sandra 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Hare krishna! In my opinion and i stress my opinion (and that of most iskcon followers) Krishna is the supreme. I used to be and still am a worshipper of Lord Shiva. I do not, like some hare krishna devotees (I was part of the sankitan group in ISKCON Mauritius before moving to Canada so i know what i'm talking about), shun Shiva or any other demigod or demigod pujas... Actually i attend all of them... I do not seek personal blessings, i just do it out of respect and faith that these demigods can bring us closer to Krishna if we know what and how to ask them... It's easy to say that Shiva is a great vaisnava bla bla bla ...but if you can't even bow before him and acknowledge it... what's the use of merely saying it for the sake of saying it? Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the gopis pray to Parvati to get Krishna as their husband??? Parvati is a demigoddess - so does that mean that their faith in krishna is small cause they appealed to Parvati instead of going to Krishna directly... The gopis were one of the most exalted devotees of the lord! I firmly believe that it's thanks to the mercy of Lord Shiva that i found out about Krishna consciousness. I was very sick for three whole years and under a lot of medications. I started praying to shiva and as i got better with time, my interest for Krishna Consciousness just grew out of nowhere! But in my heart, i have the complete conviction that it's thanks to the mercy of such a great vaisnava like Shiva that I found the path to Krishna Consciousness today and I'm not letting go! So now that i've found out Krishna, do i shun Shiva? Do i shun the very vaisnava that brought me to Krishna? This is beyond me. This is hypocrisy. Even if you pray to a demigod.. if you're sincere the truth gets revealed to you in due time... And again that's my personal opinion. You're free to agree or disagree. I'm holding my grounds on this one. Who am i and who are you to judge? Demigods are above humans so in that respect, i think it's best not to make offensive comments on any demigod whomsoever. For those of you who have the faith that krishna is the supreme the need to convince others doesn't pose itself. I'm not saying one shouldn't discuss spiritual topics but when compromises seem impossible, it's best just to let go... What's the use of having the last word in every discussion if that means coming to harsh words, heated arguments and hurt feelings????? Is that what faith in god is all about? I used to do it myself: criticize others' faith and beliefs only to find out that my own bhakti was dangerously at stakes here... So i gave all that up. Whether you pray to Durga, Shiva, Ganesha... or any demigod, Krishna sees and knows how sincere you are... If you seek the truth you'll get the truth and if you seek maya, you'll get maya... If i have to choose between chanting one more round and winning a spiritual argument over someone i'd rather go for the extra round! And again this is just my personal opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 16, 2004 You and I are not very different. You worship Siva, who is the god of destruction, whereas us guys worship the devil in man, nature and the world. In short, we both worship Satan in some form or the other, you call it siva and we call it Satan. But it goes on to show that hindus and devil worshippers are very similar, so we should stop fighting and join forces. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 16, 2004 All creation is only a ray of Krishna's potency so any demigod is only his creation and servant. If by Satan you mean "evil" incarnated, as per the Bible, or the complete opposite of God than such a being does not exist, nothing exists independent of Krishna. Jai Sri Krishna! -Amit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pankaja_Dasa 1 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Lord Siva brought you to Krishna, can't you take a hint? This is your Guru {lord siva} and now what are you doing, have you gone mad?! Follow Guru that way you never be lost, I can 'maybe' understand somewhat your position as regards to people saying about demi-god this that etc, but all demi-god means is somebody who is serving Krishna, so of-cource at first we have to know who is Supreme etc, otherwise we will think everybody is God, then that is greatest offence to chanting, this is a personal reply to you, in case others jump onto me, but I consider Lord as a very great devotee and very powerful with that, but don't think of him as Supreme otherwise you'll spoil everything. Hare Krsna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barney 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Shiva is Ishwara : It is this Brahman alone which weilding his Maya Shakti is called Ishwara. Maya is a great creative power, and with it alone Ishwara creates, sustains & destroys this world. It is one Ishwara alone which does all these three works. The Hindu scriptures have a unique feature of giving an individuality to every special aspect of this creation, so even when one Ishwara alone is doing everything, we have three individualities representing the three important works of Ishwara. Brahma, Vishnu & Mahesh are thus the karya-naam of one Ishwara. As creator Ishwara alone is called as Brahma, as the sustainer he alone is called as Vishnu, and as the destroyer he alone is called as Rudra or Mahesh. This third aspect of Ishwara came to have got associated with Shiva. So Shivji is Brahman, he is Ishwara & he is even the God incharge of destruction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barney 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Shiva is Ishwara : It is this Brahman alone which weilding his Maya Shakti is called Ishwara. Maya is a great creative power, and with it alone Ishwara creates, sustains & destroys this world. It is one Ishwara alone which does all these three works. The Hindu scriptures have a unique feature of giving an individuality to every special aspect of this creation, so even when one Ishwara alone is doing everything, we have three individualities representing the three important works of Ishwara. Brahma, Vishnu & Mahesh are thus the karya-naam of one Ishwara. As creator Ishwara alone is called as Brahma, as the sustainer he alone is called as Vishnu, and as the destroyer he alone is called as Rudra or Mahesh. This third aspect of Ishwara came to have got associated with Shiva. So Shiva is Brahman, he is Ishwara & he is even the God incharge of destruction. The word Shiva is derived from the sanskrut root ‘Shing’ meaning swapney. The derived word thus implies ‘that in which everyone sleeps to or relaxes’. It is that non-dual substratum of the whole cosmos in which everyone attains total fulfillment & relaxation. Mandukya Upanishad says that ‘Shantam Shivam Chaturtham Advaitam Manyante’, i.e. the peaceful, non-dual, fourth state of Consciousness is Shivam – extremely auspicious & fulfilling. This is the Shiva Tattva. It is not something which is objectifiable but is realised as our very subjective essence. He is realised as our very Self. The word Shiva in its most fundamental meaning is a synonym of Brahman. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandra 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 I take Shiva as my guru but i do not worship him as the supreme. I pray to him for guidance. See, back in Mauritius if you went to a shiva temple you're looked down upon by the local iskcon devotees as a karmi... People think that you only pray to demigods for material grants and i reckon i used to pray for a better health. Now i don't need to thanks to Krishna and Shiva. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandra 0 Report post Posted June 16, 2004 You're free to worship whatever you wish but i personally would not join forces with satan worshippers. Satan is the scapegoat we use for sins that we commit. It's easy to blame Satan for everything. I always thought the Satan in the bible to be more symbolic rather than an actual being... What do you gain by worshipping 'Satan' anyway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 16, 2004 Sandra, I worshipped Shiva for 2 years, and HE sent me to Ramana. HE guides one to appropriate place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadhav 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2004 << Satan is the scapegoat we use for sins that we commit. >> not we hindus, but the xians. per the vedic literature satan does not exist, never has, never will. there are poeple with demoniac mentality and karma. there is at least one demoniac ideology. -------- your thinking and understanding about siva and krishna is correct and very good. we just hope that HKs understand it too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 17, 2004 is all that exists. Your god is an illusion, so why worship illusion? Worship that which is real. This is what kali worship is all about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandra 0 Report post Posted June 17, 2004 It's my choice to worship Krsna and I respect your decision to worship kali. What bothers me is you harping on kali worship as all in all. Follow your path and let others follow theirs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2004 he's not worshipping kali.. kali is the sister of sri krsna, a very positive and divine personality he's worshipping something that does not exist.. there's no devil, the universe is pervaded by brahman, there's not a cube centimeter free to be inveded by evil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandra 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2004 "I am trying to save you. Dont miss this chance. The devil is all that exits, so dont deny that. Drop your ignorance and surrender to satan." Seriously, Devil Worshipper this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. I don't know whether to be amused or annoyed! But i did laugh to myself when i read that post! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandra 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2004 "he's worshipping something that does not exist.. there's no devil, the universe is pervaded by brahman, there's not a cube centimeter free to be inveded by evil" I doubt that he truly worships the Devil like he claims. (In fact, very few people do.) He just gets his kicks by posting comments to piss others off... and i ain't falling for that! Reason why i don't take his posts seriously! "kali is the sister of sri krsna, a very positive and divine personality" Yup, i agree with you on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 25, 2006 everything that exists is god. i have had the benefit of tbeing on the spiritual path for a while, and i have links with iskcon,as well as other spiritual foundations and instiutions. there is always this argument over who is the one supreme god to be worshiped. the iskcon devotees say krsna, others say shiva. i personally believe that krsna is the supreme god, but becos of that it also means that shiva is part of krsna. shiva is the king of all yogis and the master of all yoga. if there was no shiva there would be no yoga, without yoga how can anybody realize krsna. therefore all demigods and enlightened beings are krsna in different forms and with different purposes. if u are on the path of meditation it is easier to worship shiva, as he is the king of all yogis and the supreme guru. if u follow the bhakti path u should worship krsna. but there is nothing wrong with worshiping both!!!!! i do worship all demigods as well as krsna. all this talk of do's and donts(in terms of who to worship) is a matter of opinion and believe, it is rooted in the mind and is of the ego, get rid of these useless internal debates and dialogues! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
