wow

[Guest guest]

Hello all. I am a sixteen year old girl from Iowa. I was doing research on Hinduism for my major religions class when i stumbled across this website. I would just like to say that it fascinated me. I don't know if i've just been around too many arrogant people, but I was reading your posts, and it amazes me how much passion and love you have for your gods. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't undestand a lot about Hinduism, some of it confuses me a lot, but after reading about 20 pages of questions and replies, I was blown away. A lot of you that frequently come to this website posted the most insightful, level-headed, and faith-filled replies i have ever read. I am a Christian, and I can only hope to rely on God with the passion and dedication that you guys have with your religion. I have never disrespected anyone's religion, but now, I have a new-found respect for all Hindus, and I would just like to thank you for inspiring me. Thanks again.

 

Amy

[barney 0]

"Each soul is a circle whose circumference is nowhere (limitless) but whose centre is in some body. Death is but a change of centre. God is a circle whose circumference is nowhere, and whose centre is everywhere. When we get out of the limited centre of the body, we shall realize God, our true Self".

— Swami Vivekananda (1863-1902)

[Guest guest]

Just thought I can add something to your knowledge on Hinduism.Hinduism isnt a faith. It isnt a religion too,since it did not give any name to itself.Everyone in the world is considered to worship the same god through different methods.It is a dharma which means a way of living.

 

We consider you and all your fellow citizens as fellow brothers and sisters."vasudeva kudumbakam"-whole universe is a family is our philosophy.

 

May such interactions between different cultures grow positively.The god whom you worship as jesus and whom we worship as krishna will save us all.God bless you.

 

 

[Guest guest]

listen jesus and krishna are not same. kindly ask your advaitic masters for answer.

 

 

Always there to bust mayavada bubble

[Guest guest]

in this circumstance he has given a good answer.. the difference between jesus and the supreme personality of godhead comes out if we get a little deeper

 

now it is more essential to state that god is one and he is worshipped everywhere

[Guest guest]

"in this circumstance he has given a good answer"

 

What does this line means ?

[Guest guest]

Guest said "listen jesus and krishna are not same. kindly ask your advaitic masters for answer.Always there to bust mayavada bubble"

 

How do you know this?

 

 

[Guest guest]

read bible and veda. simple.

 

between i am mayavada buster and not master.

 

u love mayavada, where were you when i busted barney's claim in the thread on two tier brahman which was started by me.

 

time to rip off of advaita aka atheism.

[Guest guest]

{"listen jesus and krishna are not same. kindly ask your advaitic masters for answer."}

 

Wow. Usually the Mayavada Buster specialises in talking alot of nonsense on these boards, but it looks like the buster has actually said something sensible after all.

 

It's silly when you get some Hindus going around saying all the religious personalities of all religions no matter how different their teaching are...are really the same god in disguise. It defeats logic and is rather disrespectful.

 

 

 

 

[barney 0]

You have not busted me but boosted me. You have not discovered yourself so how could you know about God. You have yet to discover the true qualities of Atman and I feel sorry for you. May be in your next birth you would get the chance to discover yourself and than you will realize who we are in truth. Take care Self Buster.

 

 

[maadhav 0]

Amy,

 

since you feel good about hinduism,

i would think that you would visit this forum often.

please do, and welcome.

 

once a young and atheist military officer and i were discussing religions. we talked for about two hours. then he said, "you know, more i know about the esatern religons more i am impressed by them. wow! i did not know these before." i said, "the credit goes to my guru. i am an ordinary hindu."

 

if you want to get the whole essence of hinduism quickly, please read gita. it is only 700 verses.

 

[barney 0]

It may be disrespectful to you and your kind but not so to the majority of Hindus. Religion is a particular system of faith in the Supreme Being. Be it Hinduism, Juadism, Buddhism, Christianity,Islam or Sikhism, they are all a particular system of worshiping God in their own way and in their own language. Call HIM in whatever name you want it does not matter coz HE is nameless and yet with names, HE is formless and yet with form, HE is nowhere and yet HE is everywhere. It is the selfish guardians of religions who had manipulated the system for their own selfish gain upon the death of their messangers.

 

The God who created you did also created the Chinese, Mongolians, Russians, Arabs, Jews, Japanese and all other races of this world. There cannot be a Chinese God appearing with long flowing mustache and wearing odd looking hat or a Jewish God who appears as a burning bush or a Hindu God blue in color with rotating chakra with a strange looking wheapon. These are description of God in their own imagination. Some have even accepted divine persons of spritual intellectuality as the incarnation of God but it does not take away their faith in the only creator the Supreme Brahman as all religion believes who is present in all living entity. So, that is why Hinduism stands a an exceptional religion in that sense because it believes that God is one but manifestations are many. And there is nothing wrong in believing so. No one religin is greater than the other as all system of religion are leading to the path of God in their own way. Do not let you heart think for you but instead let you brain do the thinking. If you cannot reason out than you have yet to become a whole human.

 

 

[Guest guest]

{It may be disrespectful to you and your kind but not so to the majority of Hindus.}

 

First of all swami Barney you don't speak for the majority of Hindus and you represent nobody but yourself. You have demonstrated that on this board. What is dispespectful is that you can'r respect other religions/sects to have the freedom to say they are different to yours. For example the Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists have a strong Hindu infulence are were born out of Hinduism but now since they have developed some concrete beliefs that distinguishes them from hinduism and want to be seen as different, people like you won't let them and insult them by forcing them into the same category as yourself. Let's give them the freedom to say they are different.

 

{It is the selfish guardians of religions who had manipulated the system for their own selfish gain upon the death of their messangers.}

 

No, Barney this is the mistake that people like you make all the time. Why can't you accept that there are differences of religions? Why can't you see the diversity in all religions and sects? The systems have not been manipulated, they were different from the beginning. That's why they have different beliefs! I agree God is one and one only, but the religions and beliefs are different. Learn to accept differences and stop trying to absorb. For example, the koran doesn't say Allah is really Krishna, nor does the bible say that of jesus. We all know the God is one, the the scriptures themselves have laid down different information.

 

{The God who created you did also created the Chinese, Mongolians, Russians, Arabs, Jews, Japanese and all other races of this world.}

 

I know that and I know your argument, but to put it simply, you're missing the point.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

There are a lot of mistakes when people try and apply the 'there is one God, many religions' argument. Now personally, I can only speak the same words as the acharya who I follow, and that is Prabhupada.

 

1) Allah is referring to God. Krishna refers to God. Allah is not a name of God, it is an idea of God. Since Allah means the highest, it can only refer to God. Prabhupada always said there is no harm in chanting Allah in order to realise some impersonal form of Supreme. Full realisation comes when one chants the name of the form of God. Krishna refers to a visible form, just like Rama, Narsmha, Vishnu and Narayana.

 

2) The reason Jesus should not be described as God is because he never says he was God. Simple as that.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

yeah yeah true qualities of atman. Quote scriptures as if have asked you before. All of those who belong to your party can't quote upanisads and then you talk about finding true qualities of atman.

 

May i ask you how come qualityless atman has qualities which you have discovered ?

 

Looks like you haven't read Shankara's work adequately.

 

I invited you for debate on Sruti but you ran away saying oh you don't know and blah blah.....

 

as far as empiric evidence goes we know from past advaitins haven't shied away from repulsing criticism from vaishnavas but here we have a proclaimed advaitin who cannot follow in footsteps of his masters.

 

All that you say simply remain hogwash until you CAN SUPPORT FROM SCRIPTURES WHATEVER YOU CLAIM.

 

ATMAN IS KNOWN FROM SASTRA ALONE AND NOT FROM MENTAL GYMNASTICS OF SELF PROCLAIMED GODS LIKE YOU.

 

Qualities of Qualtyless lol lol lol.

[Guest guest]

Guest wrote:

"Wow. Usually the Mayavada Buster specialises in talking alot of nonsense on these boards, but it looks like the buster has actually said something sensible after all."

 

Yeah yeah did you know that post on two tier brahman was my first here. and then i thought of an appropriate name so that my identity remains known whenever i make a post. so i came up with this one. anyways instead of your ranting kindly find any nonsense in the two tier brahman thread. If you cannot make points with actual reasoning and corresponding scriptural references you should stay away from vedantic discussions.

 

 

[Guest guest]

the above two post were by me.

 

the very point i have been emphasizing again and again is that one needs to substantiate their claims from scriptural verses otherwise they are nothing but mental gymnastics of a monkey mind. If SWAMI BARNEYANANDA & Co. can do this, it will be awesome to debate.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!I offer my humble obeisnaces unto Him!

 

Hi Amy, I live in Iowa also. Iam an Indian studying and working in Iowa.I still go to school to ISU and work in Des Moines. If you dont mind, can I know where you live in Iowa.

 

I am aspiring to serve my spiritual master Srila Prabhupada! and Lord Krishna!That is my goal.Personally, I believe everybody should serve God in their level and slowly elevate themselves in spiritual life.

 

What do you do and what do u do in the road of being a righteous Christian?Just Curious!

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(ATMAN IS KNOWN FROM SASTRA ALONE)

 

atman is to be realized, no amount of book knowledge will realize this for us.

So much ahankar and calling of names will certainy not help any one realize what we all seek.

I have no desire to enter the devait adevaita discussion, since both are a valid path. Lord Krishna clearly states this in chapter 12 of Gita

Arjuna said: Those ever-steadfast devotees (or Bhaktas) who thus worship You (as the manifest or personal God), and those who worship the eternal unmanifest (the formless or impersonal) Brahman (by developing Jnana), which of these has the best knowledge of yoga? (12.01)

The Supreme Lord said: Those ever steadfast devotees who worship with supreme faith by fixing their mind on Me as personal God, I consider them to be the best yogis. (See also 6.47) (12.02)

But those who worship the imperishable, the undefinable, the unmanifest, the omnipresent, the unthinkable, the unchanging, the immovable, and the eternal Brahman; (12.03)

Restraining all the senses, even minded under all circumstances, engaged in the welfare of all creatures, they also attain Me. (12.04)

Self-realization is more difficult for those who fix their mind on the formless Brahman, because the comprehension of the unmanifest Brahman by the average embodied human being is very difficult. (12.05)

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

----For example the Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists have a strong Hindu infulence are were born out of Hinduism but now since they have developed some concrete beliefs that distinguishes them from hinduism and want to be seen as different, people like you won't let them and insult them by forcing them into the same category as yourself. Let's give them the freedom to say they are different.

 

Also give us the freedom to say that we are similiar.Let them beleive anything.Why should I change my belief?My belief doesnt depend upon their belief,it depends upon my acharya.

 

--Why can't you accept that there are differences of religions? Why can't you see the diversity in all religions and sects?

Why cant you accept that there are similarities along with differences in religions?Why cant you see unity in diversity in religions?

 

----I agree God is one and one only, but the religions and beliefs are different.

If god is one and religions are different then which religion is the right one?If you claim only one religion is the right one you are fanatic.If you claim all are right one then you are an advaithi.

 

It seems to me that you are missing the point.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna

Ganesh Prasad,

 

Sastrayonitvat I.1.3

"Brahman is known through scriptures alone."

 

This is famous aphorism of Vedanta Sutra.

 

Book knowledge is not direct path to mukti but it subserves the purpose.

 

Heard of four things called:

 

Sravanna - hearing.

Manana - reflection.

Nidhidhyasan - meditation.

Darsana - Realization.

 

this comes from famous Brh. Up text. First you hear the knowledge about brahman. book knowledge is necessary because without revelation you cannot know the transcendental atman. One cannot speculate.

 

then this bookish knowledge needs to be fixed beyond vacillations and doubt of any kind. Which means one has to logically reflect on what one had learnt.

 

when intellect is freed from error and doubt, one can start meditation. chandogya says that nature of this meditation should be uninterrupted. This meditation leads to darsana or realization of Supreme.

 

Bhagavatam is very clear:

 

"SB 1.2.12: The seriously inquisitive student or sage, well equipped with knowledge and detachment, realizes that Absolute Truth by rendering devotional service in terms of what he has heard from the Vedānta-śruti."

 

One should first understand from sastra about tattva, hitam and purusartham and then one can actually start the journey.

 

Gita says

Chapter 15, Verse 19.

Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and He therefore engages himself in full devotional service, O son of Bharata.

 

Mundaka Svetasvatra upanisad confirm that all bondage is terminated when Supreme is seen/realized.

 

As far as the gita verses you quoted it doesn't says that one can meditate on advaitins brahman and still get liberation.

 

Attributeless susbstance cannot exist. Please understand this. Advaitins idea of absolute is not found in vedas and can neither be supported by it.

 

Both paths are not valid since there is no second path which calls for meditation of advaitic brahman.

 

Reason being the entity to be meditated on in 12.03 is jivaatman in its pristine state free from all sorts of prakritic bondage. All the adjectives which are attributed to that entity indicates that it isn't anything similar to advaitic conception of nirguna brahman.

 

Such entity cannot exist. Without knowing attributes how can you fix coordinates to begin meditation ? forget realization of such entity.

 

those who make such claims are #1 frauds. No entity exists without attributes. Therefore all their claims about realizing such entity and meditating on it are false.

 

Between there is nothing called Personal and Impersonal God. All this two tier concept of brahman is not supported by any upanisads brahma sutra and gita.

 

If the entity to be meditated be same - brahman in any form then Arjuna's question that who is a better yogi becomes irrelevant. An aspirant who is trying to enjoy communion with same entity cannot be graded in such way as Sri Krishna replies in answer that those who meditate upon me as a personal god are better than those who meditate on impersonal absolute.

 

Between Arjuna's question is not Oh krishna, who is better one who meditates on you as a persona or who meditates on you as impersonal.

 

It is who thus worship You (personal God), and those who worship the eternal unmanifest .... which of these has the best knowledge of yoga?

 

Clearly Arjuna is asking Krishna about meditation on two different entities.

 

 

[Chant_Hare_Krsna 0]

 

 

Even Advaita's can be attracted to Him.

 

He is your best friend eternally.

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Hare Krishna Prabhu

 

 

Re

(Sastrayonitvat I.1.3

"Brahman is known through scriptures alone."

 

This is famous aphorism of Vedanta Sutra.

 

Book knowledge is not direct path to mukti but it subserves the purpose.

 

Heard of four things called:

 

Sravanna - hearing.

Manana - reflection.

Nidhidhyasan - meditation.

Darsana - Realization.)

 

 

I agree in genral what you write above

 

Atatho Braham jignshu, then our journey in to knowing the truth begin, but having read and contemplated and then you make it a point to bust others belief then you have missed the point, the point of actually realizing the self, and I am not asking you not to discriminate.

 

What faith one has is born of desires and experience in this long and painful journey the soul is enduring in pursuit of happiness.

 

You may argue from point of your realization having read a particular school of thought, and others may follow the path they desire from other school of thought, let us not forget acharya adi shankara who rescused the Vedas.

Bg.9.15 Others, who are engaged in the cultivation of knowledge, worship the Supreme Lord as the one without a second, diverse in many, and in the universal form.

 

What book knowledge did Gajendra had except the faith?

 

This is all what I will write in this matter, good luck in your Maya busting but that will not lead to self realization or will it?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna Ganesh

 

Right now i don't have much time to reply but let me tell you one thing -

 

nidhidhyasana itself is dependent upon perfection of sravana and manana. Consequently only those people will get darsana who had understood the import of scriptures perfectly. Meditation requires that your knowledge should be fixed beyond doubt. Real knowledge is knowledge of 3 tattvas iswara, cit and acit and their mutual relationship. And it also includes hitam or means and knowledge of purusartha or goal.

 

For example jivaatman and paramatman are two distinct entities. Those who understand this will never meditate to achieve realization[darsana] of absoulte identity between brahman and jivaatman. Sruti teaches difference between the two. And not identity. So its worthless to talk about realizing absolute identity.

[barney 0]

Quote " I and my father are one", which clearly points to only one meaning that all human birth are the manifestation of the one God we call by thousands of names. If man does not realize that than it is bad karma. When you realize that you have borrowed this body to fulfill your destiny and that ulimately you'll leave this body at the end of your duration here, only than you will see clearly who you are and all ego, selfishness, anger, jealousy, hatred and lust will be wiped out from heart and your true quality, which is Godliness will prevail. So, start thinking about it and may be you might hit the right note.