I'm not responsible

[Guest guest]

God knows what I am going to do in future.

Thus what I am going to do is already determined.

Thus if I am going to sin,it is already determined.

Nobody except god has the power to determine what I am going to do.

Thus God determined that I will sin.

So I sin.

 

Thus

 

I am not responsible for my sins.

Only god is responsible.

 

 

 

[Sephiroth]

I am not responsible for my sins.

Only god is responsible.

 

The difference between Man and Animals are - Humans CAN choose which is good and which is bad. Animals do not. Humans have choice to use his free will to change himself and do things better.

 

Herbivores for examples have no choice but to become prey to Carnivores. If they have speech, they could say it is unfair of God made them such (as prey).

 

Carnivores in the other hand have no choice but to prey on the herviroes for food. If they have speech, they could say it is unfair for them to be in level of "evil" as to prey on others for food.

 

But both carnivores or herviroes have no choice or speech. They have no free will and they can only follow Laws of Nature to survive.

 

But humans have choice, and have free will. But people like you do not use it or care to use it for good purpose but to sin by making excuses like this. Therefore, you are not human but a being that lives like animals. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[barney]

Einstein,

 

Yes, you are absolutely right about that coz HE knows what you're doing every second. But GOD is not responssible for you actions. Your sins are caused by your own karma. You're here because of your own karma. Remember that this body is not our permanent body. We're all spirits form the spritual world and for certain reason we due to our own feels and thoughts that we are cast ibnot this body hence forth it is our responsibality to finish our karma here before we return back to where we came from. So do not make GOD your scape goat.

 

Oh! Yes, we are always quick to blame GOD for all our actions because we have a notion that it was GOD who put us here and so HE is responsible for all that is happening. NO, that is not correct. But if you want repentance than you should pray for the good of all and seek HIS guidence in all your good actions. Of course if you want to commit sins that too HE will grant but the consequences of that action would only fall back on you and not GOD as you think so. HIS grace will be on all be thy good or bad but paying the prize will be us and not HIM.

 

If you want to sin by all means go ahead but remember that every action there is a reaction and that is the law of nature.

[Guest guest]

My dear friends barney and sefroth,

 

Right from the moment I was born in my first birth-whenever it was-to the moment I attain salvation,god knew every single thing I am going to do.

 

Assume that my first birth was in 11000 BC.Assume that I will attain salvation in 20000 AD.The moment God created my soul he knew everything that is going to happen to me from 11000BC to 20000AD.

 

He knew that I will do these sins,these good deeds etc in 11000BC itself.In fact even before universe was created God knew about einstein and what is in store for him.

 

when god knows in 11000Bc that I will smoke 3 cigarattes in 11-11-2005 3 to 4 pm,how can that not happen?

 

when god knows what happens it means that he determined what happens.Because if he doesnt determine it then who determined it?I didnt determine before I was born that I will smoke 3 cigarattes.So only god should have determined it.

 

so if I smoke it means that it was not because of my will.It was because god wanted me to smoke,I am smoking.

 

I am doing what god wanted me to do.

 

So I am not responsible.

 

God is responsible.

[maadhav]

sure,

you can sin

and suffer.

 

 

[Sephiroth]

My dear friends barney and sefroth,

 

I'm ain't your "friend" and try to get my name properly. Thank You.

 

Right from the moment I was born in my first birth-whenever it was-to the moment I attain salvation,god knew every single thing I am going to do.

 

Question here is not whether God knows what you are doing or not. The Question is - whether YOU KNOW what you are doing.

 

You claim to have obtain salvation because God knows everything you do. What sort of idiotic Salvation is that? Salvation is when YOU know who and where God is and have reached Him, NOT when He had reached YOU. ONLY an arrogant fool could say he is saved because God reached him.

 

A person who wish to go to a city must make the journey. Anyone who says he is wise because he believes the city will come to him is a fool indeed.

 

Spiritualism is about making the journey to God. Method of reaching Him is by perfecting ourselves (Hindus say by achieving Moksha, Buddhist - Enlightnment, Muslims says by becoming Warak, I believe). NOT saying God going to come and save your sorry excuse of an existence. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

when god knows in 11000Bc that I will smoke 3 cigarattes in 11-11-2005 3 to 4 pm,how can that not happen?

 

It will not happen if you ran out of cigarette and He had made you forget to buy it. It will not happen if He made you so busy during 3 - 4 pm, that you cannot leave your desk for any reason. It will not happen IF the same God makes every cigarette seller in the city you live in have no stock in the brand you use. It will not happen if no one loan you a cigarette.

 

WHY? because the same God who you say responsible for your actions is responsible for each and everyone's action in the city and to Him, whether you smoke or not, He has NOTHING to lose. So, nothing is destined.

 

In the end, you're just a Puppet who thinks he is a master of his own existence. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

so if I smoke it means that it was not because of my will.It was because god wanted me to smoke,I am smoking.

 

Hmph ... when you lie in a hospital bed, coughing your lungs out due to canser which eats away your lungs, does it means that God choose to make you suffer on this World also?

 

If something like that happens, are you going to say - "God could have stopped me from smoking but He didn't so I'm dying because of God?" Sure ... people like you always do, that is usually how Atheism grows - denial of their own mistake and fault.

[barney]

Dear Einstein,

You said:

 

Right from the moment I was born in my first birth-whenever it was-to the moment I attain salvation,god knew every single thing I am going to do.

##############################################################

 

That is what I told you. GOD knows everything we do every moment of time. So, there is no denying about it. Right?

 

############################################################

 

You said:

 

Assume that my first birth was in 11000 BC.Assume that I will attain salvation in 20000 AD.The moment God created my soul he knew everything that is going to happen to me from 11000BC to 20000AD.

 

He knew that I will do these sins,these good deeds etc in 11000BC itself.In fact even before universe was created God knew about einstein and what is in store for him.

 

###########################################################

 

Yes, the answer is the same as above.

 

############################################################

 

You said:

 

when god knows what happens it means that he determined what happens.Because if he doesnt determine it then who determined it?I didnt determine before I was born that I will smoke 3 cigarattes.So only god should have determined it.

############################################################

 

Do you know what is freewill? The choice you make on your onw is freewill and that choice is made according to you past karma, whatever it was. So, the fruit of that action is what you're enjoying now. When you were young in your past life you desired to smoke but could not do so and this life you have fulfill that desire by smoking, knowing very well it is bad for your health. I too smoke but do not shift my action to GOD. I know it is bad for my health and I can stop it if I want because it is my onw freewill but I'm not doing that coz I lack in will power. You can call me a weakling and I admit so.

 

GOD has done his duty in creation of this universe for the pleasure of all living beings from the crawling, creeping, flying, swimming and walking creatures to mankind. It was a beautiful world and a paradise you can call it. But the destruction came when evil thoughts creeped into man and so began the age of evolution. Now we are in the mids of destroying the world with our so called development of since and technolgy. Descovery of neculer and space travel will change the world climatical condition. Earth quakes, Tsunami, Katrina, Beta and many other natural disasters to come due to the impact caused by these chemical reaction caused in our athmosphere. Did GOD instruct us to do so? NO! It was cause by our own doing in the name of science and development.

 

Man become so greedy that he began to destroy the forest to occupy more space whithout thinking for a second what will happen to the forest dwellers [creatures that can speak for themselves] and causing chain reaction which countries like Argentina, Mexico are suffering landslides killing many lives. But ofcourse you would not understand that because to you it it is all because of GOD. My dear friend, you would not realize that every second there is new life being born again and GOD hopes that this new life would make a difference. Only the coming generation would know the impact we have created. Intead of presrving this world we are causing it to become an unsuitable place for survival and only HE knows what this world would be in another 100 years come. Will it be safe for the new generation that we would not be here to see the reault of our action today.

 

But as I have said, HE only observes and if you decide to change all these for good than, only than would HE lend a hand otherwise it is DEATH TO ALL LIVING CREATURES at one go.

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

Yes you are 50% correct, and very close to one Hindu school of thought-Markedam (cat path), which says whatever happens is His will and nothing else.

 

However that has no Sin or good/bad concepts, because what He determines can't be called Sin.

 

The real followers of that path will enjoy bliss since they are relieved of all worries since they believe whatever happens is his will.

 

The other path (monkey path) thinks that they are responsible for their actions so they choose to do good actions and reap good benefits.

 

But you are inbetween, you think that all your actions are determined by God AND whatever God determines is SIN.

 

So you can't reap the benefit of both the paths.

 

 

[Guest guest]

What you are saying is correct partially. What you refer as 'I' is the physical body, the bloody you, the ego.

 

The spiritual self is the actual you. A guru is one who shows the path of uniting jivatma and paramatma as one and the same.

 

Your ego is considering the god as seperate from you. And you currently think your ego is you. This is nothing but ignorance. But this is nothing too unusual for a start.

[Guest guest]

Yes, what you said is absolutely correct. It is he who is doing all. It is he who is creating all. If you see this way, then where the sin is coming. This is where you are lagging. When good thing will happen, you will say you did it. When bad is coming, this is god is doing. Try to understand his creation. The moment you will understand it, you will see the difference. That time you will see, the mind which is from god, will work for you. Try doing this from now. Remove “I” from all your statement use “he” always for good and bad. You will see the difference. But in this kali yagua it is very difficult, I can say impossible. Neither how kali work will be performed??

[Guest guest]

If God doesnt want something to happen

It will not happen.

If god wants something to happen

it will happen.

So whatever happens

happens because god wanted it to happen.

 

 

If god doesnt want me to sin

I cannot sin.

when god wills something to happen

it will happen

can anything else happen?

 

Thus if god doesnt want me to sin

I cannot sin.

If I sin it means that

god wanted me to sin.

 

[Sephiroth]

If god doesnt want me to sin

I cannot sin.

when god wills something to happen

it will happen

can anything else happen?

 

Wrong ... you will sin whether you want it or not. Why? Because you have duality and ego, you also have biological urges and emotions. You also have needs and wants. You are NOT an Angel who's sole purpose of existence is to praise God and do as He commands them to do. You seems to think that you are not a human but an Angel. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Many thinks that to commit sin is to DO something sinful. Wrong ... sinful thoughts are sin (such as lustful thought, anger, greed etc). Sinful behaviour is sin - like looking at someone angrily, prideful behaviour, sarcastic looks etc. And finally, the most common sinful actions are what you do in daily life.

 

Unless you are so sure you have no sinful thoughts, behaviour and actions, your actions are yours alone - not God's.

 

That is why in Gita, Sri Krishna said - "To be inaction (not doing anything) is very hard, so better if you commit the action and give it as offering to Me (the Lord)".

 

 

Thus if god doesnt want me to sin

I cannot sin.

If I sin it means that

god wanted me to sin.

 

Like I said before, if you lie in bed, coughing your lungs out due to cancer, who's fault will it be? God who could have stopped you from smoking or you who continued to smoke, thinking God wanted you to smoke?

 

You know, you reminds me of Americans in mid-1980s. When so many people diagnosised with AIDS, do you know what this morons said?

 

They said God GAVE them the sickness so they could do God's work (by educating others). NOT for ONE second did this jokers think that they were suffering because their own sinful actions (of lustful activities which they commit since 1970s). That is what you are doing now ... you are committing Sin and you are doing what no true devotees could dare to do - summit your Sin to God instead of your merits. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

God knows all the actions and their reactions but he does not know which one you would choose to do. But he sure knows that if you do x you get y. He gives you all options and the necessary guidelines, it is up to you to choose.

 

There may be 1000000000000000++ actions and 100000000000000++ reactions and God knows all of them thoroughly. He also knows fox example; if you choose to do action 76565 then you get reaction 465654.

 

So, it is not God's fault so please do not commit the worst sin by blaming God.

[Guest guest]

I am saying "God doesnt know" but what I meant was "God does not want to know". God can know if he wants to know, but he generally doesnt interfere unless requested or unless really required.

[Guest guest]

(I am saying "God doesnt know" but what I meant was "God does not want to know". God can know if he wants to know, but he generally doesnt interfere unless requested or unless really required)

 

God is all knowing.Your logic is wrong.

[Guest guest]

(Like I said before, if you lie in bed, coughing your lungs out due to cancer, who's fault will it be? God who could have stopped you from smoking or you who continued to smoke, thinking God wanted you to smoke)

 

If god didnt want me to smoke, I wouldnt have smoked.

The mere fact that some incident happened means that god willed that to happen.Because if god doesnt want something to happen,it wont happen.

 

(you are committing Sin and you are doing what no true devotees could dare to do - summit your Sin to God instead of your merits)

 

I am doing what god wanted me to do.So how is that a sin?I dint do it.God made me to do it

[Guest guest]

(I am saying "God doesnt know" but what I meant was "God does not want to know". God can know if he wants to know, but he generally doesnt interfere unless requested or unless really required)

 

God is all knowing.Your logic is wrong.

 

Nothing wrong. God for sure knows how to know but whether he wants to know or not is his decision. When you say God is all knowing it only means that God knows how to know whatever he wants, whenever he wants, however he wants. Like I said before. He knows all actions and all reactions.

[Sephiroth]

God is all knowing.Your logic is wrong.

 

All knowing doesn't means He required to be bothered about you. Give me one good reason why God - All Knowing - could want to do something (directly involve in an action) if He knows the outcome?

 

He knows what actions to be take and what result will come out, so why do it in the first place?

 

This is like Mathematical trick.

2 + 3 is 5 - without calculating the numbers, you will know 5 is the value.

 

Same time, you know 1 + 4 = 5, also 2 + 2 + 1 = 5, 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5 and so on till all possible numbers with Plus value had generate no. 5 and this is just with Plus value, we have not even entered Minus, Multiply and Divide.

 

So, WHY must God be bothered of doing a calculation with you if He knows the outcome? What logic is there to allow you to generate a value which has no meaning to Him? Why must He allow you to sin if such actions are sinful and will only destroy your own self - like getting cancer for smoking too much?

 

The very facts that you commit sins shows He allows you to commit sin from your own free will so you, in end of your lifetime will be represented by a value which shows what sort of life you have lived. The positive values means merit - Good Life and negative values means Bad (way of) Life.

[Sephiroth]

If god didnt want me to smoke, I wouldnt have smoked.

 

Did God teach you to smoke? No ... most likely you learn by influence of your friends or TV advertisement. So where is God's role in teaching you how to smoke?

 

When you buy cigarettes, did the money comes from God? Did God go to shop and buy cigarettes for you? Did He tells you what brand taste good and what does not?

 

Nope ... all this you do on your own, out of your own free will. None of this is God's action nor do you think of God when you commit such action. So where does God's role when you inhale your own poison (cigarette)?

 

I am doing what god wanted me to do.So how is that a sin? I dint do it.God made me to do it

 

Did God meet you in person and say "Go and smoke to you have cancer?" Or "Go and sleep with that woman?" Or "Go and drink alcholol till you drop?"

 

Allow me to tell you one thing - If you submit Poison (Sin) to God, He will not complaint. He will still take it with a smile even so you offer sin and filth of your mind. But in the end, He will return to you not merit and good life, but the consquence of your action. You will suffer due to your own action because you only submitted sin, not merit.

 

So, if you still want to submit poison to Him, go right ahead. You, not me, who will reap what you sow. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

God is responsible for all things. For God created all things and God is all things. But that does not mean you can not be made responsible for your sins /images/graemlins/smile.gif For each soul shall be made responsible and shall suffer for its sins because that is what God wants. God's play will decide when you enter the pure path, whether it be now because of these words or in one hundred lifetimes.

 

 

 

PS. You actually sound like the Einstain who once said "What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world."

[Guest guest]

You think in terms of 'what god WANTS'. If a newly born baby is crying, you would either say gods wants it to cry or the baby wants to cry. The crying bit would also be helping the baby grow properly. So the word 'WANT' is your ego's interpretation which can be ignored.

 

It's just the way things are. People help because they think they can do help, whether it solves a problem or not. People create problems because they think they can create those, whether it increases the world's problems or not.

 

God knows that whatver happens in the outside world the spiritual self remains pure, unaffected and sat chit ananda.

 

So my question is who WANTS what.

[Guest guest]

Sorry I should have said "because that is how God created things" instead of "because that is what God wants".

[Sephiroth]

It is said in Vedas and Gita that even the wise men do not know what God's purpose in performing something (His leelas).

 

How could you, a mere mortals could say that is how God created something?

[Guest guest]

Mr. Wise person:

 

You say "It is said in Vedas and Gita that even the wise men do not know what God's purpose in performing something (His leelas)." But as I a foolish person I know why. God wants to enjoy the "Bliss" when we LOVE each other, and that is the reason He cut all the strings, ( NO STRINGS ATTACHED !!!) we are no longer His puppets. There is no Bondage, WE ARE FREE. There is no need for sacrificial offering and (falsely) look good to Him to appease Him. God knows Puppets do not know what Love is and they cannot have life. God is awesome because of His Grace. All we can do is Thank Him in gratitude. He loves all of us. Have Blessed day my friend.....KT

[Guest guest]

While this body my soul occupies is certainly mortal and I will have to let go of it on one destined day... my real self is infinite immortal love. And my goal in life is to unite this mortal body with the real self. Which should be the goal of every other human being on earth.. but what do you expect, we live in the darkest of ages.

 

If I have spoken untruth here then I am sure I will be punished for it. Although I based my words not purely on the imagination of my feeble mind but on what I understood of the laws of Dharma as written in ancient hindu scriptures.