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Originally posted by Rati:

Just because Jijaji has not met any Westerners that he considers to be absorbed in bhajan to an acceptable level does not mean that they are not out there. When looking for examples we need to look to those that are exemplary and not just point out those that are less than exemplary in order to judge a whole tradition. I think that Jijaji has read about Ronald Nixon, a British subject that lived in the 20th century and became a rasika saint in the Gaudiya tradition. Perhaps he forgot to consider that counter example.

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-25-2002).]

Perhaps I did forget....but still that shows how few are capable of practicing this esoteric system.

 

BTW....do you chant, meditate or do any actual practice on regular basis?

 

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Jagat:

 

Though chanting a lakh is a very honorable ambition, not many people have the 4-6 hours it takes to chant this much. Does that mean they are to give up any hope of engaging in raganuga bhajan?

Of course not. But let us not forget the ambition to do it some day in the future.

 

Jijaji:

 

In all those years I am YET to find any western followers who have taken diksha and received information regarding their Siddha-deha ..who actually daily practice this technique.

I suggest you go to Radhakund, for instance, looking for them. I'm not saying they may not be out there in the cyberspace, but given that Rupa Gosvamipada recommends living in Vraja instead of living in the cyberspace for raganuga sadhakas, Vraja might be a better location for a serious search. Posted Image

 

Jagat:

 

I would like to see this discussion take place on the Raganuga discussion board.

You are cordially invited. We have a thread called "Raganuga Tradition, the Western World", opened with the following sentence of Ananga, and waiting for contributions.

 

"What we need to do here is brainstorm to come up with some good ideas of how to present the raganuga tradition accurately to the Western world (the Indians are already going to be able to relate to it inherently) and without alienating them."

 

http://raganuga.org/cgi-bin/raga/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=2&t=14

 

Feel free to start new threads on any Raganuga topic as well.

 

_ _ _ _ _ _

 

PS. Is it that this server is so bogged down with traffic that sometimes I get "Connection Timed Out" several times before being able to post, or is the IndiaDivine server the only one to which I can't properly connect?

 

 

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What this discussion has come to, is something that I think needs some clarification,because there is a lot of interest in the subject,and a lot of research has been done by different vaisnavas.

This interest in meditation on a "inner spiritual form",is not neccesary for the raganuga bhakta.

Raganuga bhakti is devotion based on affection,spontaneous love,unregulated,unrestrained.

Like the devotee who becomes consumed with some aspect of Vaisnava sadhana,like Diety worship,the practice of the so called raganuga sadhana can be a cleansing process,but is not neccesary to become a raganuga bhakti.

The practice of sadhana of any type, is contrary to the needs of the raganuga bhakti.

The raganuga bhakti is living in the transcendental realm,it is the goal of bhakti,not the means.

The raganuga bhakti is aware of his/her eternal transcendental rasa,and is living in that mode.

This does not mean that the "raganuga sadhana" is useless,but there is a misunderstanding of what it is,and what it isn't.

What it is,is a purifying process,though not absolutley neccesary.

The raganuga bhakti is not engaged in this, or any sadhana,except as an example for others.

What is the goal of any sadhana?

The goal is to realize the eternal, transcendental nature of the soul.

The unique mercy of Sri Gauranga is that he is bringing the highest realm,the topmost realization,to the material realm,directly.

His pastimes,which are eternal,are the entrance fee into that special divine dispensation.You simply need to pay the fee,then inconcievably, you have entered into Goloka.

This is the special mercy for the age of Kali,meditation,austerities,sacrifice,these activities are not necessary.

The sankirtan lila,is in fact the highest realm,the devotee engaged in the sankirtan lila,has transformed his so-called material body,into a spiritual form.

His realization might not be fully complete,yet the special mercy of Sri Gauranga,has given the devotee entrance into the highest realm.

The residents of Goloka, are the factual residents of Vraja.

This is the transcendental mystical reality of Goloka.

The pastimes of Audharya,munifecence,distribution of the sweetest thing,neccesarily must take place in the "material world".

Goloka is divided into two transcendental lilas,Audharya,and Madhurya.

The distribution of the sweetest thing,and the tasting of the sweetest thing,divine love.

This is the special mercy of Mahaprabhu,bringing the highest realm,to the most fallen.

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Originally posted by theist:

During the eight different phases of the day does a practioner have eight different meditations that they perform in conjunction with those times.

 

I am having a hard time conceiving of how this practice could fit into our modern world.Is it not just for babaji's? Or at least those who are able to dedicate the whole day to this cultivation?

During the "eight phases" of the day, the sadhaka contemplates on the daily pastimes of Radha-Krishna and participates according to her service. Have a look at Rupa Gosvami's Sri Sri Radha-Krishnayor Asta-kaliya-lila-smarana-manga-stotram to get an outline of what is going on at each time. http://raganuga.org/meditations.html > Asta-kaliya-lila . Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami has elaborately described the asta-kaliya-lila in his Govinda-lilamrta, using these verses as the basis, and also Visvanatha Cakravarti has compiled his Krishna Bhavanamrta to aid the sadhakas' meditation. Later, Siddha Krishnadasa also compiled the Gaura-Govinda-Lilamrta-Gutika, where he combined the asta-kaliya-lila of Mahaprabhu and Radha-Krishna into one book.

 

You'll get a basic idea of the daily meditation from Dhyanacandra's paddhati available at http://raganuga.org/literature.html , translated by Haricaranadasa.

 

It is a fact that complete absorption in raganuga-bhajana is not very easy in the West. It is not for nothing that the Gosvamis have advised, "tisthan vraje", "kuryad vasam vraje sada", "mathura-vase" etc. in their writings. Not that our time in the West is all good for nothing, that's not what I am saying, but it is a different thing to be on the banks of Radhakund or on the foot of Govardhan, surrounded by stimulus for Radha-Krishna-smarana, without any other engagements.

 

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Originally posted by jijaji:

Perhaps I did forget....but still that shows how few are capable of practicing this esoteric system.

 

BTW....do you chant, meditate or do any actual practice on regular basis?

 

Posted Image

 

Not even taking the esoteric practice into consideration, very few can do the nama-japa at an intense level. Since you asked, I achieved a level of 128 rounds a day while living in India, and was able to maintain that for a six month stretch. While living in America, I tailor it to the lifestyle here. However, I do not see your point. Even if one is doing the standard recommended 64 rounds a day, does that mean they are doing those without committing any of the ten offenses? Is it not more a question of quality than quantity?

 

Besides, I do not think doing a high number of rounds gives anyone bragging rights and usually do not mention it (I do so only because of your insistence on knowing).

 

 

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As a householder, I am busy with my work, which fortunately requires me to translate Gaudiya Vaishnava literature. I consider this work to be nicely connected to my sadhana.

 

As far as anything besides this, I chant my mantras and Harinam for 30 to 40 minutes each day. So I suppose I fall quite short of what a serious sadhaka would be expected to do.

 

To some extent this Internet association inspires me to engage in such sadhana, so I thank you all.

 

======

 

I agree that the Babaji type of 24-hour meditation is not something that an ordinary householder in the middle of the karma centered Western lifestyle could possibly do.

 

For most people the best option is to get a strong samskara. By this I mean that you should try to go through at least a significant period of time where you do follow the "Babaji" lifestyle in retreats, either in India, or if it is ever possible, in the West, where you can actually cultivate the consciousness. At present, the only real opportunity to do this is in Radha Kund, so most people who are interested in this kind of meditation go there.

 

Once a samskara has been strongly imprinted on the brain, it is much easier to engage in raganuga meditation. Smells, sounds, previously experienced bhavas, etc., return quite easily. Certainly theoretic discussions and arguments about the validity of a particular practice are not nearly as helpful.

 

I personally had the good fortune to spend several years in the Dhams, often in close association with devotees like Ananta Das Babaji, through whom I had the fortune to engage in hearing and chanting on a very high level.

 

I know that Advaita Dasji and Gadadhar Pran Dasji and several others have been similarly fortunate in having profound experiences in their personal spiritual adventures. Despite the misadventures of all lowly human beings who seek the heights of divine love, I believe these people are Mahatmas.

 

So we pray that our circle should be enlarged. Until then, we go where there are still some drops of nectar to be had. So we loiter at the periphery of the Gaudiya Math, especially where Narayan Maharaj speaks about Radha-dasya. I even take delight in those who glorify the Divine Couple, such as Jai Sri Radhe, for much of what she says resonates with me.

 

These are all our cousins, not quite our brothers and sisters; so though we feel like part of the family, we often feel deprived of intimacy. Our hearts are in Radha Kund, and that is what is most important for us.

 

Ys, Jagat

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Originally posted by shiva:

What this discussion has come to, is something that I think needs some clarification,because there is a lot of interest in the subject,and a lot of research has been done by different vaisnavas.

This interest in meditation on a "inner spiritual form",is not neccesary for the raganuga bhakta.

Raganuga bhakti is devotion based on affection,spontaneous love,unregulated,unrestrained.

Like the devotee who becomes consumed with some aspect of Vaisnava sadhana,like Diety worship,the practice of the so called raganuga sadhana can be a cleansing process,but is not neccesary to become a raganuga bhakti.

The practice of sadhana of any type, is contrary to the needs of the raganuga bhakti.

The raganuga bhakti is living in the transcendental realm,it is the goal of bhakti,not the means.

Shiva, thanks for the helping hand in clarifying the whole thing for us, but... where did you learn this philosophy of yours? Have you studied Caitanya Caritamrta and Raga-vartma-candrika? If not, please study at your early convenience and then get back to clarifying the situation on raganuga-bhakti.

 

The raganuga bhakti is living in the transcendental realm,it is the goal of bhakti,not the means.

For the record, it is ragatmika-bhakti which exists in the hearts of the residents of the transcendental realm, and devotion following in the wake of their devotion is called raganuga. Raganuga is devotion in the stage of practice. Please do study CC and RVC to get the basics together -- as your first project please.

 

 

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So many of these esoteric practices need to be renewed so to speak to fit into ther modern world. So few can go to such places as Radha-Kunda and sit for Bhajan.

 

I also feel many of the outdated outlooks towards women and sex incrusted in the religious systems where these esoteric practices come from need to be updated as well.

 

The first update should be that men and women don't need to be separated!

In fact it is a violence in of itself.

 

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In the Caitanya Caritamrta,we can read of Mahaprahbus attitude toward any type of sadhana.

For his intimate associates, he required them to be free from rules and regulations,he only desired affection, free from adulation, worshipfullness,and trepidation.

In fact he sent the 6 Goswamis of Vrndavana,to Vrndavana for this reason.

Not that they were not eligible for the intimate rasa with Sri Caitanya,but as an example.

The 6 Goswamis were in the role of sadhakas,they would therefore spoil the rasa of the intimate nature, desired in navadwip,and puri.

This is the nature of Mahaprabhus intimates,They are not trying to attain anything,that is actual raganuga,rasa in relation to the supreme.

The residents of the transcendental realm are of a variety,there are sadhakas,sadhus,and many other types of people, like devotees of Mahadeva,among others.

The transcendental realm is not limited to a pie in the sky,it descends,here.

The residents of Goloka,do not need to meditate on an inner form,the form they have is transcendental,they do not waste time indulging in activities, that distract them from the actual transcendental activities, and pastimes they are engaged in.

This is the realization of scriptural knowledge.

The reality of sastra,is that wisdom,the realization of knowledge,is flowing down.

The transcendental lila of Sri Gauranga is superior, to all other methods of God realization.

The sastra is giving guidance, to fullfill the myriad needs, of different people.

The medicine that works for one,may not be applicable to another.

This is the purpose of sastric injunctions,and the need for the variety of sadhanas.

The realization of oneself,as the eternal servant of the servant,is the highest realization,and goal.

The important thing is that you understand,the only qualification,for the association of Sri Caitanya,and Sri Radha Krsna,is to feel yourself lower then the straw in the street,more humble then a blade of grass,and ready to offer obeisences to all.

 

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Shiva:

 

In the Caitanya Caritamrta,we can read of Mahaprahbus attitude toward any type of sadhana.

For his intimate associates, he required them to be free from rules and regulations,he only desired affection, free from adulation, worshipfullness,and trepidation.

Could you kindly provide reference for this? For all I can recall, Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommends sadhana left and right to everyone. Read his teachings on sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana in the Madhya-lila.

 

In fact he sent the 6 Goswamis of Vrndavana,to Vrndavana for this reason.

Not that they were not eligible for the intimate rasa with Sri Caitanya,but as an example.

The 6 Goswamis were in the role of sadhakas,they would therefore spoil the rasa of the intimate nature, desired in navadwip,and puri.

For the record, Raghunatha Dasa Gosvami spent sixteen years with Mahaprabhu in Puri, in his close association. Mahaprabhu was very fond of Raghunatha?s strict adherence to sadhana. Moreover, it is well known that Mahaprabhu Himself played the role of a sadhaka!

 

Besides, Mahaprabhu left the task of establishing the path of proper practice for His followers to the Gosvamis. If you wish to advocate a path other than that of the Gosvamis, please let us know the lineage through which this path has descended to you.

 

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Rati...

 

You prove my point very well....

you are the 'living proof'in fact...

that raganuga bhajana is not a practical spiritual practice for the mass of humanity in this day and age.

Many seek affiliation with ancient traditions and lines that give complex esotetic practices and teachings because it is a replacement for realization.

To have spiritual awakening is no easy or common thing, so seekers gravitate to a tradition that clams to possess the 'Highest' or most intimate or most secret teachings etc etc etc.

This is simply a SUBSTITUTE for realizing the 'TRUTH' itself.

It's like 'Fundy Christians' who say all ya gotta do is 'BEIEVE'...

 

not that easy sahibji..

 

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[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-25-2002).]

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You prove my point very well....

you are the 'living proof'in fact...

that raganuga bhajana is not a practical spiritual practice for the mass of humanity in this day and age.

Many seek affiliation with ancient traditions and lines that give complex esotetic practices and teachings because it is a replacement for realization.

To have spiritual awakening is no easy or common thing, so seekers gravitate to a tradition that clams to possess the 'Highest' or most intimate or most secret teachings etc etc etc.

 

Having said all that, what's your substitute for us who try to practice the impractical path of raganuga bhajana? Do you have a path to offer, or do we join the club of armchair philosophers in the end?

 

 

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Originally posted by jijaji:

Rati...

 

You prove my point very well....

you are the 'living proof'in fact...

that raganuga bhajana is not a practical spiritual practice for the mass of humanity in this day and age.

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-25-2002).]

I never thought I personally was the living proof of anything. Just because I never took up the practice of lila smaran and only really have experience with japa meditation does not preclude me from ever successfully taking it up in the future. If I had attempted it and it turned out to be too difficult, then perhaps that might have proven something. That is still all a bunch of hypotheticals: If this, if that.

 

Besides, who has ever advocated raganuga bhajan for the masses? Nobody I have ever heard of. Rup, Sanatan, Jiv or Visvanath propagated harinam sankirton for the masses, but never the esoteric practices, nor have any recent Gaudiya gurus. You waste time arguing against persons that do not even exist. OK, if you want to spend your time that way, that's cool with us.

 

As far as your comments about repression of women, that was as rampant (if not more so) in the West as it has been in the East. It may not seem that way, only because the women's movement that began with the struggle for the right to vote in America got under way here first and now is fairly new in India. But, you will have to admit that progress has been made in India. Most women work outside the home, which is not so commonplace in the Arab countries.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-25-2002).]

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Originally posted by jijaji:

Rati...

 

Many seek affiliation with ancient traditions and lines that give complex esotetic practices and teachings because it is a replacement for realization.

To have spiritual awakening is no easy or common thing, so seekers gravitate to a tradition that clams to possess the 'Highest' or most intimate or most secret teachings etc etc etc.

 

 

Posted Image

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-25-2002).]

Of course many may gravitate to the path of bhakti for the wrong reasons. However, they are bound to derive the benefits, nonetheless. Does the zAstra not state that even if one inadvertantly chants the holy name, and even if one does so unknowingly, that it still purifies that person? So the tourist driving in his car that says, "Oh look, there's a Ramada Inn", is in fact making spiritual advancement. No complex process or rituals involved there.

 

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On the contrary, Jijaji, though what you say has some merit, there is value to doing even the smallest bit of practice. That was the point of my previous post.

 

Chanting 64 rounds while meditating constantly is not the only aspect of the practice. Hearing and chanting about Radha and Krishna is also of great importance.

 

There is also a great deal of value in simple identification itself. What I believe I am is almost as important as what I do, and the latter will follow on the former if it is strong enough.

 

I think there is a fundamental distinction in the way that Raganuga Bhaktas think about the world; one that would no doubt come closer to your way of seeing it, I think.

 

Focusing on the Divine Couple, in particular the "Female Moiety" will give a thoughtful devotee a different perspective on the world, one that gives predominance to the virtues that have traditionally been called feminine. The arguments that Raganuga devotees sometimes get into seems to rather go against the spirit of the thing, but on the whole, I see a general maturing of those devotees who are involved in this path.

 

I humbly pray to all the devotees and to every divine power that exists to be able to meet the ideals that are immanent in the Divine Couple and Their worship.

 

Many of those involved with Raganuga worship happen to be intellectuals who have come to Raganuga through an intellectual journey. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is not true Raganuga. This explains somewhat why their practice has been unsteady. Nevertheless, their influence on Gaudiya Vaishnavism as a whole is disproportional to their numbers and this influence is salutary.

 

Yours,

 

Jagat

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Originally posted by Jagat:

On the contrary, Jijaji, though what you say has some merit, there is value to doing even the smallest bit of practice. That was the point of my previous post.

 

>no doubt a small amont of practice will benefit ..I agree.

 

Chanting 64 rounds while meditating constantly is not the only aspect of the practice. Hearing and chanting about Radha and Krishna is also of great importance.

 

>Yes...

 

There is also a great deal of value in simple identification itself. What I believe I am is almost as important as what I do, and the latter will follow on the former if it is strong enough.

 

> I question that...my thinking is what

'I do'

is more important that what

'I believe I am'...

 

>You can only judge a person on their actions not on what they believe about themselves.

 

I think there is a fundamental distinction in the way that Raganuga Bhaktas think about the world; one that would no doubt come closer to your way of seeing it, I think.

 

> again perhaps...

although I still see some dogma in their acceptance of orthodox Gaudiya doctrine.

 

Focusing on the Divine Couple, in particular the "Female Moiety" will give a thoughtful devotee a different perspective on the world, one that gives predominance to the virtues that have traditionally been called feminine. The arguments that Raganuga devotees sometimes get into seems to rather go against the spirit of the thing, but on the whole, I see a general maturing of those devotees who are involved in this path.

 

> Well time is the great equalizer right?

 

I humbly pray to all the devotees and to every divine power that exists to be able to meet the ideals that are immanent in the Divine Couple and Their worship.

 

>Ok

 

Many of those involved with Raganuga worship happen to be intellectuals who have come to Raganuga through an intellectual journey. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is not true Raganuga. This explains somewhat why their practice has been unsteady. Nevertheless, their influence on Gaudiya Vaishnavism as a whole is disproportional to their numbers and this influence is salutary.

 

> It can be seen like that yes, another way is how I see it and that is that the orthodox practices of Raganuga/Siddha Pranali/leela smaranam are not suited for the spiritual needs of modern man and women. And that is why perhaps people who have taken diksha into that system have not been able to practice and assimilate into their daily lives. To say it is because they are intellectuals does not explain why there is no practice in their daily lifes of the system they belong to.

 

Yours,

 

Jagat

Posted Image

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-25-2002).]

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Originally posted by Rati:

I never thought I personally was the living proof of anything. Just because I never took up the practice of lila smaran and only really have experience with japa meditation does not preclude me from ever successfully taking it up in the future.

 

> Yes I have heard this before as well from those who have taken diksha but do not have much of a practice i.e.

 

>"Well I have that connection and can always take it up later"

 

> That just makes my point regarding belonging to a certain line/group etc as a replacement for realization.

 

>Better to have a simple practice you can do 'NOW' because 'NOW' is 'ALL' we have...

It's like..."Well one day I'll start goin to church....but I believe now, I believe!!"

 

If I had attempted it and it turned out to be too difficult, then perhaps that might have proven something. That is still all a bunch of hypotheticals: If this, if that.

 

>OK

 

Besides, who has ever advocated raganuga bhajan for the masses? Nobody I have ever heard of. Rup, Sanatan, Jiv or Visvanath propagated harinam sankirton for the masses, but never the esoteric practices, nor have any recent Gaudiya gurus. You waste time arguing against persons that do not even exist. OK, if you want to spend your time that way, that's cool with us.

 

> Understand I not saying you advocate it for the masses..don't put words in my mouth. I am saying the masses need something different than such an esoteric difficult practice...ya get me??

 

 

As far as your comments about repression of women, that was as rampant (if not more so) in the West as it has been in the East.

 

> you think so huh...?

 

It may not seem that way, only because the women's movement that began with the struggle for the right to vote in America got under way here first and now is fairly new in India. But, you will have to admit that progress has been made in India. Most women work outside the home, which is not so commonplace in the Arab countries.

 

>Well progress for women in India came about from people like Ram Mohan Rao not by religious founders generally. Look at Sri Chaitanya, he kind of set the tone in the Gaudiya Vaishnava faith by his attitudes regarding women and his action toward Chota Haridas especially.

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-25-2002).]

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> Understand I not saying you advocate it for the masses..don't put words in my mouth. I am saying the masses need something different than such an esoteric difficult practice...ya get me??

Rati didn't say you said he said it. Posted Image

 

OK, we agree. The masses need something different. How about -- nama-kirtan, prasadam, some simple Vedantic truths? A happy religious life, some little puja? Like most people who follow the family guru - Gosvamis in India; they don't jump into the esotera. They're "around".

 

And in the course of time, the masses refine into the classes, and some are actually qualified and eager to take up the refined, esoteric practices, and.... they actually become successful.

 

manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye yatatam api siddhanam kascin mam vetti tattvatah bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah

 

How about that to begin with in our series of simple Vedantic truths? And now everybody out there, all together,

 

Haraye Namah Krishna Yadavaya Namah

Gopal Govinda Ram Sri Madhusudan

 

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

And bake some potatoes and cook some rice, place them in front of a picture of Krishna, and say, "Please Krishna take this offering of mine", and wait a few minutes, and then partake of the Lord's prasadam.

 

And live a happy religious life!

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Yea..

 

Make everyone in the world into Gaudiya Vaishnavas, a scarry way to think.

Of course you did include that people could get involved in Vedanta in the early on stages, but I am sure the Vedanta school would see that scenario much differently!

They see Bhakti as a means to unqualified Brahman realization....

What if they stuck with that angle and didn't want to move on to the Bhakti and started telling you that Brahman realization was the goal of Bhakti..?

 

What then..? Posted ImagePosted Image

 

the endlessness of it all...!

 

Posted Image

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-26-2002).]

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What I said,is not my interpretation.

It is the factual words of the authorized guru's.

If you study the Caitanya Caritamrta,you will find that the intimate devotees of Mahaprabhu,were not engaged in any fantasy,they were dealing with the here and now.

The truth of Mahaprabhu's attitude toward sadhaka's of any type,is revealed in the Caritamrta,and the writings of the acarya's,if you don't take my word for it,investigate,those sources,I am only repeating what i have read,including the sending of the Goswamis away,yes,ragunath was with him for some time,that does not change the truth.

The fantasy meditation techniques,are bonafide,so are the practices of Saivites,Jews ,christains,Yogi's etc.

They are all part of the path God has led each individual to.

This does not mean that Mahaprabhus followers need to follow raj-yoga,christain penance,jewish holidays and fasting,or muslim kowtows.

While they are all bonafide,the sankirtan yagna,is transcendental to all religious practice.

This includes the fantasy techniques of the vaisnava babas.

The meditational path is of a lower quality,it 's aim is to purify the consciouness of the sadhaka,it is not the goal of bhakti.

The devotee engaged in the congregational chanting,this is not simply harinam kirtan,this sankirtan yagna,is the society of devotees congregationally distributing the message of Sri Gauranga.

This is the sankirtan yagna,it is the goal of bhakti,life in the transcendental realm,engaged in reciprocal rasa with the devotee,tasting,and distributing divine love.

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