Lord Jagannath's image on saree irks Hindus

[JRdd 0]

I have always been fascinated by tattoes, and did a study on them for my English folklore class. The other day while waiting at the Greyhound station I just had to pore over the photos in a tattoo magazine of a feloow passenger. It is always so stunning to me, horrifying and occasionally wondrous too. I kneow some elderly Gujerati women who got tattoes on their arms so that if they were kidnapped by the Muslims of that time, when they finally made it back home they would be recognised and accepted back into their families. I have friends with mantras tattoed on their arms. I have often wondered, if not for my innate fear of and disbelief in needles and other invasions on the body (what do devotees think of acupuncture?) if I would not also like to have such on my body when I died, the mahamantra I mean.

I know what you mean about vanity, Valaya. However I also think that it is good to be neat and a little prideful of one's appearance, especially when taking darshan of the Deities. And women--well, women like to decorate their bodies. This natural and there is no point in denying it if one in so inclined. I like to put on nice things even if I know I am not going to see anybody at all (which is the general norm in my lifestyle). Part of it is my artistic nature, liking to make things look nice (in my surroundings too, and on my altar, alwways changing things or making new things), but part of it is being a woman. And I really don't care if anyone frowns on me for that. Until I make further progress, this is what I am like.

 

gently, Jayaradhe

[amanpeter 0]

I know what you mean about vanity, Valaya. However I also think that it is good to be neat and a little prideful of one's appearance, especially when taking darshan of the Deities. And women--well, women like to decorate their bodies. This natural and there is no point in denying it if one in so inclined. I like to put on nice things even if I know I am not going to see anybody at all (which is the general norm in my lifestyle). Part of it is my artistic nature, liking to make things look nice (in my surroundings too, and on my altar, alwways changing things or making new things), but part of it is being a woman. And I really don't care if anyone frowns on me for that. <http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif> Until I make further progress, this is what I am like.

 

gently, Jayaradhe

 

This was not what I meant as vanity, prabhu. I like to watch the girls and women dancing for Krsna. Made up so beautifully, they always remind me of the gopis and inspire my worship!

 

It's what I consider to be too often an ostentatious display of supposed devotion, as if what is worn externally or branded onto the body automatically denotes a deeper attachment. Rather it may simply inspire an envious or copy-cat attitude on the part of others, which can divert our conciousness inappropriately.

 

That said, I have my own little external symbols to remind me of my true identity and who I belong to, which are obvious only to myself, and none of those do I depend on to save me at the time of death. That I must leave entirely up to His Divine Grace. JAI SRI RADHE! valaya

 

 

[amanpeter 0]

Originally posted by JRdd:

Yes I too was thinking the same thing about the images on sarees getting sat on, etc.

 

As for the T-shirts, is it better to advertise those Divine Forms for the benefit of others, or better not to wear them in the bathroom?

 

Until I have absolute conviction otherwise, I am sticking with avoiding the offense.

 

What seems significant to me is the motivation behind wearing these images, also whether they are actual diety photos or merely drawings. Certainly if we're out and about amongst the general public, they can provide preaching opportunities for those so inclined. When identifiable as a devotee, however, one is obliged to act like one.

 

My diety picture of Srimati Radharani is right here in my living/bedroom watching me 24/7. Sometimes I'm uncomfortable with that and cover Her up. Then I think of our relationship in such a close personal way that I remove the covering. I like to glance at Her from time to time, kind of like a wordless prayer. If you provide an address, I'll send a laserprint copy for your website (does size matter?).

 

Although it seems right to be constantly aware of our offensive nature,really it can drive one mad! I much prefer to contemplate the unlimited divine love which I see expressed in Lord Chaitanya, Prabhu Nityananda, and Sri Radhika. My time of discipleship is yet to come, I guess, and thinking of all the details involved in becoming a real vaisnava devotee completely overwhelms me. I bow before each and every one of you!!!

 

I'm simply hoping that somehow or other all will fall into place quite naturally in a future birth, for I'm well aware of the seed that has germinated in my heart-of-hearts. Love must find Her way...valaya

 

 

 

------------------

amanpeter@hotmail.com

[Maitreya 0]

Then there is this from The Teachings of Lord Caitanya:

To these thirty-five items, another four can be added: (1) marking one’s body with sandalwood pulp to show that one is a Vaisnava, (2) painting one’s body with the holy names of the Lord, (3) covering one’s body with the remnants of the Deity covers, (4) accepting caranämrta, the water which washes the Deity. These four additional items make thirty-nine items for devotional service in all,...

 

To be honest also one reason I have shyed away from permanent markings like tattoos is that you can be identified easily by govt.agencies.

 

Call me paranoid, but I took movies like Logan's Run,Farenhiet 451 etc. and the ideas

behind them seriously.My motto was always have an alias ready to go.

 

 

[JRdd 0]

I am the same way, actually. I do not want to go out of my way to make myself distinguishable in case of government takeover. I think my paranoia comes from my dreams. Once I was flying and when I landed at home they were in my house, capturing me for lab studies, for use in defense strategies. Another time they rounded me up after they'd got everyone else in England but me, and as they came toward me with the injection needle, I thought, just before I woke up, "They can take my body but they can't take my soul" and I woke up chanting Hare Krsna. But it was intense.

 

Valaya prabhu, I would like to respond to your posts but I can not think or write very analytically right now. consider the post on the gay thread a painting as I want it to jsut sit there like that for awhile and not elaborate, although I'm building up to it.

 

ys, JR

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

I just noticed this thread now, here is something I wrote on another forum in response to this article.

 

The local units of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and Bajrang Dal have also objected strongly to the controversial saris.

Even the VHP understands this point, but in ISKCON we wear harinama chadars hanging below the waste, t-shirts with Krishna and his name into the bathrooms, and bead bags with the mahamantra cut buy scisors so it can be stiched into a bag.

 

Has there been any objection to these practices within ISKCON in India?

I am familiar with one particular case, and that is the Guadiya Matha/ISKCON temple in Bhadrak, Orissa. It was originally a Gaudiya Matha, and later the "Acharya" donated it to ISKCON, while continuing as the resident sannyasi. There was a big problem there because of devotees wearing t-shirts with Krishna's picture in dirty places (there were other things, but this is what he complains about most often), and eventually the maharaja had banned western devotees from coming, and later took the temple back from ISKCON.

 

After years of trying to sort things out, he again gave the temple to ISKCON (two years ago), though he still criticizes the westerners heavily and openly.

 

[Jagat 1]

I don't think that one can equate the injuction to write the Holy Names on the body with gopi chandan and wearing an image of the Deity.

 

About painting the Holy Names on the body. This is to be done after passing stools and such and then bathing, so the body is pure. Since one supposedly leads a regulated life, one does not go into the toilet again.

 

No Vaishnava in his right mind would go into the toilet with a bead bag or Harinam chadar, nor would he or she place them on the floor, and that is the standard we should follow.

 

Jagat

[mahak 0]

Hey, I got an idea. Forget the tattoos. How about a beautiful pendant, very ornamental, that can be hung from various body piercings. Hung from eyebrows, ears, the nose, and they are easily removed when going to the "room of ill repute". But make sure they can be attached to a ring or stud already in place, because too much in and out on body piercings have a way of ruining the body hole.

 

If one is insistant on tattoos, try just ornamental designs. Then one could be the "temple room" rather than make the "Supreme Lord" part of the perishable body. If one has nice designs and flowers on the back or chest, then one could wear a medal or pendant depicting the Supreme Lord and His Associates atop the designs and have a 3-D effect.

 

You know what they say about tattoos. One could have "Maggie" tattooed on the chest and have great trouble years from now when his new bride, Melissa, sees it. Imagine the explanation one would have in twenty years when his born again christian wife sees Lord Nrsimha for the first time. A honeymoon of "premature exorcism", I am sure.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[amanpeter 0]

Enough already! Best decorate our personal vision of the Lord in our own hearts with the emotional attachments which are most pleasing and leave it at that. Anything else has the potential to distract/detract in one way or another. Exceptions can be made for public sankirtan/festivals as appropriate. valaya

[JRdd 0]

[Maitreya 0]

Originally posted by amanpeter:

This was not what I meant as vanity, prabhu. I like to watch the girls and women dancing for Krsna. Made up so beautifully, they always remind me of the gopis and inspire my worship!

 

Inspire what?Worship?Yeah right,that's why I watch them too.

 

 

[JRdd 0]

(tee hee)

Is that what some call dovetailing?

 

[Maitreya 0]

Originally posted by livingentity:

I would like to see at least that part of the show - when will it be on again?

Not sure le, it is a series called MSNBC Investigates.

 

The rest of the show is valueless.

 

[amanpeter 0]

Originally posted by JRdd:

(tee hee)

Is that what some call dovetailing?

Prabhupada tells us that electricity can be used to heat or cool. His Divine Grace is a master electrician! JAI RADHE! valaya

 

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-05-2001).]

[amanpeter 0]

Originally posted by Maitreya:

Inspire what?Worship?Yeah right,that's why I watch them too.

 

 

I find concentrating on the devotees' feet to be especially effective...everything depends on proper attitude. That is available through His Divine Grace, if you really want it. Diety worship from the heart is most helpful. What you see is what you get! JAI RADHE!!! valaya

 

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-05-2001).]

[Guest guest]

I love to see Kc tattoos on devotees and feel its an expression of love. Yes there are offenses but the Krishna con. preaching opportunities or Kc conversation starters which sometimes happen as a result of these tattoos and t-shirts may outrun the offences!? If they don't then this is the price an individual must pay to show the lord to the public eye in this way and also perhaps dove tail our material desires of the ink kind

p.s. I have , I was born in the darkest of ignorance/ om ajnana-tmirandhasya in devanagari and people often approach me about it . I plan on a few other prayers as well. there are many women in india with the names of the lord on their upper bodies and face . I have seen some stupid clothing with OM pants that a devotee wouldn't wear.

 

your servant

Manoharini Devi dasi