Advaita

[ggohil]

In respect to Advaita Philosophy, I presume that at one point we all must have been “The God”, if so..……

 

1. Why did we stop being “The God”?

 

2.If I am “The God”, but am on earth due to desires.

Does this mean “The God” is falliable?

 

[Guest guest]

being a God. It is just a superimposition, according to Sankara.

[Guest guest]

how can god be subjected of some superimposition?

 

super means "higher"... who's higher than god to superimpose anything on Him?

 

maya more powerful than god?

 

naaahh!!

[Guest guest]

example given by chinmaya. WHen you see the post, there is no ghost. But the moment you *see* the ghost in the post, the post vanishes-for you ONLY. The post doesn't actually vanish, it only vanishes for you. Relate it to god and maya, and then you'll see that nothing is 'more' or 'less' powerful. These terms don't apply to this.

[barney]

God is the father and we are his children, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Bahais, Buddhist, Taoist and the tribal people of the amozon forest and all hill tribes of the world are his children. So, as children of God we surely must have his qualities but, some of us do not possess such qualities due to our past karma. The day one realized that he is a spark of the ever glowing flame or Jothi as Swami Ramalingam said yes, we are Gods but unrealized and due to our ignorance we are doomed in this world untill the time of liberation. About 6.5 billion humans and another few billion creatures including insects are all his and his alone. It is the transmigration of the soul from one form of life into another based on our karma and it is known as the cycle of life. On completion of the cycle and upon realization we will be united with the Supreme Brahman. The wise ones would consider themselves as God but would not reveal to the world for reasons that they will be branded mad men.

 

Many such souls were living upon earth and are still living and waiting for their return to Brahman. Fro him we came and to him we will go. All these segregation of the human race in class, race, religiona and country are trials and work of the Supreme Brahman. We are made to play the game of life and none can escape if your karma is bad. Hundred and one denominations with various method of understanding the supreme Brahman with thousands of name is all part of the play we are in. Those who play it right gets promoted and eventually reach his abode but those who play it wrong would have to saty back for a few hundred or milion life span before reaching him. Remember this cycle would go on for another 427,000 years before it ends and the next cycle starts.

[Guest guest]

WHen you see the post, there is no ghost. But the moment you *see* the ghost in the post, the post vanishes-for you ONLY

 

if there's some ghost, god sees it and the god cannot vanish or appear without having from god the power to do it

 

so, if i am god, i am ever conscious of the existence and the activities of the ghost

 

the term more powerful relates very well because god cannot be subjected to maya... in the absolute there's variety, and variety means also difference and different levels

[Guest guest]

God is the father and we are his children

 

right... and being god eternal also his relationships are eternal.. there will not be a moment when our relationship with god will be lost for being one with him.

[Guest guest]

“In respect to Advaita Philosophy, I presume that at one point we all must have been “The God”, if so..……”

 

 

 

 

 

At one point of time God was alone. Are you sure that GGOHIL was there? HE is the efficient and material cause of all that came forth. He entered everything that He created. So, how can anything not be God?

 

 

Param Atma encased Himself in seven material sheaths for sport. The most external material sheath is GGOHIL as a body. GGOHIL thinks that he is GGOHIL the body. He has yet to dissolve all 7 sheaths before He actually feels the fun.

 

 

When GGOHIL thinks of I, he thinks of the body and tells himself “I am this”. He cannot see beneath the sheaths and know that “I” is the super soul -- controller of GGOHIL (the body - mind).

 

When you find the controller, you will realize WHO IS GOD AND WHO IS GGOHIL.

 

 

 

1. Why did we stop being “The God”?

 

 

Do you assume that “we” are outside of God? That is Dvaita and not Advaita. Do not mix Dvaita and Advaita understandings.

 

Your question makes me wonder: Do dresses think themselves to be so powerful that they even imagine that it is their will to stop or start being God?

 

Suppose, you are wearing a tuxedo coat. Now the dress thinks: “Today I will be myself -- a tuxedo coat and tomorrow I will be GGOHIL”.

 

 

So, do not ask: Why (and when) did we stop being “The God”? Ask: when the covering power of the dress will be overcome and the super soul will emerge nude.

 

 

 

2. If I am “The God”, but am on earth due to desires.

Does this mean “The God” is falliable?”

 

 

“I am God” is wrong. The correct statement (perhaps) is: The Lord is the one “I”. So, God is not fallible but HE deliberately sings songs for pleasure. Such a song GGOHIL is. Or HE takes up dresses for sport. Such a dress GGOHIL is.

 

 

[Guest guest]

At one point of time God was alone

--this is christianism

 

Are you sure that GGOHIL was there?

--of course, being us part of god we was eternally there

 

GGOHIL thinks that he is GGOHIL the body. He has yet to dissolve all 7 sheaths before He actually feels the fun.

--if you admit that he will feel the fun, you are admitting also that he will be a personality

 

When you find the controller, you will realize WHO IS GOD AND WHO IS GGOHIL

--correct.. two personalities.. in this way they will relationate eternally. God can relationate

 

Do you assume that “we” are outside of God?

--we are inside god.. he's the whole, we are the part

 

So, do not ask: Why (and when) did we stop being “The God”? Ask: when the covering power of the dress will be overcome and the super soul will emerge nude.

--not everyone accepts that the variety of existence is only in the matter and the spirit is so weak and incomplete that only ONE exists

 

The Lord is the one “I”

--he's not so weak to not have the possibility to emanate other complete personalities

 

God is not fallible but HE deliberately sings songs for pleasure

--who sings, knows that he sings. I do not know that this maya is my song, but i am illuded and i suffer, if i were the one who sings for pleasure i were conscious of the song

 

Such a dress GGOHIL is.

--existence is not illusory, it is identification who's illusory

[ggohil]

“…. He entered everything that He created. So, how can anything not be God?”

 

“Param Atma encased Himself in seven material sheaths for sport. The most external material sheath is GGOHIL as a body. GGOHIL thinks that he is GGOHIL the body…..”.

 

Hence, my question. How can God, Param Atam, be influenced in believing he to be GGohil, by deliberately being encased in seven material sheaths.

 

 

"When GGOHIL thinks of I, he thinks of the body and tells himself “I am this”. He cannot see beneath the sheaths and know that “I” is the super soul -- controller of GGOHIL (the body - mind)."

 

”When you find the controller, you will realize WHO IS GOD AND WHO IS GGOHIL.”

 

I know I am not the body. But still have serious questions on understanding that I am the God. I am the supreme who created everything, of my own free will, but now I am influenced by seven sheaths.

 

 

 

”Do you assume that “we” are outside of God? That is Dvaita and not Advaita. Do not mix Dvaita and Advaita understandings.”

 

Dvaita I understand.

 

 

 

“I am God” is wrong. The correct statement (perhaps) is: The Lord is the one “I”.

 

I do not think I understand this……: )

 

So, God is not fallible but HE deliberately sings songs for pleasure. Such a song GGOHIL is.

 

So are saying I am his song and not HE, the God.

 

“Or HE takes up dresses for sport. Such a dress GGOHIL is.”

 

Makes me wonder why such a perfect, complete and ever happy God would need to take up a sport that creates songs which are at best bewildered and lost.

[ggohil]

Incidentally, doesn’t Gita 2-12 say

 

“Never was there a time when I did not exist , nor you, nor all these king; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.”

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

example given by chinmaya. WHen you see the post, there is no ghost. But the moment you *see* the ghost in the post, the post vanishes-for you ONLY. The post doesn't actually vanish, it only vanishes for you. Relate it to god and maya, and then you'll see that nothing is 'more' or 'less' powerful.

 

 

God (Brahman), being omniscient and full of knowledge can never be fooled or illusioned.

 

There is no possibility of faulty perception on the part of the Absolute Truth.

[Guest guest]

"Incidentally, doesn’t Gita 2-12 say

 

“Never was there a time when I did not exist , nor you, nor all these king; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” "

 

 

 

Incidentally never was there a time when you were a dress or an ego. You always are. Is Gita talking about the dress or the I sense or is it talking about the real you?

 

Why don't you silently enquire and search the "you" Lord talks about -- of course with permission of your Guru, if you have one.

 

Five minutes of search for "I" daily may do wonder.

[Guest guest]

Is Gita talking about the dress or the I sense or is it talking about the real you?

 

the real him... who is eternal like krsna and you

[Guest guest]

I said:

 

“…. He entered everything that He created. So, how can anything not be God?”

 

“Param Atma encased Himself in seven material sheaths for sport. The most external material sheath is GGOHIL as a body. GGOHIL thinks that he is GGOHIL the body…..”.

 

You said:

 

Hence, my question. How can God, Param Atam, be influenced in believing he to be GGohil, by deliberately being encased in seven material sheaths.

 

 

My reply:

 

Where is the statement above that param atman is influenced in believing HIM to be GGohil.

 

Param Atam knows. It is the mind working through sense organs that temporarily cannot see the self effulgent Param Atman within and without.

 

 

 

You said:

 

“I know I am not the body. But still have serious questions on understanding that I am the God. I am the supreme who created everything, of my own free will, but now I am influenced by seven sheaths.”

 

I say:

 

Why do you have to burden the thinking mind’s i. Thinking “i” is always attached to body-mind I sense – the aham.

 

It is not the thinking mind’s I that is God. It’s permanence and reality are negligible compared to the eternal pure I, which is un attached to objects.

 

 

Search for that “I” beneath the sheaths. The thinking mind (small i) did not create Lord. Lord created the thinking mind for some limited purpose and like you cannot measure thickness of a hair with a meter scale, you cannot contemplate on such subtle thing as I with the limited mind attached to objects.

 

So, the I that you are at present (GGOHIL) is not the supreme and did not create a single thing.

 

I said:

 

“I am God” is wrong. The correct statement (perhaps) is: The Lord is the one “I”.

 

You said:

I do not think I understand this……: )

 

My answer:

 

When we say “I”, we invariably say it with faculty of mind and senses. “i” here refer to “I am this”. What is "this" in this statement if not the body (and vaguely aham). Claim by such I to be God is delusion and pompous if not cheating.

 

Whereas in deep sleep and Turiya states, one does not see “i” and the universe. Only one I exists in Turiya state: wherein the feeling is "I am" and not "I am this".

 

 

 

 

I said:

So, God is not fallible but HE deliberately sings songs for pleasure. Such a song GGOHIL is.

 

You said:

So are saying I am his song and not HE, the God.

 

 

My reply:

 

Yes. At present with our rampant ego bound I sense, we are HIS songs. But unfortunately many such songs think that the song is singing itself or that the song itself is the Lord. Both views result from delusion.

 

 

You say:

 

Makes me wonder why such a perfect, complete and ever happy God would need to take up a sport that creates songs which are at best bewildered and lost.

 

 

I say:

 

Yes I also wonder. Why such a perfect Lord has such evil subjects eternally (eternal parts as you would like to say). Such evil parts eternally kill, rape, plunder, steal, rob, lie and what not. And such evil dirty amshas pollute the pure universe with excreta, urine and fart.

 

Why?

 

Whereas, I know that He must be singing for enjoyment.

 

 

[ggohil]

"Param Atam knows. It is the mind working through sense organs that temporarily cannot see the self effulgent Param Atman within and without."

 

How did Param Atam get into this state?

 

"Whereas, I know that He must be singing for enjoyment."

If he sings for enjoyment to crate GGohil, then he cannot be complete.

 

I still fail to see how can Param Atman which you say is God is fooled in thinking it has ego.

 

[Guest guest]

Maybe we came here to help some who 'fell down', or maybe we wanted to know what physical embodiment felt like. We had to lower our vibration to come down to this planet and as such, forgot where we came from. As we raise our vibration through meditation etc, we start to remember where came from.

 

Celestine.

[Guest guest]

god does not need to lower any vibration to come in this planet.. his reign is everywhere and everywhere is his planet. He's the master of the sense (hrishikesh) and he understand every reality without any special adjustement of his perception

 

and he cannot forget.. to forget is an effect of the illusion, god cannot be subjected to illusion (otherwise we should understand that the illusion is god)

 

meditation is to be conscious of something, to put attention on something. God is eternally conscious (CIT) of himself and he is everything

[Guest guest]

 

 

"I still fail to see how can Param Atman which you say is God is fooled in thinking it has ego. "

 

 

Who told you that Paramatma is fooled?

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This earth vibrates at a lower frequency than the heavens. This physical body that we live in vibrates in a lower frequency. That is why human beings are stuck here. A Great Being that vibrates at such a high frequency as Krishna cannot possibly totally embody a physical body on this earth. It is only an aspect of Krishna that took embodiment to teach man. If the total essenceo Krishna was standing next to someone right now, that person would be fried to a crisp immediately.

 

By the way, why do you suppose there are incarnations of Vishnu and why is Krishna an incarnation of Vishnu. Why does Vishnu need to be called different names at different times and why does he have to be born as a baby. As a master of all things, he could just appear out of thin air and then disappear again.

 

If God is everything, then I am God.

[Guest guest]

“At one point of time God was alone

--this is christianism”

 

 

No read Vedanta.

 

 

BRIHADARANYAKA-UPANISHAD Part 1

SECOND BRAHMANA.

 

1. In the beginning there was nothing (to be perceived) here whatsoever. By Death indeed all this was concealed,-by hunger; for death is hunger. Death (the first being) thought, 'Let me have a body.' Then he moved about, worshipping. From him thus worshipping water was produced. And he said: 'Verily, there appeared to me, while I worshipped (arkate), water (ka).' This is why water is called ar-ka. Surely there is water (or pleasure) for him who thus knows the reason why water is called arka.

 

2. Verily water is arka. And what was there as the froth of the water, that was hardened, and became the earth. On that earth he (Death) rested, and from him, thus resting and heated, Agni (Virag) proceeded, full of light.

 

3. That being divided itself threefold, Aditya (the sun) as the third, and vayu (the air) as the third. That spirit became threefold. The head was the Eastern quarter, and the arms this and that quarter (i. e. the N. E. and S. E., on the left and right sides). Then the tail was the Western quarter, and the two legs this and that quarter (i.e. the N. W. and S. W.) The sides were the Southern and Northern quarters, the back heaven, the belly the sky, the dust the earth. Thus he (Mrityu, as arka) stands firm in the water, and he who knows this stands firm wherever he goes.

 

 

4. He desired, 'Let a second body be born of me,' and he (Death or Hunger) embraced Speech in his mind. Then the seed became the year. Before that time there was no year. Speech bore him so long as a year, and after that time sent him forth. Then when he was born, he (Death) opened his mouth, as if to swallow him. He cried Bhan! and that became speech.

 

 

5. He thought, 'If I kill him, 1 shall have but little food.' He therefore brought forth by that speech and by that body (the year) all whatsoever exists, the Rik, the Yagus, the saman, the metres, the sacrifices, men, and animals.

And whatever he (Death) brought forth, that he resolved to eat (ad). Verily because he eats everything, therefore is Aditi (Death) called Aditi. He who thus knows why Aditi is called Aditi, becomes an eater of everything, and everything becomes his food.

 

 

 

My comment:

 

The guest is ignorant but he does not agree to ignorance on being confronted with shruti evidence. Like robot he either says: Wrong translation or simply ignores the evidence and like parrot repeats the same old statements which have been refuted many times.

 

He confidently makes a statement without research or learning properly from Guru.

 

 

 

These people will never accept that their parrot like ramblings contradict shruti. And Gita never contradicts shruti.

 

 

 

”Are you sure that GGOHIL was there?

--of course, being us part of god we was eternally there”

 

 

 

No, gghohil was not there. Some other form and name was there. The nameless and formless one was eternally there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

”When you find the controller, you will realize WHO IS GOD AND WHO IS GGOHIL

--correct.. two personalities.. in this way they will relationate eternally. God can relationate”

 

 

“So, do not ask: Why (and when) did we stop being “The God”? Ask: when the covering power of the dress will be overcome and the super soul will emerge nude.

--not everyone accepts that the variety of existence is only in the matter and the spirit is so weak and incomplete that only ONE exists”

 

“The Lord is the one “I”

--he's not so weak to not have the possibility to emanate other complete personalities”

 

 

Same parrot statements again. For un Self Realized there is no oneness. Does this need repetition again and again?

And who said that Lord cannot manifest complete personalities? You yourself is one complete naïve personality.

 

 

 

Now read Isa Upanishad:.

 

 

Isa Upanishad

 

16. O Pusan, the one seer, O controller, O sun, offspring of Prajapati, bring out your radiant rays and focus your radiance so that I may be able to see the auspicious form of yours. Who so ever person is there beyond, that also I am.

 

 

Please read Rig Veda to learn who Pusan is.

 

 

 

Please read again

 

BRIHADARANYAKA-UPANISHAD Part 1

FOURTH BRAHMANA.

 

1. In the beginning this was Self alone, in the shape of a person (purusha). He looking round saw nothing but his Self. He first said, 'This is I;' therefore he became I by name. Therefore even now, if a man is asked, he first says, 'This is I,' and then pronounces the other name which he may have. And because before (purva) all this, he (the Self) burnt down (ush) all evils, therefore he was a person (pur-usha). Verily he who knows this, burns down every one who tries to be before him.

 

2. He feared, and therefore any one who is lonely fears. He thought, 'As there is nothing but myself, why should I fear?' Thence his fear passed away. For what should he have feared? Verily fear arises from a second only.

 

-----

7. Now all this was then undeveloped. It became developed by form and name, so that one could say, 'He, called so and so, is such a one. ' Therefore at present also all this is developed by name and form, so that one can say,'He, called so and so, is such a one.'

He (Brahman or the Self) entered thither, to the very tips of the finger-nails, as a razor might be fitted in a razor-case, or as fire in a fire-place.

 

-------=

 

10. Verily in the beginning this was Brahman, that Brahman knew (its) Self only, saying, 'I am Brahman.' From it all this sprang. Thus, whatever Deva was awakened (so as to know Brahman), he indeed became that (Brahman); and the same with Rishis and men. The Rishivamadeva saw and understood it, singing,'I was Manu (moon), I was the sun.' Therefore now also he who thus knows that he is Brahman, becomes all this, and even the Devas cannot prevent it, for he himself is their Self.

Now if a man worships another deity, thinking the deity is one and he another, he does not know. He is like a beast for the Devas. For verily, as many beasts nourish a man, thus does every man nourish the Devas. If only one beast is taken away, it is not pleasant; how much more when many are taken! Therefore it is not pleasant to the Devas that men should know this.

 

 

 

Repeated for the less keen

 

10. Verily in the beginning this was Brahman, that Brahman knew (its) Self only, saying, 'I am Brahman.' From it all this sprang. Thus, whatever Deva was awakened (so as to know Brahman), he indeed became that (Brahman); and the same with Rishis and men. The Rishivamadeva saw and understood it, singing,'I was Manu (moon), I was the sun.' Therefore now also he who thus knows that he is Brahman, becomes all this, and even the Devas cannot prevent it, for he himself is their Self.

Now if a man worships another deity, thinking the deity is one and he another, he does not know. He is like a beast for the Devas. For verily, as many beasts nourish a man, thus does every man nourish the Devas. If only one beast is taken away, it is not pleasant; how much more when many are taken! Therefore it is not pleasant to the Devas that men should know this.

 

 

My note:

 

But less keen will remain so as ordained.

 

 

Their Guru knew their status and accordingly taught them a path and these less keen have taken the path as the truth and have become parrots.

 

 

Read again

 

------Therefore he who thus knows that he is Brahman, becomes all this, and even the Devas cannot prevent it, for he himself is their Self.

 

 

Guest, understand this and you will be liberated.

 

A Jiva who realizes that He is Brahman becomes all this even the Devas cannot prevent it, for he himself is their Self.

 

 

Such a jiva is the Self of the Devas.

 

 

Again repeated for memorization:

 

------Now if a man worships another deity, thinking the deity is one and he another, he does not know. He is like a beast for the Devas.

 

 

Guest, with your belief you are a beast to the Devas and you are trying to make other so. Only Pasupati can liberate you.

 

 

 

Please consult a true vedantist and find out that Gita would not be Gita if it happened to contradict Shruti.

 

 

 

Atanu

[ggohil]

"If God is everything, then I am God"

 

I guess then I am The God, the creator.

[ggohil]

Who told you that Paramatma is fooled?

Then who is fooled?

[Guest guest]

 

"If God is everything, then I am God"

 

I guess then I am The God, the creator.

 

 

 

Yes God is everything. Is it wrong?

 

But God created some intelligent beings (humans) and non-intelligent inert beings (matter).

 

In some humans the inert material component is so predominating that they may well be categorized with stones etc.

 

 

[Guest guest]

This earth vibrates at a lower frequency than the heavens. This physical body that we live in vibrates in a lower frequency. That is why human beings are stuck here.

••we are limited, bounded by karma.. you are right

 

A Great Being that vibrates at such a high frequency as Krishna cannot possibly totally embody a physical body on this earth.

••god is unlimited.. there's no "vibrational" circumstance that can stop us, Every vibration is vibrated by him.

Krsna has no earthly body, krsna has spiritual body. And spiritual body is not subjected to earthly vibrational laws

 

It is only an aspect of Krishna that took embodiment to teach man

••no.. krsna is not embodied in a material body. Krsna is an eternal and transcendental spiritual form, the supreme personality, the higher state of existence. So, who speaks is not an embidiment , he's krsna himself with his spiritual and transcendental form. Forms exist also in the transcendence

 

If the total essenceo Krishna was standing next to someone right now, that person would be fried to a crisp immediately.

••krsna is in complete control of that "crisping".. if he wants he gives to anyone the possibility to see him and communicate with him, He can do everything, he's god

 

By the way, why do you suppose there are incarnations of Vishnu and why is Krishna an incarnation of Vishnu.

•••i know that vishnu and krsna are supreme aspects of the same transcendental personality, there's no incarnation in human sense, they do not need human flesh to manifestate them selves

 

Why does Vishnu need to be called different names at different times and why does he have to be born as a baby

••there's no need for god.. otherwise the need would be god. If in our world there's something, for example the birth, we necessarily have the birth also in the spiritual realm because spirit cannot be less than metter. So, being krsna/vishnu not conditioned by the need to take birth through the "human procedure", if he does it, he does it to enjoy lilas with his intimate devotees. Lord lives in sat(eternity)cit(consciousness)ananda(bliss).. and the bliss is the source and the result of infinite spiritual relationships and activities

 

As a master of all things, he could just appear out of thin air and then disappear again.

••and he does it if he wants.. also from a pillar as nrsmhadeva does in his famous lila. But, being omnipotent and free, he can also appear as a little transcendental child in gokula.. where's the problem?

 

If God is everything, then I am God.

••there's the whole and the part.. you are a part and the source of existence is god. If you where the whole, you were not bounded by maya and forgetful of you being conscious to be god. God does not forget, you forget