Debate this!

[Janus]

"His other children? You are now one of his children? His children do not defy him, especially by trying to jump over his head and claim an independent relationship with the Supreme Lord and/or His Eternal Consort."

 

An "independent relationship with the Supreme Lord and/or His Eternal Consort."

 

"Every Bhramachari should fall in love with Srimati Rahdarani" - Srila Prabhupada

 

One of the greatest mysteries the love between a maiden and a man, or so a great mystic once had said. I do not see though that Srila Prabhupada is implying in the quote that any bhrmachari should confide, or go through him in order to achieve that "falling in love". Indeed the inference appears to me to be that one should just try to fall in love with Srimati Radharani, and that the only qualification that this love must have in order for it to become one of one's greatest, if not THE greatest asset in promoting ones Krsna Consciousness is for this love that one has for Krsna's Srimati Radhrani is for this love to be real.

 

"You haven't even begun your spiritual life, yet you are so puffed up and arrogant that you believe yourself to have something to offer others.

 

Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the farest of them all?

 

"You are so puffed up and arrogant"

 

Look at yourself in the mirror. Such arrogance and so puffed up.

 

"Your spiritual life hasn't even begun yet." Your love is not real? You are sahajia.

 

You promote yourself all the way up to blindness Mdd, to the position of an absolute authority "Your spiritual life hasn't even begun yet." Because you were not there for what? The kiss?

And you seem to me to be the cheapener, you the sahajia, you whose love perhaps is only a display. Perhaps you are convinced that you are the gaurdian of devotion, that no one comes to the father, or to Srila Prabhupada, or to Lord Krsna or Srimati Rahdarani except through you, or with you watching with judicious eye for each hint of hope, each moment of sincerity, so that when such a thing appears you can quickly trample it so it will never have a chance to grow and appear as something colorful blooming and beautiful in appearance in that grey and barren wasteland that by what you say of others must be your own soul.

"Spiritual life begins at initiation, whether that initiation be via fire sacrifice or any other mystical means, but only an offender would claim a transcendent relationship without said initiation in humility at the lotus feet of guru."

 

"Mystical" From the Greek word "Mytikos" which means "to quite the senses and enter...Within". Can you see inside me? Every corner, eyvery inch? Have you sieved and sifted every grain of me? Were you there when Srila Prabhupada did? No? Do you command his approval? Does Lord Krsna come at your every call, cater to your every whim? Or do you too have some inner cavity, some rotting of the soul that causes you to call outward in your hatred and your agony like this?

 

" Guru is not an imperson. Srila Prabhupada is the guru, the person, for love of whom the Deities have been pleased to grace the rest of us with Their darshan in his established temples. Only through him can you know Radharani."

 

Not according to Srila Prabhupada.

 

"Therefore your claim of intimacy is false, and such a false claim is evil."

 

Taking Srila Prabhupadas suggestion that one should fall in love with Srimati Radharani is evil by your reasoning, and thus I cannot account you to be anything except a blinded soul.

 

O.K., so enough is enough. You want to tar and feather someone start with yourself. You want to debate, lets see what you got, so far you havn't changed anyones mind, so far you havn't defended Srila Prabhupada, just cited yourself as another example of someone who can't.

Hari bol

 

 

 

[leyh]

Originally posted by M-dd:

You have no humility and your opinion is worth zip to any transcendentalist. The first and foremost step in approaching the Supreme destination is to approach guru. This is declared in shastra, the real authority, I only repeat it. You cannot receive the darshan of Radharani without His Divine Grace, and you cannot receive His Divine Grace without surrendering to his lotus feet. You reject him, therefore you are simply a liar and a cheater posing as a realized devotee. That is poison and it is disgusting, indeed it is, and it's your stuff, not mine.

Dear M-dd:

I don't see how you can say that Valaya has "rejected" Srila Prabhupada."Reject" is a very strong word to use.

 

Also, I have read through most of your posts and have detected a lot of negative emotions and hostility to those who do not share your views.It is quite sad for Krsna Consciousness if people who claim to be defending it are not doing with calm rationality but with unconstructive vehement language.

[leyh]

Originally posted by Janus:

"His other children? You are now one of his children? His children do not defy him, especially by trying to jump over his head and claim an independent relationship with the Supreme Lord and/or His Eternal Consort."

 

An "independent relationship with the Supreme Lord and/or His Eternal Consort."

 

"Every Bhramachari should fall in love with Srimati Rahdarani" - Srila Prabhupada

 

One of the greatest mysteries the love between a maiden and a man, or so a great mystic once had said. I do not see though that Srila Prabhupada is implying in the quote that any bhrmachari should confide, or go through him in order to achieve that "falling in love". Indeed the inference appears to me to be that one should just try to fall in love with Srimati Radharani, and that the only qualification that this love must have in order for it to become one of one's greatest, if not THE greatest asset in promoting ones Krsna Consciousness is for this love that one has for Krsna's Srimati Radhrani is for this love to be real.

 

"You haven't even begun your spiritual life, yet you are so puffed up and arrogant that you believe yourself to have something to offer others.

 

Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the farest of them all?

 

"You are so puffed up and arrogant"

 

Look at yourself in the mirror. Such arrogance and so puffed up.

 

"Your spiritual life hasn't even begun yet." Your love is not real? You are sahajia.

 

You promote yourself all the way up to blindness Mdd, to the position of an absolute authority "Your spiritual life hasn't even begun yet." Because you were not there for what? The kiss?

And you seem to me to be the cheapener, you the sahajia, you whose love perhaps is only a display. Perhaps you are convinced that you are the gaurdian of devotion, that no one comes to the father, or to Srila Prabhupada, or to Lord Krsna or Srimati Rahdarani except through you, or with you watching with judicious eye for each hint of hope, each moment of sincerity, so that when such a thing appears you can quickly trample it so it will never have a chance to grow and appear as something colorful blooming and beautiful in appearance in that grey and barren wasteland that by what you say of others must be your own soul.

"Spiritual life begins at initiation, whether that initiation be via fire sacrifice or any other mystical means, but only an offender would claim a transcendent relationship without said initiation in humility at the lotus feet of guru."

 

"Mystical" From the Greek word "Mytikos" which means "to quite the senses and enter...Within". Can you see inside me? Every corner, eyvery inch? Have you sieved and sifted every grain of me? Were you there when Srila Prabhupada did? No? Do you command his approval? Does Lord Krsna come at your every call, cater to your every whim? Or do you too have some inner cavity, some rotting of the soul that causes you to call outward in your hatred and your agony like this?

 

" Guru is not an imperson. Srila Prabhupada is the guru, the person, for love of whom the Deities have been pleased to grace the rest of us with Their darshan in his established temples. Only through him can you know Radharani."

 

Not according to Srila Prabhupada.

 

"Therefore your claim of intimacy is false, and such a false claim is evil."

 

Taking Srila Prabhupadas suggestion that one should fall in love with Srimati Radharani is evil by your reasoning, and thus I cannot account you to be anything except a blinded soul.

 

O.K., so enough is enough. You want to tar and feather someone start with yourself. You want to debate, lets see what you got, so far you havn't changed anyones mind, so far you havn't defended Srila Prabhupada, just cited yourself as another example of someone who can't.

Hari bol

 

 

The very word "Krsna" means all-attractive, but Radharani is so great that she attracts even Krsna.If Krsna is always attractive to everyone,and Radharani is attractive to Krsna,how can we imagine the position of Srimati Radharani? We should try humbly to understand and offer Her our obeisances,saying,"Radharani,you are so dear to Krsna.You are the daughter of King Vrsabhanu and You are Krsna's beloved.We offer our respectful obeisances unto You." Radharani is very dear to Krsna and if we approach Krsna through the mercy of Radharani,we can easily attain Him.If Radharani recommends a devotee,Krsna immediately accepts him,however foolish he may be.Consequently in Vrndavana,we find devotees calling, "Jaya Radhe." We should be more interested in worshipping Radharani,for however fallen we may be,if somehow or other we can please Her,we can very easily understand Krsna. (Elevation to Krsna Consciousness by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Chapter Five: Knowing Krsna's Energies)

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 10-22-2001).]

[M-dd]

Originally posted by leyh:

Dear M-dd:

I don't see how you can say that Valaya has "rejected" Srila Prabhupada."Reject" is a very strong word to use.

VALAYA UVACA---Originally posted by amanpeter:

This and my previous quote from Srila Prabhupada are meant solely as a contribution to the philosophical discussion here. Neither is an expression of my own personal belief system. That revolves only around Srimati Radharani as the personification and source of Divine Grace. My conclusions are based on personal direct experience and merely confirmed by scripture.

So, what is this, acceptance? And this conclusion is in no way confirmed by scripture, which, au contraire proclaim the absolute necessity of approaching Radha-Krsna through the guru, not independently.

 

LEYH--- Also, I have read through most of your posts and have detected a lot of negative emotions and hostility to those who do not share your views.

This isn't about views or opinions. Your reaction to my words are your own feelings. I become angry only when Srila Prabhupada is slandered or his transcendental message misrepresented, and when abuse and bullying are allowed to reign, and if you can't see valaya's constant attempt to discredit him and to shut up those wishing to do the opposite, I can't help you, but be warned if you value your own creeper, for this kind of association is indeed contaminating. It's not all one, like valaya likes to say, it's one and different, we are individual, and we are not all the same, some choose to accept guru and others choose to reject. Those who reject guru should also be rejected, it's that simple.

 

It is quite sad for Krsna Consciousness if people who claim to be defending it are not doing with calm rationality but with unconstructive vehement language.

It is sad for Krsna consciousness the volume of those who wish to post in pretense while speaking poison out the other side of their mouths. I feel duty-bound to the thankless task of pointing it out when I see it, for the possible benefit of some innocent reader who might get sucked into the games these people play. I know valaya can be pretty convincing sometimes, but those are mere flowery words. I don't feel vehemence towards him, I find him laffable and pitiable. But I am beginning to feel this forum is pointless, for the truth is not being desired or pursued honestly. Did you not see all the attacks made just on this thread, in reaction to my posting the glories of Srila Prabhupada? Can't you see the enviousness in that? Perhaps you should go back and see what valaya's been saying BEFORE I got on his case, with the only provokation being my intent to establish the glories of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. That was all it took for valaya and others to come on guns blazing. Why aren't you noticing the vehement envy they are expressing?

 

 

[M-dd]

Dear Leyh prabhu,

 

Here is a sample of what comes out of valaya in response to my posting the glories of Srila Prabhupada's bringing Lord Sri Caitanya's movement to the west----

 

Originally posted by valaya:

If someone tries to shove something down another's throat (`Debate This!`), they can expect to be vomited on. Intentional provocation inspires reaction in kind. Then, of course, the usual cries of offensive, abusive, etc. ring out self-righteously. All this is always done in the name of loving service to Sri Guru and Gauranga!

 

We've been here before, on other forums, with the same individuals who seem adamantly locked in the past, while continuing to viciously lash out at others rather than face their own obvious shortcomings. The only solution, albeit temporary, remains avoidance. Perhaps all they have to teach us is self-control...though not by their own examples.

 

For those to whom Srila Prabhupada, as THEY understand him, continues to be their all-in-all and the sole personification of absolute truth, other forums are available. In fact, many of us here are not welcome there, so a certain `intolerance` might be expected on the part of some of us.

 

If so-called `Prabhupadanugas` actually were that, their fruits of devotion would be apparent to everyone. As for those who continue to identify themselves as initiated disciples after abandoning their vows... Give us a break, eh?

 

valaya RR

So all that was in response to the following post of mine----

 

Sirla Prabhupada brought Krsna to the western world, making His Holy Name familiar in every town and village. The Hare Krsna's became household knowledge everywhere, due to his efforts and the extending efforts of his followers. In fact, Harinam Sankirtan appears in numerous Hollywood movies as part of our culture, solely due to the efforts of Srila Prabhupada. Thus he is qualified as world acarya, proven by this external manifestation of Lord Caitanya's empowerment, and any who follow in his wake can be understood to be exhaulted to the degree they revere and emulate his passtimes and follow his footsteps. Thus, those who speak against him and his transcendental explainations and conclusions, they are the sectarean ones. Those who try to minimize his great unrivalled transcendental feet, they are the sectarean ones. Those who try to cloud the Absolute Truth he disseminated, they are the sectarean ones. They are the envious ones. They are the ones who CANNOT deliver transcendental knowledge of Krsna, or the potency of His Holy Name.

So this post was attacked by valaya, exactly what I've accused him of. I hope this clarifies the real problem for all honest readers, I'm bowing out of further discussion, all are welcome to their own conclusions, mine stand as I've already stated, and I'm not afraid to say so, because I've learned to stand up to bullies.

 

 

[valaya]

When I respond to a particular post, I always include the quote or otherwise make it clear to whom I am replying. There were five other individuals who answered the original `Debate This` order issued from the High Priestess, M-dd. I was adding my two cents worth to the entire discussion thus far, not singling out her.

 

That post from me and pretty well everything else I've ever written has been continually misinterpreted by this obviously fanatical malicious woman, due I think to wilful blindness and a compulsive need to faultfind some poor soul to the point of demonization. It being my turn, I guess, she actually spent hours sifting through the archives from this forum in search of what she believes to be conclusive evidence of my `guilt`, as an offender to God and guru.

 

Really, I find it all quite unbelievable and a sad reminder of the confused desperation of some that refuse to move on in their spiritual life after the passing of the guru who initiated them. Why can't they accept the need for siksa when it is so prominent in the parampara from Srila Rupa Goswami?

 

As for my supposed non-acceptance of Srila Prabhupada, that would have to include all others who did not receive formal initiation from him, because that is all I ever meant in my posts. In fact, I agree with the initial post on this thread, but the highly confrontational manner in which she promotes her guru actually accomplishes the opposite of what one would think is desired. Indeed it seems that she is not only out to assert Srila Prabhupada as the one and only bonafide guru, but herself as his one and only genuine follower!

 

Then, when her attacks on others come back on her to the extent where she can no longer defend the ridiculous position she first put herself into, she goes off to regroup for the next hapless victim. This is the established pattern and modus operandi of M-dd, the self-appointed forum High Priestess from VNN; where BTW I often supported her and bent over backwards to try and understand her personality. Recently, I ran into an old friend of hers who used to post on that forum herself who was kind enough to fill me in on a few details as to why they were no longer friends. So I'm well aware now of who I am dealing with...

 

Some may have noticed that I go out of my way to relate personally with other forum members, including inviations to exchange Emails and even phone calls. While many may suspect otherwise, it's because I try to care about everyone here that is a regular contributor, so long as I sense some sincerity. Being unable to take sides, or sympathizing with all sides at once, is not an especially comfortable perspective most of the time, especially when under attack from all directions simultaneously.

 

My vision is that we are all one in Krsna as part and parcel of the internal potency, Sri Radha. That makes us Her children, not those of any one guru. Perhaps I'll feel differently after initiation, which I'm sure will come about quite naturally, without my imperfect senses having to choose one faction over another. I've resigned myself to waiting on Radha-Krsna in my heart for that, because surely they know what's best for me more than I ever could.

 

Meanwhile, I try to see myself as the insignificant servant of all, not simply vaisnavas. I'm truly sorry that my own experiences are not very helpful here and telling them, while attempting to explain how I interpret everything in light of the scriptures, is considered offensive by many. I can't claim to be your ever well-wisher, not yet anyway, but I'm sure not anyone's ill-wisher either.

 

valaya RR

[JRdd]

Valaya, several people--not just Mdd--have remarked on your faultfinding and bitter attitude, and general overall disrespectfulness toward the devotees.

 

I have also seen, many times, you faultfind those who don't take up your repeated invitations for private discussions (where, apparently, as I see from your above post, you engage in gossip about others), and you accuse your decliners of being impersonalists or fearful of intimacy. As Maitreya once said to you, brace up brother. The world doesn't revolve around you. Who are you to dictate, and judge everyone here.

 

As for Gopal's posting the quotes from the archives (and he does not carry the voice of Mdd at all), they were direct quotes and not any twisting of your words that you claim they were. Shvu is an honest impersonalist. But you, you are something else, brother. And until you get some real siksa (as my sister Mdd does, contrary to your patronising her with your alleged higher knowledge), which you have repeatedly stated you don't need, you will not get further than your imaginary little world that hangs on to each and every petty little grievance or difference until no one can get peace here. You even rudely brought your tantrum about another thread, on another forum, to the true association thread which was going so smoothly, and demanded everyone to go to the Mela and read it and console you about it. And even when I did try to offer kind words, next thing I knew you were being nasty to me, and have been ever since. Go figure. And you have done it before. Quite out of the blue. So what you get from me from now on is tough love. From a distance-- unless you show more control over your tongue and your behaviour and your attitude.

 

As for "moving on" after Srila Prabhupada physically left the planet, this statement shows how little you understand about the postion of Srila Prabhupada. It is not your lack of understanding I take issue with; it is your arrogance in deeming to explain to Mdd what she needs to do, or how much she is advancing, as if you are Supersoul. Some of us have wonderful siksa both from Prabhupada and from other devotees who you are not even aware of. But that is not your business.

 

Kindly read the Audarya Fellowship thread and give this latest diatribe a rest once and for all.

[valaya]

Originally posted by JRdd:

Valaya, several people--not just Mdd--have remarked on your faultfinding and bitter attitude, and general overall disrespectfulness toward the devotees.

 

I have also seen, many times, you faultfind those who don't take up your repeated invitations for private discussions (where, apparently, as I see from your above post, you engage in gossip about others), and you accuse your decliners of being impersonalists or fearful of intimacy. As Maitreya once said to you, brace up brother. The world doesn't revolve around you. Who are you to dictate, and judge everyone here.

 

As for Gopal's posting the quotes from the archives (and he does not carry the voice of Mdd at all), they were direct quotes and not any twisting of your words that you claim they were. Shvu is an honest impersonalist. But you, you are something else, brother. And until you get some real siksa (as my sister Mdd does, contrary to your patronising her with your alleged higher knowledge), which you have repeatedly stated you don't need, you will not get further than your imaginary little world that hangs on to each and every petty little grievance or difference until no one can get peace here. You even rudely brought your tantrum about another thread, on another forum, to the true association thread which was going so smoothly, and demanded everyone to go to the Mela and read it and console you about it. And even when I did try to offer kind words, next thing I knew you were being nasty to me, and have been ever since. Go figure. And you have done it before. Quite out of the blue. So what you get from me from now on is tough love. From a distance-- unless you show more control over your tongue and your behaviour and your attitude.

 

As for "moving on" after Srila Prabhupada physically left the planet, this statement shows how little you understand about the postion of Srila Prabhupada. It is not your lack of understanding I take issue with; it is your arrogance in deeming to explain to Mdd what she needs to do, or how much she is advancing, as if you are Supersoul. Some of us have wonderful siksa both from Prabhupada and from other devotees who you are not even aware of. But that is not your business.

 

Kindly read the Audarya Fellowship thread and give this latest diatribe a rest once and for all.

I noticed you read and agreed with it, yet couldn't resist diving in here to dump your two cents worth...so what else is new?

 

valaya RR

 

 

[talasiga]

 

honest arguments amongst friends

are always more relishable

than the consonance

amongst foes

 

 

.

.

.

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-22-2001).]

[valaya]

Originally posted by talasiga:

honest arguments amongst friends

are always more relishable

than the consonance

amongst foes

 

.

.

.

 

 

 

So pass the `relish`, brother, I'm running out of condiments...

 

 

[talasiga]

Originally posted by valaya:

condiments...

 

 

<u>condiments</u>

are not needed

in the macrobiotic friendship

 

.

.

.

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[valaya]

Originally posted by talasiga:

<u>condiments</u>

are not needed

in the macrobiotic friendship

 

.

.

.

 

 

 

 

...and virtual should not be mistaken for reality!

 

 

[Hedley]

Is this the pot calling the kettle black? Look in the mirror Valaya.

Originally posted by valaya:

I noticed you read and agreed with it, yet couldn't resist diving in here to dump your two cents worth...so what else is new?

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[Hedley]

Read and heed your own words.

Originally posted by valaya:

...and virtual should not be mistaken for reality!

 

 

 

[valaya]

So what you get from me from now on is tough love.

Long as you wear that little French-maid outfit, JRdd, and keep repeating, "Moi spankez vous! Moi spankez vous!" Then again, you could always just skip my posts altogether, as you keep vowing to. Maybe stomping out of the forum again would be the best option. Of course, that never lasts very long, either. Reminds me of the guy who quit smoking--17 times so far!

 

Anyway, you're kinda cute when you get angry, though not anywhere near as effective as when you share your past experiences amongst devotees from the early days. So many miss/missed those precious times and long for the nectar you alone can provide so artistically! It's obvious where your gentle heart is, prabhu, so why not stick with what you do best?

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-23-2001).]

[JRdd]

I am doing that elsewhere now, as any forum where you are that I start sharing, someone inevitably comes along and starts criticising. It is healthy to choose where and what one shares, and who with.

 

[This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-23-2001).]

[valaya]

Originally posted by JRdd:

I am doing that elsewhere now, as any forum where you are that I start sharing, someone inevitably comes along and starts criticising. It is healthy to choose where and what one shares, and who with.

 

[This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-23-2001).]

 

...and in somecases when, though that's especially difficult to determine, isn't it? So easy to get sucked in only to be smashed. I'm sure you always mean well, prabhu, as do I.

 

I firmly believe it will all work out in the next few lifetimes. We're after all just getting started with Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan Movement!

 

valaya RR

 

 

[Janus]

>>>The very word "Krsna" means all-attractive, but Radharani is so great that she attracts even Krsna.If Krsna is always attractive to everyone,and Radharani is attractive to Krsna,how can we imagine the position of Srimati Radharani? We should try humbly to understand and offer Her our obeisances,saying,"Radharani,you are so dear to Krsna.You are the daughter of King Vrsabhanu and You are Krsna's beloved.We offer our respectful obeisances unto You." Radharani is very dear to Krsna and if we approach Krsna through the mercy of Radharani,we can easily attain Him.If Radharani recommends a devotee,Krsna immediately accepts him,however foolish he may be.Consequently in Vrndavana,we find devotees calling, "Jaya Radhe." We should be more interested in worshipping Radharani,for however fallen we may be,if somehow or other we can please Her,we can very easily understand Krsna. (Elevation to Krsna Consciousness by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Chapter Five: Knowing Krsna's Energies)

 

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 10-22-2001).]

 

Thank you leyh

 

Of course their isn't much that I can add to that, except that the idea of worshiping the Divine Feminine, is, due to our conditioning and propensity towards mysogyny quite repugnant to many men. Just witness the extreme disrespect towards women that was exhibited in ISKCON in the past.

The question really is if those who are worshipping Krsna but continueing their mysogynistic attitudes and behaviour, and corresponding contempt for the feminine values of nurturing, etc., are in fact actually worshiping Krsna at all, or whether they are instead simply trying to attach their own bad values to Krsna and are thus only worshiping an image of Krsna that they have created, but which doesn't "stick", which would explain their profound lack of spiritual advance and vantage. Thank you for your reply, most appropriate and has got me to thinking.

Hare Krsna, Hari bol

 

 

[valaya]

We should be more interested in worshipping Radharani, for however fallen we may be, if somehow or other we can please Her, we can very easily understand Krsna. (Elevation to Krsna Consciousness by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Chapter Five: Knowing Krsna's Energies)

Thank you, leyh prabhu! (italics mine. valaya)

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-25-2001).]

[melvin]

HEY VALAYA/AMAN PETER WHY DON`T

YOU PAC-UP YOUR COMPUTER OUT OF

HERE TOGETHER WITH YOUR FRIEND,

JNDAS, TALASIGA,ETC.?

[valaya]

"Every Bhramachari should fall in love with Srimati Rahdarani" - Srila Prabhupada

 

Dear Janus prabhu, that's what I heard, too! Do you remember where it's from?

[leyh]

Originally posted by Janus:

>>>The very word "Krsna" means all-attractive, but Radharani is so great that she attracts even Krsna.If Krsna is always attractive to everyone,and Radharani is attractive to Krsna,how can we imagine the position of Srimati Radharani? We should try humbly to understand and offer Her our obeisances,saying,"Radharani,you are so dear to Krsna.You are the daughter of King Vrsabhanu and You are Krsna's beloved.We offer our respectful obeisances unto You." Radharani is very dear to Krsna and if we approach Krsna through the mercy of Radharani,we can easily attain Him.If Radharani recommends a devotee,Krsna immediately accepts him,however foolish he may be.Consequently in Vrndavana,we find devotees calling, "Jaya Radhe." We should be more interested in worshipping Radharani,for however fallen we may be,if somehow or other we can please Her,we can very easily understand Krsna. (Elevation to Krsna Consciousness by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Chapter Five: Knowing Krsna's Energies)

 

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 10-22-2001).]

 

Thank you leyh

 

Of course their isn't much that I can add to that, except that the idea of worshiping the Divine Feminine, is, due to our conditioning and propensity towards mysogyny quite repugnant to many men. Just witness the extreme disrespect towards women that was exhibited in ISKCON in the past.

The question really is if those who are worshipping Krsna but continueing their mysogynistic attitudes and behaviour, and corresponding contempt for the feminine values of nurturing, etc., are in fact actually worshiping Krsna at all, or whether they are instead simply trying to attach their own bad values to Krsna and are thus only worshiping an image of Krsna that they have created, but which doesn't "stick", which would explain their profound lack of spiritual advance and vantage. Thank you for your reply, most appropriate and has got me to thinking.

Hare Krsna, Hari bol

 

 

You're welcome,Janus prabhu.All Glories to Sri-Sri Radha Krsna!

 

 

[leyh]

Originally posted by valaya:

Thank you, leyh prabhu! (italics mine. valaya)

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-25-2001).]

You're welcome,Valaya Prabhu...somehow or other let us try to please Srimati Radharani!

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 10-26-2001).]

[valaya]

Originally posted by leyh:

You're welcome,Valaya Prabhu...somehow or other let us try to please Srimati Radharani!

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 10-26-2001).]

 

What I have found to be most important to Her is that we concern ourselves more with others' well-being than our own, which includes efforts at `spiritual advancement`. Secondly, chanting the Holy Names as much as possible is greatly pleasing to Her, according to my personal experience anyways.

 

Srimati Radharani has an extremely simple trusting nature. She is always very gentle and kind-hearted. Although Her position is most exalted, still She is not aware of Her own greatness and cannot believe that Krsna is really so attached to Her. Without the constant support and encouragement of Her close girlfriends, she would be completely unable to deal with Him as He totally overwhelms Her, to the point where she is unable to function rationally.

 

There is a beautiful book available from Dasaratha-suta das, a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. He translated "The Book of Radha" and distributes it along with many others under the name `Nectar Books`. I highly recommend ordering the entire set of his translations in which he has managed to encapsulate so much condensed nectar it will take your breath away, along with your heart.

 

He can be reached at: Nectar Books, P.O. Box 574, Union City, Georgia 30291, U.S.A. Please write him a personal letter and mention Peter from Toronto.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-26-2001).]