When does the soul enter the body?

[Gauracandra 1]

I was standing in the grocery line and saw the front cover of Time (I think) with a headline about "Stem cell wars". Essentially the controversy is over whether to use stem cells from embryos to help find cures for diseases.

 

So the perennial question that is always asked in these types of controversies is "When does life begin?" To me I don't think there is any argument that life begins at conception. But is this a separate question of when does the soul enter the body?

 

I swear I have read somewhere or heard somewhere that the Vedic scriptures declare that the soul enters the human form like 4-8 weeks after conception, like when the fetus is the size of a thumb. I can't remember where I read this. Can anyone confirm this? and give any insight into the process the soul goes through in entering a body.

 

And if the soul enters the body at this stage would that change anyone's opinion on using stem cells from embryos for research. If there is no soul in the embryos, though it is potential life. Its a very delicate question.

 

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the Spiritual forum or the World Review forum, but figured this had more to do with ethics and spirituality. Any comments?

 

Gauracandra

[Maitreya 0]

Timely topic Gaurachandra.Here is SB 3.31.1 where it says the soul enters into a particle of the male semen.

 

 

TRANSLATION

The Personality of Godhead said: Under the supervision of the Supreme Lord and according to the result of his work, the living entity, the soul, is made to enter into the womb of a woman through the particle of male semen to assume a particular type of body.sb 3.31.1

 

PURPORT

As stated in the last chapter, after suffering different kinds of hellish conditions, a man comes again to the human form of body. The same topic is continued in this chapter. In order to give a particular type of human form to a person who has already suffered hellish life, the soul is transferred to the semen of a man who is just suitable to become his father. During sexual intercourse, the soul is transferred through the semen of the father into the mother’s womb in order to produce a particular type of body. This process is applicable to all embodied living entities, but it is especially mentioned for the man who was transferred to the Andha-tämisra hell. After suffering there, when he who has had many types of hellish bodies, like those of dogs and hogs, is to come again to the human form, he is given the chance to take his birth in the same type of body from which he degraded himself to hell.

Everything is done by the supervision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Material nature supplies the body, but it does so under the direction of the Supersoul. It is said in Bhagavad-gétä that a living entity is wandering in this material world on a chariot made by material nature. The Supreme Lord, as Supersoul, is always present with the individual soul. He directs material nature to supply a particular type of body to the individual soul according to the result of his work, and the material nature supplies it. Here one word, retaù-kaëäçrayaù, is very significant because it indicates that it is not the semen of the man that creates life within the womb of a woman; rather, the living entity, the soul, takes shelter in a particle of semen and is then pushed into the womb of a woman. Then the body develops. There is no possibility of creating a living entity without the presence of the soul simply by sexual intercourse. The materialistic theory that there is no soul and that a child is born simply by material combination of the sperm and ovum is not very feasible. It is unacceptable.

 

YS MC

 

[Maitreya 0]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Essentially the controversy is over whether to use stem cells from embryos to help find cures for diseases.

Gauracandra

This question even gets more complicated. The embryos they want to use are ones they have had frozen by couples that may want them in the future.At some point they have all these extra embryos and need to discard them for various reasons.

 

So they pose the question, "Well we are going to dispose of them anyway,so why not get some valuable use from them instead of just dumping them in the trash?"

 

They create this ridiculous situation of frozen embryos in the first place, which leads to all these best use of a bad bargin type choices.

 

How do we answer them?

 

 

[leyh 0]

Dear Forum Members:

The purport to Srimad Bhagvatam 3.31.1 says:"In order to give a particular type of human form to a person who has already suffered hellish life, the soul is transferred to the semen of a man who is just suitable to become his father."

 

So does it mean that the Supreme Lord selectively transfers the spirit soul to the semen of a person who is ready to be a father and not otherwise? Would the Lord transfer the soul to a the semen of a celibate sannyasa or priest who had no intention of being a father?

 

Generally,out of millions of semen,only one survives to develop into a foetus,what about the rest? Could it be that only that the one "successful" semen particle carries a soul in it?

 

So basically,I am enquiring whether there is any information,scriptural or otherwise,whether all semen particles contain souls or whether only some semen particles do.I will be grateful if anyone could enlighten me on this matter.

 

Yours in the spirit of enquiry

leyh

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 07-08-2001).]

[Maitreya 0]

leyh,

 

You have probably read those conversations that Srila Prabhupada had with Svarupa Damodara Gosvami in that small book,Life Comes From Life.

 

In there he says that each cell is a separate living entity.

 

I don't know exactly when that soul that is destined for human form enters.Interesting question.Seems like it could be at anytime during the journey.

 

I always held the picture of a second soul, the one to be human,just kind of jumping in at the last minute and riding the sperm cell to the egg.Giddyup.Nah,actually more like riding inside, like a passenger in one of those hydroplanes.

 

But two souls, one to be human and the other just a regular spermie.But that may be just my overactive imagination. Anybody know the facts?

[karo 0]

The concept of a soul as either an egg or as

a sperm cell is indeed strange.There must be the union of both to constitute a separate

soul.In this there is balance,just as a child

that is deprived of either parent will display an imbalanced character.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

For the body to form and develop there must be a union of egg and sperm cells, but not necessarily for the soul to exist. The soul is eternal, so obviously it exists prior to the union of egg and sperm cells. Thus what is the necessity to limit its presence to that of a developing human body. The Upanishads describe how the soul descends from the heavenly realm through the rain, and enters into the grains (as an accompanying soul to the plant). When the human eats that particular grain (under the arrangement of karma), the soul enters into the male body and resides in the sperm until the time of conception.

 

[leyh 0]

Originally posted by jndas:

For the body to form and develop there must be a union of egg and sperm cells, but not necessarily for the soul to exist. The soul is eternal, so obviously it exists prior to the union of egg and sperm cells. Thus what is the necessity to limit its presence to that of a developing human body. The Upanishads describe how the soul descends from the heavenly realm through the rain, and enters into the grains (as an accompanying soul to the plant). When the human eats that particular grain (under the arrangement of karma), the soul enters into the male body and resides in the sperm until the time of conception.

Dear jndas:

If the transfering of the soul to sperm cells through karma,then does that mean that a soul only enters the sperm of a man who is destined to become a father,or do souls enter into the sperms of all men even those who do not have the karma to be a father? And if the soul "descends from the heavenly realm through the rain, and enters into the grains" then how about people who do not eat vegetables?

 

 

[Gauracandra 1]

Are there people who don't eat grains & vegetables? Its hard for me to see this.

 

Gauracandra