Howard Murphet

[barney 0]

Excerpts from the book "Man of Miracles"

Howard Murphet, well-known and respected author from Australia, has investigated the miracles of Sathya Sai Baba for decades. What follows are excepts from his book, "Man of Miracles", where he tells some of his fascinating and incredible experiences (pp. 81-87).

 

 

 

One afternoon soon after our arrival we all went for a drive and, leaving the cars, strolled about on a rocky knoll of the hills. Baba several times picked up a piece of broken rock, played with it awhile, and then threw it away. Finally, just as we were returning, he kept a piece about the size of a man's closed fist and carried it back to Circuit House.

Arriving there, he took us into one of the suites and sat on the carpet while we sat in a semi-circle around him. He began to talk conversationally on everyday topics, occasionally throwing the piece of rock a couple of feet in the air and letting it fall on the floor. Presently he tossed it over to me, asking:

"Can you eat that?"

I examined the rock closely. It was hard granite, streaky and rather lightish in colour. I admitted its inedibility and bowled it back to him — he was not more than two yards away from me.

He took the stone and, still chatting casually, threw it in the air again, while a dozen pairs of eyes watched expectantly. I felt that something strange was going to happen and never let the stone out of my sight. Now as it lay on the carpet I could see a slight change in its appearance. Although of exactly the same size and shape, and still streaky, it was a little lighter in colour than before.

Swami rolled it back to me across the carpet. "Can you eat it now?" he asked. To my amazement and joy it was no longer rock but sugar candy. Baba broke it into pieces, giving us each a portion to eat. It was sweet and delicious as candy should be. Is this an illusion, I wondered, are we all hypnotised? So I put a piece in my pocket. I still have it and it's still sugar candy

I thought of the popular song about 'The Big Rock Candy Mountains' and jokingly said to him, "I wish you would turn the whole mountain into candy or chocolate." Baba seemed to take this seriously or maybe as a kind of challenge. Anyway he replied solemnly that it would not be right to interfere too much with Nature's housekeeping.

Then it occurred to me that my joke was rather superficial. If will power, or whatever power it is, can transmute a small piece of igneous rock into an entirely different substance, why not a large piece? And why not into any substance?

 

 

One sparkling morning I was walking with Swami and the two teenage youths in the gardens of Circuit House. Baba was wearing an ochre-coloured robe which fell like a smooth cylinder from shoulders to ground. As Iris had ironed some of his robes a couple of days earlier, I knew for certain that they contained neither pockets nor places where anything could be concealed. His sleeves were straight and loose, without cuffs. He carried nothing in his hands.

One of the young men was returning to Bombay next day and wanted to take photos of Swami, so the latter posed for several pictures. Occasionally, as we strolled and talked, he paused to pick a berry or a bud from one of the shrubs. This he would examine with the concentration and thoughtfulness of a botanist: then after a while he would throw it away as if it were not quite suitable to some purpose he had in mind. Finally he picked a small bud from a bush, examined it, seemed satisfied, and handed it to me, saying: "Keep that."

Soon afterwards we went back up the steps to the front entrance. Baba did not go to his own suite but walked straight into ours. He sat on an armchair while the young men, my wife and I gathered around him on the carpet.

Swami asked for the bud that he had given me. I handed it to him, and he held it in his fingers for a while, discussing it.

"What flower is it?" he asked.

We confessed our ignorance. He suggested that it might be a button rose and we agreed.

Then looking at me he asked: "What do you want it to become?"

I was at a loss to know what to say, so I replied: "Anything you like, Swami."

He held it in the palm of his right hand, closed his fist, and blew into it. Then he asked me to stretch out my hand. I gasped, and my wife gave a squeal of delight as from the hand that held the flower bud there fell into my open palm a glittering diamond of brilliant cut. In size it matched the bud, which had completely vanished.

 

 

We were on the floor around Baba expecting a morning discourse, perhaps one of those wonderful stories from Indian mythology which lead the mind to the deeper truths of life. However, before talking, he showed us a green leaf and wrote on it with his fingernail. Then he handed the leaf to me, but I could make nothing of the writing, which he said was a mantram in Sanskrit.

Next he asked for a book, and one of the ladies who occupied the suite passed him her Telegu grammar. Placing the leaf between the pages, he shut the book and tapped its cover several times. Now he opened it and took out the leaf. The writing was still on it, but instead of being green and fresh as it had been a moment before it was brown and so dry that it easily crumbled into dust.

Baba tossed the book on the carpet nearby and, after talking for a while, left the room. Well, I thought, on the face of it this miracle would not stand up to the sceptic; the brown leaf could have been somehow "planted" in the book earlier. So I picked up the volume and searched its pages for the missing green leaf, but could find nothing.

Why am I doubting, I asked myself, when I have seen him do so many things equally incredible and inexplicable? Sai Baba had somehow blasted this leaf, as another One who stood above Nature had blasted a tree two thousand years ago. It was as if, for the leaf, many months of summer had been telescoped into that one magical moment when Baba tapped the book.

 

 

At Horsley Hills Sai Baba produced a particularly striking example of such telekinesis. One evening a party of us were sitting on the carpet in his suite; Ramanatha Reddy, the doctor, the young men, Iris and myself were there. Swami asked me the year of my birth, and when I told him, he said that he would get for me from America a coin minted there in that same year.

He began to circle his down-turned hand in the air in front of us, making perhaps half a dozen small circles, saying the while: "It's coming now ..... coming ..... here it is!"

Then he closed his hand and held it before me, smiling as if enjoying my eager expectancy. When the coin dropped from his hand to mine, I noted first that it was heavy and golden. On closer examination I found, to my delight, that it was a genuine milled American ten-dollar coin, with the year of my birth stamped beneath a profile head of the Statue of Liberty.

"Born the same year as you," Swami smiled.

What would the skeptics say about this, l wondered. Would they suggest that Baba carried around with him a stock of coins so that he would have one to match my year of birth. Such old American coins, now long out of circulation, would not be easy for him to obtain in India through normal channels.

I have no doubt whatever that this was one of Baba's many genuine apports. While he circled his hand before us, some agency under his will had dematerialised this gold coin at some place somewhere, carried it at space-annihilating velocity, and re-materialised it in Sai Baba's hand.

From where did it come? Who knows? Baba would never say; perhaps from some old hoard, hidden, lost, forgotten long ago, and now belonging to no one alive.

 

 

Although I had come to know through first-hand experience that Sai Baba was certainly not an impostor and that his miracles were genuine, I could not help thinking that the use of sand as a medium for production was something which gave fuel to the sceptic. Admittedly several of his followers had told me that in fact everything he had produced from sand he had also produced at other times without it — that is, from the air.

Even so, an objective psychical researcher, hearing the stories of the sand wonders, is bound to raise the queries: are the objects previously "planted" in the sand? Or does Baba by some lightning sleight-of-hand slip them in just before he digs them out? In fact, for anyone who had neither seen the miracles for themselves nor felt the spiritually elevating presence of Sai Baba, I suspected that "sand productions" must leave a bigger question mark in the mind than "other productions".

But this was because such events had not hitherto been fully and thoroughly reported to me by a careful observer. At a later period I had my own close observations of the sand miracles confirmed by several of India's leading scientists — but that is jumping ahead of the story.

The first point I want to make clear about my Horsley Hills experience of Baba's "sand productions" is that on the journey from Circuit House to the place of the miracles I sat in the front of the car with Sai Baba and Raja Reddy, who was driving. Baba carried nothing in his hands, and he was wearing his usual robe; none of the objects later produced could have been concealed on his person.

A few miles from Circuit House the car, and several other vehicles following it, stopped by the roadside. We all got out and went to a patch of sand some fifty yards away which had been seen from the road on an earlier journey.

Baba asked the young men in the party to make him a sand platform, so they scraped and pushed the sand with their hands to build a flat stage about a foot high and four feet square. Baba sat cross-legged in the middle of this and the party clustered in a semi-circle around him. I was in the front row of the spectators, right at the edge of the sand platform. The thought passed through my mind that if any object had previously been buried here, near where Baba was sittting, he would have to dig down more than a foot through the newly-piled sand to reach it.

He began as usual with a spiritual discourse which, apparently, aIways has the effect of harmonising and purifying the psychic atmoshere around. Maybe this is a necessary preparation for the miracles. Then with his forefinger he made a drawing on the surface of the sand just in front of him, and asked me what it was. From where I sat it looked rather like a human figure, and I told him so.

Laughing, and with the expression of a happy child playing on a beach, he scooped up the sand to form a little mound above the drawing, about six inches high. Still with an air of happy expectation he put his fingers lightly into the top of the mound, perhaps an inch down, and drew out, head first, a silvery shining figure, like the drawing he had made. It was a statue of the god Vishnu, about four inches in height. He held it up for everyone to see, then put it to one side, smoothed out the mound before him to make a flat surface again, and began once more to discuss spiritual topics.

Soon he made another drawing in the sand on the same spot as before. Again he scooped sand over it, making a mound — a wider flat-topped one this time. Again with a happy chuckle he felt with his finger-tips into the top of the mound and scraped a little sand away; less than an inch down was a photograph. He pulled it out, shook the yellow grains away, and held it up for us to see. It was a glossy black-and-white print, about ten inches by eight.

He passed it around for some of us to look at closely, and later I examined it at leasure back at our quarters. It was a photograph of the Hindu gods and avatars, standing in two rows to form a forward-pointing arrowhead, with Lord Krishna in the foreground at the tip. Heads of Satya Sai Baba and Shirdi Baba could be seen as small inserts on the body of Krishna. This print, I felt, was not produced in any earthly studio. Baba later gave it to Mr. and Mrs. T. A. Ramanatha Reddy, our hosts. It stood with the unearthed statue of Vishnu for some days on a side table in the dining room at Circuit House.

Other objects produced from the sand in the same manner went to various people in the audience. There were, for example, a jappamala (rosary) for Mr. Niak, the Collector of Kolar District, and a pendant which was given to a revenue officer.

But there was one supreme production from that sand patch of which we all had a share. Baba did his outline sketch, which I could see from where I sat was a little container of some kind. Then, in the usual way, he scraped the top sand with his open hands to make a tiny hill above the drawing. Pausing a moment with a delighted smile, he felt into the crown of the hill and took out a silver-coloured container. This was of circular shape with a neck and a screw-top. At a guess its spherical bowl would be perhaps two and a half inches in diameter.

Sai Baba unscrewed the lid and a wonderful perfume pervaded the air. Putting the container to one side, he went through the same process again of drawing and mound-building. This time the product was a golden spoon like a small teaspoon. With this he stirred the contents of the bowl and, standing up, began to give some to each of his spectators.

Like the others I opened my mouth while he poured a spoonful onto my tongue. The word that came into my mind was "ambrosial"; it seemed nothing less than the food of the gods; it suggested a mixture of the essences of the most heavenly fruits, the divine archetypes of the loveliest fruits of earth. The taste is quite indescribable; it has to be experienced.

The devotees call this glorious nectar amrita, which has much the same meaning as ambrosia — the food of the immortals. Several devotees, including some westerners like Nirmalananda and Gabriela, had told me about seeing it produced on rare occasions from the sand, and all tried in vain to describe its exquisite taste and aroma. Others, including Dr. Sitaramiah, had witnessed Baba produce amrita by squeezing his own hand, and in other ways. But no one at this time had seen manifestation of amrita for about three years, and I was very grateful that Baba had given my wife and myself this personal experience of a thrilling, deeply-moving miracle. It was witnessed on this occasion at Horsley Hills by about forty-five men and more than a dozen women. Baba went around giving some to all, except to the women who were staying at Circuit House. There was enough amrita for everyone to have a spoonful each and the bowl was still not empty.

Baba handed it to me to carry back to our quarters. I felt very honoured and held it carefully in my hand as we drove up the sharp bends to the crest of the hill. Sand still clung to the designs carved on the silvery metal, which I was told was the sacred alloy panchaloha. On the balcony of Circuit House I handed the container back to Baba and he straight away walked around giving some to each of the ladies who had not yet tasted the "food of the gods".

I sometimes wondered afterwards what had happened to the little bowl but about a year later a Bombay.devotee told me he had visited Baba at Horsley Hills a day or two after the event and been presented with the panchaloha container. It still held some amrita which he and his family enjoyed, and the miracle bowl now occupies a place of honour in his home.

So here are the answers to the two points raised by my inner psychical researcher. First, the objects could not have been previously hidden in the sand patch ready for Baba to take out because they came from the top of a mound, made before our eyes, on the top of a foot-thick sand stage, also built while we watched. Secondly, even if Baba could have carried the objects to the sand patch that night without my seeing them, an utter impossibility, he could not by the most expert legerdemain have slipped such articles as a glittering idol, a large photograph, a bulky jappamala and a shining bowl of nectar into the sand under our noses without our being aware of the fact. If he could, he is superior to the most expert conjuror and should be making fame and fortune on the stage as an entertainer.

Quite apart from the miraculous production of such objects there is the strange mystery of the amrita itself — its ambrosial out-of-this-world quality, its power (shown on various occasions) to increase in quantity to meet the needs of whatever numbers happen to be present. What, I wondered, was its actual significance? I determined to ask Sai Baba about this at the first opportunity.

 

 

Some Conclusions

(from Man of Miracles by Howard Murphet, pp. 183-189)

 

 

The wealth of miraculous things that my own eyes have witnessed assure my acceptance of things of similar nature about which I have heard. This acceptance is aided by my knowledge of the integrity, intelligence and high moral character of the many witnesses. But, though to many eminent community leaders, and to thousands of ordinary folk like myself, the Sai miracles are indisputable facts, the eye witnesses represent only a small fraction of mankind. So what about the millions beyond the orbit of those who have been fortunate enough to see for themselves? What about the masses of materialists and atheists, conditioned by the superficial philosophy of modern technological progress? Is there the slightest likelihood that they may credit the truth of the incredible events described in these pages?

The human mind by its nature regards anything outside a commonly accepted framework of rationality as impossible and rejects it. A materialisation phenomenon, for example, is so foreign to everyday experience that, even after watching it happen, it is not easy for one to believe that it really took place. One seems to have been in some odd way out of space and time. When one is back in the normal dimensions of space and time, the reality of a miracle seems to vanish. It goes as the reality of a dream goes on waking.

"Did the miracle really happen?" the thinking mind asks. But the glittering jewel, which came from nowhere, lies in the hand; the taste of the candy, which a moment ago was granite or paper, is undeniably on the tongue. The effects are apparent; the comprehensible causes are missing, and they are not to be found by our rationalistic thinking.

There is little doubt that all continents and all peoples will have the chance to see Sai Baba in the years ahead. So here is something never known before in the world's history. A God-man, a living worker of miracles, will be able through the use of modern global communications to travel the world, and make his message known to all people during his lifetime.

Of old, this could not happen, and tidings of such amazing events reached the mass of mankind either through verbal reports or by accounts written long after the events took place. Now the sceptic, the doubting Thomas, who cannot believe in either the greater or the lesser miracles can prove their reality for himself. If keen enough, he can visit Prasanti Nilayam to witness them; otherwise he can wait until Sai Baba comes nearer to his part of the globe.

The miracles of Christ and Krishna must be taken on trust or through faith; those of Sai Baba you can see for yourself.

 

[Guest guest]

and it is, indeed, very hard not to believe all these amazing tales recounted by Murphet. However, one can't dismiss the idea that Murphet is in league with Sai Baba, as are the people whom he talked to.

 

Sai Baba is a very powerful figure, it would behoove anyone to join forces with him rather than oppose him.

 

He may have powers, but if he did, why did the newspapers and such CATCH him in one of his "tricks"?

 

Why is he being blamed for sexually molesting people?

 

The idea that he has done all this as a child, that he has performed miracles as a child, is also hard not to believe, but I read somewhere that Sai Baba's birthdate is not what he says it is and is actually a few years before or after his supposed birthdate. Also, it's possible the village that he was born in and his family are supporting him in this charade. Admittedly it's a pretty big conspiracy, but then again, bad things are starting to come out about him, so maybe it was a good conspiracy, of which the foundations are starting to crumble.

[barney 0]

In reply to:

 

__________

and it is, indeed, very hard not to believe all these amazing tales recounted by Murphet. However, one can't dismiss the idea that Murphet is in league with Sai Baba, as are the people whom he talked to.

__________

 

Why must you believe Krishna's miracles when you did not wittness them drectly. May be Viayasa was bribed so that he would write all good things about Krishna. Can one question in such a manner?

__________

In reply to:

__________

 

Sai Baba is a very powerful figure, it would behoove anyone to join forces with him rather than oppose him.

__________

 

Yes, it may be so and would mean all those close to Krishan too had to support Krishna for fear he might stike them with powerful curses.

__________

 

In reply to:

__________

 

Why is he being blamed for sexually molesting people?

__________

 

It is just like the fanatical Muslims saying Krishna was a pervert and had 16,000 concubines. But are these true and do you believe such malicious stories about Krishna? Do you believe Krishna to be pure ans milk, if so than you must also believe Sai Baba to be so coz if you see you neighbour to be a devil than he would be a devil in your eyes.

__________

 

In reply to:

__________

 

He may have powers, but if he did, why did the newspapers and such CATCH him in one of his "tricks"?

 

__________

What news papers? Like the American tabloits? To non believers everything would be hoax. Just as the Jews who doubted Jesus's miracles of curing the blind and bringing back Lazarus from dead.

__________

 

In reply to:

__________

 

The idea that he has done all this as a child, that he has performed miracles as a child, is also hard not to believe, but I read somewhere that Sai Baba's birthdate is not what he says it is and is actually a few years before or after his supposed birthdate. Also, it's possible the village that he was born in and his family are supporting him in this charade. Admittedly it's a pretty big conspiracy, but then again, bad things are starting to come out about him, so maybe it was a good conspiracy, of which the foundations are starting to crumble.

__________

 

His childhood miracles have been substantiated by people from his brth place after a thorough investigation by prominent authorities and are still living today but can you bring those who wittnessed Krishna's miracles?

__________

[Guest guest]

barney.. if you obstinately blaspheme krsna how can you have some idea of who's god or not god?

 

[barney 0]

What blaspheme are you talking about? I don't find this word in the Vedas. Are you aping the Christians, Jews and Muslims? I wonder where you learned the word BLASPHEME?

[Guest guest]

Barney

 

In reply to

 

His childhood miracles have been substantiated by people from his brth place after a thorough investigation by prominent authorities and are still living today but can you bring those who wittnessed Krishna's miracles?

 

 

You cannot get anymore stupid when you say , can you bring those who witnessed krisha's miracles.

[Guest guest]

he does not understand that it is a bad strategy..:

 

he want to say that if sai baba is a fake also sri krsna is a fake.. so anyone is right in worshipping fakes and no one can object

 

very bad..

[barney 0]

You cpmment:

 

You cannot get anymore stupid when you say , can you bring those who witnessed krisha's miracles.

_________

 

Is that all you can say? A logical duestion gets a stupid comment. I have not seen Krishna or Vyasa who wrote the mahabaratha but we as HIndus believe it solomnly. But if I am in the shoes of an atheist tis would be the question I would ask and what would be your logical reply? When you can believe what was written a few thousand years ago why cant's you accept what you see with your own eyes. A living person ceting a sensation and subscribing to the scriptures and yet you call him a fraud and cheat. I wonder how stupid can you be?

[Guest guest]

When you can believe what was written a few thousand years ago why cant's you accept what you see with your own eyes.

 

your purpose is revealed.. and it is a stupid purpose

 

if you have doubts about krsna you have to solve them, not that if krsna's existence is not sure, you also can follow something else who also is not sure

 

and you are also giving a bad service to your sai baba

 

we say to you that he's a fake and you to defend him are saying that yes, he's a fake, but also everything is a fake

 

use your intelligence and demonstrate actively if your friend sai baba is a master and god.. other things are useless

[barney 0]

My purpose is simple. I research, study and make an assertion. I do not go about saying Hindus are stupid and only my way is right. Comprehendo?

 

I do not have any doubts about Krishna. But do you? May be your Guru's explanation was not clear to you. Krishna did not mention when and where he will appear when dharma declines, so we have to use our own insinct to search and not just listen to a Guru who thinks that Krishna would only appear at the end of Kali Yug and not now. Do not be a doubtful Thomas.

 

My service to Sai Baba is nothing but merely studing him and getting to know him better. His preaching inspires me and they are meaningful. Morever he does not call the Hindus rascals and fools.

 

You yourself do not know what is fake and what is genuine and yet trying to teach me. Please open your mind and heart only than you will see the truth.

 

Sai Baba is a divine person and I need not demonostrate coz he is not a material for sale. Only those who are gifted get to know his true nature. May be you are an unlucky soul and need to take a million birth again to understand Brahman.

[Guest guest]

I do not go about saying Hindus are stupid and only my way is right.

--it would be a very bad thing

 

Krishna did not mention when and where he will appear when dharma declines,

--so anyone who claims to be god he's right because krsna can come when he wants?

 

so we have to use our own insinct to search and not just listen to a Guru who thinks that Krishna would only appear at the end of Kali Yug and not now

--blind faith can be your problem, not mine.. no real guru teaches blind faith. Study a little and you will discover that krsna comes at the end of kali yuga as kalki avatara. But it is not so important, if you want to confute this statement it is enough to demonstrate that sai baba is god. So, again, demonstrate that sai baba is god, not that is possible that one of the 6 billions inhabitants of the world is god.

 

My service to Sai Baba is nothing but merely studing him and getting to know him better

--so do better your service.. 'til now you was only able to insult others and not making a little step in demonstrating that sai baba is an authentic guru and god

 

Morever he does not call the Hindus rascals and fools.

--simply he takes everyone as a fool advertising himself as god. And the fact that someone consider him inside hinduism risks to lower the reputation of hinduism and hindus. He is the actual offender of hinduism

 

You yourself do not know what is fake and what is genuine and yet trying to teach me

--i am not advertising any master or god.. you are doing it. I only ask informations and details and express doubts. Very normal

 

Please open your mind and heart only than you will see the truth.

--they are opened.. give some valid knowledge and solve some doubts about your messages.. why not?

 

Sai Baba is a divine person and I need not demonostrate coz he is not a material for sale.

--so why are you are advertising? we are in a discussion forum, you cannot expect to write messages and not getting any response or objection

 

Only those who are gifted get to know his true nature

--so why speak of him? who receive the gift will benefit, who do not receive what's the use to tell him about sai baba?

 

May be you are an unlucky soul and need to take a million birth again to understand Brahman.

--you are surely right... i have learned only a few things.. that blind belief is very bad, that god is not cheap, that if one claims to be god, he has to give demonstrations or he's the biggest rascal

[barney 0]

My reply to your doubts:

 

Yes, it would be bad and Srila Prabhupada is fond of saying that.

 

Define Blind Faith? Is belief in the Gita blind faith? Is Sai's messages from the Gita blind faith? Is asking man to love each other blind faith? Is giving strength to the yearning heart by Sai blind faith? Please find the answers for he above in your heart. A feeble mind would not understand what is God and it's quality not would you understand what the Gita says;

 

The Blessed Lord said, “I am the Self, O Gudakesa, seated in the hearts of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings (20). Among the twelve Adityas, I am Vishnu; among luminous objects, the radiant Sun; I am Marichi among the forty-nine Maruts; among the stars the Moon am I (21). Among the Vedas I am the Sama Veda; I am Vasava (Indra) among the gods; among the senses I am the mind; and I am the intelligence among living beings (22). And among the Rudras, I am Sankara; among the Yakshas and Rakshasas, the Lord of wealth (Kubera); among the Vasus I am Pavaka (Agni); and among the (seven) mountains I am the Meru (23). Among the household priests (of kings) O Partha, know Me to be the chief, Brihaspati; among generals I am Skanda; among lakes, I am the ocean (24). Among the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; among words I am the one syllable OM; among sacrifices I am the sacrifice of silent repetition (Japa Yajna); among immovable things, the Himalayas (25). Among the trees I am the Asvattha; among divine Rishis Narada; among Gandharvas Chitraratha; among the perfected ones the Muni Kapila (26).

 

I do not insult but make my point when you said I'm stupid and ignorant. What makes you think that you are right? I post what I think may help those who wish to learn more about Sai and his mission in life and if that irks you all you need to do is ignore. Why do you want to degrade when you know nothing about Sai Baba?

 

If all his followers are fools what does it matter to you? They are having a blissful life singing bajans and kirtans while you are burning here with gall.

 

To speak word of truth is not advertising. Something you ought to know the difference.

 

May be I need to learn to speak in your mother tounge to make you understand.

 

Here again you seem to speak in giberish. But, I feel there is no need for you to get confused. Whatever you faith is have a better understand of it and gain the wisdom of it.

 

Are you selling God. Hello! God has not set value for him that you need to pay high price to gain him. If you believe in his power than you should know he can and will manifest as and when he wants and you cannot question him. Learn that before you set a value for him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Barney

 

Accepted Saibaba is a divine person. But why do you think "GOD" needs bodyguards to protect him.

[Guest guest]

Define Blind Faith?

••to believe without sufficient demonstration

 

Is belief in the Gita blind faith?

••gita is not a belief, a dogma, gita is a school.. gita explains how krsna has taught to arjuna the procedure of achieving spiritual consciousness. We are invited to reason and make the same path veirfying step by step or advancement

 

Is Sai's messages from the Gita blind faith?

••there's to decide if sai baba is teaching the principles of gita or something of his invention. First of all he fails to understand the gita in claiming to be himself krsna and not surrendering to the real krsna

 

Is asking man to love each other blind faith?

••yes.. because this advice has has'nt any value if there's no comprehension of what is love. And love surely is not sayng to be god and accept adoration from others. This is cheating.. not love .. neither respect that is less than love

 

The Blessed Lord said.... etc

••where krsna says: "among the haircuts i am sai baba?"... jokes apart, wich one of these verses by sri krsna bhagavan gives to you the impression that sai baba is krsna.. or vice-versa?

 

Why do you want to degrade when you know nothing about Sai Baba?

••the problem is yours.. if you are claiming that someone is god, you have to prove it. If you say that sai baba is god, i have the right to ask for demonstrations. We are spiritualists, if god comes we have the duty to worship him. But we have also to be discriminative and not make mistakes, because we have to be serious. So if one says that someone is a spiritual master or god, it is natural that we ask for demonstrations. So give these demonstrations and make me know more about sai baba.

The only thing i know, is that no one has given to me a decent demonstration. The only things that is possible to say are "krsna can come when he wants so sai baba can be krsna...", "we are all god, so sai baba is also god"

 

They are having a blissful life singing bajans and kirtans while you are burning here with gall.

••barney.. you simply cannot say anything rational about the divinity of say baba and you say that i am burning because i do not believe blindly

 

To speak word of truth is not advertising. Something you ought to know the difference.

••to speak the truth is also to give decent demonstrations that this is truth.. otherwise it is advertising, and like the advertising you want to sell something without giving explanations and you get angry when some one asks them

 

May be I need to learn to speak in your mother tounge to make you understand.

••an easy joke...

 

Here again you seem to speak in giberish

••enough clear to make you understand... otherwise you weren't answering

 

God has not set value for him that you need to pay high price to gain him

••if you think that god is cheap.. you will find that god is acyuta, not possible to achieve. If you respect him and give him the importance he deserves, there's hope

 

If you believe in his power than you should know he can and will manifest as and when he wants

••so sai baba is god because krsna if he wants, he can come as sai baba?... the same reasoning can be applied also to brigitte bardot, mel gibson, sonia gandhi, george bush and britney spears?

 

Learn that before you set a value for him.

••just done

 

[Guest guest]

But I also believe that Sai Baba is a great person. No need to hound him like this-this is exactly what the enemies of Hinduism want. They want you to fight amongst yourselves. Worship Rama, Krishna, Sai Baba, anyone at all, with a pure heart. That is enough. No need to be so critical. If you dont like Sai Baba, fine. But you dont have to say nasty things. If at all he is a bad person, prove it instead of slinging the same old accusations. It only makes Hindus look cheap. Is this what you want? There are so many people around the world, not just in india, who commit heinous crimes, and all you can do is pick on a man who's built world-class schools and hospitals?? This is an example of how cheap hindus have become, due to thousand years of slavery.

[Guest guest]

No need to hound him like this-this is exactly what the enemies of Hinduism want.

--in my opinion to accept so easily that one's god or even a real master is actually something who gives bad reputation to hinduism.Are the hindus so fool to accept everyone as god simply if he says to be god. And this is very sad because we have a great and detailed literature explaining who's god and who's a cheater. Obviously the hindus are not so fool and i have big doubts that sai baba is considered induism by the majority of people

 

Worship Rama, Krishna, Sai Baba, anyone at all, with a pure heart. That is enough.

--you give to the word pure the meaining of ingenuous or maybe fool.... pure is who wants to be honestly completely conscious of what he's doing and of the path he's walking on. If you want to go to delhi but, purely, you take a plane for oslo you will not go to delhi

 

If at all he is a bad person, prove it instead of slinging the same old accusations.

--if you read better, i never accuse him of pedophily or something else.. i only say that there's no one who gives sufficient demonstration that he's god and for me he's not god. So if one is not god but let others to believe that he's god he's a cheater

 

It only makes Hindus look cheap. Is this what you want?

--i aks to you the same question... is it good that hindus appear so cheap to accept so easily that one's god? why not be serious instead of trying to hide the problems? fortunately, in the west, sai baba is not at all considered hinduism or an authentic indian traditional school. So there's hope

 

There are so many people around the world, not just in india, who commit heinous crimes, and all you can do is pick on a man who's built world-class schools and hospitals??

--we are in a religious forum.. we speak about religious leaders, religious cheaters and so on

 

This is an example of how cheap hindus have become, due to thousand years of slavery.

--so to became less cheap stop to worship cheap gods... where's the problem?.

(In 1800 in orissa there was a law to put in jail who was claiming to be god.. before there' was death penalty... if they wanted to be free they had to show the visva rupa to assembled judges and public)

 

who claims to be god or who claims that the man he's following is god, being it a very strange thing, has the duty to demonstrate it or to keep it for himself. Even many real avataras were not saying to be god o everyone and their followers kept it for themselves. We know now that these persons were avataras when the followers have given plenty of scriptural and logic demonstrations, after the disappearance, to renowned religious authorities

 

So you have the duty to demonstrate... not others... if you do it it will be a demonstration that hindus are not cheap and easily cheated