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Proof that Swaminarayan is the supreme Lord?

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How does BAPS fit into this category? When they go round changing Artis, Shlokas and Scriptures?IS this how they fit in? When the ydo droh of Mahrajs Vachans and his principles. BAPS do not even adhere to the scriptures. not even the primary one The siksapatri. So how do you guys fit it?You do clealry fit into the Vimukh category i have to say.


BAPS is full of all sorts of evils. Just because they have soem control over the Gujrati media they are not portrayed as such. Are you telling me there is no fight going on at the moment over the next Pramukh Swami? LOL


Also about when you need land, and when your saints want to leave theyre beaten up. Just like Hariprasad swami says he was. So he created haridham sokhda. Ive heard from my ears about his troubled past in BAPS. Yet he takes gunas of Swami. So to say that nothing happens is foolish of you. You should have female gurus anyway as a female. Liek Bhagwan Himself established. Aum shri Sadhvidharmpravartkaay namah.... Remember???


Our road may have bumps and holes in them. They may even be flooded but this is the Road that Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself established!! This is the road he told all to follow! Whatever this road is like we know where it leads.


Whereas your road is going in the opposite direction. Its not made by Bhagwan nor is it that which Bhagwan told His devotees to follow. You think your doing great form you building of temples and some seva. But when it comes to Agna and Upasna its devoid of teh principles of Bhagwan Swaminarayan.


LIES with no evidence. wheres you're proof?

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Saintliness and Prayers - The real and only anchorage and guiding

force of BAPS Swaminarayan sect and reason for its amazing progress

unparalleled in history of Indian Culture.


Celebrating 100 years now, BAPS is worth for its purity, saintliness

not just amongst its team of around 800 saints, but for all associated

with it, are graced with this divinity and pure life:-)

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BAPS does not change scriptures. I suggest you get off your laurals and read the scriptures written by Shriji Maharaj and It clearly say Akshar tai ne Purshotaam ni bhakti karvi. What does that mean? Akshar Purshotaam Upasana. Maharaj and His true Devotee.

Remember one thing: The reason BAPS has flourished and risen as a true Sanstha is because Shriji Maharaj is one with his gurus. If it was the same with the other sampraday's then they would be ahead of BAPS.

The only thing other sampraday's know how to do is go to people and tell them they are part of BAPS for donations. Use BAPS name ... But they have been caught out as everyone knows.

thanks. this is my point exactly. all they can to is criticise the good work baps is doing. When there own sampradaya is filled with crooks and murders. How is that what Lord Swaminarayan wanted? He is dilutaed.

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You fail to answer my questions or answer my post according to what i state. Why is that? is it because you do have faith in Swainarayan Bhagwans orthodox establishment or scriptures?


BAPS is not orthodox and is not even correct according to the Vedas never mind your so called gurus.

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Bhagwan Swaminarayan has stated that those who know me to be their choicest deity and wish to achieve moksha(Salvation) shall follow only the Swaminarayan Sampraday under the leadership of the Dharmavanshi Acharyas. (Vachanamrut Vadtal 18, Nishkulanand Kavya - Purushottam Prakash)


The Desh Vibhaag Lekh was Maharaj's agna for all souls that were desiration of salvation. You cannot hope to conform to it in a million years as He only established 2 Gadis, saints, scriptures, pratyaksh murtis haribhakts and the importance of female satsang according to diciplic succession. All this is prescribed in any of the orthodox scriptures you pick up. Shriji maharaj in nishkulanand Swami even states that he decided this from Akshardham.. care to argue with this? It will mention these without fail. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I have lived amongst BAPS and I found it inadequate once I read the original undoctored scriptures of the orthodox Swamainarayan Sampraday.


First of all never mind the scriptures.. BAPS have changed even the Arti and the Sikshapatri!! How dare you come out with such? Yes, the orthodox scriptures state that you have to become by realising yourself as Brahm/Akshar (realise yourself as the soul) and then worship Purshottam. This does not contradict with what the orthodox Satsang follows nor Shriji Maharajs teachings. Where does it state in any of the scriptures written My shriji mahraj, nand santos or even by Gunatitanand swami in His vatos that you should worship Akshar purshottam?? That you should worship him and place him on the sinhasan like Radhaji, Laksmiji etc? Where ? Even in one senytence with reference and quotes. Show ME?


You siting that BAPS popularity is reason for it to be deemed as genuine, if that is the case then there is no religion like Islam. As that is most popular. Maharaj has already prestated that there will be ups and downs in this satsang that he has created. But the temples and the temples under the banner of Vadtal and Amdavad gadis will remain as long as the Moon and Sun shine "yaavat Surya Chandra Divakare"...satsangi Jivan (Bhagwan Swaminarayan). Have you even read the Purshottam Prakash, Haricharitramrut Sagar, Harililamrut? How can you miss all this? Have you even read the Sarvamangal stotra which has the 1000 names of Mahraj. even from that all can be clearly seen. Have you guys been brain washed or performed black magic upon? Also why is it that you have to make temples opposite the original ones that Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself constructed? Why do you insult Him in such a way?


The bad apples of the Sampraday such as the Acharya and the so called sadhus you talk of have been excommunicated from the Satsang as per Gods wish and they are free do live as they wish just as BAPS do. The current Acharyas are administrating satsang in the orthodox manner. Bad apples will exist in all walks of live. Even in satsang at the time of Shriji maharaj so called bad apples like Raghunathdas, Harba and Valba etc existed. So what you trying to say? That Maharaj satsang was wrong too? His way of satsang was wrong? Dont be silly. Read the Harililamrut. Mahraj in there states that there will be a "charti and parti" (ups and downs) in this satsang, but He also states "one should never leave the banner of the two Gadis ever, those that do are vachan drohis and guru drohis". I have references and quotes if you like. So all can see besides yourself. Its obvious you will state that what you follow is truth. But you cannot contracdict the words of Swaminarayan Bhagwan can you? even if you do for how long will you?


No one has been going anywhere under the banner of BAPS. What proof do you have of this? Name me the ones who have done such? You are wrongly taking avgun and doing droh of acharyas and saints and even Gunatitanand swamios avto condemn this. So what exactly are you followingh? You dont even fallow gunatitatand Swamis Vato as you should be doing! Also tell me where is a so called gunatit parampara stated in teh swaminarayan scriptures?


Maninagar can do as they wish. They are also excommunicated like BAPS cult is as per Mahrajs wish

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Saintliness and Prayers - The real orthodox and only anchorage and guiding force of the orthodox Swaminarayan sect and reason for its amazing progress unparalleled in history of Indian Culture.


Forever Celebrating since the establishment of the Sampraday by Shri Uddhavji over 400 years ago now is worth for its purity, saintliness, agna, upasna, dharmvanshi Acharyas, Saints, Bhakts, Scriptures and the Murtis Swaminarayan bhagwan Himself established. Not just amongst its team of over 2000 saints, but for all associated

with it, are graced with this divinity and pure life.

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Building a house of heaven for Bartlett

Carved in India, Hindu temple will be largest in North America


Story by Rukmini Callimachi

Photos by M. Scott Mahaskey



<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=200 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>side_temple_1.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photocaption>The Akshardham monument in Gandhinagar, Gujarat is the crowning jewel of the Swaminarayans, a small sect of Hinduism that is gaining popularity in North America. Akshardham translates to "house of heaven" in English.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>PINDWARA, Rajasthan - Just off of India's National Highway, in the middle of a desert so bald and sun-bleached that even shadows seem to dry up, the largest Hindu temple in North America is taking shape.

A continent away from the temple's eventual home along Route 59 in Bartlett, slabs of white, uncured marble line both sides of the road - and all through the day, the sound of men chipping at stone spills onto the highway.

In one sprawling factory, strips of cloth stretch across poles blocking out the worst of the glare. Underneath, more than 450 craftsmen work in 12-hour shifts, carving the 108 marble pillars that soon will be shipped by sea to Bartlett.

Paid $1.50 a day, the men carve intricate patterns of sun and stars into the stone. Their hands are cracked. White marble dust clings to their clothes and stains the backs of their necks.

Women, covered from head to foot, bend over their work, polishing the finished product. They make $1 a day - a standard wage for Rajasthan's marble craftsmen.

In this village, the Bochasanwasi Shree Akshar Purushottam Swaminarayan Sanstha (BAPS) sect of Hindus employs 3,000 Indian craftsmen to work on all their projects - including their soon-to-be temple in Bartlett, which they hope will win a Guinness Book of World Records listing.

The temple will cost about $30 million to build, a pittance considering its scope.

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=200 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>side_temple_10.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photocaption>An artist's rendering of what the temple, or mandir portion of the Bartlett Swaminarayan complex will look like when it it finished. Courtesy of the Baps Sect, Bartlett</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>The entire complex, which will span 170,000 square feet, will consist of three structures - two immense halls flanking a central white temple. The temple, crowned with 15 domes, will be made of Turkish limestone and white incandescent marble.

Its architecture, traditionally Indian, will include several grand balconies held up by soaring pillars and a monumental shrine room. The Burmese teak interior of the two halls will be carved with a garden of stylized flowers.

Here in Pindwara, the temple work will cost a fraction of what it would in the States. But money is not the only point.

Inside the factory, on a ledge above a fuse box, 10 paintings of Hindu deities are ornamentally displayed behind glass. Roses and fruit have been placed before them.

It is for them, that half a world away, the temple is being built.

Breakfast of the gods

At the break of day, as traffic on Route 59 is just beginning to hum, the gods have breakfast in Bartlett.

Pravin Thakar, 56, a recent immigrant from the Indian state of Gujarat, sleeps not far from the 10 idols who grace the shrine room of Bartlett's Swaminarayan Temple.

Thakar, the temple's priest, rings a brass bell at 5:30 a.m., gently waking the gods whose job it is to wake the world.

Carefully, he takes off their blankets and undresses them. Then coaxes them, one by one, to bathe with a perfumed washcloth.

He dresses them in ornamental clothes.

He offers them a glass of water and a toothbrush with a hint of Crest.

Then he places their morning meal before them. A spicy Indian oatmeal, followed by a plate of mangoes or cut apples. A glass of sweetened milk, followed by another glass of water - this one for gargling.

"To us they are not just stone but breathing beings," said Harish Patel of Naperville, the temple's spokesperson, referring to the life-sized marble sculptures fed at breakfast, lunch and dinner.

The gods represented here are among the most famous of the hundreds in the Hindu pantheon - Shiva, Ram, Krishna and the elephant god Ganesh - as well as Lord Swaminarayan, the 19th century saint who founded the sect.

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=200 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>side_temple_2.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photocaption>A statue of Lord Swaminarayan seemingly floats in space inside the Akshardham visitor's center in Gandhinagar, India.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Idol worship, which is at the core of the strand of Hinduism practiced here, is meant to bridge the gap between man and the divine.

"If we think of God as just being in the sky, then he is too infinite. It's too hard for us to understand him. Too hard to grasp. So we try to make him more like us," explained Patel.

In every way, the temple offers its gods the best. The turbans the statues wear are made of the finest silk, reserved for bridegrooms and politicians in India. The food symbolically served to them is prepared daily; nothing is refrigerated.

But in the next year and a half, the more than 1,000 Hindu devotees here are preparing to offer their gods something even more spectacular.

"If we can spend millions building houses for ourselves - if we can build sports stadiums and multiplexes - why not build a big house for God?" said Nayan Mehta, one of the temple's volunteers.

"Should our god be allowed to live in a hut?" added Patel.

The current temple - which at 100,000 square feet already is one of the most impressive in the Chicago area - is not exactly a hut. But nothing short of the largest Hindu temple on the continent will be a good enough offering.

"God has given us everything," said temple volunteer Kalpesh Patel of Streamwood. "It's wrong to say that we can even give anything back."

Stone by stone

Pindwara, seven hours from the Ahmedabad headquarters of the BAPS sect, is the center of India's marble solar system.

Every temple and marbled mosque in north India has its roots in this region, so it would make sense that the Swaminarayans would tap into the area's vast marble mines.

But they don't.

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=200 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>side_temple_4.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photocaption>A woman carries bricks for an ongoing construction project at Akshardham, the main monument of the Swaminarayan faith.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Instead, they go 3,700 miles farther to Carrara, Italy, for marble that is the best money can buy.

"It's much softer," said sculptor Ida Ram Khimaji, 60, comparing Italian marble with the native variety. As he spoke, Khimaji was bent over a slab destined for Bartlett carved with a disc-like sun, emanating marble rays.

"It's more than just the softness," said Bharat Patel of Hanover Park, the chief engineer of the Bartlett temple. Indian marble, he said, does not have a uniform hue.

"Carrara marble is famous, the coloring is perfect," he said.

The Swaminarayan sect was introduced to Carrara marble in 1997 by a British architect working on their London temple - one of the grandest Swaminarayan temples and listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the largest Hindu temple outside India. All the sect's temples built since have used the Italian stone.

From Rome, containers of the fine white marble are shipped by sea to Kandla, a port in Gujarat. It arrives in Pindwara on the backs of trucks.

BAPS is one of three Swaminarayan groups, all tracing their lineage back to Lord Swaminarayan and headquartered in Gujarat, the saint's home. All three have temples in the Chicago suburbs - the other two are in Wheeling and Itasca. But BAPS, whose largest U.S. following is in Bartlett, is by far the most affluent.

In the foreman's office in Pindwara, a sketch of the future Bartlett temple shows each piece of the immense jigsaw puzzle of marble.

Each beam and sculpted pillar is carved and polished, then packed in foam and trucked back across the desert to Kandla. The pieces then travel by ship to New York, by rail to Chicago and by truck to Bartlett, where the temple is being assembled stone-by-stone in a 30-acre field just off of Route 59.

The men who do the carving are paid 70 rupees a day, the women, slightly less.

This is the great secret of the BAPS sect, which in less than a century has built more than 450 temples in 45 countries.

They use the best marble money can buy, but they also rely on a voluntary workforce of thousands. Some, like Bharat Patel, are highly skilled and yet, for more than a decade, Patel has overseen construction of the sect's major monuments free of charge.

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=200 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>side_temple_6.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photocaption>Women can polish the marble, but only the men are allowed to carve.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>"How can you put a dollar figure on that?" asked Harish Patel.

But mostly, they use the exquisite craftsmanship of traditional carvers to create monuments of soaring beauty.

Even at $30 million, the Bartlett temple is a bargain for its size and grandeur. It is half the cost of the new Neuqua Valley High School in Naperville, for example.

These temples serve to publicly announce the faith -to potential devotees as well as to the world at large.

The approach has worked - the Swaminarayan faith is the fastest growing sect of Hinduism in America, said Nathan Katz, chair of religious studies at Florida International University in Miami.

Its success, he said, has grown hand-in-hand with the Gujarati community here. "The Swaminarayan faith is very ethnically-rooted in Gujarat - and Gujaratis are disproportionately represented in America," he said.

While in India, only 4 percent of the population is Gujarati, Katz estimates that nearly 50 percent of the United States' Indian immigrants are from that state.

'A serious gesture'

Open the Schaumburg phone book and scroll to page 165, where the Patels start with Abhas C. and continue for 427 names - a full-page of razor-fine print later. There are more Patels here than Smiths, who number 395.

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=200 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>side_temple_5.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photocaption>Monkeys play on a shed nearby a marble factory near Pindwara, India.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Patel is the most common last name in Gujarat, the home of Lord Swaminarayan. Born in 1781, he preached the reformed Hinduism that bears his name. It stresses the importance of chastity, resurrected special dietary laws and created a strict code of conduct for the faith's monks, called "saints." Once they join the order, saints are forbidden from contact with women, including their mothers.

A community of affluent businessmen, Gujaratis came to America in waves after 1965, the year the quota of Indians allowed into the United States changed from 100 to 20,000 per year.

Hemant Brahmbhatt, editor of Sandesh, a Gujarati-language newspaper here, estimates more than half the Indians in the Chicago area are Gujarati - mirroring the trend Katz found in the country as a whole.

At the Bartlett temple, there are so many Patels that the switchboard operator will ask for help in narrowing down the possibilities, as in, "Are you looking for engineer Bharat Patel?"

One of the greatest factors contributing to the growth of the Swaminarayan faith, said religion scholar Raymond Williams of Wabash College, is the building of monuments.

"It becomes a showplace for their message," said Williams, who has followed the Bartlett sect since its inception in a rented VFW hall in Glen Ellyn.

The temple in Bartlett, which began with six families in 1971, has more than 1,000 regular devotees now. That number is fluid, said the temple's Kalpesh Patel, and can jump to 5,000 on festival days and to more than 10,000 when Pramukh Swami Maharaj flies in for an appearance. The saffron-robed "pope" of the sect, Pramukh Swami leads the temple's daily activities by phone and faxes from India.

"This is a very affluent community and they want to make a serious gesture," said University of Chicago's religion expert Wendy Doniger. Referring to the cathedrals of the Christian faith, she added, "They want to show they're equal partners."

Miracle on Route 59

Every morning, as she rushes to ready for her job as a nurse at Alexian Brothers Medical Center, 26-year-old Anila Patel takes a moment to speak softly to the painting of Lord Swaminarayan.

"Get up, get up. It's time to get up," the Streamwood woman urges him.

"In my mind, I get him ready - I wash him, I feed him," she said. "I try to remember what he was wearing at the temple."

In the temple, the priest literally washes the marbled gods, dresses them and places food before them. But in homes around the suburbs, families also have small idols or paintings. They perform the same gestures in a mental form.

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=200 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>side_temple_7.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photocaption>Devotees of the Swaminarayan faith pray for peace during a special prayer service at the Bartlett temple.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>They, too, are trying to close the gap between god and man.

"If an elephant tries to speak to an ant, there is the problem of size. They cannot communicate, because their mouths are different sizes," said Carol Stream resident Kalpana Patel, one of the temple's volunteers.

"So the ant tries to make the elephant more like itself," she said. "It pretends that the elephant is the same size as the ant. That's what we are trying to do."

Caring for gods as humans is hardly different from placing a doll in a crèche and adoring it as the baby Jesus, said Doniger. Thinking of statues as the embodiment of the divine is not as foreign as it might seem. In the Christian communion service, the wafer becomes the body of Christ; wine becomes his blood.

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=200 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>side_temple_3.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photocaption>Sculpture inside the vistors center to Akshardham, the main monument to the Swaminarayan faith.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>In 1995, thousands of people in Delhi began spoon-feeding statues of the elephant god, Ganesh, after rumors spread that milk placed before the idol in a temple had disappeared.

Scientists on TV showed that the capillary action on the milk's surface caused drops to cling to the trunk, making it look like Ganesh was drinking.

Still, the "milk miracle" created a frenzy, spreading from Delhi to Calcutta to Bombay and causing the price of a liter of milk to jump from 6 rupees to 100 rupees - or from 12 cents to $2.

Miracles are commonplace in India, where the dividing line between the material and the spiritual is much less defined than here, said Williams.

But when miracles start happening in American temples, it also becomes a way of creating sacred ground. That is exactly what happened in Bartlett last November on the occasion of annakut, a ceremony during which women cooked more than 2,500 dishes to offer the deities.

A newcomer to the faith, Anila Patel does not consider herself a devoted volunteer. But she took the time to cook sev, a kind of Indian noodle made with wheat flour.

"There are people who have been going for years," she said. "I don't understand why God chose me."

Temple authorities say Lord Swaminarayan manifested himself before her eyes, reaching out and taking a bite - then a second and a third - from a plate of round Indian sweets, called ladoos.

"I saw him pick it up and take a bite," said Anila Patel. "Then he smiled at me," she said.

She was sitting at the far back of the temple's shrine room, in the section designated for women, which is out of sight of the Lord Swaminarayan statue she saw in her vision. She had no way of knowing, said Harish Patel, that there was a plate of ladoos before the idol. As soon as her vision was over, she told others about it.

When they went to inspect the plate of sweets, they found several of the ladoos missing - and the plate had been disturbed.

That same week, a young woman at the BAPS Swaminarayan temple in Atlanta reported seeing the god drink grape juice. This time, temple workers found a crushed straw and a half-empty glass.

"In Gujarat," said Harish Patel, "there are several temples that are known for being places where God comes and eats during annakut. But this is the first time it's happened here."

Anila Patel said she visited Gujarat soon after her vision and was surprised to find the news preceded her.

"I was sitting in a temple in Nadiad waiting for my husband," she said. "I overheard two women saying, 'Did you know that in Chicago a girl saw Lord Swaminarayan eating ladoos?'"

Embarrassed, she let them walk away without telling them she was that girl.

India's future here

The Swaminarayan temple in Bartlett will be the biggest in North America.

It is a metaphor, perhaps, for the impact Indian immigrants are having on the suburbs. There are 125,000 living here now.

More than any other ethnic group in the Chicago area, they make the suburbs their home. But, as evidenced by the many houses of worship here now, they can never leave India entirely behind.

"Just as on every street corner there's a different type of church, Indians also have different types of temples," said Subrahmanyam Vemuri, president of the Hindu Temple of Greater Chicago. Located in Lemont, that temple's attendees finished a $4.5 million community center in 2001.

There are 17 Hindu temples in the greater Chicago area. All of them are built primarily with donations from Indian immigrants. Many are expanding, which underscores both the growth of the Indian community as well as its growing wealth.

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=0 width=200 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>side_temple_9.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photocaption>In the Swaminarayan temple in Ahmedabad, a devotee walks clockwise around the shrine, barefoot.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>The Balaji Temple in Aurora added 50 acres to its 20-acre site last October and is in the midst of a $4 million expansion, said temple manager Tulsi Das Kakarala.

Other Indian faiths are growing, too. The Sikhs are finishing a new $2 million temple in Palatine. Elsewhere, a $1.5 million mosque is coming to Schaumburg to serve the Indian Muslim community. It is being designed so that one of its walls can easily be knocked down to accommodate growth.

Devotees of the Jain Temple, just up Route 59 from the Swaminarayans, are waiting for a permit to begin a $5 million expansion, said temple president Niranjan Shah.

"We are all trying to recreate India here," Vemuri said.

For all of them, it's a labor of love. A way of making a mark in new ground. Most of all, it's a way to ensure they never forget who they are.

When Harish Patel walks inside the nascent Bartlett temple, he closes his eyes and lets the sandalwood incense wash over him. "Am I in India?" he thinks. "Or am I here?"

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How can you follow a sanstha like Vadtal? LOL because bhagwan Swaminarayan said so. Wish to argue with such? This is'nt about who looks nice from the outside but the fundamental principles of the inside.

Here take a look:

In Sadguru Nirgun Swami vaato 60.

Shriji Maharaj Shri Gadhpur madhe viraajman hata. Potani aaghar sadhu harijan ni sabha bethi hati. Eh samay Shriji raaji thay ne Gunatitanand Swami pratye bolya ke “aah haar pehro ane aajthi tame jirangadh (Junagadh) na Mahant”. Gunatitanand Swami kahe “nah Maharaj mare mahantay noh haar pehrvo nathi”. Chahta Maharaj kahe “pehro”.

Maharaj no gano agrah joi ne Gunatitanand Swami bolya ke “ah Gopalanand Swami prativarsh ek maas mane bhagvad katha kehva jirangadh padhaare toh haar pehrvu”. Eh saambhri Maharaj Gopalanand Swami ne puchyu “Kem Gopalanand Swami, Gunatitanand Swami ne bhagvad katha prativarsh tame Junagadh jasho?” Gopalanand Swami kahe “Maharaj, aap jem agna karsho tem karish”. Etle Maharaje Gunatitanand Swamine kahyu ke “Gopalanand Swami Junagadh avvani haa pade che. Maate tame haar pehro”.

Pachi Gunatitanand Swami haar pehryo ne mahant thaya. Tyathi Gopalanand swami pan pote pruthvi upar rahya sudhi Bhagwanni vato kehva prativarsh Junagadh Padharta hata; ane koi varas na javaay to bije varase jaine beh maas rehta hata.

108-109 it states:

Potane deh mukva aada paanch divas rahya hata tyare Shriji Maharaj ardhi raatre bolya ke "amari pase kaun che?" etle kahyu ke "Mulji Brahmchari, Shukmuni, tatha Ratanjibhai tran jan che". Sambhri Shriji Maharaj Bolya ke "Ek Muktanand Swami pan bolvavi laavo pan bija koi nahi".

Pachi Ratanjibhai Muktanand Swami ne bolaavi lavya ane teh avi ne Maharaj paase betha. Maharaje temne puchyu ke "amaro vishvaas che?" temre kahyu ke "amare tamro sampurna vishvaas che". Pachi Shriji Maharaj kahyu ke "Tame sarvo Gopalanand Swami ni agna ma rehjo, Akshardhaam ma pan teh sarvane vartaave che. Ane Jeh Mool Akshar che tej eh che".

Muktanand Swami bolya ke "Maharaj, eh toh mota che!" Pan atla divas eh vaat amne kem na kahi?" tyare shriji bolya ke "atla divas na kahi, teh toh ketlak juna ne theek na pade teh mate na kahi pan have emni agna mah rehjo". Etle Muktanand Swami bolya ke, Maharaj ame nischay emni agna mah rehshu". Em kahi ne vandan karya.

There is much more about Gopalanand Swamis talks about teaching Gunatitanand Swami about his Bahayvrutti being siddh hence he has vikshep in samadhi. So Gopalanand swami taught Gunatitanand Swami over the how to meditate without being troubled by Vikshep.

So how does a Akshar Purshottam Sanstha exist? there is no such talks of it. in fact such a way of worship is against the teachings of the Vedas as well as Ramanuj Acharya.

I think you have'nt been reading Bhagwans scriptures carefully. By the way sadhus who do such are considered Vimukhs and are chucked out.

Prove where such incidents have happened and the Vadtal trustees have not excommunicated such sadhus or acharyas. LOL You cant. So stop trying to chuck sand at the sun as it only end up in your own eyes.

By the way read Adharanand Swamis scripture!!!! Tarang 7-Pur 6. Clearly shows why you should follow the sampraday and excommunicate the non followers of the fundamental teachings of Swaminarayan Bhagwan. This is the reason why yagnapurush swami (creator of BAPS in 1907) was excommunicated.

You come out with such as you have no proof of what you follow according to swaminarayan Bhagwan. LOL. Its you guys who are jealous for why should we be jealous?? We have undoctored original scriptures, we have no issue with Shlokas, Artis and the likes and so do not change them. We do not take ninda of sadhus and Dharmvansh liek you do, we have original Prasadi Murtis and divine brahmnisth saints who have the ability to talk to Bhagwan day in day out. The adharms like yoursleves are vachan drohis and guru drohis. As you fail to follow Swaminarayan Bhagwans teachings.

Pur 6, Tarang 7 i translate for the likes of you here, Shriji maharaj says:

"Ane amara vachan na mane ane raat divas amari pase rahi sava kare, tene ame door maniye chiye. Amara karta ame amara vachanne mukya maniye chiye. Amari pache dharm rahe evi vyavastha ame samay ave karishu. Dharm paarvama dharmvansh nu kul jeh hoy teh dradh pane varte. Kul paramparanu jene abhyaas hoy teh gun tene jaldi ave. Sau emnu ashrit rehvu and teh ashray chorvo nahi game tem thaay. Eh sambhri Ramdasbhai raji thaya ane kahyu ke amne toh tame malya eh moto labh thay gayo che. satsang mate tame jeh karo teh heet maaj hase.



Shriji maharaj: "W***ver does not follow what I have required all to follow and even if they serve Me day and night, I consider such persons very far away from me. I hold My word more important than Myself! Before I depart the earth I shall establish the true way in which dharm can be practiced. In doing so the Dharmvansh acharyas will regulate this dharm with firm conviction. Always remain in the Dharmvansh acharyas refuge no matter what happens. After hearing this Ramdasbhai Swami was very happy and said that we are very lucky that we have met You. Whatever You do for the satsang is for its best.


By the way you never answer the questions or my post i ask you like the ones above. why is it so? Is it because you have no proof to back up what you follow with the words of Swaminarayan Bhagwan and His orthodox authentic scriptures? well if its the case then you have been answered above with swaminarayan bahgwans own words.

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  • 1 month later...

first of all BAPS is not wrong according to the vedas or according to our Swaminarayan upasana. Shastriji maharaj who established BAPS just 100 yrs ago - did not leave vartal because he wanted to be crowned- he brought out the truth - that even the Acharyas feared to speak in public ( dont get me wrong - but it takes ALOT of courage to speak up to millions of people ESPECIALLY when the Sampraday was so new- so i can understand the Acharyas situation).even the Acharya at that time knew and wrote in his personal diary reffering to Gunatitanand swami "MUL AKSHAR BRAHMA GUNATITANAND SWAMI" Shastriji maharaj was excommunicated by the acharya of that time - who himself got excommunicated by the vartal mandir- and this is the Vartal mandirs version of story that was written by an english author - book is called an introduction to the Swaminarayan hinduism so when you say that Maharaj keeps only those close who live by His word - THAT IS VERY TRUE-Meaning just because you're born in a certain family - DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL BE CLOSER TO GOD


Shastriji Maharaj left vartal only with five santos and a handful of haribhaktos- He had Arthritis and on top of that there was sooo much opposition from the vartal yet he persevered to speak in open about the true upasana of Lord Swaminarayan.he started out with nothing ... and now see - world wide people know about Lord Swaminarayan - why? Mainly because of BAPS and Pramukh Swami Maharaj This is not a matter of boasting, but in gujarati they say "sache deware ghant waage" The reason that BAPS is one of the fastest growing Hindu sampradays in the world - ( according to American scholars and the Guiness World book of records) IS BECAUSE MAHARAJ LIVES IN EVERY PORE OF PRAMUKH SWAMI MAHARAJ (thats the closest you can ever get to anyone really)

if you want proof where Maharaj himself has claimed Gunatitanand Swami as Akshardham - read this- Kuraji Dave of Pipalana was present in this assembly. Maharaj addressed him, and said, "When Ramanand Swami had arrived at Pipalana from Bhuj, you had come to Loj to convey his message to Muktanand Swami."At that time, as a reward for the good news you had brought, Muktanand Swami had given you a kerchief. Then I had told you, "Right now I don't have anything to give you, but go, I shall give you in gift My Akshardham. Do you remember this? Kuraji replied, "Yes, Maharaj." He was overwhelmed and felt that Maharaj would give him something. Maharaj then began to laugh and said, "Take it. This Gunatitanand Swami, who is My Akshardham, is gifted to you. I have not been able to grant My adequate happiness to satsangis of Sorath region and therefore, I dedicate this Sadhu to you. He is My Akshardham and he is My everything. So your work will be done if you'll serve him properly and remain in his company."


Gopalanand swami who was Bhagatji maharajs Guru and also Vignanand swami who was Shastriji maharajs Guru admitted infront of about five other haribhaktos - that Gunatitanand swami was Akshardham.


if it wasn't for Gunatitanand swami people would still be thinking that Maharaj was an incarnation of Lord Vishnu. Gunatitanand Swami was the only one at that time who faced soooo much difficulty and yet said the facts out loud the way they were- where as all the Acharyas and also the other Nand Swamis were afraid of the codemnation from the general public(- which again i can understand - they didnt want the satsang that came up with such difficulty to collapse). to the point that they re-edited the vachanamrut by removing the extra vachanamruts where Maharaj Himself Says that He is the all supreme God. - U should read the personal diaries of the people of that time - then u would know. May be the only problem with that is - u only have access to the edited version of everything- which u were given by the temple.


my intention is not to say that the Vartal sampraday is any lesser- but its the matter of what is the truth.


PS: do not ever point fingers at Pramukh Swami Maharaj in a negetive connotation. He is a the true Sadhu that Maharaj talks of in the Vachanamrut- and Maharaj also says that one who will take abhaav avgun of a true sant will never be redeemed- because when a person makes a mistake he goes to a pilgrimage place to wash his sins - but one that sins in the pilgrimage place never gets redeemed! So save yourself from eternal damnation - even if you do not believe in him

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Firstly stating what you do contradicts Muktanand swami, Nishkulanand Swami, Nirgunanand Swami and foremost Shriji Maharaj. This means that you think that Nirgun Swami is wrong in stating such. Like I have stated above.

First of all do you regard your Shastri Maharaj as greater than all the nand santos? Why do you feel they couldn’t have done this if it was true otherwise? Why have none of the Nand Santos wrote about such in their scriptures? This is wrong and foolish of you to think such. 100 years ago the Sampraday was not new. BAPS happened more than a century later than the actual Sampraday was created. The Acharyas did not fear the followers. So from where do you get your information from? That they were afraid to speak to the public? Please also refer me to the scripture where the Acharyas talk of Gunatitanand Swami as Mool Akshar?

By stating this your clearly stating that the likes of Nirgun Swami a nand sant is wrong in what he writes. Yagnapurush Swami was made to leave has he was preaching that which was not in accordance with the scriptures and the Siddhant/principle of Shriji Maharaj. Thus he was excommunicated. Where is the Gunatit parampara in the scriptures? When Shriji Maharaj was leaving for Akshardham He clearly stated that what HE came for has all been accomplished. Then why do you think that your Swami had the need to accomplish more by putting Gunatitanand swami on the altars? Don’t you think Shriji Maharaj would have done this Himself if it were the case? Why do you think that He is the choicest devotee? All are His devotees. God doesn’t have favourites. This Upasna is against the Vedas clearly. The Vedas do not state of God having a favourite and choicest devotee. There is no other secret Upasna. It is nowhere in the scriptures.


You have not even seen the saints that I follow and you carry on blindly following what you do. You ignore saints that exist today in mandirs like Bhuj and Amdavad. These saints stay away from this media and what not. They are in Gujarati what you call ‘Maharaj ma Magna’. They are like Nand Santos. American scholars cannot comprehend the greatness of Shriji Maharaj and santos. They cannot even rid their own inner enemies. What then can they state about the Sampraday as it is? You see, the orthodox Sampraday of Shriji Maharaj does not wish to look great in the eyes of American scholars nor do its saints wished to be recognised by the Guinness book of records etc. In terms of the most growing then you are once again wrong. Islam is growing immensely. Does this mean that we should follow that too? No.

You are wrong. You people assume too much. This is the fault with you. You think that because Shriji Maharaj stated this it means that. Well if you read the scriptures like Haricharitramrut Sagar then you will come to know that Shriji Maharaj has given boons of Akshardham all the way through it. This doesn’t prove that Gunatitanand Swami is Akshar at all. Also this about Kuraji Dave. If it were exactly as you have stated I and all the followers who read the authentic scriptures would have read this. In the Swaminarayan Sampraday there are 225 scriptures. Name me that one scripture where this incident is clearly noted with reference. Till then anyone can write and post things on here. You need prove. Truth is it didn’t occur. You assume this is what it means and insert your own theory by adding the Name of Gunatitanand Swami. I have read about this leela of Swaminarayan Bhagwan. Shriji Maharaj got so happy that He promised that He would give Akshardham to the Bhakt. But Nowhere is it mentioned that he meant Gunatitanand swami. This literally means that the Bhakt got Moksh and after death went to Akshardham.

Also you state that Shriji Maharaj gave the Bhakt Gunatitanand Swami for the Sorath Desh. But truth is Swami became Mahant later on. So before this swami used to travel with Shriji Maharaj and live in Gadhpur or go where Shriji Maharaj used to tell the saints to go in their mandals. Gunatitanand Swami used to look after Bhai Atmanand Swami before he became a mahant of Junagadh Mandir.

Gopalanand Swami has never ever admitted that Gunatitanand swami is guru. This is a lie. Why is it that Gunatitanand swami himself talks of Akshar as ‘olya’ meaning the other or that one? Referring to someone else in his vatos. Why is it that he pleaded to Shriji Maharaj that he would only become mahant if Gopalanand Swami would come to give him darshan and give gyaan in Junagadh? It was Gopalanand Swami who showed Gunatitanand Swami how to do Dhyaan without getting vikshep and also teach him to realise Shriji Maharaj as He was. Sarva Avtaari. His is the reason why Shriji Maharaj put the hands of the Achayas in his hands before Maharaj’s antardhyaan leela to Akshardham. That only Gopalanand swami knew Shriji Maharaj clearly. No other Nand sant or Acharyas was also afraid. You are confused. It seems that you have not even read about these saints. They were not the sought to be afraid of anything. They were like lions. I have heard another BAPS devotee also state that the Nand Santos were afraid. This is so silly. Vyapkanand Swami went into the Loka of bhumapurush and on the way was thousands armed and headed demons which Swami defeated. So how can you state they were “afraid” of anything? Truth is you do not have the mahima of these nand saints. You also think that this Satsang would have collapsed? No way. This Sampraday will shine till the sun and moon do. Shriji maharaj Himself has stated so. So that’s wrong – “yaavat surya chandara divaakare”. Also no Vachnamrut has been removed. Their were thousands of Vachnamruts. Now the ones that were doubling up were taken away. These Vachnamruts were done so with the authority of God in Laksmi Vadi. The Nand santos showed Shriji Maharaj which ones were doubled and Shriji Maharaj was shown the composed total of 273 Vachnamruts. History and the scriptures too clearly show this. Not one of such Vachnamruts were removed. Take a look for Gadhada III 38 for example. Clearly shows Shriji Maharaj as Avtaari. We have full versions as the yare. Its BAPS that have the doctored scriptures. Proof that all is changed within the scriptures is the arti itself. BAPS have not even spared the Original arti as it is written by Muktanand Swami. So what to talk of all the other scriptures? BAPS followers follow blindly. They do not even read he scriptures. Hence open your eyes lad and see for yourself that its your scriptures that have been adulterated and edited. I should know as I have read both sides and seemn so much proof in India with my own eyes. Talking alone will not show you this proof. You have to go out and search for it like I and many others did.

The matter is surely of the truth. By the way if you want to know what a true Sadhu is read the bhaktchintamani which Nishkulanand Swami has written. You do not read scriptures and you just want to type that this is true and that is not. Im sure pramukh swami is a nice person. But he does not follow what Mahraj has stated for sadhus to follow. For example a true Sadhu does not like to live life of leisure and sit on golden thrones and accept such material items. Even Gunatitanand Swami did no such thing. He was a great saint. Nor does he show the devoid way nor go against the scriptures of the faith. Nor go against the Acharyas and other true saints like Shriji Maharaj has stated in the Satsangi Jivan and Desh Vibhaag lekh. This is not avgun. Avgun is that which is not true yet is stated. I’m stating what is true so its not avgun. Vachnamrut clearly states what is avgun and what is not. I walk in the shadow and wipe the dust of true saints on my forehead. What shall you know of such saints? If you even saw the saints that I follow you would realise what I talk of. I do not follow blindly. I follow those saints who have constant rapport with Bhagwan and not go against the Niyams of sadhus dharm that Shriji Maharaj has stated.


BAPS and its followers and so called sadhus also violate many of the principles of Swaminarayan bhagwan. There are many such rules prescribed which are broken. I will give you just one of these hundreds of vilated rules of God. For example Shloka 62 of the main scripture the Sikshapatri. Here God states that those idols which have not been consecrated by the Dharmvanshi Acharya should not be worshipped just reverently bowed to. so why do you worship the murtis in BAPS mandirs. What is your explanation to this? As Shatanand Swami already has doen a commentary on this Shloka in the Sikshapatri Bhasya. What more does BAPS need tp add? LOL please do reply as i await your response on this Shloka alone. There is so much more. This is just the Sikshapatri, you can imagine the rest of the 225 scriptures of the faith. .

Like you stated… you need to do some more reading. After this reading do come and tell me about anything you like. Would be happy to discuss.

I pray that Swaminarayan Bhagwan may show you the correct path in pleasing Him and also give you the strength to follow the true Agna and Upasna as it is.


Jai Swaminarayan.

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Pramukh Swami understands everything. He knows whats right. But i feel he thinks its best if he carries on.


God bless Him loads however. I bear him and those who do not criticise the Original diocese no ill will at all.

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1. BAPS is the fastest growing Hindu Sampraday In the world. This does not mean that you follow the most popular religion of the era - POINT WAS THAT MAHARAJ IS WITH US AT ALL TIMES THATS WHY WE GROW ... AND WILL GROW - MAHARAJ NI DAYA THI.

2. U said why should Maharaj have a choiciest devotee - u also said that all are equal in the eyes of God. But Maharaj said differently in the Vachanamrut - Uve read so u probably know. people who think the way you do are kusangis - Maharaj says - Je barobariya mane tene kusangi janvo- te vimukh chhe.


dude shreeji Maharaj wanted to have his own murti installed in the madhya khand of the amdavad mandir - but they didn't let him - why ? cos it would look bad among the people - this is written in one of our authentic scriptures - i dont remember which one- but it is.


During Maharaj's time no one was ready to say out loud that He Is Sarva Karta. - U must have got that from the authentic scriptures that you read ? - tell me somthing - i don't know if youve read about this - but Bhagatji Maharaj ( Pragji Bhakta ) was Gopalanand Swami's Shishya - He was also told by Gopalanand Swami - during his last moments - to go to Junaghad because- Mul Akshar tyaan Viraajman chhe- and he did exactly that- was he lying too ? (this was said and written by Pragji Bhakt) - a person who left all his wealth in order to stay in communion with his Guru ... why would he lie about such a thing - tell me ? what justification does YOUR sampraday give - for Shastriji Maharaj to leave vadtal and choose a life full of trials and tribulations - why would he have done that - if he wanted he could have shut up and had a good life in vadtal - then why did He choose this path of difficulties? because he wanted people to know the true principle behind Swaminarayan. U read the scriptures but did not logically think about that. U said Maharaj was Sarva karta right - then why is it that BAPS grew ? if it was wrong why did it not stop - but kept and still keeps on growing at a high pace. MAHARAJ IS DOING THAT - HE IS SARVA KARTA. Jo E bhadyaa naa hot to amari haalat sokdha mandir jevi thai hot. IF IT IS SUCH A BIG SIN TO FOLLOW PRAMUKH SWAMI MAHARAJ AND TO BELIEVE THAT LORD SWAMINARAYAN IS PURNA PURSHOTTAM NARAYAN - AND GUNATITANAND SWAMI IS AKSHARBRAHMA - SO BE IT ! I HAVE JUST AS MUCH FAITH IN MY SAMPRADAY AND MY GURUS - AS NITYANAND SWAMI HAD IN MAHARAJ BUT IN TRUE FACT IT IS NOT A SIN

and ill prove it to you :)

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1. Islam grows and will grow. Does that mean Shriji Maharaj is with them too??? Secondly there are more followers in the Original Sampraday of Shriji Maharaj and it is too growing day by day. So your theory holds no water.

2. No you are wrong. You are calling me kusangi. But when did I state that all are barobariya? HAHA. Your very wrong. Barabariya is then when you have no mahima of Ekantik bhakts and Mukt Jeevs. That you think of all like yourself who are full of antarshatrus etc. So this is not Barobariya panu. HAHA. So try again. I know great Nand santos were far too great. I know there are hundreds of true saints today and also great grahast bhakts who have the ability to have constant rapport with Bhagwan. I know that such great saints in the original orthodox Sanstha that Shriji maharaj Himself established which so called sianst feel out from and started BAPS feel out from, that there are real saints in this true orthodox Satsang who go into dhyaan for days even today. So how can this be barobariyapanu? HAHA. Learn your terms right. Know their meanings before shaming yourself.

Your seriously disturbed. Please state with clear reference and proof from the scriptures where Bhagwan wanted to consecrate His murti with Nar Narayan dev in Amdavad. This is nowhere stated. You are messed up. HAHAHAHA. OH my god. Shows how little you know. First of all nobody can stop God. Who are you blaming? The Nand santos? As the Acharyas were fully in accordance with Shriji Maharaj. Who stopped god from doing such? God is not limited. I think you see Bhagwan as limited so you state such. Secondly just in case you do not know…. Bhagwan consecrated His own Murti in Vadtal as Harikrushna Maharaj. It was Yagnapurush who wanted to force the Acharyas to put Gunatitanand swami there.

During maharaj many stated and knew that Shriji maharaj is sarva karta. The scriptures all declare this and so do Kirtans even. For example Premanand Swamis kirtan Aaj mare orade re, and many of the other Nand Padvi Santos. You desperately need to get your facts right. I read all authentic scriptures. We all read this. We can even go and have darshan of these original shastras when we go yatra with the Bhuj Mandir santos to Vadtal or Amdavad. Its standard.

Gopalanand swami has never stated such to bhagatji bhakt. This is fabricated by the BAPS lot to uphold their philosophy. I mena come on this can be easily done. Bhagatji is never mentioned n even one of the authentioc scriptures. He grew up after Shriji Maharaj went Akshardhaam. You are clealy stating that Nand sant Nirgun swami is a liar. As Gunatitanand swami became mahant of Junagadh only after Gopalanand swami stated that he would come to give him darshan and gyaan in Junagadh. Not just this but Nirgun swamis vato also states that Shriji maharaj clearly stated that Gunatitanand swami was the incarnation of one of the Sankadiks. So your not agreeing with this??????????? Answer this very question first. Do you not agree with nirgun swami? Even Adbhutanand Swamis vato shows that Gopalanand swami was Akshar incarnate. You need to do much more reading. That’s all I can say to you. My Sampraday is the very Sampraday Shriji Maharaj established. So don’t come here stating “your sampraday, your sampraday” its ‘shriji maharajs sampraday’. HAHA. Gopalanand Swami stated that Bhagatji should go to gunataitanand swmai and make him his guru as swami had imparted a lot of knowledge to Gunatitanand swami. Even Gunatitanand swami clearly shows this in his vato. But BAPS have changed all this to suit them. I have read the scriptures and know clearly. Why is it that only yagnapurush Swami thought like this out of so many thousands of Swamis? Truth is he was misguided and decided he should change thing as to how he saw it. It’s the same with everything. Why do you think that Ragunathdasji thought Shriji maharaj was not Bhagwan and wanted to do his own thing? Why is it that Hitler alone showed everyone the Nazi way? Im not comparing your swami to these but showing this as a example to how one is mistaken. Where is the logic you state shown in the scriptures?

Just like the swami who has broken away from BAPS and created Haridham Sokhda and same as papaji and all them. They feel they should be the head of BAPS. Why didn’t they all shut up and live a good life in BAPS with Pramukh Swami? Same thing. Why does Hariprasad swami talk of pramukh swami hitting him and him being beaten a lot in BAPS. Why he have to make his own yogi divine society instead of living a happy life in BAPS? Same thing my friend same thing if you look at it carefully.

BAPS maybe growing. Well so does ISLAM, sikkhism at a high pace etc. Yes Shriji Maharaj is sarva karta. Does this mean He should accept Islam as the right way? How they kill goats and cows? No he does not. Same way BAPS may be growing, but Maharaj does not agree with what it follows, it’s a test. This can be seen in the scriptures. Are you telling me the Sikshapatri is wrong in stating that those who do not follow it should be excommunicated? Well then. You do not agree wit hmany Shlokas in the Sikshapatriu nor do you BAPS members follow it. Truth is you cant. Hence you are all excommunicated as Shriji Maharaj states at the end. You do not even answer all my post carefully. Even the ones I aim for you above. You state that the original ones are drowned and burnt just because it does not fit in with your BAPS philosophy. You do not even debate properly.

Nityanand swami did not worship Gunatitanand swami as Akshar. He knew Gopalanand swami was Akshar, He states so on the wall of Kariyani Akshar oradi. Go have a look when you see.

Param Chaitanyanand Swami clearly states so in Gopalanand Swamis vato:

Shriji Maharaj was in assembly in Kariyani. Just then Gopalanand Swami and His mandal came from Varodra. He went to take a wash and took more time in coming into the assembly. Shriji Maharaj then got agitated and asked Nishkulanand swami to call him. Just then Shriji Maharaj went into the Akshar Oradi. Nishkulanand swami then bought Gopalanand Swam to the Akshar Oradii. Gopalanand Swami went in and did Dandvat darshan of Bhagwan. Shriji Maharaj embraced Gopalanand swami. Nishkulanand Swami waited at the doorway. Shriji Maharaj asked Gopalanand Swami “how are you swami? Are you well? I have wanted to meet you for a while now”. Swami and Maharaj talked for a while. Then Shriji Maharaj said swami do you know who you are?”. Gopalanand swam replied “ Maharaj I do no not”. Shriji Maharaj then stated that “you are Mool Akshar, I sent you from my abode a few months before I descended on the earth”. At this point Nishkulanand Swami was listening. Shriji Maharaj then told him to finish off the chuno (limestone) for the well. Swami replied “its done Maharaj”. So Shriji Maharaj “no it is not, go finish it off swami”. So Nishkulanand Swami had heard this. This Nishkulanand swami told to Param Chaityanand and is clearly stated by him in Gopalanand Swamis Vato which he collected alone with other nand santos in their own writings which can be got for darshan even today. Do you say that these nand santos are lying?

I wait for you to prove to me whatever you can. Like you stated… you need to do some more reading. After this reading do come and tell me about anything you like. Would be happy to discuss.

<?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:p></u1:p>I pray that Swaminarayan Bhagwan may show you the correct path in pleasing Him and also give you the strength to follow the true Agna and Upasna as it is.

Jai Swaminarayan.

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  • 3 weeks later...


just as chaitanya is considered an incarnation ofkrishna as an idel krishna devotee, sahajananda is considered as an ideal sadhu incarnation of krishna. he incarneted with is residence -dhama - personified who was his first disciple - gunatitananda. gunatitananda however later kept telling that krishna is not above sahajananda but under which went against the word of even sahajananda.


well, let not this begin a hot debate within us the vedic people. swinarayns are also vedic people, and they are very united and effective in getting things done, and also have lot of money too. their temple in amdavad was attached by islam terrorosts a 2-3 years ago.


theirs is a branch of ramanuj sampradaya, but ramanuj sampradaya does not recognise it.


I am new to Vaisnava philosophy, I have read pastimes and Krishna book. Can someone please explain to me what qualifies some person to be avatar - incarnation of God Himself ?

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First of all "some person" cannot be an avtaar. Avtaar is God Himself. Parmatma Purshottam. He is described in the scriptures. All the major Avtaars are described within the scriptures. The ones that may not be described are also Avtaars.


Avtaars do not take some kind of exam for them to be qualified to be Avtaar. LOL. God is God. Does'nt need a qalification to become who HE is as HE will remain and always was God.

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  • 4 months later...


1. Islam grows and will grow. Does that mean Shriji Maharaj is with them too??? Secondly there are more followers in the Original Sampraday of Shriji Maharaj and it is too growing day by day. So your theory holds no water.


Jai Swaminarayan.


well said das ke das. its not quantity that matters, its quality. windows control 98% of OS market, but there are many other better quality OS's.

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I am a BAPS follower....and i got here because i was doing some search on google...i dint want to comment but i felt a bit hurt reading all the comments...


I am not as learnt as you'll, but surely could say that Swaminarayan Bhagwan is not very proud of us here.....instead of fighting on our Swabhav....we are fighting on what is rite and wrong.....just like you'll have found a real guru....others will too....in thier own way....its the way Maharaj pleases.....as HE said "amara halavya vina panddu pun na hale" (without his wish a leaf cant move)


Our one goal as a Swaminarayan should be Maharaj and nothing else...let others do what they want....try and book ur seat in Akshardahm....once when u r in akshardahm that's it...


Respect Swaminarayan Bhagwan....dont fight like this...i googled Swaminarayan and i came here...thus 100's will and might...and if they see the way we argue...they are not going to be impressed by teaching of Swaminarayan Bhagwan...


there are several temple's-mahant's-preacher's of Brahma-Vishnu (Krishna-Ram) - Shiv....but i am not sure if they would be fighting like we do....


if u realy want to post, post murti's - bhajan that praise the lord - videos -etc.....so next time when someone does a search on google....they come across beautifull and praises of God...


I am not perfect.......i am still trying to be a Human....I am sure you'll are already 100% humans...and my humble request to u 100% humans is to respect Bhagwan and his reason of coming on this earth....


Thank you



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Jai Swaminarayan and many humble dandvats to you.

Sometimes truth hurts after following one thing and learning something quite opposite. Swaminarayan Bhagwan is proud of those who do Satsang with Agna and Upasna. When we follow Satsang we learn to rid of Svabhaavs and also have to rid of inner enemies like Kaam, krodh and also the Panch Vishays.

Yes without Shriji mahraj’s involvement nothing is possible. But that doesn’t mean we leave everything to him and do all karma and say Its Mahara’s wish as not even a leaf moves without His will. As we have to do Purush pretna as well. We have to act accordingly and perform Karmas within the Maryada of Shriji Maharaj’s command only. These commands He has personally set up for us.

Akshardham should not be our goal. Shriji Maharaj has stated that a true Bhakt does not even wish for the four types of Mukti. Our main aim is to PLEASE Shriji Maharaj. This we can do only through following His Agna and Upasna. Only when we start doing this our antarshatrus become nirmal and then our svabhaavs and karan shareer (with the grace of Shriji Maharaj or His TRUE saints) starts to burn away.

We do not fight. We debate. As to the true Siddhant of Shriji Maharaj. The philosophy He laid down. We can learn this from the scriptures or the saints who have studied these scriptures only. Our aim is not to fight. But to show people the true path. We can only respect Bhagwan by reading and following what Shriji Maharaj established. Otherwise we are stepping on His word. Tomorrow there will be more paths that break away and start following what they like to follow. We cannot accept them all. Truth remains truth. If we want to make Shriji Maharaj happy then we should search this truth and follow it.

I am also not perfect. If peace is wanted then one should at least not dig up dirt about the philosophy of Shriji Maharaj.

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Jay Swami Narayan


well if that makes you happy :)


i just commented coz it hurted me.....i googled on Swaminarayan (Maharaj's name - not on LaxmiNarayan Dev Gadi nor NarNarayan Dev Gadi - BAPS nor anything) and came across the debate....do you think my search result was rite???


i would have been happy if i would have found leela's of Maharaj....some great Prasang...pichture's...that would help some common man like me to PLEASE Maharaj....


to be honest i do wish for Akshardham and wish to sit next to him...just like after too much work/frustation/happiness/anger/ any other feeling U would wish to hug ur mother/father/sister/brother/wife/husband...i wish to hug Maharaj and be with him 24/7...i have Mandir @ my home where i do aarti-thal-pooja... i visit Mandir and sit in sabha every Saturday/Sunday and possibly more and i find it blissful.....i talk to him...i hug him...i feel him..but my responsibilities take me away from him....so i wish to be with him in Akshardham...and i dont think God would want to deny to that.....


THANKS PUREINDIAN for the link....thats Chesta(leela chintamani)

i also found the Doha of Maharaj's description which was cool too :) i do have a cassate and i get to hear that everymorning :)


if you'll have something similar....or more pic's, mobile screensavers, some prasangs of Maharaj....kindly post them...


Thanks and Jay SwamiNarayan

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Firstly you treat the name Swaminarayan as two different names with spacing. Its not two different names. Its one name for Purshottam Narayan and Him only. None else.

Its not a case of making myself happy. Like I said, our aim is not to fight. But to show people the true path. We can only respect Bhagwan by reading and following what Shriji Maharaj established. Otherwise we are stepping on His word. Tomorrow there will be more paths that break away and start following what they like to follow. We cannot accept them all. Truth remains truth. If we want to make Shriji Maharaj happy then we should search this truth and follow it.

Well I am sorry it hurt you. No other person has yet apologised yet I will. If you want to find leelas, prasangs and pictures your better off going on the actual website and not search on search engines. However i do post scriptural shastric quotes and references which we can all learn from. As there is a need for people to realise Shriji Maharaj’s doctrine as it is. We do not debate for selfish reasons we identify from scriptures and reveal here for the goodness of the soul. We have come alone and will go alone and we will have to answer to the agna and upasna we may have not carried out. There is a lot you can learn on forums.

We all want to hug Him, touch Him and talk to Him and many do today even in the form of Mansi Pujas. Shriji Maharaj has even said in Vachnamrut that where Shriji Maharaj is and His saints and Bhakts are.. This is Akshardham. If we ask for His dhaam then we become sakaam.

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