Just a dream

[Guest guest]

typos beyond my control

[krsna 3]

The individual soul bereft of Krsna consciousness has many ideas and activities created in the mind by the external energy. They have been existing from time immemorial. Sometimes they are manifest in the wakening state and in the dream state, but during deep sleep [unconsciousness] or trance, they disappear. A person who is liberated in this life [jivan-mukta] can see all these things vividly.

 

 

From Purport :

 

The eternally liberated living beings are in the Vaikuntha jagat, the spiritual world, and they never fall into the material world .

 

 

***************************************************

 

This is required :a vivid perception of reality, outside totally of the dream (material world) in order to understand clearly that jiva souls do not fall from an un-fallen state of Vaikuntha (a place of no anxiety -kuntha- of wether or not I'll get booted out of the Lord's entourage for envying the Lord's position.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

Why we see things not experienced in this life is explained herein. That which we see is the future expression of a gross body or is already stocked in our mental stockpile. Because a Krishna conscious person does not have to accept a future gross body, his recorded desires are fulfilled in a dream. We therefore sometimes find things in a dream never experienced in our present life.

__ http://srimadbhagavatam.com/4/29/69/en1 {Purport extract}

[theist 1]

TRANSLATION SB 6.1.49

 

As a sleeping person acts according to the body manifested in his dreams and accepts it to be himself, so one identifies with his present body, which he acquired because of his past religious or irreligious actions, and is unable to know his past or future lives.

[theist 1]

SB 6.4.26: When one's consciousness is completely purified of the contamination of material existence, gross and subtle, without being agitated as in the working and dreaming states, and when the mind is not dissolved as in sushupti, deep sleep, one comes to the platform of trance. Then one's material vision and the memories of the mind, which manifests names and forms, are vanquished. Only in such a trance is the Supreme Personality of Godhead revealed. Thus let us offer our respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is seen in that uncontaminated, transcendental state.

 

 

[krsna 3]

I desire to enter that uncontaminated, transcendental state(trance). When will my consciousness be completely purified of the contamination of material existence, gross and subtle, and also beyond being agitated (as in the working and dreaming states)?

 

And the mind is not dissolved in deep sleep either; it it always there as long as Krsna ,the Supreme person is not fully revealed as He is in truth.

 

 

Also:

 

<font color="blue"> nivrtta-buddhy-avasthano

duri-bhutanya-darsanah

upalabhyatmanatmanam

caksusevarkam atma-drk

 

"One should be situated in the transcendental position, beyond the stages of material consciousness, and should be aloof from all other conceptions of life. Thus realizing freedom from false ego, one should see his own self just as he sees the sun in the sky."

 

Consciousness acts in three stages under the material conception of life. When we are awake, consciousness acts in a particular way, when we are in deep sleep, consciousness acts still another way. To become Krishna conscious, one has to become transcendental to these three stages of consciousness. Our present consciousness should be freed from all perceptions of life other than consciousness of Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

This is called duri-bhutanya-darsanah, which means that when one attains perfect Krishna consciousness he does not see anything but Krishna. In the Chaitanya-caritamrta it is said that the perfect devotee may see many movable and immovable objects, but in everything he sees that the energy of Krishna is acting. As soon as he remembers the energy of Krishna, He immediately remembers Krishna in His personal form. Therefore in all his observations he sees Krishna only. In the Brahma-samhita (5.38) it is stated that when one's eyes are smeared with love of Krishna (premanjana-cchurita), he always sees Krishna, outside and inside. This is confirmed herein; one should be freed from all other vision, and in that way he is freed from the false egoistic identification and sees himself as the eternal servitor of the Lord. Caksusevarkam: as we can see the sun without a doubt, one who is fully developed in Krishna consciousness sees Krishna and His energy. By this vision one becomes atma-drk, or self-realized. When the false ego of identifying the body with the self is removed, actual vision of life is perceivable. The senses, therefore, also become purified. Real service of the Lord begins when the senses are purified. One does not have to stop the activities of the senses, but the false ego of identifying with the body has to be removed. Then the senses automatically become purified, and with purified senses one can actually discharge devotional service.

</font color>

[krsna 3]

k

 

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[krsna 3]

I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead,

by whose illusory energy the jiva,

who is part and parcel of God,

forgets his real identity because of the bodily concept of life.

I take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whose glories are difficult to understand.

 

(Gajendra SB 8:3:29)

[krsna 3]

Materialists are generally very attached to their present bodily comforts and to the bodily comforts they expect in the future. Therefore they are always absorbed in thoughts of their wives, children and wealth and are afraid of giving up their bodies, which are full of stool and urine.

 

If a person engaged in Krsna consciousness, however, is also afraid of giving up his body, what is the use of his having labored to study the shastras?(Or posted 1000's of topics at Audarya-fellowship !!!) /images/graemlins/wink.gif It was simply a waste of time.

 

Therefore, O Lord, O Transcendence, kindly help us by giving us the power to execute bhakti-yoga so that we can control our restless minds and fix them upon You.

 

(Narada Muni SB 19:14-15)

[theist 1]

It is like being afraid to wake up in the morning because the dream body will cease to exist. So one who is convinced he is the dream body may try very hard to stay asleep and continue the dream but by natures arrangement he is forced to wake up and begin the next day. And immediately the dream body of last night is forgotten. All his fear was for naught.

[krsna 3]

Extract from Bhaktisiddhanta 'Sutras'

 

" 'All activities in this mundane world', says the Gita, 'are performed by mundane nature (Prakriti) by means of the triple qualities. The conditioned state blinded by the principle of mundane egotism (ahankara), chooses to regard himself as master'. [3] The principle that is diametrically opposed to the mundane world, which is the product of the triple qualities, is that of inaction or the state of deep slumber covered by the theory of non-differentiation. 'I slept at ease'. 'Easy sleep' is retainable by one's memory. A person is conscious of his ego even during deep, easy sleep; otherwise there could be no remembrance of such happy slumber. There is a similar state when a person can remember and give out experiences of his previous births.

 

 

'The state of error is traceable to the misconception that the soul is identical with the physical body'. The conviction that this gross physical body is myself is the cause of mistaking one thing for another. 'I am this physical body which is liable to be damaged by time, -- I have been scolded by such and such persons - these and such-like statements are applicable to the relationship of the gross and subtle physical bodies.

 

 

The real unalloyed 'I' has no beginning nor end. I am neither the gross physical body, nor also the mind. I am not the mind that changes when the morning changes into noon and noon into evening. I am not the mind which is sometimes cheerful and at other times miserable.

 

 

That conception of the truth that undergoes change is a function of the mind. That consciousness which is capable of getting mixed up with the non-conscious, is a product of the marginal Potency. What a wickedness it must be for one who is a product of the marginal potency to entertain the idea that he is himself the possessor or regulator of power. It is such persons who are referred to by the shlokas of the Gita viz., 'prakriti Kriyamaanaani...', Iswaroham...', etc."

 

[3] Gita III.27

 

[theist 1]

Karandhara: “Aïjasä—completely. Translation: Çré Çukadeva Gosvämé said: O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning to the relationship of the pure soul in pure consciousness with the material body. It is just like the dreamer seeing his own body working.”[snip]...

 

 

...[/snip]

Prabhupäda: Parasyänubhavätmanaù. Na ghaöeta artha-sambandha. There cannot be any relation at all. Na ghaöeta. Cannot be. Artha sambandhaù. Svapna-drañöur iväïjasä. The very exact example is given, svapna-drañöuù. Just like a man seeing dream: “Oh, there is tiger, tiger, tiger, tiger! Save me!” He is crying. Another man is, “Where is tiger? Why you are crying? Where is tiger?” But he, in the dream, he is actually feeling: “The tiger has attacked me.” Therefore this example is given, na ghaöetärtha-sambandhaù. There cannot be any meaning of this relationship except like a man dreaming and he is creating a situation. He is dreaming there is a tiger and he is creating a situation, fearful situation. Actually there is no cause of fear. There is no tiger. That situation is created by dream. Actually there is no tiger. Similarly we have created this material world and activity. People are running, “Oh..., sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh,” identifying that “Oh, I am the manager. I am the factory owner. I am this, I am that. We have got his politics. We have to defeat such competitors.” All these things are created exactly like that, svapna-drañöur iväïjasä, just like a man is creating his particular situation simply by dream. That’s all.

So the answer is, when somebody asks you that “When one has become in contact with this material nature?” He has not become in contact. He is thinking by the influence of the external energy. Just like the same example: A man is dreaming; there is no contact with tiger. Actually he has no contact with that. Similarly, actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become... Try to understand understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Kåñëa has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Kåñëa, so Kåñëa has given an opportunity: “All right. Imitate. You want to be imitation king in the stage. So feel like this. Play like this. Do like this. People will applaud. ‘Oh, a very nice king, very nice.’ ” That is the... So everyone in this material world, they are playing some part. They wanted, “I want to be prime minister.” “All right.” “I want to become very big business magnate.” “I want to be leader.” “I want to be a philosopher.” “I want to be a scientist.” So all this nonsense, they are trying to play—Kåñëa is giving him the opportunity: “All right.” But it is a nonsense, all nonsense. Simple dreaming. Just like you are dreaming. Next moment when the dream is gone, everything is finished. No more tiger, no more jungle, no more... Everything is finished. Similarly, so long this body is continuing, I am thinking, “I am a responsible leader, I am this, I am that.” But as soon as this body is finished, oh, these are (indistinct) gone.

Sarva-haraç cäham. The death means... Kåñëa says, “I am death. I take it away, all, everything. Gone.” Now just think of our past life. Suppose I was a king or something like that. From Bhågu-saàhitä it was ascertained. They said—I do not know—that I was a big physician in my last life, very spotless character, no sins, like that. He explained me. So it may be. But actually I have no remembrance that I was a physician. So what do we know? I might have been a very big physician, influential physician, having a good practice, but where is all...? All gone. So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Kåñëa consciousness. As soon as we understand that, “I have nothing to do with. I am simply Kåñëa’s servant. Eternal servant. That’s all,” immediately he becomes liberated. Exactly like that: as soon as you... Sometimes we do that. When the fearful dreaming becomes too much intolerable, we break the dream. We break the dream when it becomes intolerable. Similarly, we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Kåñëa conscious. “Oh, Kåñëa is my eternal master. I am His servant.” That’s all. This is the way. Actually we are not fallen. There cannot be any fallen. The same example: Actually there is no tiger; it is dreaming. Similarly, our fallen condition is also dreaming. We are not fallen. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. So if you study all these verses very nicely, you get all this knowledge quickly. Now what is the purport? Come on.[snip]...

 

...[/snip]

 

Karandhara: “The spirit soul is distinct from the material conception of his life.”

 

Prabhupäda: Yes. Distinct. Always distinct. Next?

[snip]...

 

...[/snip] Yogis, they are also trying to become one. So many endeavors are going on. But the simple process is, as soon as you surrender, that you are not fallen, “It was illusion. I was dreaming. I am Kåñëa’s,” finished. All gone. “I am Kåñëa’s. I am Kåñëa’s eternal servant. These are all nonsense”—he immediately becomes liberated. Just try to understand. Immediately, within a second. Liberation can be attained within a second, provided we abide by the order of Kåñëa. Sarva-dharmän parityajya mäm ekaà çaraëaà vraja [bg. 18.66]. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated. [snip]...

 

 

...[/snip]Therefore Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura said, keno mäyär boçe jäccho bhese’: “Why you are being washed away by the waves of mäyä? Just fix up. Stand up.” Jév kåñëa-däs ei viçwäs korle to är duùkho näi. You simply remain fixed up on this standpoint, that, “I am eternal servant of Kåñëa.” Then there is no more dream. And if you allow yourself to be washed away, Kåñëa gives you facility, “All right, come on. Be washed away.” Then?

 

Karandhara: “The living entities are illusioned by the will of the Lord because they wanted to become like Him.”

 

Prabhupäda: Yes.

 

Karandhara: “As a person thinks of becoming a king without possessing the necessary qualifications, similarly, when the living entity desires to become the Lord Himself, he is put in a condition of dreaming that he is a king. Therefore the first sinful will of the living entity is to become the Lord, and the consequent will of the Lord is that the living entity forgets his actual life and thus dreams of the land of utopia where he may become one like the Lord. The child cries to have the moon from the mother and the mother gives the child a mirror to satisfy the crying and disturbing child with the shadow of the moon. Similarly the crying child of the Lord is given over to the shadow of the material world to lord it over as a karmé and to give this up in frustration to become one with the Lord. Both these stages are dreaming illusions only. There is no necessity of tracing out the history when the living entity desired this, but the fact is that as soon as he desired such, he was put under the control of ätma-mäyä by the direction of the Lord. Therefore the living entity in his material condition is dreaming falsely that this is ‘mine’ and this is ‘I.’ The dream is that the conditioned soul thinks of his material body as ‘I’ or falsely thinks that he is the lord and that everything in connection with the material body is ‘mine.’ Thus in dream only the misconception of ‘I and mine’ persist life after life. This continues life after life as long as the living entity is not purely conscious of his identity as the subordinate part and parcel of the Lord. In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such misconceived dream. And in that pure conscious state the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love.”

 

Prabhupäda: That’s all.

 

Devotees: All glories to you Çréla Prabhupäda. (offer obeisances)[snip]

 

 

[krsna 3]

k

 

Am I in Maha-Vishnu's dream bubble ???

[Guest guest]

Of coarse!

Only problem, if you could call it that, is that we are living in the Kali yuga section of it.

Some may call it a nightmare.For us that is.

Untill we chant to wake the Lord at mangalartika.

And who knows what He'll reveal to you.

 

Jiv jago, jiv jago, gauracanda bole

kota nidra jao maya- pisacira kole

 

bhajibo boliya ese samsara- bhitare

bhuliya rohile tumi avidyara bhare

 

tomare loite ami hoinu avatara

ami bina bandhu ara ke ache tomara

 

enechi ausadhi maya nasibaro lagi

hari- nama maha- mantra

lao tumi magi

 

bjhaktivinoda prabhu- carane pariya

sei hari-nama- mantra loilo magiya

 

 

JIV JAGO (translation)

 

Lord Gauranga is calling, "Wake up, sleeping souls!

How long will you sleep in the lap of the witch called Maya?

 

You were born in this world to worship the Lord

but you have forgotten this and have become lost in ignorance.

 

I have descended just to save you;

other than myself you have no true friend in this world.

 

I have brought the medicine that will wipe out the disease of illusion,

the Maha Mantra of the Holy Names; so chant these Names right away.

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur says, "I fall at the Lord's feet,

begging Him to give me the Maha Mantra."

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

DREAMING / MATERIAL LIFE

"In the dreaming state one’s consciousness is almost covered, and one sees many inauspicious things, but when he is awakened and fully conscious, such inauspicious things cannot bewilder him."

 

In the condition of dreaming, when one’s consciousness is almost covered, one may see many unfavorable things which cause disturbance or anxiety, but upon awakening, although he remembers what happened in the dream, he is not disturbed. Similarly the position of self-realization, or understanding of one’s real relationship with the Supreme Lord, makes one completely satisfied, and the three modes of material nature, which are the cause of all disturbances, cannot affect him. In contaminated consciousness one sees everything to be for his own enjoyment, but in pure consciousness, or Krsna consciousness, he sees that everything exists for the enjoyment of the supreme enjoyer. That is the difference between the dream state and wakefulness. The state of contaminated consciousness is compared to dream consciousness, and Krsna consciousness is compared to the awakened stage of life. Actually, as stated in Bhagavad-gita, the only absolute enjoyer is Krsna. One who can understand that Krsna is the proprietor of all the three worlds and that He is the friend of everyone is peaceful and independent. As long as a conditioned soul does not have this knowledge, he wants to be the enjoyer of everything; he wants to become a humanitarian or philanthropist and open hospitals and schools for his fellow human beings. This is all illusion, for one cannot benefit anyone by such material activities. If one wishes to benefit his fellow brother, he must awaken his dormant Krsna consciousness.

 

In a dream one may see himself expanded through many bodies, but when awake he can understand that those bodies were all false. Similarly, although a liberated soul has the by-products of the body—children, wife, house, etc.—he does not identify himself with those bodily expansions. He knows that they are all products of the material dream. The gross body is made of the gross elements of matter, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, ego and contaminated consciousness. If one can accept the subtle body of a dream as false and not identify oneself with that body, then certainly an awake person need not identify with the gross body. As one who is awake has no connection with the activities of the body in a dream, an awakened, liberated soul has no connection with the activities of the present body. In other words, because he is acquainted with his constitutional position, he never accepts the bodily concept of life. (S.B. 3:27:25, 3:28:38)

 

My Lord, due to Your illusory energy, all living beings in this material world have forgotten their real constitutional position, and out of ignorance they are always desirous of material happiness in the form of society, friendship and love. Therefore, please do not ask me to take some material benefits from You, but as a father, not waiting for the son’s demand, does everything for the benefit of the son, please bestow upon me whatever You think best for me. (Maharaja Prthu SB. 4:20:31)

[krsna 3]

************not logged in

[theist 1]

 

TRANSLATION SB 7.14.3-4

A grihastha must associate again and again with saintly persons, and with great respect he must hear the nectar of the activities of the Supreme Lord and His incarnations as these activities are described in Çrémad-Bhägavatam and other Puräëas. Thus one should gradually become detached from affection for his wife and children, exactly like a man awakening from a dream.

 

PURPORT

 

[snip]

[/snip

In a dream we form a society of friendship and love, and when we awaken we see that it has ceased to exist. Similarly, one’s gross society, family and love are also a dream, and this dream will be over as soon as one dies. Therefore, whether one is dreaming in a subtle way or a gross way, these dreams are all false and temporary. One’s real business is to understand that one is soul (ahaà brahmäsmi) and that his activities should therefore be different. Then one can be happy.

 

“One who is transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed toward all living entities. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me.” (Bg. 18.54) One who is engaged in devotional service can very easily be liberated from the dream of materialistic life.

[theist 1]

TRANSLATION SB 7.15.61

 

When a substance and its parts are separated, the acceptance of similarity between one and the other is called illusion. While dreaming, one creates a separation between the existences called wakefulness and sleep. It is in such a state of mind that the regulative principles of the scriptures, consisting of injunctions and prohibitions, are recommended.

 

PURPORT

 

In material existence there are many regulative principles and formalities. If material existence is temporary or false, this does not mean that the spiritual world, although similar, is also false. That one's material body is false or temporary does not mean that the body of the Supreme Lord is also false or temporary. The spiritual world is real, and the material world is similar to it. For example, in the desert we sometimes find a mirage, but although the water in a mirage is false, this does not mean that there is no water in reality; water exists, but not in the desert. Similarly, nothing real is in this material world, but reality is in the spiritual world. The Lord's form and His abode -- Goloka Vrindavana in the Vaikuntha planets -- are eternal realities.

 

From Bhagavad-gita we understand that there is another prakriti, or nature, which is real. This is explained by the Lord Himself in the Eighth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita (8.19-21):

 

bhuta-gramah sa evayam

 

bhutva bhutva praliyate

 

ratry-agame 'vasah partha

 

prabhavaty ahar-agame

 

paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo

 

'vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah

 

yah sa sarveshu bhuteshu

 

nasyatsu na vinasyati

 

avyakto 'kshara ity uktas

 

tam ahuh paramam gatim

 

yam prapya na nivartante

 

tad dhama paramam mama

 

"Again and again the day of Brahma comes, and all living beings are active; and again the night falls, O Partha, and they are helplessly dissolved. Yet there is another nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is. That supreme abode is called unmanifested and infallible, and it is the supreme destination. When one goes there, he never comes back. That is My supreme abode." The material world is a reflection of the spiritual world. The material world is temporary or false, but the spiritual world is an eternal reality.

 

[theist 1]

TRANSLATION SB 7.15.62

 

After considering the oneness of existence, activity and paraphernalia and after realizing the self to be different from all actions and reactions, the mental speculator [muni], according to his own realization, gives up the three states of wakefulness, dreaming and sleep.

 

PURPORT

 

The three words bhavadvaita, kriyadvaita and dravyadvaita are explained in the following verses. However, one has to give up all the nonduality of philosophical life in the material world and come to the actual life of reality in the spiritual world in order to attain perfection.