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Avinash

The form of God according to Quran

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This thread is just to discuss the form of God according to Quran. Let us keep the discussion relevant to the topic. All the arguments must be substantiated with appropriate verses from Quran.

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Posted by fayarus:

 

Regarding the form of God according to Islam, let me just quote a small chapter from Quran Chapter 112.

 

1 Say: He is God, the One and Only;

2 God, the Eternal, Absolute;

3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4 And there is none like unto Him.

 

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fayarus,

The verses 112.1 to 3 do not say anything about the form of God. Now consider 112.4:

 

"And there is none like unto Him."

 

This verse does not say that God has form; it also does not say that He has no form. It says that there is no one like Him. This may mean two things:

 

1. God has no form.

2. God has form but His form is completely different from that of anybody else.

 

Moreover, it may not be correct to assume that this verse talks only about the form of God. When it is said that there is like unto God, then it may also mean that nobody is as poweful as God.

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You are absolutely correct Avinash. According to Quran God has no form and He is unique. And according to Vedas God has no form and He is unique as I quoted earlier. And according to Bible also God has no form and He is unique. Deuteronomy Chapter 4, Verse 15-19. " Be most careful then, because you saw nothing at the time the Lord spoke to you at Horeb from the fire’s midst. I say this so you will not corrupt yourselves by making an image in the form of any kind of figure, the likeness of a human male or a female, of any kind of land animal, of a bird that flies in the sky, of any insect on the ground, or of any fish in the deep waters of the earth. It is also to guard you against looking up to the sky and seeing the sun, moon, and stars—the whole heavenly creation —and then being seduced by them to worship and serve them, things that the Lord your God has distributed among all the people of the world.

 

and read the New Testament also.

Mark 12:28,29 "Now one of the experts in the law came and heard them debating. When he saw that Jesus answered them well, he asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” Jesus answered, “The most important is: ‘Listen, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one."

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Fayarus,

 

Where does the bible say God is formless? It says God created man in his own image which implies God must look like a human being.

 

Like other people told you countless times on the other thread (whch you conveniently ignored), there are plenty of statements in the Vedas according to which God has a form.

 

So the Bible says God has a form, the Vedas say God has a form and in fact, according to what Avinash posted above, the Quran does not explicitly say God is formless. it is your interpretation and may very well be incorrect.

 

What next?

 

Cheers

 

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1275.1

99 Names of Allah

1. Allah

The One Who has the Godhood, which is the power to create the

entities.

2. Ar-Rahman

The One Who has an abundance of mercy for the believers and the

blasphemers in this world and exclusively for the believers in the

Hereafter.

 

3. Ar-Rahim

The One Who has an abundance of mercy for the believers.

 

4. Al-Malik

The One with absolute Dominion, and the One Whose Dominion is clear

of imperfection.

 

5. Al-Quddus

The One Who is pure from any imperfection and clear of children and

adversaries.

 

6. As-Salam

The One Who is clear of every imperfection.

 

7. Al-Mu'min

The One Who witnessed for Himself that no one is God but Him; and Who

witnessed for His believers that they are truthful in their belief

that no one is God but Him.

 

8. Al-Muhaymin

The One Who witnesses the saying and deeds of His creatures.

 

9. Al-^Aziz

The Defeater Who is not defeated.

 

10. Al-Jabbar

The One for Whom nothing happens in His dominion except what He

willed.

 

11. Al-Mutakabbir

The One Who is clear of the attributes of the creatures and of

resembling them.

 

12. Al- Khaliq

The One Who brings everything from non-existence to existence.

 

13. Al-Bari'

The Creator Who has the Power to turn the entities from one state to

another.

 

14. Al-Musawwir

The One Who forms His creatures in different pictures.

 

15. Al-Ghaffar

The One Who forgives the sins of His slaves time and time again.

 

16. Al-Qahhar

The Subduer Who has the perfect Power and is not powerless over

anything.

 

17. Al-Wahhab

The One Who is Generous in giving plenty without any return.

 

18. Ar-Razzaq

The One Who makes the Sustenance reach His slaves. Sustenance is

everything that benefits, whether halal or haram.

 

19. Al-Fattah

The One Who opens for His slaves the closed worldly and religious

matters.

 

20. Al-^Alim

The Knowledgeable; the One for Whom nothing is hidden from His

Knowledge.

 

21-22. Al-Qabid, Al-Basit

The One Who constricts the sustenance by His Wisdom and expands and

widens it with His Generosity and Mercy.

 

23-24. Al-Khafid, Ar-Rafi^

The One Who lowers whomever He willed by His Destruction and raises

whomever He willed by His Endowment.

 

25-26. Al-Mu^izz, Al-Mudhill

The One Who gives esteem to whomever He willed; hence there is no one

to degrade him. The One Who degrades whomever He willed; hence there

is no one to give him esteem.

 

27. As-Sami^

The One Who Hears all things that are heard by His Eternal Hearing

without an ear, instrument, or organ.

 

28. Al-Basir

The One Who Sees all things that are seen by His eternal Sight

without a pupil or any other instrument.

 

29. Al-Hakam

He is the Ruler, and His judgment is His Word.

 

30. Al-^Adl

The One Who is entitled to do what He does.

 

31. Al-Latif

The One Who is kind to His slaves and endows upon them.

 

32. Al-Khabir

The One Who knows the truth of things.

 

33. Al-Halim

The One Who delays the punishment for those who deserve it and then

He might forgive them.

 

34. Al-^Adhim

The One deserving the attributes of Exaltment, Glory, Extolement, and

Purity from all imperfection.

 

35. Al-Ghafur

The One Who forgives a lot.

 

36. Ash-Shakur

The One Who gives ample reward for a little obedience.

 

37. Al-^Aliyy

The One Who is clear of the attributes of the creatures.

 

38. Al-Kabir

The One Who is greater in status than everything.

 

39. Al-Hafidh

The One Who protects whatever and whomever He willed to protect.

 

40. Al-Muqit

The One Who has the Power.

 

41. Al-Hasib

The One Who gives the satisfaction.

 

42. Al-Jalil

The One Who is attributed with greatness of Power and Glory of status.

 

43. Al-Karim

The One Who is clear of abjectness.

 

44. Ar-Raqib

The One from Whom nothing is absent. Hence its meaning is related to

the attribute of Knowledge.

 

45. Al-Mujib

The One Who answers the one in need if he asks Him and rescues the

yearner if he calls upon Him.

 

46. Al-Wasi^

The Knowledgeable.

 

47. Al-Hakim

The One Who is correct in His doings.

 

48. Al-Wadud

The One Who loves His believing slaves and His believing slaves love

Him. His love to His slaves is His Will to be merciful to them and

praise them: Hence its meaning is related to the attributes of the

Will and Kalam (His attribute with which He orders and forbids and

with which He spoke to Muhammad and Musa. It is not a sound, nor a

language, nor a letter.)

 

49. Al-Majid

The One Who is with perfect Power, High Status, Compassion,

Generosity, and Kindness.

 

50. Al-Ba^ith

The One Who resurrects His slaves after death for reward and/or

punishment.

 

51. Ash-Shahid

The One from Whom nothing is absent.

 

52. Al-Haqq

The One Who truly exists, i.e., the One Whose Existence is confirmed.

 

53. Al-Wakil

The One Who gives the satisfaction and is relied upon.

 

54. Al-Qawiyy

The One with the complete Power.

 

55. Al-Matin

The One with extreme Power which is un-interrupted, and Who does not

get tired.

 

56. Al-Waliyy

The Supporter.

 

57. Al-Hamid

The praised One Who deserves to be praised.

 

58. Al-Muhsi

The One Who knows the count of things.

 

59. Al-Mubdi'

The One Who started the human being, that is, He created him.

 

60. Al-Mu^id

The One Who brings back the creatures after death.

 

61. Al-Muhyi

The One Who took out a living human from seminal fluid that does not

have a soul. He quickens the dead by giving the souls back to the

decayed bodies on the Resurrection Day and He makes the hearts alive

by the light of knowledge.

 

62. Al-Mumit

The One Who renders the living dead.

 

63. Al-Hayy

The One Who is attributed with a life that is unlike our life and is

not that of a combination of soul, flesh, and blood.

 

64. Al-Qayyum

The One Who remains and does not end.

 

65. Al-Wajid

The Rich Who is never poor. AlWajd is Richness.

 

66. Al-Majid

The One Who is Majid.

 

67. Al-Wahid

The One without a partner.

 

68. As-Samad

The Master Who is relied upon in matters and is resorted to in one's

needs.

 

69. Al-Qadir

The One Who is attributed with Power.

 

70. Al-Muqtadir

The One with the perfect Power from Whom nothing is withheld.

 

71-72. Al-Muqaddim, Al-Mu'akhkhir

The One Who puts things in their right places. He makes ahead

whatever He wills and delays whatever He wills.

 

73. Al-'Awwal

The One whose Existence is without a beginning.

 

74. Al-'Akhir

The One whose Existence is without an end.

 

75-76. Adh-Dhahir, Al-Batin

The One above Whom nothing exists and underneath Whom nothing exists;

hence He exists without a place. His Existence is obvious by proofs.

He is clear of the delusions of bodily attributes.

 

77. Al-Wali

The One Who owns things and manages them.

 

78. Al-Muta^ali

The One Who is clear of the attributes of the creation.

 

79. Al-Barr

The One Who is kind to His creatures, Who covered them with His

sustenance and specified whomever He willed among them by His

support, protection, and special mercy.

 

80. At-Tawwab

The One Who grants repentance to whomever He willed among His

creatures and accepts his repentance.

 

81. Al-Muntaqim

The One Who victoriously prevails over His enemies and punishes them

for their sins. It may mean the One Who destroys them.

 

82. Al-^Afuww

The One with wide forgiveness.

 

83. Ar-Ra'uf

The One with extreme Mercy. The Mercy of Allah is His Will to endow

upon whomever He willed among His creatures.

 

84. Malikul-Mulk

The One Who controls the dominion and gives dominion to whomever He

willed.

 

85. Dhul-Jalal Wal-'Ikram

The One Who deserves to be Exalted and not denied.

 

86. Al-Muqsit

The One Who is Just in His judgment.

 

87. Al-Jami^

The One Who gathers the creatures on a day there is no doubt about,

that is, the Day of Judgment.

 

88. Al-Ghaniyy

The One Who does not need the creation.

 

89. Al-Mughni

The One Who satisfies the necessities of the creatures.

 

90. Al-Mani^

The Supporter Who protects and gives victory to His pious believers.

 

91-92. Ad -Darr, An-Nafi^

The One Who makes harm reach to whomever He willed and benefit to

whomever He willed.

 

93. An-Nur

The One Who guides.

 

94. Al-Hadi

The One with Whose Guidance His believers were guided, and with Whose

Guidance the living beings have been guided to what is beneficial for

them and protected from what is harmful to them.

 

95. Al-Badi^

The One Who created the creation and formed it without any preceding

example.

 

96. Al-Baqi

The One for Whom the state of non-existence is impossible.

 

97. Al-Warith

The One Whose Existence remains.

 

98. Ar-Rashid

The One Who guides.

 

99. As-Sabur

The One Who does not quickly punish the sinners.

 

and Allah knows best.

 

Source -

http://forums.delphiforums.com/Islamic1/messages?msg=1275.1

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Fayarus:

 

I hope you have read the Hadiths. There is an instance when Mohammad is taken to the heavens and he gets a vision of Allah. Did he see a formless God? If so, how did he "see" him? In case you are not sure of what I am talking about, please consult more knowledgeable Muslims. If you still can't locate it, please let me know and I will tell you where to find it.

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Fayarus wrote in another thread:

See the Adam was made in teh image of God, its there in the Bible, but not in Quran. Its christain they believe so. But we Muslim do not believe that.

Fair enough. I do agree, however, with what Avinash has written that the verses as presented do not say that God has no form. But it is possible that the subtlety of the language doesn’t bring out this point in English. For instance, my Jewish friend at work pointed out (and I’ve mentioned it here before) that in Genesis, when it says “And God created the heavens, and the earth, the aquatics, and birds etc…..” that in Hebrew a specific word for God is used. It’s a subtle point in Judaic philosophy, but there are two words for God. One is God the person, and another form of God is God within nature. He points out that it is actually “And the God within nature created the heavens, and the earth etc….”. It’s an interesting point about the complexities of translating philosophical points into a foreign language.

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Some Muslims do not consider hadiths as authorities on Islam. If fayarus is one of such Muslims, then we can not provide arguments from hadiths.

 

[This message has been edited by Avinash (edited 07-18-2002).]

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Peace be with you.

 

Some letter's & words... {Qur'anic Wisdom }

 

The Most Selfish One-Letter Word "I" Avoid It

(Surah Al Kahf 18:34)

 

The Most Satisfying Two-Letter Word "WE" Use It

 

Surah Al An'am 6:71-72

 

The Most Poisonous Three-Letter Word "EGO" Kill It

 

Surah Al Qasas 28:78

 

The Most Used Four-Letter Word "LOVE" Value It

 

(Surah Al Rum 30:21)

 

The Most Pleasing Five Letter Word "SMILE" Keep It

 

(Surah Al Najm 53:43)

 

The Fastest Spreading Six-Letter Word "RUMOUR" Ignore It

 

(Surah Al Hujurat 49:12)

 

The Hardest Working Seven Letter Word "SUCCESS" Achieve It

 

(Surah Al Nur 24:37-38)

 

The Most Enviable Eight-Letter Word "JEALOUSY" Distance It

 

(Surah Yusuf 12:8-9)

 

The Most Powerful Nine-Letter Word "KNOWLEDGE" Acquire It

 

(of Allah & the Holy Qu'ran) Surah Ya Sin 36:2 Surah Yusuf 12:2

 

The Most Essential Ten-Letter Word "CONFIDENCE" Trust It

 

(Trust in Allah's Guidance) Surah Yunus 10: 9 Surah Al Tawbah 9:51

 

source:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/islamispeace/messages?msg=216.1

 

<center>Posted Image

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From Quran:

 

89:28. "Come back thou to thy Lord,- well pleased (thyself), and well-pleasing unto Him!

 

If Lord is pervading everywhere and has no form, then everybody is already with Lord. What is the meaning of 'Come back thou to thy Lord?'

 

64:15. Your riches and your children may be but a trial: but in the presence of Allah, is the highest, reward.

 

Again if Allah is present everywhere and He does not have a form, then everybody is having the reward of being in the presence of Allah.

 

67:16. Do ye feel secure that He Who is in heaven will not cause you to be swallowed up by the earth when it shakes (as in an earthquake)?

 

67:17. Or do ye feel secure that He Who is in Heaven will not send against you a violent tornado (with showers of stones), so that ye shall know how (terrible) was My warning?

 

If Allah is everywhere and is formless, then what is the meaning of 'He Who is in heaven'?

 

11: 4. 'To Allah is your return, and He hath power over all things.'"

 

Again, if Allah is everywhere and is formless, then we are already with Allah. Why 'To Allah is your return'?

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The Ultimate, formless and timeles

 

If the Brahman is the ultimate, and Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva are the primary forms of Brahman, then why are such forms capable of doing very human things.

 

For example, the gods kill. I understand that they may be killing not out of anger or hatred, but are merely following the "Law of Karma." Still, however they kill.

 

Also, if they do not kill out of anger or hatred, why is it that Shiva kills Kama in a scripture. Kama supposedly shoots Shiva with a love arrow, and Shiva becomes enraged, opens his third eye, and turns Kama into a heap of ashes.

 

Thus, I have concluded that only the Brahman is timeless, formless, and all-powerful. When it embodies an anthropomorphic form, like Shiva is portrayed in the story above, then it becomes imperfect, and is capable of doing imperfect things. However, if experienced correctly, the Brahman may be able to be used for the moral good of humanity. Afterall, realizing the truth is merely the personal goal of each individual man. However, if a man benefits mankind for the better, then he truly has realizes not the truth of the absolute, but the truth of the existence of man. In the end, we are here as mere mammals, and we must evolve to eventually merge into Brahman.

 

[Linked article copied-jndas]

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 07-25-2002).]

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Exodus 33: 21-23 : And the Lord said, “Behold, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock,.and while my glory passes by I will put you in a the left of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by..Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen." This verse and many other verse in the Torah suggest that God has a form. Since the Christians and Muslims accept the Torah they have to accept this fact as well.

@Sha : pls stop quoting irrevelant facts. The Puranas describe stories that are mythological for moral messages only. The burning of Kamadev means that we should overcome lust. Even a child will understand this simple fact. Your 99 names of your god doesn't shed any light to the topic above.

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