Guest guest Report post Posted July 26, 2001 Jndas:I disagree, for the eternal present, to which simultaneous can belong... Satyaraj: Beyond the Viraja time is consider absolute. It is a principle, beyond any capacity of reasoning. No inferences like 'eternal present' can be done. This absoluteness of time should harmonize all the opposites concepts like 'eternal present and eternal past, or eternal future,' as well as a situation where time is available and a timeless condition. So, if simultaneousness can belong to an eternal present, it may not belong to a timeless condition, that is also harmonized by Brahman. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
talasiga 0 Report post Posted July 26, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: .....as well as a situation where time is available and a timeless condition. So, if simultaneousness can belong to an eternal present, it may not belong to a timeless condition, that is also harmonized by Brahman. "Condition" has a meaning within the ambit of the Gunas. Therfore "timeless condition" is yet another oxymoron. "Harmonized by Brahman" suggests Brahman as an OPERATIVE agent. Did you mean this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 26, 2001 Talasiga: "Harmonized by Brahman" suggests Brahman as an OPERATIVE agent. Did you mean this? Satyaraj: Yes, Brahman is an operative agent. Sruti states this. The problem is to establish how He operates, as His 'modus operandi' is beyond the reasoning faculty. Theologies that tried to explain His activities in the past were all refuted by Badarayana Rsi - sankhya, vaisesika, pasupata, jaina, sunyam, yoga, Buddhism, and sakta, etc. Therefore Vedanta-acaryas are trying to establish His 'modus operandi' through new theories, such as acintya bheda-abheda, mayavada, dvaita, sudha-advaita, and so on. You may have your own theory, you may follow someone else's theory, but Hari instruct that the wise should simply surrender to Him with no theories. As I am an idiot, I am trying to understand the countless theories on how He operates by the process of discussions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 26, 2001 Talasiga: "Condition" has a meaning within the ambit of the Gunas. Therfore "timeless condition" is yet another oxymoron. Satyaraj: Yes, timeless condition may be an arrangement of gunas. Can you understand guna's perfect equilibrium in Mahakalapuri? This may be consider a material eternity or a timeless condition, but still in that side of the Viraja. Brahma should harmonize both eternal present and timeless condition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maitreya 0 Report post Posted July 26, 2001 Satyaraja, It is understood by all here that our words fall short of describing the nature of transcendance. Words are indicators.What you may be doing is called mistaking the finger for the moon. Distinction and oneness both exist in the Absolute.They donot cancel each other out.And since there is no material time there,simultaneousness is the only option. If you have another one let us hear it. Hare Krishna MC [This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 07-26-2001).] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted July 26, 2001 You may have your own theory, you may follow someone else's theory, but Hari instruct that the wise should simply surrender to Him with no theories. Krishna tells us that we should know Him in 'tattva' (truth). That is the best theory to follow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 26, 2001 Jndas: Krishna tells us that we should know Him in 'tattva' (truth). Satyaraj: Vallabahacarya has presented his tattva as follows; As there are three levels of reality, material (adhibautika); spiritual (adhyatmika); and divine (adhidaivika), Vallabhacarya inferred that there are three ways of seeing Hari, or three levels of spiritual vision: to see only the physical world is to see Hari's adhibhautika form; to see, through reasoning, meditation and concentration, the impersonal entity underlying the physical world is to see Hari's adhyatmika form. Only through the grace (anugraha) of Hari can realization of the complete, adhidaivika form be attained. According to Vallabhacarya's teachings these three levels/attitudes relate to the distinction between the worldly (laukika) and the unworldly (alaukika).The path of spiritual development is from the laukika level, where a person holds the adhibhautika view, to the alaukika: first there will be the development of the adhyatmika attitude (certainly alaukika but not yet perfect), and finally the fully alaukika state and the adhidaivika point of view. This, the constant loving devotion to Hari, devoid of all self-interest - is the goal of the Pusti-marga. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
talasiga 0 Report post Posted July 26, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: As I am an idiot, I am trying to understand the countless theories on how He operates by the process of discussions. You do not appear to be trying hard enough. Therefore, even as an "idiot" you are a failure . Those who have no enemies must argue with their friends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
