The sat guru and the transcendental sound

[anadi 0]

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says:

The way to bhakti is the way of shabdha brahma (transcendental sound).

The sound has four levels

- the outer portion (vaikarik)- that we hear it

- the level of mind

- the level of intelligence

- the transcendental level (that can be uttered by the realized soul and imbibe the audiance with seva vasana (the seed of the desire to serve the DIVINE COUPLE- if the one that utters the sound is a RUPA-ANUGA.)

 

Only a sat guru (the one that have seen Krsna face to face) can give the transcendetal sound.

He is the only one who can give real initiation through the transcendental sound in Hari-nama and diksa (Gopala-mantra, Kama-gayatri-mantra, Gayatri-mantra...)

but

 

bhaktis tu bhagavad bhakta

sangena parijayate

SAT-SANGA prapyate pumbhih

SUKRITI purva sancite

 

The inclination for bhakti is awakened

by the association with the devottes of the Lord

And the association with the pure devotees

(SAT SANGA) can be attained by the accumulated effect of SUKRITI (eternal pious activities) performed over many life times.

(Brihan Naradia Purana 4.33)

Quoted by Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura

in Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu Bindu.

[raga 0]

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says:

The way to bhakti is the way of shabdha brahma (transcendental sound).

The sound has four levels

- the outer portion (vaikarik)- that we hear it

- the level of mind

- the level of intelligence

- the transcendental level (that can be uttered by the realized soul and imbibe the audiance with seva vasana (the seed of the desire to serve the DIVINE COUPLE- if the one that utters the sound is a RUPA-ANUGA.)

 

 

Where does Visvanatha say this?

 

 

 

Only a sat guru (the one that have seen Krsna face to face) can give the transcendetal sound.

 

 

I have not seen Krishna face to face. If I tell you, "chant Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna", is that mundane sound? It may not have an impact as great as the words of one who is a siddha, but nevertheless it is not a mundane sound.

 

 

 

bhaktis tu bhagavad bhakta

sangena parijayate

SAT-SANGA prapyate pumbhih

SUKRITI purva sancite

 

The inclination for bhakti is awakened

by the association with the devottes of the Lord

And the association with the pure devotees

(SAT SANGA) can be attained by the accumulated effect of SUKRITI (eternal pious activities) performed over many life times.

(Brihan Naradia Purana 4.33)

Quoted by Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura

in Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu Bindu.

 

 

Visvanatha doesn't quote this verse anywhere in his Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu Bindu.

 

[tsaneladi 0]

Yes, i too am bewildered by the origin of this quotation. Please advise.

[anadi 0]

[anadi 0]

The Quotation from

Brihad Naradia Purana (4.33)

 

"bhaktis tu bhagavad bhakta

sangena parijayate

sad sanga prapyati pumbhih

sukritaih purva sancitaih"

 

is not in Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu Bindu

but in Srila Bhaktivinoda's Jaiva Dharma.

Sorry.

 

[anadi 0]

Acording to ones realization

the transcendental sound

can appear on his tongue or not.

 

The kanishta adhikari utter

nama-aparadha, they do not utter transcendental (pure) nama

when they say maha mantra.

 

The madyama- adhikari utter

nama-abhasa, they do not utter

transcendental pure nama.

 

A madyama-uttama adhikari maybe

comes in bhava and utters a pure transcendental name.

 

Only an uttama adhikari,

a pure devotte of the Lord,

can utter the trancendental nama.

 

And who is an uttama adhikari?

Bhagavan Sri Krsna says in the Gita:

tad vidhi pranipatena

pariprashnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva darshina

 

Go to the one that

has seen the Truth (tattva darshina)

(and

who is the truth?

according to ones sadhana it is

"brahmeti

parama-atmeti

bhagavan

iti shabdya te".

For our brahma madhva gaudya

(rupa-anuga) sampradaya

tattva darshina means to see

Brajendra nandana Sri Krsna

but how ?

Oh, not alone!

With Srimati Radhika, with the gopis, gopas

...

then we are the family of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu who came to give what no avatara

has given before:

majari-bhava.

"gauranga nahito, tabe ke hoito

kemone dharita de

radhara mahima, prema rasa sima

jagate janato ke"

 

If Sriman GAuranga Mahaprabhu had not appeared, then what would have become of us?

How could we have tolerated living?

In this universe who would have ever come to know

the glories of Srimati Radharani

and the topmost limit of prema rasa?

 

"madhura vrinda, vipina madhuri

pravesha caturi sar

baraja-yuvati, bhavera bhakati

shakati hoito kar"

 

If Caitanya Mahaprabhu had not come,

who could have had the intelligence

to join in the sweet madhura rasa

of Sri Radha-Krsna's lila in Vrindavana?

Who else could have given the power to enter

the Vraja ramanis' mood of seva to yugala-kishora?

[raga 0]

 

The madyama- adhikari utter

nama-abhasa, they do not utter

transcendental pure nama.

 

 

This calls for scriptural support. Where is the idea above derived from? And the four levels of sound, where is it from (Visvanatha)?

[anadi 0]

Spoken by Srila Bhaktivedanta Aranya Maharaja in Vraja Mandala Parikrama 2001:

"adau guru mukhat shravant"

Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explained in the purport of this verse:

"asesu takshi tapata

nanu natha pumsa"

that

the path to Krsna can be seen through the ears and

that hearing must be done from the mouth of

sat guru.

 

Question:

If the path is transcendental

why do you limit it by physical association?

Answer:

Because it is transcendental therefore

any transcendetal thing oh,

comes from transcendental source;

like harinama, diksa mantras are transcendental

hari katha is transcendental

srimad bhagavatam is transcendental,

so transcendental things come from transcendental source.

So, everything in THIS world is material!

So, where it will come from?

Only when any realized person descende in this world

and is carying bhakti-shakti with them,

than you can receive what is transcendental.

 

When a pure devotee speaks,

mixed within his voice

are the safron particle

of the lotus feet of Krsna,

says Srimad Bhagavatam;

so,

sound has 4 dimensions:

vaikarik, madya, para, pashianti.

First dimension is the outer portion of the sound, what you speak, what you hear, and

what is going in your tape recorder.

Next two levels

are on the subtle platform of the mind and intelligence.

The fourth level is called shabda-brahma

and goes from soul to soul."

 

My dear reader, you have to know that whatever I write is not coming from me, but

I heard and recorded from my guru-jana who are coming in bhagavat parampara, giving

harinama, diksa mantras and hari-katha through the transcendental sound, which goes

directly to the soul.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

 

And the four levels of sound, where is it from (Visvanatha)?

 

 

 

The four levels of sound is a concept from the Upanishads, which is mentioned a few times in Srimad Bhagavatam verses as well. Visvanatha Chakravarthi focuses on the topic in part of his commentary on the elventh canto. For more information on this topic here is an article:

 

The Vedic Conception of Sound in Four Features

http://www.indiadivine.com/tattva17.htm

[raga 0]

 

The four levels of sound is a concept from the Upanishads, which is mentioned a few times in Srimad Bhagavatam verses as well. Visvanatha Chakravarthi focuses on the topic in part of his commentary on the elventh canto. For more information on this topic here is an article:

 

The Vedic Conception of Sound in Four Features

http://www.indiadivine.com/tattva17.htm<br />

 

Thanks JN Dasji for the reference. I expect Visvanatha's tika in this regard will be around the verses 11.2.35-43, right?

 

[raga 0]

It would be in the commentary of this verse, right?

 

kAyena vAcA manasendriyair vA

buddhyAtmanA vAnusRta-svabhAvAt |

karoti yad yat sakalaM parasmai

nArAyaNAyeti samarpayet tat || 11.2.36 ||

[anadi 0]

Utpanna-ratayah samyan

nairvighnam anupagatah

krsna sakshat kritau yogyah

sadhakah parikirttitah

Sri Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu 2.1.276

 

1. One in whose heart

bhava toward Sri Krsna

has already manifested

2. who has become qualified

to perceive the direct manifestation of the Lord

3. but who has not yet obtained complete freedom from all obstacles,

is called a sadhaka.

 

From this definition we understand that

Someone who has attained bhava

Is not a pure devotee .

At that time there remains in the sadhaka

some trace of a great offence commited against a devotee.As such the manifestation of sadhya bhakti or prema bhakti

is not possible in a sadhka bhakta.

 

Therefore in Sri Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu 2.1.280 are described

the characteristics of a siddha bhakta

(one who has attained to the stage of sadhya bhakti or prema bhakti).

 

Avijnatakhila kleshah

Sada krsnashrita kriyah

Siddhah syuh santata prema

Saukhyasvada parayanah

 

1. One who is fully immersed in activities related to Sri Krsna

2. who is completely unacquainted

with impediments (vighna)

or material distress (klesha)

3. and who

incessantly

tastes the bliss of prema

is called a siddha bhakta

 

As we see in the siddha bhakta

which is an uttama adhikari there is no klesha

and there is no offence that could hinder

the uttering of pure nama,

but in the sadhaka, who is a madyam adhikari of highest level(uttama)

klesha and various kinds of offences

are still impediments for the continous chanting of pure nama.

 

We should realize all this like Sri Rupa Goswami, by direct experience.

May Gurudeva pour His mercy upon us.

 

 

[kailasa 0]

Bhakti begin from sraddha.

[anadi 0]

Yes,

"adau sraddha tathah sadhu-sango"

writes Srila Rupa Gosvami.

 

But where does sraddha come from?

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes in Jaiva Dharma

 

"There are differences of nature and faith

in accordance

with the differences

of eligibility of human beings.

 

On the strength

of the ASSOCIATION with SADHUS (the tattva darshi, realized souls)

one can develop higher eligibility

and

acquire FAITH

in the satvik shastra,

which is the root of all auspiciousness.

...

Don't criticize anyone

because faith is according to eligibility

and

everyone is working according their

own eligibility.

Each person will gradually advance

when the time is appropriate."

 

Further Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes that

to get the association of sadhus, which is the condition to attain sraddha,

you need sukriti (eternal pious activities).

And then he concludes that "it is a fact that sraddha arises from sukriti

quoting Brihan Naradia Purana 4.33

 

bhaktis tu bhagavad bhakta

sangena parijayate

SAT-SANGA prapyate pumbhih

SUKRITI purva sancite

 

The inclination for bhakti is awakened

by the association with the devottes of the Lord

And the association with the devotees which are pure (SAT SANGA)

can be attained by the accumulated effect of SUKRITI (eternal pious activities)

performed over many life times.

 

Further Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains

"To converse with pure devotees

to serve them

to hear their discourses

is sat -sanga.

These activities are called bhakti -kriya -sanga.

 

Any bhakti activities

performed even accidentally

are called bhakti kriya

and create bhakti poshka SUKRITI - virtue which nourishes devotion."

 

"Hosting vaisnavas

hearing their recitatios

reading vaisnava holy books

are nitya sukriti

by which one develop sraddha"

But what kind of sraddha?

Oh, sraddha for ananya (one pointed) bhakti.

This is also stated in Jaiva Dharma.

 

Do we need a sadhu only in the beginning of bhakti?

Oh no, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains

"jiva cannot EASILY comprehend

the spiritual attachement , cid - anuraga

which is jiva-svadharma, jivas true nature"

 

jiva is wholly unacquainted

with the raga-anuga nature

to say nothing of the raga- atmika nature.

 

Only infrequently

by the mercy of the SADHUS

the raga-anuga nature can be awakened in the hearts of the jivas.

 

"O Lord Acyuta

the jivas has been wandering in the cycle of birth of death

from a time without beginning.

When the time for his release approaches

he attains SADHU- SANGA

and then (what happens?)

he becomes FIRMLY attached to You."

S.B. 10.51.53

 

[kailasa 0]

**SAT-SANGA

 

In world is one sadhu or many?

[anadi 0]

Yes, there are many.

 

I remember Srila Bhakti-vaibhava Puri Maharaja, a disciple of Srila Bhaktissidhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, who is over 90 years old, and I met Him last time on Krsna's Appearance Day this year in Viena, He was one time invited in one temple of a western institution in

Vrindavan to give lecture, and all the time he spoke about sadhus and told those bhaktas to not stay idle in the holy dhama and take association with the sadhu.

There were also sannyasi of that institution there, but He said to all of them, that if they take

no association and bhajana-shiksa submissively from the sadhu, they will do no progress.

 

And because of that, at the given time:

- they can fall down from their sadhana,

- they can misinterpret the holy books,

because only a realized person can really understand

what another realized person wanted to tell in His books,

and in this connection only a realized person can award

the Bhaktivedanta title, not any institution of the world

- they will criticize sadhus, committing grave vaisnava aparadha.

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

Who was awarded the title Bhaktivedanta in 1952

Is a sadhu, a vaisnava sadhu.

He was a junior friend of Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada,

who took sannyasi seven years later, in 1959 from the same Acarya

Bhakti Prajnana Keshava Gosvami Maharaja as Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

 

Some other sadhus from Gaudya Vedanta Samiti, whose cofounder was also

Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada are Srila Bhaktivedanta Vamana Maharaja

and Srila Bhaktivedanta Trivikrama Maharaja.

 

In an article entitled "Vedantavitta Krsna"in Sri Gaudiya Patirka in 1957

Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada writes

"Sri Gaudya Vedanta Samiti is working for the genuine welfare and auspiciousness of the world by preching bhakti-vedanta

and I consider it imperative for every Vaisnava

to cooperate with this Samiti."

 

[anadi 0]

> Offering pranam to the lotus feet of Hari, Guru and

> Vaisnavas, I wish to submit for their pleasure, this

> brief summary of my experience with Srila Gour

> Govinda Maharaja, and his transcendental

> relationship with Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana

> Maharaja.

>

> I had the good fortune to stay with Srila Gour

> Govinda Maharaja almost continuously from mid 1994

> up until his departure in early 1996. Several

> times, the topic of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana

> Maharaja was raised.

>

> In June and July 1995, I was with a group of his

> disciples and well wishers who were collecting funds

> in Singapore and Malaysia for the completion of the

> Bhubaneswar project. While in Kuala Lampur, I had

> the good fortune to meet two disciples of Srila

> Prabhupada, who were at that time inspired by the

> teachings of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

> and were serving him there. I was impressed by

> their devotion and faith in him.

>

> After some weeks, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja

> arrived in Singapore, en route to America for his

> preaching tour. At that time he was staying in a

> hotel, so we all got the chance to get his darshans

> during his stay.

>

> At the end of his class, I asked: "Srila Gurudeva,

> many people are leaving Iskcon and going to Srila

> Narayana Maharaja, what is your opinion of that?"

> He immediately took on a very grave tone, and

> pointing his finger at me, he loudly exclaimed:

> "What is the meaning of Iskcon, and who is a member

> of Iskcon? Iskcon means the Internacional Society

> for Krishna Consciousness, and that devotee who is

> 100% Krishna conscious, he is a true and actual

> member of this society. You are thinking Iskcon and

> non-Iskcon, but this has no place in vaisnavism. If

> you get the chance for his association, you should

> definitely run there."

>

> On another occasion, when Srila Gour Govinda

> Maharaja was about to depart from the Calcutta

> International airport, he was sitting alone in the

> departure lounge. I took the opportunity, and

> inquired: "Guru Maharaja, what should I do when you

> leave your body? What service should I do, and

> under whose guidance should I do that service?" He

> became very happy, and smilingly said: "You should

> immediately run to a siksa guru." I was very

> surprised by this. So I asked again: "But who is

> qualified and who will I go to?" He laughed again:

> "Don't worry, Gurudeva will make all arrangements

> for you."

>

> These two incidents left a deep impression on me, so

> when His Grace entered into nitya-lila, I

> immediately entrained from Bhubaneswara to Mathura

> and went to Sri Keshavaji Gaudiya Math. During this

> journey, I had two pressing doubts in mind, that I

> knew I would have to ask Srila Narayana Maharaja

> whenever I would get the chance to see him.

> Firstly, did he know Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja,

> and secondly, was he in the same line of bhajan? As

> I entered the Math, the first person I ran into was

> His Holiness himself. He mercifully came up to me,

> while I still had my bags over my shoulder, and

> asked me: "Oh where are you from?" I replied:

> "From Bhubaneswara." He became choked with emotion:

> "Yes I heard he was poisoned, but I don't think

> it's true." And he looked at me very deeply and

> said: "I knew Gour Govinda Swami so well... and we

> are in the same line."

>

> Many people doubt that Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja

> would have wanted his disciples to take the

> association of Srila Narayana Maharaja. But he

> always used to tell us: "You should never leave

> Iskcon, only if they preach apa-siddhanta, only then

> you can leave." He constantly used to stress the

> utmost importance of sadhu-sanga, so I find it

> incredulous that immediately after his departure,

> some disciples began to proclaim: "Don't take sadhu

> sanga, don't go to the sadhu, don't go to Srila

> Narayana Maharaja!" This is a great misfortune and

> could only be a source of disapointment to Srila

> Gour Govinda Maharaja.

>

> Every year in the Sri Keshavaji Gaudiya Math, we

> celebrate the vyasa-puja of Srila Gour Govinda

> Maharaja under the direct guidance of Srila

> Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja. The first year we

> held it was 1996, and after the program, we entered

> into Srila Narayana Maharaja's room. We jokingly

> said: "Oh, you did not speak anything

> confidential!" He also laughed and said: "No

> confidential hearers were there! Then speaking

> gravely he said: "The last time I met Sripad Gour

> Govinda Maharaja, he weepingly held both my hands

> and said - 'Oh Maharaja, soon I will leave this

> body, and all my disciples will come to you, please

> accept them and give them shelter'. I then told him

> - 'Don't worry Maharaja, I will help them all' and

> he became very happy."

>

> O gentle vaisnavas, kindly forgive me for not

> presenting this to the public earlier, this is my

> own selfishness, and I hope this will help clear any

> misconceptions one may have regarding their

> transcendental relationship.

>

> Your servant,

> Radhanath das

>

> _______Ekadasi, (September 3, 2002) Vrinda Kunja,

> Pindamonhangaba, Brazil.

 

[raga 0]

Speaking of remarkable saints, I must take the chance to submit a few words in praise of Radha Kund Mahanta Pandit 108 Sri Ananta Das Babaji Maharaja. He is one of the most remarkable saints in the Gaudiya tradition of modern day and age, having spent some five decades steeped in raganuga bhajan on the banks of Radha Kund, but nevertheless concerned for the desire of Mahaprabhu for jubilantly spreading prema-dharma in this world.

 

In addition to his obvious high qualifications in Yugala bhajana, he is remarkably learned in Vaishnava scriptures, being himself the author of over a dozen long, thorough and illuminating commentaries on the granthas compiled by Gaudiya acaryas of the past. Anyone who visits Sri Radha Kund should take the chance for his darshan. His ashram is located almost on the banks of Radha Kund, next to Gopinatha Mandir and Raghunatha Das Gosvami's samadhi.

http://www.raganuga.com/baba/

[kailasa 0]

*** in 1959 from the same Acarya

Bhakti Prajnana Keshava Gosvami Maharaja.

 

Prabhupada: So He accepted spiritual... Not spiritual master, but a sannyasa-guru. That is also master, but he&#8217;s not spiritual master. But he&#8217;s also considered as sannyasa-guru, spiritual master who offers him sannyasa. Just like myself, I took initiation from my Guru Maharaja, but I took sanny&#1076;sa from a Godbrother who is a sannyasi.

 

***In an article entitled "Vedantavitta Krsna"in Sri Gaudiya Patirka in 1957

Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada writes

"Sri Gaudya Vedanta Samiti is working for the genuine welfare and auspiciousness of the world by preching bhakti-vedanta

and I consider it imperative for every Vaisnava

to cooperate with this Samiti."

 

"Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated January 1, 1973, and I am very glad to hear from you the wonderful news of travelling party in England. ....

So I can understand that it is not an easy matter to travel extensively over long periods of time without proper food, rest, and sometimes it must be very cold there also, and still, because you are getting so much enjoyment, spiritual enjoyment, from it, it seems like play to you. That is advanced stage of spiritual life, never attained by even the greatest yogis and so-called jyanis. But let any man see our devotees working so hard for Krishna, then let anyone say that they are not better than any millions of so-called yogis and transcendentalists, that is my challenge! Because you are rightly understanding through your personal realisation this philosophy of Krishna Consciousness, therefore in such a short time you have surpassed all the stages of yoga processes to come to the highest point of surrendering to Krishna. That I can very much appreciate, thank you very much for helping me in this way."

 

****because only a realized person can really understand

what another realized person wanted to tell in His books,

 

"So our request is that you don&#8217;t take this movement as something sentimental, religious faith. No. It is a very scientific, educational movement. Take advantage of it. That is our request. You can understand this movement by reading so many books. We have got about two dozen books like this. But we have got another alternative method which is very simple and easy. You chant ... gradually everything will be clear. So we are not selling this mantra, we are not asking any price for it. This Hare K&#1077;&#1089;&#1083;a mantra is open for everyone. So our request is that there is no loss on your part. You kindly take this mantra and chant. Begin chanting .... Then the result will be, gradually, all the misgivings within our heart will be cleansed. "

 

**** committing vaisnava aparadha.

 

Yes this real fall.

 

*******

 

There is a type of neophyte devotee who is very anxious to hear about the pastimes of the Lord, especially the rasa-lila chapters.... Such a devotee should know by this instruction that the pastimes of Prthu Maharaja are nondifferent from the pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. An ideal king, Prthu Maharaja exhibited all talents in showing how to rule the citizens, how to educate them, how to develop the state economically, how to fight enemies, how to perform great sacrifices (yaj&#1087;as), etc. Thus it is recommended for the sahajiy&#1076;, or the neophyte devotee, to hear, chant and get others to hear about the activities of Prthu Maharaja, even though one may think himself to be in the transcendental position of advanced devotional service.

 

The prak&#1077;ta-sahajiyas sometimes criticize pure devotees by calling them philosophers, learned scholars, knowers of the truth, or minute observers, but not devotees. On the other hand, they depict themselves as the most advanced, transcendentally blissful devotees, deeply absorbed in devotional service and mad to taste transcendental mellows. They also describe themselves as the most advanced devotees in spontaneous love, as knowers of transcendental mellows, as the topmost devotees in conjugal love of Krsna, and so on. Not actually knowing the transcendental nature of love of God, they accept their material emotions to be indicative of advancement. In this way they pollute the process of devotional service. To try to become writers of Vai&#1089;&#1083;ava literature, they introduce their material conceptions of life into pure devotional service. Because of their material conceptions, they advertise themselves as knowers of transcendental mellows, but they do not understand the transcendental nature of devotional service.

 

SBST comments that persons who are actually very poor because they possess not even a drop of love of Godhead or pure devotional service falsely advertise themselves as great devotees, although they cannot at any time relish the transcendental bliss of devotional service.

 

*******

 

My spiritual teacher teaches to spiritual science in the pure state. Therefore titles for this purpose are not necessary to me. When the spiritual life leaves, there are only titles and misinterpret the holy books.

 

******

 

So it is with any society, such as the International Society for Krishna Consciousness: If the members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, putting faith in K&#1077;&#1089;&#1083;a as the center, live in harmony according to the order and principles of

 

Bhagavad-gita

 

 

, then they are living in Vaikuntha, not in this material world.

 

**What is the meaning of Iskcon, and who is a member

> of Iskcon? Iskcon means the Internacional Society

> for Krishna Consciousness, and that devotee who is

> 100% Krishna conscious, he is a true and actual

> member of this society.

 

"Rather, every member of the K&#1077;&#1089;&#1083;a consciousness movement is interested in going door to door to try to convince people about the teachings of Bhagavad-g&#1081;t&#1076; As It Is, the teachings of Lord Caitanya. "

 

"The conclusion is that in order to get freed from the material disease, one must take to the chanting of the Hare K&#1077;&#1089;&#1083;a mantra. The K&#1077;&#1089;&#1083;a consciousness movement is especially meant for creating an atmosphere in which people can take to the chanting of the Hare K&#1077;&#1089;&#1083;a mantra. One must begin with faith, and when this faith is increased by chanting, a person can become a member of the Society. "

 

One ours mataji has left a body in Vrindavan and has returned to the God. Can to her worship - She already pure devotee, but at life here such certainly was not. Actually she always was in ecstasy. A part of attributes of ecstasy were always shown at her in kirtan. I do not know her rasa, but she was not in the parental relations probably.

[Guest guest]

The second-class devotee,

even though he cannot support his position with sastric reference,

can gradually become a first-class devotee by studying the sastras and

associating with a first-class devotee.

However, if the second-class devotee does not advance himself

by associating with a first-class devotee,

he makes no progress.

Madhya Lila 22.71

 

[anadi 0]

Objection

Prabhupada: So He accepted spiritual... Not spiritual master, but a sannyasa-guru. That is also master, but he's not spiritual master. But he's also considered as sannyasa-guru, spiritual master who offers him sannyasa. Just like myself, I took initiation from my Guru Maharaja, but I took sannysa from a Godbrother who is a sannyasi.

 

Refutation

One should't dare to minimize the one that really give the sannyasa mantra,

which is the transcendental sound of gopi mantra.

He is not less that one that give the transcendental sound of harinama and diksa and

later confidential bhajana -siksa.

In fact He is the same guru tattva,

the embodiment of the mercy of Krsna.

 

In 1968, on the disappearance of Srila Bhakti Prajnana Keshava Maharaja,

Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja said:

I did not want to accept this sannyasa order,

but this Godbrother forced me . You must.

He forcefully made me drink this medicine. Kripambudhi.

He did this favour to me

Because he was an ocean of mercy.

So we offer our obeisaces to the Vaisnavas the representatives of the Lord,

they are so kind.

They bring the ocean of mercy for distribution to the suffering humanity.

So I am offering my respectful obeisances unto His Holiness Sri Srimad Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja.

(From the Biography of Acarya Kesari Sri Srimad Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja)

 

 

[kailasa 0]

SP it is avesa avatara. Him no needs nothing, but He is follow all. Him no needs gopala mantra. It is needs for nitya baddha, not for nitya siddha.

 

Needs search (?) first class guru. Other hand person stay kanistha adhikari.

[anadi 0]

Ojection:

 

SP it is avesa avatara. Him no needs nothing, but He is follow all. Him no needs gopala mantra. It is needs for nitya baddha, not for nitya siddha.

 

Refutation:

 

Acording to this logic Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja even did not need diksha

from Srila Bhakti-siddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada and the second shloka of his Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami-vandana would be false

namas te sarsvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine

nirvisasa-sunyvadi-pascatya-desa tarine

Our respectul obeisances unto you,

O SERVANT of sarasvvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the MESSAGE OF GAURA and

...

 

The atempt to minimize

the sannyasa guru

or bhajana shiksa guru

comes from the lack of knowledge concerning the spiritual principle

called guru-tattva and especially

the truth about the guru (guru-tattva) in our sampradaya.

What is the speciality of our brahma-madva-gaudya sampradaya?

Oh, this speciality was given by the books of Srila Rupa Gosvami,

who is not different from Rupa manjari and

who understood the innermost desire of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

And all the gurus in our line follow Rupa Gosvami.

In Srila Prabupada Vandana, second shloka it is stated

madhuryojjvala-premadhya-sri-rupa-anuga-bhaktida

sri gaura karuna-sakti-vigrahaya namo'stu te

Again and again I offer obeisances unto Srila Sarasvati Thakura who is

the mercy incarnate of Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu (who descended upon the earth to bestow ujjvala-madhurya-rasa, full conjugal prema)

and who is the EMBODIMENT OF THE LINE of RUPA-ANUGA bhakti

 

All the gurus in our line are sakhis or manjaris,

loving servants of the servants of the divine couple Radha and Krsna,

as Srila Visvanatha Cakrsvarti Thakura says:

 

nikunja-yuno rati keli-siddhyai

ya yalibhir yuktir apeksaniya

tatrati daksyad ati-vallabhasya

 

Sri Gurudeva is always present with the sakhis

planning the arrangements for the perfection of yugala-kishora amorous pastimes

within the kunjas of Vrindavan.

Because he is so expert in making these tasteful arrangements for Their pleasure,

he is very dear to Sri Radha and Krsna.

 

This is our line of bhagavat-gurus, or sad-gurus.

In Sri Guru-rupa Sakhi-pranama it is said:

 

radha-sanmukha-samsaktim sakhi-sanga-nivasinim

tam aham satatam vande guru-ruupam param sakhim

I forever worship my guru ,

Who in his form as an exalted sakhi is happily immersed

In the company of Srimati Radhika and the other sakhis.

 

Only these gurus can give diksa and sannyasa mantra, which is gopi mantra

and can give confidential bhajana shiksa.

 

Should nobody think that Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami PrabhupadA,

didn't know this things. He is a Rupa-anuga, a follower of Rupa Gosvami.

Would he accept the gopi mantra from someone who were not qualified?

 

We are rupa-anugas,

not bhaktivinoda-anugas, or prabhupada-anugas (bhktisiddhanta-anugas),

even if we need their teachings, and must honour and praise them

but Rupa-Gosvami is the one that gave us the palace of rasa, which must be bild

on the the fundament of Jiva-Gosvami's Sad Sandarbas.

 

 

 

 

[raga 0]

 

We are rupa-anugas,

not bhaktivinoda-anugas, or prabhupada-anugas (bhktisiddhanta-anugas),

even if we need their teachings, and must honour and praise them

but Rupa-Gosvami is the one that gave us the palace of rasa, which must be bild

on the the fundament of Jiva-Gosvami's Sad Sandarbas.

 

 

How many of you have studied carefully all of the six Sandarbhas? Let's have a poll about the question.

 

<hr><FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="http://www.indiadivine.com/ubbthreads/dopoll.php"><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="pollname" VALUE="1032098361raga">

 

 

Have you read the entire Sat-Sandarbha?

<input type="radio" name="option" value="1" />Yes

<input type="radio" name="option" value="2" />No

<input type="radio" name="option" value="3" />Parts of it

<INPUT TYPE=Submit NAME=Submit VALUE="Submit vote" class="buttons"></form>

 

<hr>

[anadi 0]

I really mean it,

and I know, you know

is not prema, is like a ... , I

should say vaishnava, or simple bhakta empathy;

I have no translations of the six sandarbhas but I try to study carefully Srila Bhaktivinoda's Jaiva Dharma,

there are all the graaanthas

of our Gosvamis there.

So said Gurudeva

om visnupada paramahamsa parivrajakaacarya astotara sata sri srimad bhaktivedanta narayana maharaja.

 

You know, you are faire,

you have a good understandig,

even if gurudeva says that without realization this understanding is no understanding, or maybe you realized these things, but at least is no misconception there (apasiddhanta).

 

you are very dear to me,

please accept my humble obeisances,

I bow my head at your lotus feet.