theist 1 Report post Posted July 30, 2003 In reply to: -- SB 11.28.31: The wise man, whose consciousness is fixed in the self, does not even notice his own bodily activities. While standing, sitting, walking, lying down, urinating, eating or performing other bodily functions, he understands that the body is acting according to its own nature. SB 11.28.32: Although a self-realized soul may sometimes see an impure object or activity, he does not accept it as real. By logically understanding impure sense objects to be based on illusory material duality, the intelligent person sees them to be contrary to and distinct from reality, in the same way that a man awakening from sleep views his fading dream. -- Intersting isn't it, how when we are fully immersed in this material waking state we are totally unaware of any dream forms and their activities from the night before. And when dreaming we forget this material form and its activities, like it just has no relation to us. And then there is the self realized who sees them both as dreams and distinct from himself. The true lucid dreamer. I am also reminded of the times when I was in the process of waking up. Sometimes we experience that we have a choice of waking up or going back deeper into our nightly dreaming.Still kind of dreaming but also becoming aware of our awakened enviroment, we may feel a pull from both sides. We also may go a little to the waking side and then back to the dreaming side several times before deciding definetively on what we want to do. This to me feels like what is happening now with myself and many of us. We have become vaguely aware that we are dreaming and should wake up but it seems to feel so nice just to lie here and dream on, at least for a little while longer. Back and forth we lean. Lingering. Unsteady in our determination. Yet to have enough faith developed in the words of the devotee to be sure that the waking state is by far to be prefered and that from the dream side a nightmare is sure to follow any pleasant dreams we may have experienced. In reply to: -- Only one who can learn the process of nescience and that of transcendental knowledge side by side can transcend the influence of repeated birth and death and enjoy the full blessing of immortality. Isopanishad Mantra 11 -- ...take the essence...SP letter to Krsnadasa 1972 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted July 30, 2003 SB 11.28.13: Actually, the living entity is transcendental to material existence. But because of his mentality of lording it over material nature, his material existential condition does not cease, and, just as in a dream, he is affected by all sorts of disadvantages. SB 11.28.14: Although while dreaming a person experiences many undesirable things, upon awakening he is no longer confused by the dream experiences. Why do we continue to want to lord it over material nature? I cannot find one good reason to continue with this illusion but yet I persist. Truly a definition of madness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted July 30, 2003 >>Just see how my subtle body is hovering over in the mad pursuit of sensual delights of eating sleeping,etc... << Yes, like performing various forms of voodoo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2003 Yes, like performing various forms of voodoo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2003 Padayatra Arrival Adress:Dead Bodies Stay in Their Houses-No Krishna means No Life Padayatra Arrival Adress given at Bhubaneswar,Orissa ,India on the 30th December 1995 by Srila Gour Govinda Swami How long will you sleep in the lap of the ugly witch Maya? How long? You have already slept for such a long time, lakhs and lakhs of lives. Do you want to sleep in the lap of the ugly witch Maya? Mahaprabhu is your only well-wishing friend, therefore He loves you so much. He descended here, tomare loite ami hoinu avatara, "For you I descended." ami bina bandhu ara ke ache tomara, "Is there any friend of yours but Me?" Why does He say, "I am your only well-wishing friend?" Krishna says He is your well-wishing friend. Mahaprabhu says, "I am your well-wisher. For you I descended." He loves you so much. You have no love, pure love for Him. "Hey rascal! Get out from here!" He loves you so much and you have no tinge of love for Him. enechi ausadhi maya nasibaro lagi' lao tumi magi' "I have brought medicine for you, to annihilate maya, annihilate ignorance, avidya, that is hari-nama maha-mantra." hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare This is the medicine. If you put complete faith, full faith, strong faith, unflinching faith in taking this medicine, definitely it will cure you. Ignorance will be annihilated, pure consciousness will arise. Your heart will be purified of all material contamination immediately. Then you can chant pure name, hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare sankirtane janakau gauranga mahaprabhu - He is the father of the sankirtana movement. He is prema-purusottama, the giver of krsna-prema; maha-vadanya avatara, most munificent incarnation, gauranga-avatara, who gives krsna-prema freely through this sankirtana, and Mahaprabhu was doing sankirtana here, surrounded by His associates, dear devotees, chanting, dancing. He first started this sankirtana-padayatra. This is the only remedy for the people of Kali-yuga. It will bring you all good fortune, all types of good fortune. What can be more than that. He is such a well-wishing friend. He was chanting, dancing in the street and moving, hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare adhane jatana kari dhana tejaginu gaura-kirtana-rase maghana na hainu Prarthana, song 42 - [first line is from text 2, second line is from text 4] Narottam Das Thakur says, "You have taken interest in collecting adhana, not real dhana, asset or wealth and neglecting real dhana, asset, this prema-dhana that Gauranga Mahaprabhu gives you through sankirtana. Where gaura-kirtana goes on, Gauranga Mahaprabhu appears there. Yes. When such gaura-kirtana is going on, many gaura-bhaktas congregate together and chant loudly, HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE. When this transcendental sound vibration touches the ears, can he stay inside his house? [ Srila Gour Govinda Swami says three words here and at the same time thumps his fist on the table and everyone cheers and claps and haribols, ] . . . He cannot stay inside his house. If it enters into the ear of those who are like stones, nirjivas, stones, they will remain inside, stones stay inside the house. This is gaura-kirtana, the only inspiration, the only life given to the jivas in Kali-yuga. Therefore we have this sankirtana-padayatra. Those who are dying out of ignorance, dying every moment, no life - no Krishna means no life. If Krishna is life, jivanam sarva-bhuteñu, Krishna says, I am the life in all living entities. But not carrying Krishna in you, have you love? You have no life. You are dying, you are dying, you are dying every moment. You are a dead body. Though living, dead, jivanmrta, though living, dead. You are breathing like the bellows of a blacksmith. What is the value of that life? If there is no Krishna in you, what is the value of that life? The man who has no Krishna in him, he is dead. What is the value of decorating a dead woman? You can understand this thing. What Mahaprabhu gives, gaura-priya-jana, dear devotees of Gauranga Mahaprabhu, what they give, why they do this padayatra, walking, walking barefoot. Why do they do it? They never become tired. They get so much life. Such ananda is there, paibe paramananda ananda apar, unlimited ananda. You'll get transcendental pleasure. You'll forget all your bodily ills and ailments if you chant Hare Krishna. You'll get such transcendental pleasure, nectar, life! Therefore we do it. His priya-jana, His dear devotee, our revered spiritual master Srila Prabhupada, he started this. Mahaprabhu has taught it, he started. This Mahaprabhu's lila is going on, is going on, yes, is going on. It will go on. One who cannot accept it, he'll remain as mleccha, yavana. So at the end of Kali-yuga, Kalki will come and annihilate. Otherwise if the fortunate living entities will accept and take part in gaura-kirtana, "Let me go out, take part, HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE. Let me go out and chant and dance." If you have life. You'll not be annihilated. So our devotees, many thanks to them. They have taken part in Padayatra, chanted throughout these hilly tracts, jungle tracts of land in Western Orissa and filled the atmosphere with the transcendental sound vibration and given opportunity to so many jivas, thereby their life is successful. And our request is, those who are intelligent, those who understand, those who are not stones, they must take part. Thank you very much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted July 30, 2003 We either cooperate with Krsna's desire for us and everyone to awaken or we remain in the dream of exploitation. We actually try to keep other jivas in the dreaming condition so that we may exploit them somehow. This is so dark. "if you try this you will be happy", "if you buy this you will be happy", "or you can trust me, I love you" etc. We choose to remain in the dream state because only from this position can we conceive of the joy in life coming to us at the experience of others. That false sense of godship is the intoxicating, dream producing, brew that we continue to willingly drink. If we search our minds we may even now see that we have a pot of these forbidden herbs on the fire brewing right now. Behind our pious talk of loving God often lurks the dark motive and plans for future exploitation of others, brewing away in another room. An embarrassing pot of continued material existence we are preparing even as we outwardly practice sadhana-bhakti. Well we have to start somewhere so its no surprise really. Just to us when we first glimpse it within our own minds. We just can't remain asleep to it. We must stalk the mind relentlessly. Hare Krsna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gHari 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2003 .... and I forgot what it's like to be awake. And I forgot that the dream is only fantasy. It seems so very real, and I am enjoying it so. What a wonderful dream .... Put me back in the Matrix, something important, like an actor maybe. But can I hit the snooze button before that Arjuna guy wakes me up again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted July 30, 2003 Yeah it does seem so good. Although I can't point to anything specific. When I look at it hard enough all my dream happiness is composed of future promises and an occasional pleasure flash across one of my senses. It fades so fast and I am just left with a promise for more...maybe...someday. Then I think well maybe it's all just a nightmare. Maybe the so-called good dreams are really just set ups to keep me entranced until the next disaster strikes. Then what to do. Wake up completely or try to take block it all out by entering some deep sleep state? Decisions, decisions. It's all too much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted August 18, 2003 TRANSLATION The spirit soul is born in many different species of life within the material world. Some species are born from eggs, others from embryos, others from the seeds of plants and trees, and others from perspiration. But in all species of life the prana, or vital air, remains unchanging and follows the spirit soul from one body to another. Similarly, the spirit soul is eternally the same despite its material condition of life. We have practical experience of this. When we are absorbed in deep sleep without dreaming, the material senses become inactive, and even the mind and false ego are merged into a dormant condition. But although the senses, mind and false ego are inactive, one remembers upon waking that he, the soul, was peacefully sleeping. PURPORT When a living entity is awake the material senses and mind are constantly active. Similarly, when one is sleeping the false ego recollects one's waking experiences, and thus one experiences dreams or fragments of dreams while sleeping. But in the state of prasupti, or deep sleep, both the mind and the senses become inactive, and the false ego does not recall previous experiences or desires. The subtle mind and false ego are called linga-sarira, or the subtle material body. This linga-sarira is experienced in the form of temporary material designations such as "I am a rich man,I am a strong man,I am black,I am white,I am American,I am Chinese." The sum total of one's illusory conceptions of oneself is called ahankara, or false ego. And due to this illusory conception of life the living entity transmigrates from one species of life to another, as clearly explained in Bhagavad-gita. The spirit soul, however, does not change its constitutional position of eternity, knowledge and bliss, although the soul may temporarily forget this position. To cite an analogous situation, if one dreams at night that he is walking in the forest, such a dream does not change one's actual position of lying in bed within his apartment. Thus it is stated in this verse, kuta-stha asayam rte: despite the transformations of the subtle body, the spirit soul does not change. Srila Srdhara Svami has given the following example to illustrate this point. Etavantam kalam sukham aham asvapsam, na kiñcid avedispam. One often thinks, "I was sleeping very peacefully, although I was not dreaming or aware of anything." It can be logically understood that one cannot remember something of which he has had no experience. Therefore, since one remembers peacefully sleeping although there was no mental or sensual experience, such a memory should be understood to be a vague experience of the spirit soul. Srila Madhvacarya has explained that the demigods, who are a superior race of humanlike entities on the higher planetary systems of this universe, do not actually undergo the gross ignorance of deep sleep as do ordinary human beings. Because the demigods have superior intelligence, they are not merged into ignorance at the time of sleeping. In Bhagavad-gita Lord Krsna says, mattah smrtir jñanam apohanam ca [bg. 15.15]. Sleep is apohanam, or forgetfulness. Sometimes by dreaming there is smrti, or memory of one's actual condition, although in a dream one may experience one's family or friends in an altered, illusory state. But all such conditions of remembering and forgetting are due to the presence of the Supersoul within the heart. By the mercy of the Supersoul one can have a preliminary glimpse of the soul by remembering how one was peacefully resting even without mental or sensual experience. According to the authorized commentaries on this verse, aviniscitesu means sveda-jesu, or born from perspiration. Srila Madhvacarya has pointed out, bhu-svedena hi prayo jayante: the earth's dew is to be considered the perspiration of the earth, and various species of life are generated from dew. In the Mundaka Upanisad (3.1.9) the situation of the soul in relation to prana is explained: (sanskrit deleted due to an overload of bugs) "The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. This atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of air [prana, apana, vyana, samana and udana]. The soul is situated within the heart, and it spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from the contamination of the five kinds of material air, its spiritual influence is exhibited." Thus in the innumerable species of life the spiritual soul remains situated within prana, or the material life air. http://vedabase.net/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted March 16, 2004 SB 11.11.12-13: Although the sky, or space, is the resting place of everything, the sky does not mix with anything, nor is it entangled. Similarly, the sun is not at all attached to the water in which it is reflected within innumerable reservoirs, and the mighty wind blowing everywhere is not affected by the innumerable aromas and atmospheres through which it passes. In the same way, a self-realized soul is completely detached from the material body and the material world around it. He is like a person who has awakened and arisen from a dream. With expert vision sharpened by detachment, the self-realized soul cuts all doubts to pieces through knowledge of the self and completely withdraws his consciousness from the expansion of material variety. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gHari 0 Report post Posted March 16, 2004 And yet we think we are drowning. Doh! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 16, 2004 From Teachings of Queen Kunti "In this material world, one must work very hard to maintain oneself. In Bhagavad-gītā (3.8) it is said, śarīra-yātrāpi ca te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ: "one cannot even maintain one's own body without work." Kṛṣṇa never advised Arjuna, "I am your friend, and I shall do everything. You just sit down and smoke gañjā." Kṛṣṇa was doing everything, but still He told Arjuna, "You must fight." Nor did Arjuna say to Kṛṣṇa, "You are my great friend. Better for You to fight and let me sit down and smoke gañjā." No, that is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A God conscious person does not say, "God, You please do everything for me and let me smoke gañjā." Rather, a God conscious person must work for God. But even if one does not work for the sake of God, one must work, for without work one cannot even maintain one's body. This material world, therefore, is meant for pariśrama, hard labor." hare krsna, ys mahaksadasa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2004 SB 11.11.2: Just as a dream is merely a creation of one's intelligence but has no actual substance, similarly, material lamentation, illusion, happiness, distress and the acceptance of the material body under the influence of maya are all creations of My illusory energy. In other words, material existence has no essential reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2004 SB 11.11.8: One who is enlightened in self-realization, although living within the material body, sees himself as transcendental to the body, just as one who has arisen from a dream gives up identification with the dream body. A foolish person, however, although not identical with his material body but transcendental to it, thinks himself to be situated in the body, just as one who is dreaming sees himself as situated in an imaginary body. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priitaa 0 Report post Posted March 20, 2004 These are wonderful! I have saved this thread to my fav!!! Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted March 22, 2004 Haribol Priitaa, I love this section also. I think the Uddhava Gita (not sure where it begins and ends exactly) would make a nice small book unto it's self for distribution. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted March 22, 2004 SB 1.8.25 purport excerpt This material world is certified by the Lord in the Bhagavad-gita as a dangerous place full of calamities. Less intelligent persons prepare plans to adjust to those calamities without knowing that the nature of this place is itself full of calamities. They have no information of the abode of the Lord, which is full of bliss and without trace of calamity. The duty of the sane person, therefore, is to be undisturbed by worldly calamities, which are sure to happen in all circumstances. Suffering all sorts of unavoidable misfortunes, one should make progress in spiritual realization because that is the mission of human life. The spirit soul is transcendental to all material calamities; therefore, the so-called calamities are called false. A man may see a tiger swallowing him in a dream, and he may cry for this calamity. Actually there is no tiger and there is no suffering; it is simply a case of dreams. In the same way, all calamities of life are said to be dreams. If someone is lucky enough to get in contact with the Lord by devotional service, it is all gain. Contact with the Lord by any one of the nine devotional services is always a forward step on the path going back to Godhead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Govindaram 1 Report post Posted March 24, 2004 Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.1.1, New York, April 10, 1969 So our present condition is diseased. Why you are dying? Because you are diseased. Why you are becoming old? Because you are diseased. That is due to this body. But actually I am spirit soul. I am neither old nor diseased, but I have fallen into the condition of material contamination. Therefore I am thinking that I am diseased. This is called maya. Just like in the dream I am feeling that a tiger is eating me, and I am crying, "Here is a tiger eating me, eating me. Save me." But there is no tiger. This is called illusion, or maya. But so long we'll have this body just like so long we shall dream, we shall have to suffer the effect, even it is illusion. A man is crying, "There is a tiger." Actually, there is no tiger; neither tiger is eating. But because he is in hallucination, he is feeling the pain. That is actual fact. So the whole process is to stop this illusion, bodily contamination. Then we are in real life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Govindaram 1 Report post Posted March 27, 2004 ===== www.srimadbhagavatam.com/2/9/1 TRANSLATION Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning to the relationship of the pure soul in pure consciousness with the material body. That relationship is just like a dreamer's seeing his own body working. PURPORT Maharaja Pariksit's question as to how a living entity began his material life, although he is apart from the material body and mind, is perfectly answered. The spirit soul is distinct-from the material conception of his life, but he is absorbed in such a material conception because of being influenced by the external energy of the Lord, called atma-maya. This has already been explained in the First Canto in connection with Vyasadeva's realization of the Supreme Lord and His external energy. The external energy is controlled by the Lord, and the living entities are controlled by the external energy - by the will of the Lord. Therefore, although the living entity is purely conscious in his pure state, he is subordinate to the will of the Lord in being influenced by the external energy of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gita (15.15) also the same thing is confirmed; the Lord is present within the heart of every living entity, and all the living entity's consciousness and forgetfulness are influenced by the Lord. Now the next question automatically made will be why the Lord influences the living entity to such consciousness and forgetfulness. The answer is that the Lord clearly wishes that every living entity be in his pure consciousness as a part and parcel of the Lord and thus be engaged in the loving service of the Lord as he is constitutionally made; but because the living entity is partially independent also, he may not be willing to serve the Lord, but may try to become as independent as the Lord is. All the nondevotee living entities are desirous of becoming equally as powerful as the Lord, although they are not fit to become so. The living entities are illusioned by the will of the Lord because they wanted to become like Him. Like a person who thinks of becoming a king without possessing the necessary qualification, when the living entity desires to become the Lord Himself, he is put in a condition of dreaming that he is a king. Therefore the first sinful will of the living entity is to become the Lord, and the consequent will of the Lord is that the living entity forget his factual life and thus dream of the land of utopia where he may become one like the Lord. The child cries to have the moon from the mother, and the mother gives the child a mirror to satisfy the crying and disturbing child with the reflection of the moon. Similarly, the crying child of the Lord is given over to the reflection, the material world, to lord it over as karmi and to give this up in frustration to become one with the Lord. Both these stages are dreaming illusions only. There is no necessity of tracing out the history of when the living entity desired this. But the fact is that as soon as he desired it, he was put under the control of atma-maya by the direction of the Lord. Therefore the living entity in his material condition is dreaming falsely that this is "mine" and this is "I." The dream is that the conditioned soul thinks of his material body as "I" or falsely thinks that he is the Lord and that everything in connection with that material body is "mine." Thus only in dream does the misconception of "I" and "mine" persist life after life. This continues life after life, as long as the living entity is not purely conscious of his identity as the subordinate part and parcel of the Lord. In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such misconceived dream, and in that pure conscious state the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but that he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love. ===== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted March 27, 2004 What also blows my mind is how all of us dreaming living entities have our dream experience coordinated with each other by the Lord. Hare Krsna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted April 9, 2004 The way of presentation of the Vedic sounds is so bewildering that it directs the intelligence of the people to meaningless things like the heavenly kingdoms. The conditioned souls hover in dreams of such heavenly illusory pleasures, but actually they do not relish any tangible happiness in such places. SB 2.2.2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted May 5, 2004 SB 2.9.1: Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning to the relationship of the pure soul in pure consciousness with the material body. That relationship is just like a dreamer's seeing his own body working. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted May 29, 2004 TRANSLATION SB 4.12.15: Srila Dhruva Maharaja realized that this cosmic manifestation bewilders living entities like a dream or phantasmagoria because it is a creation of the illusory, external energy of the Supreme Lord. PURPORT In the deep forest it sometimes appears that there are big palaces and nice cities. That is technically called gandharva-nagara. Similarly, in dreams also we create many false things out of imagination. A self-realized person, or a devotee, knows well that this material cosmic manifestation is a temporary, illusory representation appearing to be truth. It is like a phantasmagoria. But behind this shadow creation there is reality — the spiritual world. A devotee is interested in the spiritual world, not its shadow. Since he has realization of the supreme truth, a devotee is not interested in this temporary shadow of truth. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita (param drstva nivartate). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2004 SB 4.22.27: When a person becomes devoid of all material desires and liberated from all material qualities, he transcends distinctions between actions executed externally and internally. At that time the difference between the soul and the Supersoul, which was existing before self-realization, is annihilated. When a dream is over, there is no longer a distinction between the dream and the dreamer. The purport to this verse must be read or the mind may seize the opputunity to play tricks. Use the link below, go to this verse and click on the verse number. That will take you to the sankrit, translation and purport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
