The existence of nirguna Brahman

[Samkhya]

Order as such requires an explanation, because order is a unity brought in a diversity. Diversity by itself is many, and it stands in opposition to unity. Therefore, if some unity finds itself in diversity, this would mean that diversity has been acted upon from without by some principle.

 

Therefore: every order has a cause.

 

There are two kinds or order: material, in the world, and mental, in the mind (there is in the mind an order among the thoughts, feelings, perceptions, etc.). These two kinds require a cause.

 

But suppose you want the first ground of all. It cannot be matter, and it cannot be mind, therefore it is some mysterious being in which all qualities are melt into some homogeneous "soup", and which in consequence exhibits no order, but perfect unity.

 

But these thoughts bring a problem: how can diversity come from a perfect unity?

[Guest guest]

Primal Cause or Puroshottama is the state of Unity which is beyond time, space and causation. But when the Purushottama descends for his pleasure (also known as Krishna Lila), infinite forms are created, space and time and created, the chain of cause and effect is created. Hence, there is an appearence of diversity, but it isn't opposed to unity since its very source is the Unified transcendental state. Hence one can conclude that diversity, from from being an opposite, is just another aspect of Unity manifesting as various forms in the temporal world.

[Samkhya]

Sorry, but pleasure makes no sense for a being so great.

 

 

[Guest guest]

a so great being wich other reason has to act if not pleasure? not surely egoism?

 

god acts only for his absolutely free will and pleasure... not that some pleasure or duty made him slave of it

 

god is his pleasure, everything he does is pleasure

[Subham]

Hari OM:

 

"how can diversity come from a perfect unity? "

 

because He thought so, as stated in Upinashd, "Let Me be Many" - no other cause or reason could have (even existed) made it many.

 

However the many now (you and i) can again make it ONE, since due to beyond our capacity.

 

an example- even though the government represents the group of people (in a democracy) it is much more power ful than any individual or group of individual or even all individuals put together

[Guest guest]

"Purushottama descends for his pleasure (also known as Krishna Lila), "

 

 

Is he thrill seeking?

[Guest guest]

Hare KRishna!

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I offer my humble obeisance unto him!

 

'But these thoughts bring a problem: how can diversity come from a perfect unity?'

 

Before we go any further, i think it is important we define the word 'UNITY" becuase, to me, unity has 2 meanings.

 

meaning 1. Unity means UNIT (singular) or the number 1. In other words, advaita philosophy is based on this that all entities are brahman and hence all is one. So, the one we are talking here is the number 1 where all diverse entities MERGE into ONE BRAHMAN.

 

meanin 2. Unity also means, to me, to UNITE. In other words to bring together all diverse elements together and unite together with a common element. This to me sounds like Srila Prabhuapda's statement (iam paraphrasing) where all living entities are qualititavely one with GOD but quamtitively different. Stated differently, although we are individual entities in this cosmic platform posessing various characters, our eternal nature of Sat Cit and Ananda is the same Krishna Himself. So we can say that the common element(connecting factor) connecting individual different souls with God is the Sat Cit and Ananda character. Srila Prabhuapda says in the Sankya Philosophy book about Kapiladeva is that by performing Bhakti one individual living entity can realise his sat cit and Ananda and realise his self. In other words, when the individual entity (which is vareigated)realises his position of Sat Cit and Ananda he sees the connecting factor between himself and God Krishna.

 

So, one can achieve unity in diversity only if there is a common factor and what is the common factor, that is Sat Cit and Ananda. The process to realise the common factor is by the process of Bhakti to Krishna. This way we can unite the various different living enitities by realising the Sat Cit Ananda factor and unite with God qualitatively but yet maintain our eternal position as servants quantitatively.

 

PS: Please read the book by Srila Prabhupada on 'Teachings of Kapiladev- The Son of Devahuti'. This book is on Sankya philosophy and captures the unity in diversity aspect through Bhakti. In one place, the author says that the spiritual world Goloka is variegated and hence we are in bliss but the brahmajyoti is not varaigated and eventutally we will fall down if we get there in the first place.

 

Haribol!

 

anand

 

 

[Samkhya]

I should have said: "so a great being". Sorry for the grammar error.

[Samkhya]

My argument in the first post means that God cannot be the stuff out of which things come from. God must be beyond the universe. God cannot be the material cause of the world, but only his efficient cause.

 

I think it is what Dvaita teaches.

[Guest guest]

whats the diff. between material and efficient cause?