntim Rcchati

</center>

"The sages, knowing Me as the ultimate purpose of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attain peace from the pangs of material miseries." (Bg. 5.29)

 

Here KRSNa proclaims that He is the enjoyer of all activities and the proprietor of all planets (sarva-loka-mahezvaram). An individual may possess a large tract of land, and he may be proud of his ownership, but KRSNa claims to possess all planetary systems. KRSNa also claims to be the friend of all living entities (suhRdaM sarva-bhUtAnAm). When a person understands that God is the proprietor of everything, the friend of everyone and the enjoyer of all, he becomes very peaceful. This is the actual peace formula.

 

Journey of Self-Discovery: When we forget this philosophy--that KRSNa is the supreme father, KRSNa is the supreme proprietor, KRSNa is the supreme enjoyer, and KRSNa is the supreme friend of everyone--when we forget this, then we come into this material world and struggle for existence, fight with one another. This is material life.

 

Gita Lecture:

RevatInandana: "The sufferings of humanity are due to forgetfulness of KRSNa as the supreme enjoyer, the supreme proprietor, and the supreme friend."

PrabhupAda: If I know KRSNa as the supreme proprietor, then how can I throw so many tons of grains into the water without asking the proprietor? But I do not know. I am thinking I am proprietor. That is nescience. That is ignorance, practical. Because I know, I do not know who is the proprietor, therefore I am doing whimsically. But I will have to... Suppose if I do not know who is the proprietor of this building, if I do something harm to this building, does it mean that because I do not know who is the proprietor, I shall be free from the punishable law? No. I may think that there is no proprietor, but actually there is proprietor. I do not know. KRSNa says in the Bhagavad-gItA, bhoktAraM yajJa-tapasAM sarva-loka-mahezvaram: [bg. 5.29] "I am the supreme enjoyer. I am the proprietor of all planetary system." SuhRdaM sarva-bhUtAnAm: "I am the friend of everyone. I am supplying the grains for all living entities. Why you are destroying it? You shall be punished."

 

So people do not see the effect of these abominable activities because they do not know KRSNa. But they will have to suffer the consequence. Time will come when there will be devastation, just like there was First War, Second War in Europe, and there was mass devastation. So, these are the reaction because we do not know KRSNa. Therefore this movement is very important movement, every gentleman, every serious man to take to it. Yes. Go on.

 

SB 4.28.25:<CENTER>vikRSyamANaH prasabhaM

yavanena balIyasA

nAvindat tamasAviSTaH

sakhAyaM suhRdaM puraH

</center>

vikRSyamANaH--being dragged; prasabham--forcibly; yavanena--by the Yavana; balIyasA--who was very powerful; na avindat--could not remember; tamasA--by darkness of ignorance; AviSTaH--being covered; sakhAyam--his friend; suhRdam--always a well-wisher; puraH--from the very beginning.

When King PuraJjana was being dragged with great force by the powerful Yavana, out of his gross ignorance he still could not remember his friend and well-wisher, the Supersoul.

 

PURPORT

In Bhagavad-gItA (5.29) Lord KRSNa says:<center>

bhoktAraM yajJa-tapasAM

sarva-loka-mahezvaram

suhRdaM sarva-bhUtAnAM

jJAtvA mAM zAntim Rcchati

</center>

A person can be in full KRSNa consciousness and become happy and satisfied if he knows but three things--namely, that the Supreme Lord KRSNa is the enjoyer of all benefits, that He is the proprietor of everything, and that He is the supreme friend of all living entities. If one does not know this and functions instead under the bodily conception, he is always harassed by the tribulations offered by material nature. In actuality, the Supreme Lord is sitting by the side of everyone. IzvaraH sarva-bhUtAnAM hRd-deze 'rjuna tiSThati (Bg. 18.61). The living entity and the Supersoul are sitting side by side in the same tree, but despite being harassed by the laws of material nature, the foolish living entity does not turn toward the Supreme Personality of Godhead for protection. However, he thinks that he is able to protect himself from the stringent laws of material nature. This, however, is not possible. The living entity must turn toward the Supreme Personality of Godhead and surrender unto Him. Only then will he be saved from the onslaught of the powerful Yavana, or YamarAja.

 

The word sakhAyam ("friend") is very significant in this verse because God is eternally present beside the living entity. The Supreme Lord is also described as suHrdam ("ever well-wisher"). The Supreme Lord is always a well-wisher, just like a father or mother. Despite all the offenses of a son, the father and mother are always the son's well-wisher. Similarly, despite all our offenses and defiance of the desires of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Lord will give us immediate relief from all the hardships offered by material nature if we simply surrender unto Him, as confirmed in Bhagavad-gItA (mAm eva ye prapadyante mAyAm etAM taranti te [bg. 7.14]). Unfortunately, due to our bad association and great attachment for sense gratification, we do not remember our best friend, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers:

Bob: So... so you may follow God's wishes without knowing you are following God's wishes? Like somebody may be in the mode...

SrIla PrabhupAda: No, following without knowing--that is absurd. You must know the order of God. And if you follow that, then that is honesty.

Bob: But somebody would not be honest without knowing God?

SrIla PrabhupAda: Yes, because God is the supreme proprietor, the supreme enjoyer, and He is the supreme friend. That is the statement of the Bhagavad-gItA. If anyone knows these three things, then he is in full knowledge. These three things only: that God is the proprietor of everything, God is friend of everyone, and God is the enjoyer of everything. For example, everyone knows that in the body, the stomach is the enjoyer. Not the hands, legs, eyes, ears. These are there simply to help the stomach. Eyes--the vulture goes seven miles up to see where there is food for the stomach. Is it not?

Bob: That is so.

SrIla PrabhupAda: Then the wings fly there, and the jaws catch the food. Similarly, as in this body the stomach is the enjoyer, the central figure of the whole cosmic manifestation, material or spiritual, is KRSNa, God. He is the enjoyer. We can understand this just by considering our own bodies. The body is also a creation. The body has the same mechanical nature you will find in the whole universe. The same mechanical arrangement will be found anywhere you go, even in animals. In the human body or in the cosmic manifestation--almost the same mechanism. So you can understand very easily that in this body--any body, your body--the stomach is the enjoyer. There is a central enjoyer. And the stomach is the friend also. Because if you cannot digest food, you see, then all other limbs of the body become weak. Therefore the stomach is the friend. It is digesting and distributing the energy to all the limbs of the body. Is it not?

Bob: It is so.

SrIla PrabhupAda: Similarly, the central stomach of the whole creation is God, or KRSNa. He is the enjoyer, He is the friend, and, as the supreme proprietor, He is maintaining everyone. Just as a king can maintain the whole country's citizens because he is the proprietor. Without being the proprietor, how can one become everyone's friend? So these things have to be understood. KRSNa is the enjoyer, KRSNa is the proprietor, and KRSNa is the friend. If you know these three things, then your knowledge is full; you do not require to understand anything more.

yasmin vijJAte sarvam evaM vijJAtaM bhavati

If you simply understand KRSNa by these three formulas, then your knowledge is complete. You don't require any more knowledge. But people will not agree. "Why should KRSNa be the proprietor? Hitler should be the proprietor. Nixon ..." That is going on. Therefore you are in trouble. But if you understand these three things only, then your knowledge is complete. But you will not accept--you will put forward so many impediments to understanding these three things, and that is the cause of our trouble. But in the Bhagavad-gItA it is plainly said:

<CENTER>

bhoktAraM yajJa-tapasAM

sarva-loka-mahezvaram

suhRdaM sarva-bhUtAnAM

jJAtvA mAM zAntim Rcchati

[bg. 5.29]

</center>

["The sages, knowing Me as the ultimate purpose of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attain peace from the pangs of material miseries."] But we won't take this. We shall put forward so many false proprietors, false friends, false enjoyers, and they will fight one another. This is the situation of the world. If education is given and people take this knowledge, there is immediately peace (zAntim Rcchati). This is knowledge, and if anyone follows this principle, he is honest. He does not claim, "It is mine." He knows everything: "Oh, it is KRSNa's, so therefore everything should be utilized for KRSNa's service." That is honesty. If this pencil belongs to me, the etiquette is--My students sometimes ask, "Can I use this pencil?Yes, you can." Similarly, if I know that everything belongs to KRSNa, I will not use anything without His permission. That is honesty. And that is knowledge. One who does not know is ignorant; he is foolish. And a foolish man commits criminality. All criminals are foolish men. Out of ignorance one commits lawbreaking. So ignorance is not bliss, but it is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss. That is the difficulty. The whole world is enjoying ignorance. And when you talk about KRSNa consciousness, they do not very much appreciate it. If I say, "KRSNa is the proprietor; you are not the proprietor," you will not be very much satisfied. [They laugh.] Just see--ignorance is bliss. So it is my foolishness to say the real truth. Therefore it is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss. So we are taking the risk of offending

people, and they will think we are fools. If I say to a rich man, "You are not the proprietor. KRSNa is the proprietor, so whatever money you have, spend it for KRSNa," he will be angry.

<center>

upadezo hi mUrkhAnAM

prakopAya na zAntaye

</center>

"If you instruct a rascal, he'll be angry." Therefore we go as beggars: "My dear sir, you are a very nice man. I am a sannyAsI beggar, so I want to construct a temple. Can you spare some money?" So he will think, "Oh, here is a beggar. Give him some money." [They laugh] But if I say, "Dear sir, you have millions of dollars at your disposal. That is KRSNa's money. Give it to me. I am KRSNa's servant." Oh, he'll... [Everyone laughs.] He will not be very satisfied. Rather, if I go as a beggar, he will give me something. And if I tell him the truth, he will not give me a farthing. [They laugh] We convince him as beggars. We are not beggars. We are KRSNa's servants. We don't want anything from anyone. Because we know KRSNa will provide everything.

 

Gita Lecture:

So we do not know what is peace, what is the formula of peace, but we are trying to make peace. We keep all the, I mean to say, dirty things within our heart, and we are making propaganda that we want peace. How you can have peace? Here is the peace formula. What is that? BhoktAraM yajJa-tapasAM sarva-loka-mahezvaram [bg. 5.29]. The Supreme Lord, KRSNa, He is the enjoyer, He is the proprietor, and He is the real friend. In the Vedic scripture you'll find, He's such a nice friend that I am transmigrating from one body to another, and KRSNa is also transmigrating in the same body. Supersoul. Suppose I am transmigrating to the body of a hog. Oh, KRSNa is present there also. He's such a friend. Now, suppose we have got our friends. So when I've got richness, I am very rich, I will have so many friends. Suppose I am poverty-stricken now, no friends come to us. KRSNa is not such a friend. KRSNa is such a good friend. In whatever condition you may live, He is always with you. He is always with you. In the Vedic literature you find that two birds are sitting on the same tree. One bird is eating the fruit of the tree, and the other bird is witnessing. That witnessing bird is KRSNa, and the eating bird is myself. I am eating, I am enjoying the fruits of my work in this material world, and KRSNa is simply observing. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was talking so many things; KRSNa was observing. But when Arjuna came to his senses, he surrendered to KRSNa: ziSyas te 'haM zAdhi mAM prapannam. Similarly, the bird, the Supersoul bird, is sitting. He's simply waiting for the opportunity when he'll say, "Oh, KRSNa I surrender unto You. Now protect me. Give me instruction." He is waiting.

 

So this is the formula of KRSNa consciousness.

<center>

bhoktAraM yajJa-tapasAM

sarva-loka-mahezvaram

suhRdaM sarva-bhUtAnAM

jJAtvA mAM zAntim Rcchati

[bg. 5.29]

</center>If you really want peace, then this is the formula. You should always know that KRSNa is the enjoyer of everything, He is the proprietor of everything, and He is the only sincere friend. SuhRdaM sarva-bhUtAnAM jJAtvA. One who understands this secret, he becomes happy. peace is for him. Thank you very much. Now if there is any question, you can ask. (end)

 

Gita Lecture:

Prabhupada: Actually if the world want peace and prosperity, tranquillity, you must have to take this KRSNa consciousness; otherwise there is no possibility. KRSNa, the Supreme Lord, He is actually the proprietor. No land belongs to me or you. It is artificially. Just like I say to my American student, two hundred years ago the American land was there. Somebody was claiming, "America is ours.'' Now immigration from Europe, now they have their turn. They are thinking, "It is our country.'' But actually no land belongs to me or you. Everything belongs to KRSNa, or God. IzAvAsyam idaM sarvaM yat kiJcid. Everything is God's property. We have got right to use the God's property because we are sons, but tena tyaktena bhuJjIthA: whatever He allows you, you can take that. MA gRdhaH kasya svid dhanam. Don't think encroach on another's property. This is KRSNa consciousness philosophy, that you should always understand that KRSNa is the real bhoktA, or enjoyer. KRSNa is the proprietor of all the lokas. KRSNa is the real friend of everyone. We are seeking friendship from so many persons to improve our material condition, but you do not know the real friend is within you, everyone. IzvaraH sarva-bhUtAnAM hRd-deze 'rjuna tiSThati [bg. 18.61]. The real friend is within everyone's heart--KRSNa--and if you take shelter of Him... "Shelter of Him'' means simply hear about Him.

<center>

zRNvataM sva-kathAH kRSNaH

puNya-zravaNa-kIrtanaH

hRdy antaH-stho hy abhadrANi

vidhunoti suhRt satAm

[sB 1.2.17]

</center>

If you simply hear about KRSNa, just like you are kindly hearing now, then gradually the dirty things within your heart will be cleansed.

 

That..., this thing has been offered by Caitanya MahAprabhu. Caitanya MahAprabhu has introduced this chanting of Hare KRSNa mantra. That is not whimsically; that is according to zAstra. In the BRhan-nAradIya PurANa it is said,

<center>

harer nAma harer nAma harer nAmaiva kevalam

kalau nAsty eva nAsty eva nAsty eva gatir anyathA

[Adi 17.21]

</center>

If anyone wants God realization, then they..., he must take to this process of chanting, kIrtanIyaH sadA.

 

Lecture:

Prabhupada: Our only request is that "Every one of you, you try to understand God, love Him and be happy." The final conclusion in the Bhagavad-gItA is that if you want to be peaceful, if you want the peace of your mind, you should understand three things. That three things are that to understand that God is the supreme enjoyer. This is one. He is the proprietor of everything, and He is friend of everyone. If you learn these three things only, very scientifically, that God is the proprietor, God is the enjoyer, and God is the supreme friend of everyone, then your life is successful. And these simple things will be understood by you by chanting God's name: Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare. Hare means the energy of God, and KRSNa means God, all-attractive. Similarly, RAma means God. So there are three words in this verse: Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare: Hare, KRSNa and RAma. So anyone can chant these three names, Hare, KRSNa and RAma, and make his life successful. I hope you shall join us in this chanting of Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra.

 

Conversation:

Journalist (1): One last question. Is there a single, simple stitch (?) that you could give to people who don't know anything about KRSNa consciousness to help them to understand it. Is there one simple, single...

PrabhupAda: Very simple. God is the proprietor. God is the enjoyer. If God is proprietor, He must be enjoyer. And God is the supreme friend.

Journalist (1): Thank you very much. How long're you going to be...?

PrabhupAda: If you simply understand these three things. This is fact.

Journalist (1): God is the proprietor.

PrabhupAda: God is the proprietor. God is the enjoyer.

Journalist (1): Enjoyer.

PrabhupAda: And God is the supreme friend. Now if you analyze... Now you cannot say that you are the proprietor of this land. Somebody else is. Just like the land was there before your birth, and the land will remain there after your death, so during your span of life you are simply claiming. "This is mine." But before you birth, after your death, it belongs to somebody else, the supreme proprietor. And because He is the supreme proprietor He is the supreme enjoyer. And He is the supreme friend in this way, that He is giving all necessities of life to everyone. Nobody can be better friend than God.

 

BG 5.29:<center>bhoktAraM yajJa-tapasAM

sarva-loka-mahezvaram

suhRdaM sarva-bhUtAnAM

jJAtvA mAM zAntim Rcchati

</center>

bhoktAram--the beneficiary; yajJa--of sacrifices; tapasAm--and penances and austerities; sarva-loka--of all planets and the demigods thereof; mahA-Izvaram--the Supreme Lord; su-hRdam--the benefactor; sarva--of all; bhUtAnAm--the living entities; jJAtvA--thus knowing; mAm--Me (Lord KRSNa); zAntim--relief from material pangs; Rcchati--one achieves.

A person in full consciousness of Me, knowing Me to be the ultimate beneficiary of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods, and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attains peace from the pangs of material miseries.

 

PURPORT

The conditioned souls within the clutches of illusory energy are all anxious to attain peace in the material world. But they do not know the formula for peace, which is explained in this part of the Bhagavad-gItA. The greatest peace formula is simply this: Lord KRSNa is the beneficiary in all human activities. Men should offer everything to the transcendental service of the Lord because He is the proprietor of all planets and the demigods thereon. No one is greater than He. He is greater than the greatest of the demigods, Lord Siva and Lord BrahmA. In the Vedas (SvetAzvatara UpaniSad 6.7) the Supreme Lord is described as tam IzvarANAM paramaM mahezvaraM. Under the spell of illusion, living entities are trying to be lords of all they survey, but actually they are dominated by the material energy of the Lord. The Lord is the master of material nature, and the conditioned souls are under the stringent rules of material nature. Unless one understands these bare facts, it is not possible to achieve peace in the world either individually or collectively. This is the sense of KRSNa consciousness: Lord KRSNa is the supreme predominator, and all living entities, including the great demigods, are His subordinates. One can attain perfect peace only in complete KRSNa consciousness.

 

This Fifth Chapter is a practical explanation of KRSNa consciousness, generally known as karma-yoga. The question of mental speculation as to how karma-yoga can give liberation is answered herewith. To work in KRSNa consciousness is to work with the complete knowledge of the Lord as the predominator. Such work is not different from transcendental knowledge. Direct KRSNa consciousness is bhakti-yoga, and jJAna-yoga is a path leading to bhakti-yoga. KRSNa consciousness means to work in full knowledge of one's relationship with the Supreme Absolute, and the perfection of this consciousness is full knowledge of KRSNa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. A pure soul is the eternal servant of God as His fragmental part and parcel. He comes into contact with mAyA (illusion) due to the desire to lord it over mAyA, and that is the cause of his many sufferings. As long as he is in contact with matter, he has to execute work in terms of material necessities. KRSNa consciousness, however, brings one into spiritual life even while one is within the jurisdiction of matter, for it is an arousing of spiritual existence by practice in the material world. The more one is advanced, the more he is freed from the clutches of matter. The Lord is not partial toward anyone. Everything depends on one's practical performance of duties in KRSNa consciousness, which helps one control the senses in every respect and conquer the influence of desire and anger. And one who stands fast in KRSNa consciousness, controlling the abovementioned passions, remains factually in the transcendental stage, or brahma-nirvANa. The eightfold yoga mysticism is automatically practiced in KRSNa consciousness because the ultimate purpose is served. There is a gradual process of elevation in the practice of yama, niyama, Asana, prANAyAma, pratyAhAra, dhAraNA, dhyAna and samAdhi. But these only preface perfection by devotional service, which alone can award peace to the human being. It is the highest perfection of life.

[REASWARAN 0]

Good question !. The answer is pretty simple actually but also terribly complex- before I end up sounding like a riddle let me explain:-

 

The principle of the Upanishads -which are generally called the Vedanta- literally end of the Veda...Ved being knowledge- is represented by the vedic imperative "TAT TVAM ASI" meaning "YOU ARE THAT"

 

The THAT stands for the power which created and maintains the universe- which we call God ..Jesus...Krishna ..Allah etc. However, the Upanishads just refer to it as Brahman- this incidentally is not the same as Brahma who is a God. Brahman represents the cosmic power which has created and is maintaining this universe. So what the Upanishads tell you is that in the ultimate analysis you are no different from Brahman. The fact that you are not your body or your brain or even your mind can be easily tested- When you say "I" just think over what you are referring to ? Is it the body or the intellect or the mind ? Or is it not something else which uses these faculties ?

This something else is the power that drives the body .. the TAT of the quote.

 

The aim of all scriptures is to help you realise this- realise God, be one with God etc are the words used. There are various ways, karma yoga, Bhakti yog, Jnana yog etc but the easiest is a combination of all these migrating towards renunciation as you grow older.

If you need anything more please email me at reas@vsnl.com- will be more than glad to help.

[Guest guest]

what is the main thing about vedic philosophy ?

 

that the name of god, the image of god, the personality of god, the activities of god, the entourage of god.. are god

 

so if i chant krishna purely, i see krishna and his activities and i am with him

 

[Guest guest]

because surely me and you are not god, we cannot control anything, we are subjected to millions external energies and influences, we do not remember to be god.. and god does not forget... that statement of the vedas means that we are spirit and not matter, exactly as god.

 

if you see other scriptures and examine all the vedas and connected scritpures in a coherent and synoptic way, you will find that we are as god in quality and different in quantity

 

this world is various and have a great variety of subjects and situations.. spiritual world is more various, the plurality of subjects and the relationship between god and creatures is not illusory.. and it is eternal.. sat cit ananda

[Guest guest]

The operative word in your post is control. Brahman by nature is inert and is only a watcher- Sakshi. Brahman is the name given when the three modes of Prakriti are inert ie in equilibriuim. This is the natural state- where you have no desires - hence there are no actions - so the concept of control or creation is not existent. It is only the projection of this force through the agency of Rajas that brings action into play- this is precisely what the quote means - that you are beyond all the action of this world. Force, creation , control etc are concepts not existing for the Brahman.

[Guest guest]

"Brahman by nature is inert and is only a watcher"

 

it is illogic and based only on blind faith

 

brahman cannot have less features than the matter because it is the origin and source of it

 

so if i have personality and i am active, brahman or param brahman) has also personality and he's active

 

i am taught by prabhupada and gurudeva to avoid dogma and blind faith and to not accept illogic things at least in the basic matters of spirituality

 

i am a westerner, if i have to accept another sentimental religion, even if located in india, i remain in the one i am born

 

so chaitanya mahaprabhu reconciles the views in acynthia beda-abeda tattva: we (jivatma) and god (param brahman) are the same in quality and different in quantity... we are infinitesimal .. he's infinite

 

krsna clearly says in the gita that he's the source of the impersonal manifestation, not the opposite

[Guest guest]

As you very rightly say one should not accept dogma. But rejecting a concept because you do not understand it is itself dogma. And as for the concept itself, this has been exisiting in all strains of Hindu Philosopy- admitedly these ideas are not palatable to a western mind which is highly individualised , but that does not take away from the truth of the concept.

 

As someone said, if you want to understand the actions of God, become one.

[Guest guest]

western, especially protestant christianism, is very close to your idea of god and spirituality... beyond the image of a semi legendary jesus christ and a vague and fearful god there's an idea very close to an impersonal and inactive energy like an endless blue sky where all the souls merge in an eternal rest..

 

do not forget also that america is the land of new age.. so impersonalism is not a new concept in the west

 

i take, and with me the vaishnava schools, the precise and exact idea of an allmighty and all attractive and supremely personal god from the very scriptures of your indian religion.. like bhagavad gita and bhagavat purana where the activities of the Lord (so he's not inactive and impersonal) are depicted with abundancy of details... not from a supposed individuality of a typical western fellow

 

[Haridham 0]

How can God(krsna) be inactive and we be active. How can one be god and not be able to have more qualities and qualities then what it creates? Ofcourse God(krsna) is active and inactive at the same time but he is not limited to one.

 

I mean we have a form so God(krsna) has a form.

 

for example, if there is fruit, which obviously has a form is there then there is something that gave the fruit its form right? A tree is what gives the fruit its form. How can the fruit have form and the tree formless. The fruit comes from the tree.

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure why this thread is now a topic of impersonalism.

 

I heard a nice analogy about this. It's an example of bad logic:

 

The prime minister is Indian and I am also Indian; therefore I am prime minister. Now is this good logic?

 

This is the mistake of the impersonalist.

 

As soon as there is some toothache, some so-called God goes crying to the doctor. What kind of God is that?

 

Demonstrate that you are God. That is scientific.

[Haridham 0]

You make a very nice point. I dont know how it got turned into something impersonal but I think it was one of the visitors here who said something to that fact.

 

My question was answered a long time ago on this thread and you just gave me more confidence.

 

I agree with you in your point, at first I thought you said I had bad logic and ofcourse I often do it seems this time someone is agreeing with me.

[moksa 0]

The main theme for the vedas is sacrifice and maintaining rta (the cosmic order).

Krsna is not mentioned in the vedas.

 

The general theme is that everything is interconnected like a spiders web. Sacrifice is a means to maintain this cosmic order, that which happens in the microcosm will be reflected in the macrocosm. By not performing ones duty of sacrifice one creates disharmony in the cosmic order and brings down catastrophe. It is therefore the duty of every hindu to maintain sacrifice and duty to maintain the cosmic order.

 

What Krsna means when he refers to himself in this way, is that he too is rta. He is the web so to speak.

 

However, this is not unique to Krsna. We are all the web, we are all rta. This is thought that is developed in the Upanisads. In the actual vedas this line of thought is still being developed but it is possible to argue that the vedic tradition was already beginning to realise this.

By realising that we too are the web, we realise that we too are krsna and we achieve moksa through this line of thought.

 

moksa

[Haridham 0]

Well I can say is that Krsna says in the gita that Througout all the vedas I am to be known. So that is the purpose of the vedas.

 

THe best sacrifice is the sankirtan yagna. As stated by Lord Caitanya.

 

We are not any kind of web, we are in the web of Maya.

 

Saying that we too are krsna is compelete nonsense and sure I am not qaulified to tell you how as I know you will challenge me to do but there are others here who will gladly do so.

 

We are part and parcel of krsna. If we were krsna we woudnt be under the illusion of the three modes of material nature. We woudnt have the four defects that material beings have which are 1, being illusioned, 2, imperfect senses, propensity to tell lies(i think thats one of them) and the propensity to cheat others or be cheated.

 

We achieve moksa by doing bhakti yoga as krsna tells arjuna in the bagavat gita "abandon all varieties of religion and surrender unto me.....

 

he doesnt say abondon everything and become a hindu as the word hindu is never mentioined in the vedas.

 

 

[Guest guest]

These eleven Upanisads are considered to be the topmost Upanishads, and they are most certainly to be considered part of the Veda: Isa, Kena, Katha, Prasna, Mundaka, Mandukya, Taittiriya, Aitareya, Chandogya, Brhad-aranyaka and Svetasvatara.

 

The Chandogya describes here man's life in the form of soma-sacrifice; the natural function: eating, drinking, procreating and the cardinal virtues are described as the rewards of the sacrifice.

In Chandogya Upanishad, we read: sage Ghora Angirasa told Krishna Devakiputra - for he had become free from desire - "In the final hour one should take refuge in these tree thoughts: You are the Indestructible (asita); Your are the unshaken (acyuta); Your are the very essence of life (prana)."

 

The teachings Krishna heard from sage Ghora Angirasa is more or less the same which He taught to Arjuna in the Gita [XVI 1-2]. Ghora too already addressed Krishna as Acyuta, the infallible. In the Gita we find Arjuna addresses Krishna as Acyuta three times [bg. 1.2, 11.42. 18.73.] There is no any evidence in other texts of any Krishna, the son of Devaki, besides the Yadava prince Krishna, the cousin of Arjuna. Without any doubt, this section of Chandogya is a reference to Sri Krishna and the karma yoga philosophy.

 

Also, the epithet Gopa (Krishna) is used for Visnu in the verse VI.7.7 of Rg Veda:

vi yo rajAMsyamimIta sukraturvaishvAnaro vi divo rocanA kaviH |\\

pari yo vishvA bhuvanAni paprathe. adabdho gopA amRtasya rakSitA ||\\

 

 

- Muralidhar

[Guest guest]

Dear Guest, you are not an impersonalist, because you are speaking (through this board). Understand?

 

You are engaged in a very personal activity through your dialogue.

 

You do not come to infinity by zero. You come to zero. If you think infinity is reached by negation, then give me all your money and see if you are rich.

 

You do not come to the unlimited absolute by negating God's face and hands. Energy is subordinate to the energetic.

 

Impersonalist just ignore all the variety they see. Get real!

[REASWARAN 0]

I am sorry if this came out as an indictment of Westerners- I did not mean it to be so- I have spent time in the west too.

No what I was trying to say is that in the ultimate sense, the vedanta does not encompass any personal gods. God in the vedanta tradition is an non active state- the state of equilibruim. In such a state since there are no desires, there is no force of Rajas and hence no sorrow. This is a concept you will find not only in Hinduism but also in Buddhist philosopy. The references to Gods and heavens in the scriptures should be taken to mean only as illustrative of the way to nirvana and is given only to indicate a measure of the happiness found in the state of nirvana. It would be as much true I suppose of the heaven and hell of christianity - the visualisations are only for explaining concepts and are not the concept themselves.

[gHari 0]

Is atheistic like Buddhism? No God; since I am God you are God everybody everything is God type thing? One need not be a westerner to see how offensive this is to God who is addressed by Arjuna as param-brahman, beyond Brahman, the Supreme Brahman:<blockquote>JJAnI means this is real knowledge, to understand his real position. This is not knowledge, that "I am equal to God. I am God." This is not knowledge. I am God, but I am sample of God. But the Supreme God is KRSNa. IzvaraH paramaH kRSNaH [bs. 5.1]. Arjuna accepted KRSNa like that: paraM brahma paraM dhAma pavitraM paramaM bhavAn [bg. 10.12]. ParaM brahma. We may become Brahman... We are Brahman. There is no question of becoming. AhaM brahmAsmi. This is not very difficult to understand. Because I am spirit soul, so I am Brahman. That's all right. But I am not ParaM Brahman. That is ignorance. I am not ParaM Brahman. If one, anyone thinks that he is ParaM Brahman, then it must be understood that he's under the clutches of mAyA. That is the last snare of mAyA. Therefore KRSNa says that when one actually becomes knowledgeable, cognizant, he surrenders. BahUnAM janmanAm ante jJAnavAn mAM prapadyate [bg. 7.19]. That is real knowledge.

 

From Brahma-samhita:

The Vedas also are engaged in singing the song of the Lord of Gokula. There are ten tridents in ten directions to prevent and disappoint those who are aspirants for having an entrance into Goloka through meditations without the grace of KRSNa. Self-conceited people who try to reach this region through the paths of yoga (meditation) and jJAna (empiric knowledge) are baffled in their attempts, being pierced by the ten tridents. Self-annihilation has its excellence in Brahma-dhAma which represents the outside covering of Goloka in the shape of tridents. SUla means a trident; the mundane threefold attributes and the threefold divisions of time represent the trident. ASTAGga-yogis i.e. ascetics who practice the eightfold yoga, are the nondifferentiative liberationists who, trying to approach in the direction of Goloka, fall headlong into the pits of disappointment by being pierced and cut asunder by these tridents placed in ten directions. Those who proceed towards the direction of Goloka through the channel of devotion alloyed with majestic ideas, are fascinated with the charms of VaikuNTha which is the outer covering plane of SrI Goloka, at the sight of the eight perfections, viz., aNimA, etc., and majesties like mahApadma, etc. Those who are less forward in their intelligence relapse to the sevenfold world falling under the control of the ten protectors (of the ten directions) in the guise of mantras. In this wise, Goloka has become unknowable and inaccessible. It is only the divine selves of Godhead, the propounders of the divine dispensations for the different ages, who are always forward there to favor the approaching devotees who seek entry into the realm of Goloka through the channel of pure devotional love. These divine forms of Godhead are surrounded there with attendants of their respective natures.</blockquote>