Shiva worship in ancient Arabia

[barney 0]

Shiva worship in ancient Arabia

By Muzaffar Hussain

 

CULTURAL affinity is stronger than even national unity. Because any chunk of land comes alive only when culture infuses life into it. Two hostile nations can be brought back to amity only when the cultural bonds between them are activated. This was the thread Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee picked up to revive the pre-partition cultural bonds between the two scions of the Akhand Bharat. He, therefore, chose artistes and poets to accompany him on his occidental odyssey in quest of amity with Pakistan, because only the cultural appeal could touch the right chord. Thus the sympathetic resonance alone can be expected to replace the chronic mutual distrust with mutual trust and friendship. The style of prayer or the method of worship can always be shorter in life than a nation. Therefore, the particular way of living that has evolved on a particular stretch of land is recorded in the history of that land. This history concretizes that country's heritage, and that country preserves this heritage and bases its plans for future development on this legacy.

 

Pakistan may have declared itself an Islamic State. But it cannot shed its ancient heritage dating back to the Mohenjo Daro and Harappa civilization. And its most famous national hero can only be the great grammarian Panini. The fanatic religious madness called Taliban may attempt to destroy every vestige of pre-Islamic Civilization, but it cannot deny the historical reality of Afghanistan's ancient religions of Vedic or Parsi fire-worship. In spite of Iran's embracing Islam, Cyrus, Sohrab and Rostam are even today hailed as Iranian icons. Gandhar (modern Kandhar) cannot disown Gandhari and the Mahabharat. Iran may observe the most militant form of Islam, but when the question of their ethnic origin arises, the Iranians proudly claim their Aryan descent.

 

Kafvinak Zikramin Ulumin tab aseru

Kaluvan Amatatul hava a lazakkuru

Na tazasveroha udan elelavada-a lilavra

Valuka ene zatallahe aum tab aseru

Va aha lolaha Azah aramian Mahadev

Manozel ilamuddine Minahum va savatt aru

 

That means :

 

"Can the person, who indulged in bad deeds and lustful and angry activities, be granted salvation if he repents, atones for and proposes to embrace dharma and follow righteous path?

 

If he worships Lord Mahadev with true devotion he can attain the highest position in spiritual attainments."

 

The name of Mahadev is mentioned in the Arabic original exactly as it is pronounced in Sanskrit or other Indian languages.

Umer bin Hashsham further says, "Oh Lord! Grant me a day's stay in India in exchange for my entire life, because by reaching there a man attains salvation."

 

Va sahabe ke vam fim kamil Hinde you man

Yakulun na lajaha jan fainnak tavajjaru

Another poet is cited in this same book on p. 257 who says,

Aya mubarekal araz vashaive nohaminar Hinde

Va adarakkallah majye vashaiye nazzale zikaratun

 

The means :-

"Oh holy land India, you are great

Because God has made you to spread His Wisdom."

 

The above lines are enough to show what sentiments the Arabs entertained regarding Lord Shiva and India. Lord Shiva was held as God of knowledge, and India the land of knowledge and both were respected for their benign influence.

 

"Hind" is the name Arabs gave to India. They considered India almost like paradise and so they endearingly called their beloved daughters "Hindus" (intention was the daughters were heavenly fairies). They borrowed the figures "0 to 9" from Indian mathematicians. They called the numerals "Hindsa". Arab traders were impressed with the mouth-watering taste of Indian "tamarind". The English word itself has been a corruption of Arabic—"tamar-i-Hind" which means the "fruit of India" in Arabic. The Arabs' trade with India has been going on from ancient ages. Those guides who guided Vasco-da-Gama, the Portuguese explorer who found a new route to India in early sixteenth century, were the same Arab traders. The noted archaeologist, Shri Wakankar, has described this extensively in his book.

 

http://www.atributetohinduism.com/

[Guest guest]

what book are the quotes from?

[Sephiroth 0]

It means nothing.

 

While Arabians traded for thousands of years and probably lived in peace with Indians, everything changed when Muslims forced others to convert to their religion, symentacilly erasing Arabic past.

 

When Islam came about, Muhammad proclaimed that EVERYTHING which existed before Islam to be obsolete and ONLY Islam is accordance to God - that include Hindusm, Buddhism and Judaism.

[barney 0]

{When Islam came about, Muhammad proclaimed that EVERYTHING which existed before Islam to be obsolete and ONLY Islam is accordance to God - that include Hindusm, Buddhism and Judaism.}

 

Islam was forced into the Arabs by way of war. Otherwise Arabia would seen more Shiva temples than in India. No matter what the Muslims say they cannot get rid of that one symbol that still renails in the holy land and that is the Shivalinga in the kaaba. Can any Muslim destroy that particular black icon and say we do not worship idol? That is the challange we Hindus must ask the muslims around the world. So do not say it means nothing.

 

I AM IN YOU

[Guest guest]

It doesn't matter now does it? It's all Islamic and are never going to be shaivites again.

 

{Afghanistan's ancient religions of Vedic or Parsi fire-worship}

 

Let's not forget, it was also Buddhist.

 

{And its most famous national hero can only be the great grammarian Panini.}

 

The Pakis don't care about him and see him as Kafir anyway, so what's the point? They don't see him as national hero because he was not muslim.

 

{In spite of Iran's embracing Islam, Cyrus, Sohrab and Rostam are even today hailed as Iranian icons}

 

They were Zoroastrians and only a few of the liberal Iranians see them as icons.

 

{but when the question of their ethnic origin arises, the Iranians proudly claim their Aryan descent}

 

Not many, the ones that do are the Zoroastrian minority. The muslim Iranians like to think they are a mixture of persian and arab.

 

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Islam was forced into the Arabs by way of war. Otherwise Arabia would seen more Shiva temples than in India. No matter what the Muslims say they cannot get rid of that one symbol that still renails in the holy land and that is the Shivalinga in the kaaba. Can any Muslim destroy that particular black icon and say we do not worship idol? That is the challange we Hindus must ask the muslims around the world. So do not say it means nothing.

 

I didn't say they will deny that Arabic nations where once followers of Shavities. I said they will not give a damn.

 

Muslims already proclaim that ALL religions which came after Islam IS outdated and not fit to be followed because of corruption. They proclaim that Islam is the latest one and it is more important than pervious religions.

 

Also, they claim that a camel herder named Muhammad is the most highest and perfect person in the world and everyone must seeks to be like him. Which means Sri Krishna, Sri Rama and Gautama Buddha is BELOW Muhammad. Understood?

 

Muslims are not in state of ignorant for you to bring them knowledge, they are in state of denial - stating that ONLY Islam is perfect.

 

There's a Buddhist qoute stating - "You can wake up a sleeping man, but you can NEVER wake up someone who is pretending to be asleep".

 

Muslims are not sleeping for you to awake them, they are pretending to be asleep.

[maadhav 0]

<< Can any Muslim destroy that particular black icon and say we do not worship idol? That is the challange we Hindus must ask the muslims around the world. >>

 

so, how that challenge is going to change teh messag of koran that says convert even by force, or kill kafirs?

 

until koran is followed,

the world and Bhart and hindus will not have peace.

 

your above lines tells to debate (and win it) with muslims.

but a muslim never debates rationally.

 

irrationals only use brute force,

and they can only be controlled by brute force.

see the rise and fall of taliban which proves it.

taliban is not dead, because koran has followers.

 

[barney 0]

Remember that what is in the Kaaba is Shiva Lingam and the Muslims faith in that Lingam is much more stronger than many Hindus. Although they believe in one God and there is none other whch proves that the believe in the Supreme Brahman.

 

The Muslims had been deluded for thousand of years by their mullas that the Muslim,s God is different from the Hindu's. Which means to say they do not wish to accept the other forms but only willing to accept the Linga form. Otherwise why do they perform the Haj by going round the kaaba and kissing the hole pointing to the Linga?

 

They are indirectly praying to the Shivalingam but outwardly they deny so. Mohammad's father was the chief priest of the Kaaba during the preIslamic era and to show respect for the family diety he did not destroy the Shivalingam but all other idols. But being a cuning businessman his wish was to bring the hole world to Mecca so that the economy of Mecca would increase. That is why he called all other relgions as fake while his discovery is the true relgion.

 

Anyway, my point is whatever the Muslims claim but they cannot deny or destroy the only pillar of their faith which is the Shivalinga and the Kaaba.

 

No Muslim would want to take a challenge on that and debut on that issue. So, if they want to speak evei of Hinduism then the only weapon we can kick their butt is the Shivalingam. If they dare why not ask them to destroy it to proof that they are not idol whorshipers of Shivalimgam.

[barney 0]

The hadith is notthe holy book of the Muslims. In the Koran there is no such verse but only in the hadith which was written by some over zealous caliph for his self interest.

 

We can have peace if we unite. How could we have peace when we ourself are having so many differences in our own relgion? Te Vaishnavites against the Shiviates and vice versa. Hinduism itself is divided surely it would be a playground for the Muslims and Christians a like. Look how the dhalits are being treated by the orthodox Hindus. But when they converted to Islam or Christianity than we complain that the Muslims and Christrians are converting Hindus in mass conversion and whant the government to intervene.

 

Ofcourse a Muslims would not want to debate rationaly because he fears his faith in Allah would be shaken and morever the religion does not permit him to question the quthority of the mullas. It is our duty to break that iron curtain that shields them from knowing the real truth.

 

You may not be able to do that in open public but at least through their forums as they have penerated into ours.

 

I AM IN YOU

[Guest guest]

 

The hadith is notthe holy book of the Muslims. In the Koran there is no such verse but only in the hadith which was written by some over zealous caliph for his self interest.

 

 

Ignorant ramblings.

 

Sunnah means words teachings or actions of mohammad. How is this known. Through Muslim and Bukhari whcih are considered authentic for 1400 years.

 

Here comes this guy born within last century and says all those muslim believers were wrong, only I know the truth. Nonsense.

 

Sunnah is authentic islamic tradition. All the events mentioned in Sunnah can be corroborated from quran.

[Guest guest]

{Although they believe in one God and there is none other whch proves that the believe in the Supreme Brahman.}

 

So are you saying Allah and Brahman is the same thing? Well they are not! Allah is the Islamic concept of God and Brahman is the Hindu Vedantic concept of God. They are not the same. Allah is a jealous violent God with an ego and seeks power over the minds of men, Brahman is the Ultimate Reality and trancends all destinctions and attributes. Allah communicates through angels to prophets, Brahman is experienced directly by Rishis.

 

The Kaaba is just a black stone muslims regard as sacred. There is no proof that it is the same as the shiva lingam. Actually is there any proof that the shiva lingam ever existed in India and was stolen? But the fact that they give such importance to a black stone and do rituals to it shows that in a way muslims are idolators.

 

[maadhav 0]

why please?

 

<< We can have peace if we unite. >>

yes, if we unite to act to achieve peace.

 

<< How could we have peace when we ourself are having so many differences in our own relgion? Te Vaishnavites against the Shiviates and vice versa. Hinduism itself is divided >>

 

gita unites all the vedic paths.

not knowing it properly causes un-necessary interla strife.

 

<< surely it would be a playground for the Muslims and Christians a like. >>

 

and to avoid it, we should not debate hindu-internal issues at global level, but work within to solve. while working to solve internal issues, we should stand united at the global stage against the anti-hindus. to do it all we need to say is:

 

"we are all vedic people of/from the vedic land -bharat- and we live by Gita only. Gita is our Book." This avoids unnecessary discussion about manu Smriti which never was used as a Vedic law book.

 

<< Look how the dhalits are being treated by the orthodox Hindus. >>

 

as far as i know, the word and issue "dailt" is created by politicians to unfarily defame hindus. if dalit measn shudra varna, then krishna says in gita that shudras are also an important part of the vedic society. shudras also have eaual right to realising god, and theyare free to develop qualities of any other varna. but no varna shoudl pretend to be another varna. the veduc culture have produced many saints from shudra varna, and all hindus respect them.

 

if any hindu is malpracticing varnasrama, then we need to help him give up malpractice. that is hindu-internal work/misison. also, just becaseu some hindus malpractice hinduism, it does not give right to anti-hindus to poke their nose in our internal affairs or convert hindus.

 

democracy and western "secularism" concept in bharat is used by anti-hindus as a free pass to intrude vedic socities and convert and or work against majority hindu interests.

this we need to stop.

[Sephiroth 0]

Remember that what is in the Kaaba is Shiva Lingam and the Muslims faith in that Lingam is much more stronger than many Hindus. Although they believe in one God and there is none other whch proves that the believe in the Supreme Brahman.

 

You are deluding yourself in thinking that Muslims have a form for their God. They do not.

 

According to Islam, Allah has no forms - which includeds Lingam. You (or Muslims for that matter) cannot say Allah has no form but Lingam is His form. That doesn't make sense.

 

Further more, they are kissing the Kaabah. And for years, had claims that the inside of Kaabah is empty and has nothing. So, you cannot make assumption that there is Lingam inside Kaabah without proper proof.

 

According to Muslims, Kaabah is House of God. Yes, the shape itself have similarities to a Lingam, and in many Shiva puranas, it is stated that Lord Shiva's jyoty (holy light) is within the Lingam itself. That is the only similarities I have seen.

[Guest guest]

'You can wake up a sleeping man,but you can NEVER wake up one who is pretending to be asleep'

 

Long before Buddhism branched out of the great vedic hindu tree, even ordinary people, let alone the wise ones, used this line in their every day life in that great land of vedic people. you see, it is not a quote, it is just an axiom.

 

' Muslims are not sleeping for you to awake them, they are pretending to be asleep.'

 

Are you sure they are not asleep? They do not seem to address the frustation of the rest of the world when they impose their religion in areas where they don't belong. How can you explain that?

[Guest guest]

The point is good and the indepth study on the fact of the popular Shiva worship in Arabia.

 

I think we should not use this to challenge the Islamic people. But we Hindus, should be the first other community for the islamic world to approach for solution and help. I don't think challenging muslims is any point.

 

It makes absolutely no difference for the current generation whose forefathers where converted in the following two manner

 

1. Provided latest clothes, women provided with lipstick, men provided with a good haircut, basic education for children, healthcare, and conversion to christianity for the whole family. First visit to the church for the whole family in a chauffer driven car.

 

2. brutal conversion to islam. forcible feeding of beef. women abused. Both men and women can't go back to their faith, but accept islam as their new religion.

 

Ask a muslim and christian kid regarding their satisfaction with their religion, and expect them to have only positive recollection. So you can perceive any which way you want, and you can also perceive that the islamic kids are foreced to like their children. All this doesn't make any difference.

 

Moral of the story for both christians and muslims is globalizing religion is wrong. There can never be a one size fits all in real life. Regardless of how the conversion is done, be it in a graceful way or otherwise.

 

Still not much is lost. They should disband their global religious bodies and allow each of their regions to have their own adaptation of christianity/islam. Muslims should thoroughly ban any negativism in their friday jumma, infact consider to ban jumma if it can't be turned positive.

 

The excess money left with the disbanded global bodies of these religions should be used for social service like the NGOs for absolutely no religious obligation.

 

Allowing local adaptation of their global regilions is the only way to stop this heat building between muslims and christians.

 

Christians and muslims who are too excited about the global size & headcount of their religion, should be kicked in their butts and rehabilitated emotionally for a normal and locally adapted living.

 

The teachings from Hinduism regarding the universal self is there for everyone to grab.

[barney 0]

Yes, you are right my friend. I was merely giving my point of view on how to counter the Muslims attack on Hinduism. There is this website that is trying to say Koran and Gita have more similarities. Which means to say that it is ok for Hindus to embrace Islam.

 

Similarities Between Islam And Hinduism - Part 9

By Dr. Zakir Naik

 

 

In this series of articles, we are analysing similarities and common grounds between two major religions of the world: Hinduism and Islam. In the previous article, we studied the various similarities between the concepts of worship in Islam and in Hinduism as mentioned in their respective scriptures. In this month’s article, we shall study, examine and highlight similarities between the concept of jihad in Islam and in Hinduism as mentioned in their respective scriptures. We shall also examine certain similarities in the teachings of the scriptures of Hinduism and Islam.

 

 

Concept of Jihad in Hinduism And in Islam

 

Jihad in Islam And in Hinduism

 

 

a. One of the greatest misconceptions about Islam, not only amongst the non-Muslims but even amongst the Muslims, is that concerning the concept of Jihad. Non-Muslims as well as Muslims think that any war fought by any Muslim for whatever purpose, be it good or bad, is Jihad.

‘Jihad’ is an Arabic word derived from ‘Jahada’, which means to strive or to struggle. For example. if a student strives to pass in the examination he is doing jihad.

 

 

In the Islamic context, ‘Jihad’ means to strive against one’s own evil inclination. It also means to strive to make the society better. It also includes the right to fight in self-defence or to fight in the battlefield against oppression and against aggression.

 

 

1. Jihad is not holy war

 

Not only non-Muslim scholars, but even some Muslim scholars mistranslate the word ‘Jihad’ as holy war. The Arabic word for ‘holy war’ is ‘harabum muqaddasah’ and this word is not to be found anywhere in the Qur’an nor in any hadith. The word ‘holy war’ was first used to describe the crusades of the Christians who killed thousands of people in the name of Christianity. Today, this term ‘holy war’ is used to falsely describe Jihad, which merely means ‘to strive’. In an Islamic context, Jihad means ‘to strive in the way of Allah for a righteous cause’. i.e. Jihad fi Sabilillah.

 

 

2. Only one of the several forms of Jihad is fighting

 

There are different types of Jihad i.e., striving. One of the types is striving and fighting in the battlefield against oppression and tyranny.

 

 

Many critics of Islam including Arun Shourie quote Surah Al-Tawbah chapter 9 verse 5

“... Fight and slay the Mushrik/Kafir (Hindu) wherever you find them ...”

 

 

(Al Qur’an 9:5)

 

 

If you read the Qur’an, this verse exists but it is quoted out of context by Arun Shourie.

The first few verses of Surah Tawbah before verse 5 speak about the peace treaty between the Muslims and Muskhriks (polytheists) of Makkah. This peace treaty was unilaterally broken by the Mushriks of Makkah. In verse no. 5 Allah (swt) gives them an ultimatum to put things straight in four months’ time, or else face a declaration of war. It is for the battlefield that Allah says “fight and slay the Mushriks (i.e. the enemies from Makkah) wherever you find them and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war”.

 

 

This verse is revealed and instructs the Muslims to fight in the battlefield and kill the enemy wherever you find them. But naturally, any army general to boost up the morale of the soldiers and to encourage them will say “Don’t get scared, fight and kill the enemies, wherever you find them in the battlefield. Arun Shourie in his book ‘The World of Fatwas’ after quoting Surah Tawbah chapter 9 verse 5 jumps to verse 7. Any logical person will realize that verse 6 has the reply to his allegation.

Surah Tawbah chapter 9 verse 6 says:

 

 

“If any amongst the Mushriks (i.e. the enemies) ask thee for asylum, grant it to him so that he may hear the word of Allah and then escort him to where he can be secure”.

 

(Al Qur’an 9:6)

 

Today the most merciful army general may tell his soldiers to let the enemy go, but Almighty Allah in the Qur’an says if the enemy wants peace do not just let them go but escort them to a place of security. Which army general in today’s day and age, or rather in the whole of recorded human history is ever known to have given such merciful instructions? Now will someone ask Mr. Arun Shourie why did he deliberately not quote verse 6?

 

 

3. Jihad (i.e. striving) in the Bhagavad Gita

 

All the major religions encourage their followers to strive in good works. It is mentioned in Bhagavad Gita

 

 

“Therefore strive for Yoga, O Arjuna, which is the art of all work.”

 

(Bhagavad Gita 2:50)

 

4. Fighting prescribed in the Bhagavad Gita too

 

 

a. All the major religions of the world have prescribed fighting, at sometime or the other, especially in self-defence or for fighting against oppression.

 

 

Mahabharata is an epic and sacred Scripture of the Hindus, which mainly deals with a fight between the cousins, the Pandavas and the Kauravas. In the battlefield Arjun prefers not to fight and be killed rather than having his conscience burdened with the killing of his relatives. At this moment, Krishna advises Arjun in the battlefield and this advice is contained in the Bhagvad Gita. There are several verses in the Bhagvad Gita where Krishna advises Arjun to fight and kill the enemies even though they are his relatives.

 

 

b. It is mentioned in

 

The Bhagvad Gita Chapter 1 verse 43-46

(43) O Krishna, maintainer of the people, I have heard by disciplic succession that those who destroy family traditions dwell always in hell”

 

(44) “Alas, how strange it is that we are preparing ourselves to commit great sinful acts, driven by the desire to enjoy royal happiness.”

 

(45) I would consider better for the sons of Dhritarashtra to kill me unarmed and unresisting rather than fight with them.

 

(46) “Arjuna, having thus spoken, cast aside his bow and arrow, and sat down on the chariot, his mind, overwhelmed with grief”.

 

 

c. Krishna further replies in

 

Bhagvad Gita Chapter 2 Verse 2, 3

 

 

2. “My dear Arjuna, how have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the progressive values of life. They lead not to higher planets but to infamy.

 

 

2. “O son of Partha, do not yield to this degrading impotence. It does not become you. Give up such petty weakness of heart and arise, O chastiser of the enemy!”

 

 

When Arjuna prefers to be killed unarmed and unresisting rather than fight and kill his cousins Kauravas, Krishna replies to Arjun by saying how this impure thought has come to you which prevents you from entering heaven. Give up this degrading Impotence and weakness of heart and arise, O defeater of enemy.

 

 

d. Krishna further says in

 

Bhagvad Gita Chapter 2 verse 31-33

 

31. “Considering your specific duty as a Kshatriya, you should know that there is no better engagement for you than fighting on religious principles, so there is no need for hesitation.”

 

 

32. “O Partha, happy are the Kshatriya to whom such fighting opportunities come unsought, opening for them the door of the heavenly planets”.

 

 

33. “If however, you do not fight this religious war, then you will certainly incur sin, for neglecting your duties, and thus lose your reputation as a fighter”.

 

 

e. There are hundreds of verses in the Bhagvad Gita alone, which encourages fighting and killing, many times more as compared to such verses in the Qur’an.

 

 

Imagine if someone were to say that the Bhagvad Gita encourages the killing of the family members to attain paradise, without quoting the context - such a deliberate attempt will be devilish. But within the context if I say that for truth and justice fighting against the evil is compulsory, even if it be against your relatives, it makes sense.

 

 

I wonder how come the critics of Islam, especially critics amongst the Hindus, point a finger at the Qur’an when it speaks about fighting and killing unjust enemies. The only possibility I can think of is that they themselves have not read their sacred scriptures such as the Bhagavad Gita, Mahabharata and the Vedas.

 

 

f. Critics of Islam including Hindu critics speak against the Qur’an and the Prophet (Pbuh) when they say that if you are killed while doing Jihad i.e. fighting for the truth, you are promised paradise.

Besides quoting Qur’anic verses they quote Sahih Bukhari Vol. 4, Book of Jihad Chapter no. 2 Hadith No. 46

 

 

“Allah guarantees that He will admit the Mujaahid in His cause to Paradise if he is killed, otherwise he will return him to his home safely with rewards and war booty”.

 

 

(Sahih Bukhari Vol. 4, Book of Jihad Chapter no. 2 Hadith No. 46)There are various similar verses in Bhagavad Gita guaranteeing a person paradise if he is killed while fighting. Take the example of Bhagavad Gita Chapter 2 verse 37:

 

 

“O son of Kunti, either you will be killed in the battlefield and attain the heavenly planets (paradise), or you will conquer and enjoy the earthly kingdom, therefore get up and fight with determination”.

(Bhagavad Gita 2:37)

 

 

g. Similarly Rigved Book No. 1 Hymn 132 Verse 2-6 as well as many other verses of Hindu Scriptures speak about fighting and killing.

 

 

5. Explain Jihad by quoting Scriptures of other Religions

 

Allah says in the Qur’an:

 

Say: “O people

Of the Book! Come

To common terms

As between us and you:

 

(Al Qur’an 3:64)

 

The best way to explain a misconception of Islam is to quote a similar message given in the Scripture of other religions. Whenever I have spoken to Hindus who criticize the concept of Jihad in Islam, the moment I quote similar passages from Mahabharata and Bhagavad Gita, and since they know the outline and the context of the fight in Mahabharata, they immediately agree that if the Qur’an too speaks about a fight between truth and falsehood then they have no objection but rather appreciate the guidance of the Qur’an.

 

 

(To be continued)

 

 

The author, Dr. Zakir Naik, is a well-known orator and scholar of Comparative Religion. He is the President of the Mumbai-based Islamic Research Foundation. He may be reached at: zakir@irf.net

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Is it possible for you to use simple words?

 

Long before Buddhism branched out of the great vedic hindu tree, even ordinary people, let alone the wise ones, used this line in their every day life in that great land of vedic people. you see, it is not a quote, it is just an axiom.

 

Qoute or Axiom - Whatever. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

Are you sure they are not asleep? They do not seem to address the frustation of the rest of the world when they impose their religion in areas where they don't belong. How can you explain that?

 

They are pretending to be asleep - pretending that the problem is not theirs as well, and expect others to solve and make it easy for them.

 

According to them :

 

When Jews fight for a piece of land in Middle-East, it is not because Jews were given that land by God, it is because Jews have hidden plot to throw down Islam.

 

When the US launchs war against Afghan and Iraq, it is not because they are reliating against 9-11 attack on THEIR soil, it is because US is after Muslim's oil.

 

When India support Kashmir Punjabs and crush the Separatists, it is not because Kashmir and India are One, it is because India is a fakir nation who is suppressing Muslims in Kashmir.

 

When Philiphines attack Abu Sayyaf Separatist group in South Philiphines, it is not because Philiphines are defending their teriroty against traitors, it is because Philiphines are Christian country and they are against Muslims.

 

 

You see ... for Muslims, they are not the cause of problem, they just victims of evil people of the world. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

That is why I said Muslims are pretending to be asleep. Which is why, no matter how hard you try to wake them, they will not be awaken.

[Guest guest]

Barney,

 

I know about Dr Naik. And I don't trust him, not for a second. He's simply taken verses from Hindu scriptures and equates them with Islam.

I read an article of his comparing Hindu and Islamic concepts and where the concepts were similar he talks of how this teaching of Hinduism is acceptable for muslims, but where they are different he talks about how unacceptable to Islam this is. The arrogance of the man to think that we should be concerned about what muslims think of our religion. Can't he accept difference of opinions or that we are different to muslims and arn't going to change our religion just to please them.

 

This Dr Naik is no different from other Islamic preachers, it's just that he's doing it in a different way that is less offensive.

[Sephiroth 0]

I read an article of his comparing Hindu and Islamic concepts and where the concepts were similar he talks of how this teaching of Hinduism is acceptable for muslims, but where they are different he talks about how unacceptable to Islam this is.

 

WHY must someone try and make similarities between Hindusm and Islam? What is the purpose?

 

I have seen many Muslims trying to similarize Hindusm with Muslim, stating this cannot be true, that cannot be true because it is not accordance to Islam. I could say - So what?

 

So far, 3 concept is not accordance to Islam :

 

1. God cannot incarnate as Human.

2. Reincarnation.

3. Karma and Rebirth.