conflict of gurus?

[mahak 0]

Haribol. The topic where this was being discussed was erased/locked, probably because of the poll that was attached. But it is a good discussion.

 

Guru is not a position as one thinks of in materialistic terms. Its not another word for Pope, Mullah, or anything like that. There can never be conflict between gurus, otherwise, the conflict is only present in one who thinks of guru in ordinary terms.

 

All of the issues come to play in such a topic. Who is your guru? The only correct answer is that my guru is the same as yours, Lord Nityananda Prabhu, resting in the core of the heart of each and every individual self as localized paramatma.

 

Conflicts of gurus only take place in the minds of the confused. An actual Guru only thinks of His Guru when the term comes up, thinking himself lowly disciple. He thinks that all of his guru's disciples are immensely more qualified than himself. Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami actually considered his disciples more qualified than himself to serve His Guru. In such a state of mund, one can chant the Names of Krsna constantly.

 

There is no conflict. I took initiation from Srila Prabhupada, but a guru led me to him. Another guru led me to that guru. No, guru is not cheap, and Im not calling anyone and everyone guru here. But, as Prabhupada said, "I am but an old man, and I am not perfect. But what I give has been given to me, and I present it to you without alteration, this is my perfection."(sic) The point is that all these other gurus I speak of had my best benefit at heart when they gave what they gave. They had no motive except my benefit. They led me to who I sought, but who sent them? Guru. Lord Nityananda Prabhupada give us what we need to come to him, and we need many gurus. None of these gurus are different from Lord Nityananda's desire, therefore, though they may have different functions, the end result is the same. They were sent for me, and if I do not apy them full respect as empowered by Lord Nityananda, how can any of them be pleased?

 

Srila Prabhupada was very pleased with the devotees who led me to him, and his pleasure is not withdrawn at his samadhi. To please the devotee is the best thing any of us can do. Maybe he is displeased on occasion, but this displeasure is actually a gift for the one who he is reaching on behalf of Lord Nityananda.

 

Some like to concentrate on the displeasure of Guru. This is why the criticism is rampant on topics such as this. The citations of displeasure appear, how he hated his godbrothers, how he hated his disciples, and here are the quotes to prove it. But this is suicide for the one engaging in such diatribe. When a Guru chastized a disciple, this is unfathomable gurukrpa, pure patitapavana mercy. Fools take such overheard criticism in opposing ways, repeating displeasure after displeasure. But in the relationship between guru and disciple, such exchange is nectar for both criticizer doing his duty and the criticized receiving the nectar of instruction.

 

So, my guru is Prabhupada, but another guru, not in opposition, is the one who introduced me to prabhupada's teachings, and also the advanced devotee who further imparted in me the seriousness of the science is also guru, and now has disciples of his own. And also listed as gurus are those who continually strive to remind me of my relationship with Krsna, and who make it hard to forget such a relationship exists.

 

So, we must give up all varieties of religion and surrender to Krsna, who represents himself by empowering many that facillitate rememberanbce and minimize forgetfulness of the supreme Lord. When guru is used in reference to the head of a foundation or a leader of a religion, something is lost. Srila Prabhupada was the head of a foundation he started, but he is Jagat guru for those in or outside of such foundation. Guru is not a position, it is God represented in this world, by Himself and by His empowered representatives.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[bhaktachris 0]

If i said something that was mistaken(no surprise)please forgive me. I felt bad after posting some after the poll for guru, and wanted to retract or change a word. I did not mean to try to say that Prabhupada was better or more or that His Godbrothers are less or not good. Anyone who enlivens Krsna consciousness in our hearts i think is our 'guru'.

 

I have had a difficult time with 'gurus' of the past.The one who gave me spirtual name, the one who had lusty feelings for me, the one who hid in a car with another to hide what they were saying,etc.etc.

 

Then after all these years i came back to Prabhupada or came to Him after knowing him for so long. And i have found so much depth and urgency in His message, that my appreciation gets the better of me.

 

Yes i may have been taught wrong or been part of those who were not unmotivated. And i may have said something out of my mind without thinking it through.

 

I beg forgiveness to all,sincerely,bhakta chris /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[gHari 0]

The people along the way may be flawed, but we can see the truth in Prabhupada. Sounds like you deserve to be cut a little slack.

 

I was lucky; when I was weak I had no idea what was going on. Then came the internet and the monkey. Fortunately by that time I had already developed a bullet-proof heart in the outlands.

[bhaktachris 0]

Hare Krsna,

You have spoken quite nicely,above,i noticed after going back to read through more carefully.

 

I think my "problem" with being overly eager towards Prabhupada's unique position is caused from the past.

 

I want to relate a story from my past without using names...

 

While doing my service a bunch of years ago, i was asked by my guru (the one who gave me spiritual name<not bhakta chris> and at the time was called a "zonal acarya") to do something for him to aid his health. What he wanted (i thought using my expert<in my field of service> opinion) would be disruptive to the souls in my care. I told him to wait untill it was less disruptive towards those souls to get what he wanted. This somewhat displeased him and he wrote me a letter on official "zonal acarya" letterhead.(although we lived under same roof).In the letter he said he could not understand why i was not letting him have his way. And that if the guru of another disciple in another temple was asked to get such and such he would do it immediatly. And i had no doubt of it because my father was "into" my Krsna consciousness at that time and would visit me once and awhile. Once on a visit he brought me to the temple where my guru compared my attitude with the other guru and disciple. There i was shocked to see the poor care given to the souls under the care of that disciple and guru as our counterparts. And after seeing the very unexceptable care given(under the standards i was given by Prabhupada's direct servant)i realized that i made the right decision.For they really did not care to be the best at their service(for Prabhupada)just be the best at "suckin up" to their unpure guru. And perhaps unthinkingly or subconsciously after that i made a decision to go through the daily worship and adoration of my guru but to keep Prabhupada as my main Master.

 

Then as i was able to associate with Prabhupada more and my guru less i realized that i only wanted to hear from Prabhupada. And try to please Him, by my service, using His standards and not cast off my name giving or initiation guru, but always stay digilent and chaste to our Sampradaya Acarya,A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami above all others.

 

And again,sorry if i have offended or spoken wrongly, i am only sometimes on the path and mostly lost in the dark.

[mahak 0]

Haribol, bhaktichris. No, no, no, you must not think that I was in any way critical of your poll or any of your refreshing commentary. But, an expert devotee always thinks of himself as very offensive, so Im the one bowing down at your feet.

 

Again, the appreciated story you have shared is one shared by many. "Why did I get burned on the guru issue?"

 

I dont think any of us did, to tell you the truth (of my opinion). Guru, the Lord in the Heart, is there to facillitate our desire, if we have determination to rule the world, guru makes it happen. If we need to have something more substantial, it is provided. So in a sense, guru tattwa is the answering of our prayers by God himself. After the departure of Srila Prabhupada, some of his trusted followers betrayed such trust. But the movement did not suffer one iota because it is God's movement. Some may have been attracted to those who thought they were gurus, but this is no mopre of a disqualification than those who as infants were baptized in this or that church. Krsna can speak to us through fools, and can even provide vivid example of such foolishness, but are such things NOT part of the overall spiritual education? I know I certainly learned valuable lessons from the zonal acharya era, which makes me understand that not a blade of grass moves in the wind without the sanction of the Lord.

 

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that displeassure with you efforts did not play a role in what I had written at all. And concerning names, once a devotee asked Srila Prabhupada about the Names he gave his disciples. The devotee was wondering why they were often so close to the names the parents gave, (like Jivan for john, mahaksa for matt, jadarani for judy, etc.) Srila Prabhupada answered, "Krsna gave good guidance to the parents, who just misspelled the name on the record". I tell this story to those who may be disappointed in those who gave them their names. Dont be, when they gave you your name, Krsna was working their intellect, so the name is valid. In fact, the best thing one can do for a guru who may not be anymore is to return the favor they gave you. Ask Krsna to provide for them, even more than we ask that krsna provide for us. We owe them despite the unfortunate turn of events that caused all this chaos, quarrel and confusion.

 

Prabhupada does not hate any of his disciples, so we should not hate any of them as well, especially if we accepted them as guru. Everything is cleared up beyond the limited time and space of this kaliyuga place of death. Hare Krsna, and keep writin your good articles here, ys in cooperation, mahaksadasa

[bhaktachris 0]

Thankyou for your kind words.

 

Yes the "guru" stuff is a problem for me and my past to understand is difficult. As a true good bhakta you have enlightened me in that. And yes i forget that Krsna has a plan and it is going on. I do not hate my old initiating "guru", infact as you pointed out he did help me. When i was young i needed someone to be like my father nearby, and he filled that spot. I certainly would have blooped long ago if not for him. And i was lucky to have a service and situation where my Love and Trust grew for the Topmost "Guru" for this age Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami. Hare Krsna,i am thinking of posting another Poll similar to the last but "enlarged and revised" and not participate myself accept my one vote. What do you think?

[Guest guest]

No proplem. It was hard time for KC. May take shelter any guru, then try follow spiritual life.

 

Serve SP so hard, then NS and anothers has troubles. SP was used they, now by it it is necessary simply to be surrendered SP to it or to move aside. Or to collaborate. SP Actually teaches them so.

[mahak 0]

Haribol, and from a former caretaker of Nandi, Bhumi, kamaduka, vishaka, monmohini, and lalita, I offer respects to my old friend balabhadra das, who has made his life an example of cow protection.

 

It is most important to never forget the contributions to our own krsna consciousness by others, and the story of the prostitute named cintamini, who is offered guru puja by the authority, serves us well. I always consider that the way to please Srila Prabhupada is to have friendly memories of ALL his disciples, even if they may have been overcome. The very falldown of these advanced devotees is a lesson in itself, and lets us know how precarious this whole thing is. As King Solomon reminds us, everything has a purpose, so if I remember a devotee when he was very pure and kind and full of all vaisnava characteristics, the subsequent silly stuff cannot be weighed against the service performed on behalf of the samkirtana.

 

I was burnt, too, threatened, ostracized, shunned, excommunicated, all these things, but what problem does this really pose? Is it anyone else's fault that I cannot surrender? No, because I can REMEMBER the Pandavas leaving the palace sadly while the authority on bhakti, King Bhismadeva, watched without destrtoying the offending cheaters. Bhisma was not at fault, nor was Vidura (who actually did something, but as Yama, Lord of Justice, he could not sit idly by), not was any of the kurus. All was arranged for the benefit of Arjuna and Yudhisthira, and Queen Kunti wants the calamities to continue because the troubles makes one fix the attention of the Supreme Lord.

 

Anyway, give my regard to your protected matajis, hare krsna, ys in cooperation, mahaksadasa