Kill the "EGO"

[maadhav 0]

 

"need also to tell how this could help solve our hindu dharma and rahstra problems, including the problem of islam.

any inputs?"

 

<< if we are spiritually well situated and strong we can solve the problems >>

 

per gita, yes. very general answer.

but could you also tell specifically how this could help solve our hindu dharma and rahstra problems, including the problem of islam? if not, then we need to think and focus on how to solve them. when there is 'pain in chest or stomach,' it is not proper to debate dwaita and advaita.

that is my point.

 

[maadhav 0]

barney,

 

you are not communicating.

i asked you a simple question,

and you pasted a large volume of text

as if you were looking or an excuse to do so and found one.

 

[Guest guest]

you simply are doing word jugglery

 

prabhu is not a name who implies that who's called prabhu is god.. prabhu means master and it is custom in many schools and disciplines to give that name to the practitioneers or teachers

 

(and "mister" did not give that name to himself but his disciples gave that title to him)

 

you are saying that i am blaspheming shiva saying that he's subordinate to lord vishnu.. i am saying that you and your masters of cheating (even sai baba... ah ah ah...) are real blasphemers because you say that personalities are maya

 

in this way you say that vishnu and shiva are maya and only inpersonal brahman is real

 

so check your beliefs before criticizing other's....

 

(sai baba?? ah ah ah..)

[Guest guest]

"Ramakrishna knew atma. You don't know atma. "

 

i am less than zero... ramakrsna is preaching things that he has not realized..

 

how he were still in his individuality and simultaneously preaching the annihilation of it in brahman?

use intelligence and discrimination...

 

[Guest guest]

<< if we are spiritually well situated and strong we can solve the problems >>

per gita, yes. very general answer.

but could you also tell specifically how this could help solve our hindu dharma and rahstra .

 

Gita shows that if you surrender to krsna, trough the bona fide spiritual master (the "tattva darshinah.." the one who sees krsna face to face) you have not to change your present acivities.. but these activities will turn in spiritual service and krsna will give the intelligence to perform them at the best

 

all the strenght of arjuna, who's the best ksatrya (warrior and politician) and the best devotee in his cathegory, is given by the connection with krsna.. the demonstration is that when krsna goes away he loses all strenght..

 

so politic is important, but also to defend dharma by the attempts of distruction made by mayavadis. They want to put away krsna, and without krsna there's no strenght

 

spiritual strenght, political strenght, economical strenght or wathever

 

[maadhav 0]

<< so politic is important, but also to defend dharma by the attempts of distruction made by mayavadis. They want to put away krsna, and without krsna there's no strenght >>

 

forget about them. they are not stopping you from sharing the solution. even if you do not want to share, just show how the HKs' screams to "mayavadis" is going to stop terrorism in bharat?

 

besides, the HKs enjoy more to get hell bent on mayavadis than on to the aggresors/invaders and advaiti muslims who have destroyed many vaishnav temples.

 

also note that there is no Hindu who says he is a mayavadi. there is no sampradaya by the name mayavad.

 

you are simply evading a fair answer and dragging forther into dvaita advaita debate.

 

i also know you will not get my point.

 

Hks have krishna, right?

so, what HKs are doing to solve terrorism problem?

 

bush is taking musharaf's help to fight terrorism.

did any HK tell bush that HK's can help better than musharaf? what bush need to do to get Hk's help?

also. bush will ask HKs how HKs think they can solve terrorism problem. so what is HKs' answer?

 

so far you are saying: "mayavadis are not allowing you to solve terrorism problem." mayavadis are not holding you from doing anything you want to do. also remember that the mayavadis will not come for you with gun or bomb. muslims will.

 

why dont you say, "we Hks are no hindu, and we dont care hindus' problems." that is standard Hk answer.

 

[Guest guest]

*********prabhu is not a name who implies that who's called prabhu is god.. prabhu means master and it is custom in many schools and disciplines to give that name to the practitioneers or teachers*************

 

 

Your english is such that it automatically leads to word jugglery. Only your abuses are understandable.

 

You fool. Bhagwan is also many times used as a name and also i consider my father and mother as bhagwan.

 

 

One who ornamentally claims himself to be upanishads and Vishnu is a rascal.

 

 

You use word jugglery. You distort scriptures.

 

[Guest guest]

"forget about them. "

there's no forgetting or remembering, and there's no emergency that can make us avoid spiritual discussion.

So be spiritually stronger and all problems will solve....

If you do not think that vedic spirituality can solve problems, why are you constantly speaking of hinduism?

if you think that reigion is not enough, do not pose as a religious man..

 

"also note that there is no Hindu who says he is a mayavadi."

this thread starts with "kill the ego" title to say that the ego is maya...

 

"so, what HKs are doing to solve terrorism problem?"

spreading bhagavad gita and harinama all over the word. In this way all society will be spiritualized and in a spiritualized society all social classes will do their duties at the best. So a dharmic government will be able to solve all terrorism problem. If you try to do something without giving spiritual advancement, you simply put some rascals at the place of other rascals, and terrorists at the place of other terrorists.

If you do not believe this, why are you calling yourself hindu? do not exploit religion for your own purposes

 

"why dont you say, "we Hks are no hindu, and we dont care hindus' problems."

no one is hindu, cristian, muslim.. everyone is spiritual soul...... and the second part of the answer is your creation..

You do not care for hindu's problems... you are simply using hinduism for your politic propaganda because you believe more in materialist politic than in sanathana dharma..

 

krsna in the "sarva dharma ..." shloka says "surrender.... than i will free from the reactions of your past actions..".. if we do not surrender we'll suffer and we'll be slaves. Change the rascal government, send away some asuras.. and nothing will change.. other rascals will go at the government, other asuras will populate bharat.. no difference

 

[Guest guest]

******use intelligence and discrimination...***********

 

 

Intelligence can be used when one does not abuse. You have nothing in you but scum.

 

No civil debate is possible with you. You are not fit for debate.

[Guest guest]

you simply have no serious answers.. to call one prabhu is not calling him "god".. so no one wants to be vishnu because he's called prabhu..

 

and i have already said that you have not right to defend god's personalities for the fact that you, being impersonalist, are against personality.. so what you want?

 

"Bhagwan is also many times used as a name"

 

but the correct term is "bagwan das".. only bagwan is bhagwan.. we can be only servants

 

"One who ornamentally claims himself to be upanishads and Vishnu is a rascal."

so why are you following rascals and spreading rascaldom saying that we can do some practices, meditation and became god instead of preaching the surrendering to god?

 

do not be a rascal.... stop following rascals

 

 

[Guest guest]

"You have nothing in you but scum"

 

and this scum is enough to put your noble self in chrisis

 

"No civil debate is possible with you. You are not fit for debate. "

 

so do not debate.. shut up and merge with silence, it will be a good starting point

 

 

[Guest guest]

This explanation of Brahman is part of Mayavadi, or impersonalist, philosophy. Those who are sincere in their search for truth will realize, by the mercy of Guru, that there is a truth beyond this. There is a person who is the source of the Brahma jyoti, or Brahmanic effulgence, and that is Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Brahma jyoti is one of his manifestations, and yes it is full of knowledge and eternal ("sac" and "cit"). But to reach "ananda" (full of bliss) you must go to the origin- Krishna- and realize your constitutional position as a servant of the servant of the servant of the Divine Couple, Radha-Krishna.

[Guest guest]

Your lack of intelligence shines.

 

*******to call one prabhu is not calling him "god".. so no one wants to be vishnu because he's called prabhu..*******

 

 

He calls himself "Prabhu Padam" and not simply "prabhu", as you try to distort. So, he means he is prabhu's feet, same as Vishnu is param's feet. Now which prabhu's feet he is? And not only "Prabhu Padam" but His highness also.

 

 

 

Under the garb of being a guest you start abusing anything that differs. Why be a coward? Why not use your registered name? Your true colors come out easily under the garb of guest name.

 

 

Om Namh Sivayya.

 

Atanu

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Kill the "EGO"

 

 

The title is apt and effective. It is working excellently.

[Guest guest]

8.3 Aksharam brahma paramam swabhaavo’dhyaatmamuchyate;

Bhootabhaavodbhavakaro visargah karmasamjnitah.

 

8.3. Brahman is the Imperishable, the Supreme; His essential nature is Adhyatman – the Self; the offering (to the gods) which causes existence and manifestation of beings and which also sustains them is called action.

 

[Guest guest]

Mayavad or other vad are theories. Lord is beyond theories. Beyond intellect.

 

 

Is not what you say, your faith? Faith is excellent. You must keep it. But honour the faiths of others also without becoming petty.

 

God has no difference in Him. He is all. He is everyone and and everyone is in Him. He loves the wise who know and realise this. It is immaterial and really unknowable as to what exactly He is.

 

 

Shiva is Vishnu’s soul and Visnu is Shiva’s body. Devotees like one or the other aspect. The wise know the Lord to be one. Sri is a form of Siva. No one has to say Sri Siva, since Siva is Sri. But for all other gods it is said Sri Visnu etc. The root is Siva -- Sanatanah Bhagwan Shambhu – who is male but really a female.

 

 

 

Siva is not two things. Uma-Mahesvara is one being. And Vishnu has Siva in His heart.

 

 

Devi Upanishad

 

1. All the gods waited upon the Goddess (and asked): ‘Great Goddess, who art Thou ?’

 

2. She replied: I am Brahman. From Me (has proceeded) the world comprising Prakriti and Purusha, the void and the Plenum. I am (all forms of) bliss and non-bliss. Knowledge and ignorance are Myself. Brahman and non-Brahman are to be known – says the scripture of the Atharvans.

 

 

-------------------

 

5. I uphold Soma, Tvastir, Pusan and Bhaga, The wide-stepping Vishnu, Brahma, Prajapati.

 

-------------------

 

 

8. Those gods said:

 

Salutation to the Goddess, the great Goddess ! To Siva, the auspicious, salutation, for ever more. To blessed Prakriti, salutation ! Ever to Her we bow.

 

---------------------------

 

11. To holy Siva, to Daksha’s daughter, To Aditi and Sarasvati, To Skanda’s Mother, Vishnu’s Power, To Night of death by Brahma lauded, We render obeisance.

 

12. Know we Great Lakshmi, Goddess of good Fortune; On all fulfilment do we meditate. May the Goddess inspire us !

 

---

 

19. Goddess who banishes distress Grants pleasure and deliverance alike, Infinite, victorious, pure, Siva, Refuge, the Giver of good.

 

------

 

 

 

Now read Bhagavata Gita

 

 

8.3 Aksharam brahma paramam swabhaavo’dhyaatmamuchyate;

Bhootabhaavodbhavakaro visargah karmasamjnitah.

 

8.3. Brahman is the Imperishable, the Supreme; His essential nature is Adhyatman – the Self; the offering (to the gods) which causes existence and manifestation of beings and which also sustains them is called action.

 

End of citation

 

There is no contradiction anywhere in our scriptures. All apparent contradictions dissolve in thin air, once one knows that all scriptures talk of That.

 

The apparent contradictions, strenghthen love and faith in diety and finally leading to knowledge of one God.

 

 

4.38 Na hi jnaanena sadrisham pavitram iha vidyate;

Tat swayam yogasamsiddhah kaalenaatmani vindati.

 

38. Verily there is no purifier in this world like knowledge. He who is perfected in Yoga finds it in the Self in time.

 

4.39 Shraddhaavaan labhate jnaanam tatparah samyatendriyah;

Jnaanam labdhvaa paraam shaantim achirenaadhigacchati.

 

4.39 The man who is full of faith, who is devoted to it, and who has subdued all the senses, obtains (this) knowledge; and, having obtained the knowledge, he goes at once to the supreme peace.

 

 

There is no difference between faith and knowledge. Immature argue over superiority of one over the other. Without surrender, bhakti and love one does not get knowledge.

 

 

4.33 Shreyaan dravyamayaadyajnaaj jnaanayajnah parantapa;

Sarvam karmaakhilam paartha jnaane parisamaapyate.

 

4.33. Superior is wisdom-sacrifice to sacrifice with objects, O Parantapa! All actions in their entirety, O Arjuna, culminate in knowledge!

 

 

 

 

4.38 Na hi jnaanena sadrisham pavitram iha vidyate;

Tat swayam yogasamsiddhah kaalenaatmani vindati.

 

38. Verily there is no purifier in this world like knowledge. He who is perfected in Yoga finds it in the Self in time.

 

 

 

Om namah Vasudevayya Namah

Om Namah Sivayya

[Guest guest]

again.. you have simply choosen a stupid way to criticize a real master showing your ignorance about language and tradition

 

the "mister" did not ordered to be called prabhupada, and that title, used in all vaishnava tradition, in no vaishnava scripture or preaching of any master means that the master is vishnu..

 

one who's not so stupid knows that vaishnavas consider a great disqualification of the guru if he claims to be god.. if the guru says "i am god" (like many of your favorites.. saibubu included) the result is that he's a dog,,

 

and again i do not understand why you want to defend vishnu's personality simultaneously wanting to annihilate him in brahman

 

(you are anonym too... with atanu i have not seen address and telephone number.. so do not bother and stop appreciating rascals only because there's a huge number of unfortunate people who does it)

[Guest guest]

Mayavad or other vad are theories. Lord is beyond theories. Beyond intellect.

--so better to be a follower of god "krsna vadi" than a follower of illusion "maya vadi"

 

But honour the faiths of others also without becoming petty.

--all your concepts about me are useless, my point is simple, one who is an individual but he preaches haw it is good to be merged with brahman existence is a cheater, because he preachs what he has not experienced. If i say "go in tibet.. tibet is very nice" i am a cheater, because i never been in tibet. Why it is so difficult? why be conditionated by the fame of some pseudo guru?

 

God has no difference in Him. He is all. He is everyone and and everyone is in Him

--being god ALL he has also differences and he's different from anyone... if he's the whole, he contains also the variety... So your vision of only "no difference" is partial.. and god is not partial

 

Shiva is Vishnu’s soul and Visnu is Shiva’s body

--god has not inside and outside, body and soul.. i have no problem with the debate vishnu vs shiva.. the problem is in who preachs that both vishnu and shiva are illusory forms created by nirguna brahman.

 

your citations from scriptures are very nice.. but partial.. you have choosen to put the accent only when god is stating that nothing is outside him, that nothing exist independently.

read also when, for example in the gita, god says "think to me..", "surrender to me.."... these instruction say that we do not lose our individuality and existence finding union with god and that god never lose his supremacy...

 

"Om namah Vasudevayya Namah

Om Namah Sivayya "

 

if you think that they are supreme and you are subrodinate these obeisances have a real meaning.. otherwise why bother? are you homaging yourself? what's the use?

 

[Guest guest]

7.18 Udaaraah sarva evaite jnaanee twaatmaiva me matam;

Aasthitah sa hi yuktaatmaa maamevaanuttamaam gatim.

 

7.18. Noble indeed are all these; but I deem the wise man as My very Self; for, steadfast in mind, he is established in Me alone as the supreme goal.

 

 

*********and again i do not understand why you want to defend vishnu's personality simultaneously wanting to annihilate him in Brahman*****************

 

You will never understand. But still I will try. Because, we believe shruti to be revelation of God. We believe every verse. Siva is Brahma that is why. Vishnu is Brahman that is why. Vishnu is not different from Siva that is why. This universe as it really exists (and not as we see it with our limited senses) is Akshara Brahman – where there is no creation and no dissolution that is why.

 

********"i am god" (like many of your favorites.. saibubu included) the result is that he's a dog,,**********

 

Mind your language. You are fouling you’re your soul alone for the whole world to see. No Guru has claimed to be God. Gurus have attempted to describe the bliss of being established in the state of Brahman. But every true Guru has also said that the state is really unexplainable, except by silence.

 

 

**********one who is an individual but he preaches haw it is good to be merged with brahman existence is a cheater*******************

 

If you yourself have never gone into Samadhi then why call names? In Lord Vishnu’s name say whether you have gone into Samadhi or not?

On the contrary, if you are not impatient then I suggest you read (though you read them before but your inner eyes have not opened).

 

BRIHADARANYAKA-UPANISHAD Part 1

 

FOURTH BRAHMANA.

 

-----

7. Now all this was then undeveloped. It became developed by form and name, so that one could say, 'He, called so and so, is such a one. ' Therefore at present also all this is developed by name and form, so that one can say,'He, called so and so, is such a one.'

---------

 

10. Verily in the beginning this was Brahman, that Brahman knew (its) Self only, saying, 'I am Brahman.' From it all this sprang. Thus, whatever Deva was awakened (so as to know Brahman), he indeed became that (Brahman); and the same with Rishis and men. The Rishi Vamadeva saw and understood it, singing, 'I was Manu (moon), I was the sun.'

 

 

Therefore now also he who thus knows that he is Brahman, becomes all this, and even the Devas cannot prevent it, for he himself is their Self.

 

Now if a man worships a deity other than the Self, thinking the deity is one and he another, he does not know. He is like a beast for the Devas. --------

 

BU IV, 4, 13-14

iii) 13. He who has found and awakened to the atman

which has entered the otherwise impenetrable body,

he is the maker of the universe, of all things.

The world is his! The world itself is he!

14. This we may know, indeed, while here on earth.

If we do not know it, great is the destruction.

But those who know it become immortal.

The others attain only distress.

 

 

End of citation

Please read Gita also

Gita

 

5.19 Ihaiva tairjitah sargo yeshaam saamye sthitam manah;

Nirdosham hi samam brahma tasmaad brahmani te sthitaah.

 

 

5.19. Even here (in this world) birth (everything) is overcome by those whose minds rest in equality; Brahman is spotless indeed and equal; therefore, they are established in Brahman.

Na prahrishyet priyam praapya nodwijet praapya chaapriyam;

Sthirabuddhir asammoodho brahmavid brahmani sthitah.

 

5.20. Resting in Brahman, with steady intellect, undeluded, the knower of Brahman neither rejoiceth on obtaining what is pleasant nor grieveth on obtaining what is unpleasant.

 

5.21Baahyasparsheshwasaktaatmaa vindatyaatmani yat sukham;

Sa brahma yoga yuktaatmaa sukham akshayam ashnute.

 

5.21. With the self unattached to the external contacts he discovers happiness in the Self; with the self engaged in the meditation of Brahman he attains to the endless happiness.

 

7.17 Teshaam jnaanee nityayukta eka bhaktirvishishyate;

Priyo hi jnaanino’tyarthamaham sa cha mama priyah.

 

7.17. Of them, the wise, ever steadfast and devoted to the One, excels (is the best); for, I am exceedingly dear to the wise and he is dear to Me.

 

7.18 Udaaraah sarva evaite jnaanee twaatmaiva me matam;

Aasthitah sa hi yuktaatmaa maamevaanuttamaam gatim.

 

7.18. Noble indeed are all these; but I deem the wise man as My very Self; for, steadfast in mind, he is established in Me alone as the supreme goal.

8.3 Aksharam brahma paramam swabhaavo’dhyaatmamuchyate;

Bhootabhaavodbhavakaro visargah karmasamjnitah.

 

 

8.3. Brahman is the Imperishable, the Supreme; His essential nature is Adhyatman – the Self; the offering (to the gods) which causes existence and manifestation of beings and which also sustains them is called action.

 

 

8.18 Avyaktaadvyaktayah sarvaah prabhavantyaharaagame;

Raatryaagame praleeyante tatraivaavyaktasamjnake.

 

8.18. From the unmanifested all the manifested (worlds) proceed at the coming of the “day”; at the coming of the “night” they dissolve verily into that alone which is called the unmanifested.

 

8.20 Parastasmaat tu bhaavo’nyo’vyakto’vyaktaatsanaatanah;

Yah sa sarveshu bhooteshu nashyatsu na vinashyati.

 

8.20. But verily there exists, higher than the unmanifested, another unmanifested Eternal who is not destroyed when all beings are destroyed.

 

 

8.21 Avyakto’kshara ityuktastamaahuh paramaam gatim;

Yam praapya na nivartante taddhaama paramam mama.

 

8.21. What is called the Unmanifested and the Imperishable, That they say is the highest goal (path). They who reach It do not return (to this cycle of births and deaths). That is My highest abode (place or state).

 

End of citation

 

Your distress is great. You seem to be ill. Your posts show innumerable spelling and other mistakes. These mistakes do not happen when one is cool. As Bhisma said to Pandavas “I am sad that despite Hari being with you, you all are despondent. You are distressed. You cannot argue without using terms like Dogs, rascals etc. Please go to a doctor, if it is needed.

Your mind is far from the state that Lord speaks below:

5.19. Even here (in this world) birth (everything) is overcome by those whose minds rest in equality; Brahman is spotless indeed and equal; therefore, they are established in Brahman.

 

So, when Ramakrishna describes the bliss of this spot less equality, he is true to the scriptures. Lord has already described this state of bliss in many verses.

 

 

I can never match you in the war of dirty words. I prefer the love path. Take a deep breath, calm down and communicate like humans do. I genuinely hope that you will use less foul language since it harms no other person but you.

 

 

Please have patience and read BU again.

BU IV, 4, 13-14

iii) 13. He who has found and awakened to the atman

which has entered the otherwise impenetrable body,

he is the maker of the universe, of all things.

The world is his! The world itself is he!

14. This we may know, indeed, while here on earth.

If we do not know it, great is the destruction.

But those who know it become immortal.

The others attain only distress.

 

 

I may be wrong. Upanishads may be wrong. We all may be wrong. You alone may be correct. But still it does not befit you – a Vaishnava, the foul language.

 

 

And if you still persist in calling names then do not enter our threads.

 

 

7.18 Udaaraah sarva evaite jnaanee twaatmaiva me matam;

Aasthitah sa hi yuktaatmaa maamevaanuttamaam gatim.

 

7.18. Noble indeed are all these; but I deem the wise man as My very Self; for, steadfast in mind, he is established in Me alone as the supreme goal.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Mandukya Upanishad

 

Nantah-prajnam, na bahih prajnam, no'bhayatah- prajnam, na prajnanaghanam, na prajnam, na-aprajnam; adrishtam-avyavaharayam-agrahyam-alakshanam-acintyam avyapadesyam-ekatmapratyayasaram, prapancopasarnam, santam, sivam-advaitam, caturtham manyante, sa atma sa vijneyah.

 

 

He is not knowable by perception, turned inward or out ward,nor by both combined. He is neither that which is known, nor that which is not known nor is he the sum of all that might be known he can not be seen, grasped, bargained with. He is undefinable, unthinkable, indescribable. The only proof of his existence is union with him. The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second. This is the fourth condition of the self the most worthy of all.

 

[Guest guest]

Apt title. Some egos will be washed away.

[Guest guest]

"You will never understand. But still I will try. Because, we believe shruti to be revelation of God. We believe every verse."

 

 

so believe also the scripture's verses where they say that god is (also) a satcitananda individual..

 

do not believe only what makes you illude that one day you'll be god

 

that's love..

[maadhav 0]

here dvaita-advaita debate is in full swinng,

and i am saying it is not time for it.

 

"You will never understand. But still I will try. Because, we believe shruti to be revelation of God. We believe every verse."

 

<< so believe also the scripture's verses where they say that god is (also) a satcitananda individual..>>

 

guest, why you want to impose your will upon him to belive it? what damage is there to you if he does not choose to believe it?

 

<< do not believe only what makes you illude that one day you'll be god >>

 

guest, you (and i also) think it is wise to do so, but does he not have freedom to choose what he wants to believe? if you could convice him what damage his belief will do to you, then, may be, he may agree with you.

 

<< that's love.. >>

 

no that is not love. love gives freedom.

if you love him, give him your best advice, but also give him freedom to accept or not accept it.

 

after telling all the ways to realize god,

krishna said to arjun:

 

yathechchhasi tathA kuru.

 

that is love. it gave freedom.

guest devotee, could you do so?

 

prove that HKs love advaitis.

 

my eqquest to both:

focus on the invaded ideology

that is out there to wipe out both of you

and your ideologies.

 

[Guest guest]

here dvaita-advaita debate is in full swinng,

and i am saying it is not time for it.

..so ask to close the forum.. a forum is a debate's place

 

why you want to impose your will upon him to belive it?

...we are simply debating

 

no that is not love. love gives freedom.

...so give us the freedom to debate... if you think that this is not time to do it, be the first to stop and give us the example

[maadhav 0]

ok. you have chosen to not get my point.

 

carry on.