Why do People fight here?

[kandukondein 0]

Why do people fight in this website. Right now we are in a grave danger of Hinduism being dominated by other world religions. Most of the western countries dont regard hinduism as they regard Budhism after all budhism was an offshoot of hinduism. In spite of all these i can see people fighting here on vaishnavism and shaivism. Be it Dwaita,Adwaita,Vishistadwaita we are true Hindus and its our duty to remain united and serve the purpose. I am a Madhwa and hold extreme regards to Sri Raghavendra. But that does not make me less devoted to Sri Venkateshwara or Shiva. I am not a hardline hindu and not much knowledgable in Vedas as some guys here are, (Infact i am trying to become by reading everything lately) but wondered whether my post cud solve some of the issues that are most prominent in this site.

Thanks

Kandukondein

 

[barney 0]

This what we have been trying to drum into the minds of fanatics. Some of the Vaishnavas and HK's are adamant in saying Krishna is the supreme and all others are demigods and that people should give up believing in them. I would not stand by and watch these fools trying ruin the faith and unity of the Hindus in general. I'm not againsyt them promoting their belief but why are they aping the Muslims and Christians in degrading the belief of other Hindus?

 

I have supported the HK's by buying their periodicals and do visit Krishna temples whenever time permits but when I read comments from these fellows I feel they do not respect my belief and it is my duty as a Hindu to defend my faith.

[Guest guest]

i never seen you defending in discussion, have seen you spamming, like now that you are saying many not exact things

 

no one is saying to give up worship of devas, only to worship them as servant of the supreme lord si krsna

 

read better the periodicals you receive, or give philosophical opposition, the research of "hindu" unity does not authorize ourselves to concoct some new doctrine and to ruin the dharma... otherwise we are uniting on adharma, and an adharmic union does not surely last for too long

[Guest guest]

Muslims are having a good time, laughing at our stupidity, how immature we are, and how, even after thousand years of slaughter, we still cannot unite!

[barney 0]

Use a name and we will discuss further.

[Guest guest]

so do not follow the example of those (the muslims) who are united on irreligion... if you do that where's the difference? what's the advantage if an adharmi is gone and another adharmi comes?

[Guest guest]

my name is guest... if you do not like the fact that an anonymous can write in this forum protest with the webmaster not with me

 

otherwise i can simply understand that you have no answers

[barney 0]

Guess what if Guest is your name, I guess you really must be the Guest here and I need not have to guess what your motives are. Anyway it's quite difficult here to guess which guest I'm replying to as there seems to be too many guest here. I'm sure you're not ashame to use your name, which your parents lovingly named you. So, I guess until I know to, which guest I'm dealing with, I'd say I'll hold on till than.

[Guest guest]

you are a mayavadi, so be coherent and do not care of names, distinctions, definitions, divisions and so on

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

RE

(so do not follow the example of those (the muslims) who are united on irreligion... if you do that where's the difference? what's the advantage if an adharmi is gone and another adharmi comes?)

 

Can you give an example where a Hindu unity is based on irreeligion?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

hindu unity itself is irreligion.. advaita, dvaita, gaudyas and mayavadi follow opposite conceptions on the fundamental doctrines of their beliefs

 

any of them, accepting to be unite with others under a common spiritual/religious denomination, goes against his doctrine, his conception of sanatana dharma

 

and, if anyone says that vedas or gita admit all the various forms of worship called today hinduism, it is not a conciliation but another different theory and belief, because the remaining schools do not accept this

 

another adharmic thing of what is called hindu union today is the fact that it is commonly centered on race fighting with the addiction of some attempts to twist the varnashrama principle in calling everyone to fight against muslim

 

very ofte neohindu fanaticism promotes also theocracy, that is adharmic and it is the same thing that muslim are doing.. mixing politic with religion

 

[Guest guest]

from Uniformity. Understand that. Nobody is suggesting that all Hindus should say the same thing, think the same thing et al. The basic principle of Hinduism is freedom, which means Hindus can think for themselves. But it doesn't mean they should never put aside differences and unite for a common cause. That requires strength of character, that's all. It doesnt mean you have to give up freedom. You simply have to give up your petty little ego. Let the advaitist have any number of differences with Vaishnava, but when it comes to 'greater good', please hold hands, pray together, fight together, live or die together. That's all I am saying. I am not at all suggesting everyone should follow the same philosophy, same rituals, same ideas etc. Let there be differences, heaps of differences, but we must also learn to sidestep them and unite, whenever the situation demands.

[Guest guest]

Let the advaitist have any number of differences with Vaishnava, but when it comes to 'greater good'

 

 

there's not a "greater good" in common between vaishnavas and advaitists, the greater good for the ones is a blasphemy for the others

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

 

RE

(hindu unity itself is irreligion.. advaita, dvaita, gaudyas and mayavadi follow opposite conceptions on the fundamental doctrines of their beliefs)

 

If I may try and illustrate this,

 

In a family of several members the parents instill good qualities in them like truthfulness, amhinsa cleanliness tolerance and also to be responsible for their karma etc. They are brought up to believe in god from a very early stage in their life.

As they grow older most of the family members go their separate ways but still united as a family

Good quality they had learnt from their childhood is still there but now they have added experience in their life. Some of them have same concept of the supreme but different ways to approach; others have developed different concepts.

 

They all get drawn together united in the understanding they all come from same family, they share their experience their knowledge. No one is forced to accept anything.

 

But according to you such a union of the family is irreligious

 

Your definition of irreligious is astounding. Ever heard of freedom to choose or not to choose?

You are prepared to condemn anyone who holds different view then yours.

 

I would like to judge, that is if I have to, is by their actions and not by his or hers belief.

What value is of my belief, how ever correct, if my actions are in opposite direction?

 

 

 

 

 

Re

(any of them, accepting to be unite with others under a common spiritual/religious denomination, goes against his doctrine, his conception of sanatana dharma)

 

Unity in diversity has been there before, it is now and will always be there, it is a pity you can not see this.

No ones doctrine is compromised by our unity.

 

RE

(and, if anyone says that vedas or gita admit all the various forms of worship called today hinduism, it is not a conciliation but another different theory and belief, because the remaining schools do not accept this)

 

Well you are free to ignore what Lord Krishna says

Bg 9.15

Others, who engage in sacrifice by the cultivation of knowledge, worship the Supreme Lord as the one without a second, as diverse in many, and in the universal form

 

Re

(another adharmic thing of what is called hindu union today is the fact that it is commonly centered on race fighting with the addiction of some attempts to twist the varnashrama principle in calling everyone to fight against muslim )

 

To protect the dharma is adharmic then I am afraid you will have to rewrite the vedas.

 

Re

(very ofte neohindu fanaticism promotes also theocracy, that is adharmic and it is the same thing that muslim are doing.. mixing politic with religion)

 

I do not know what you mean here, but I would like to say the Muslims are neither politically correct nor peaceful in their practice of Islam.

 

As for mixing politic with religion? How can you separate this?

Ever heard of rajrishis?

All the kings had rajya guru to guide them in the affairs of the kingdom.

 

 

Hindus are waking up from thousand years of suffering from nonvedic people, no one accept Hindus could be so magnanimous in wanting to appease the aggressor. Only thing we get back is more insult in form of conversion.

 

We so much speak against it, and get labeled as fanatics.

 

In contrast look at the reaction to 9-11

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

[Guest guest]

They are brought up to believe in god from a very early stage in their life.

.wich god, or wich common concept of god?

 

But according to you such a union of the family is irreligious

.i simply ask where's a real conceptual unity. For me there's not, so decide which school has the real sanatana dharma and you will see that the other ones are so different that the union is impossible if not corrupting the principle

 

You are prepared to condemn anyone who holds different view then yours.

.so do not condemn who see that there's no unity

 

I would like to judge, that is if I have to, is by their actions and not by his or hers belief.

.we are speaking of philosophy, dharma, religion.. and we have to judge according these cathegories. Everyone in many moments of the practical life judges obviously by actions, if i take a taxi or i get some fruit i have no interest if the taxi driver or the fruit shopkeeper is religious, not religious, hindu, christian,advaitin, shivaist and so on. So i do not understand why are you making such objection

 

What value is of my belief, how ever correct, if my actions are in opposite direction?

.so your concept of unity is "being all of us hypochrites and not really following our religions better to unite indiscriminately"?

 

Unity in diversity has been there before

.i see diversity, opposition and not union..

 

No ones doctrine is compromised by our unity.

.hindu unity is a doctrine who teachs that doctrines have to compromise to be reunited in one... hinduism

 

Well you are free to ignore what Lord Krishna says

Bg 9.15

Others, who engage in sacrifice by the cultivation of knowledge, worship the Supreme Lord as the one without a second, as diverse in many, and in the universal form

.i agree, but many of the schools that you want to reunite in hinduism do not agree on what's said in this verse. They say that the lord is not supreme but it is second to brahman, and that universal form is a material manifestation of brahman.. so it is not my fault

 

To protect the dharma is adharmic then I am afraid you will have to rewrite the vedas.

.to protect dharma you have to respect the varnashrama dharma, if you twist it to fight some adharma, you have two adharmas fighting each other. Whoever wins is a disgrace

 

I would like to say the Muslims are neither politically correct nor peaceful in their practice of Islam.

.so let us not imitate them

 

All the kings had rajya guru to guide them in the affairs of the kingdom.

.so let us follow the gurus in real sanatana dharma and abandon impersonalism and mayavadism.. in this way we will have real saint king

 

Hindus are waking up from thousand years of suffering from nonvedic people

.people do not live thousand years... max 85... 90... 95... 100... punish the guilty, not the people or the religion of the guilty

 

Only thing we get back is more insult in form of conversion.

.who "convert" to another religion is already not following the previous one.. so where's the loss?

 

 

[maadhav 0]

i understand and agree with what you are saying.

 

when there is a common problem bigger than one can solve, then unity is needed for combines unified effort.

 

first thisg is that all hindus need to understand what are our common problems and global strategic interests.

after that understand the problems and sole unitedly. if not unitedly, sole indivudually.

 

here is a quiz:

 

islam terrorism is a commomproblem for all the hidus in india.

 

what solution vaishnavas propose?

what solution advaitis propose?

what solution other hindus propose?

 

what solution they propose to stop corruption?

 

please give proposals.

 

if they cannot agree on one solution and united effort, then let them solve in their own way, but solve it.

 

[Guest guest]

My spiritual master , Srila Prabhupada, said that if there is a World War III, it will begin between Pakistan and India, however, he stated that the way to avoid the war, is to spread the purifying Sankirtana Mission of Peace, to all peoples.This means three things: prasadam distribution, street processions of chanting Hare Krsna, and distribution of Bhagavad gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, and other Vaisnava literature. The formula is very simple, but we dont take it , because we are very complicated. When the devotees go out into the streets to chant the Hare Krsna mantra, this pleases the Lord and the devatas very much to give the rains for the grains. Everything becomes all auspicious by this glorification, yet very few do this. Those that do, maybe do it in the comfort of their homes, but do not understand the necessity to bring the chanting of the Lords Holy Names into the streets of every city.

 

Secondly, there should be massive prasadam distribution for all people. The devotees at Hare krsna temples already do this, but they need your help to expand the distribution of prasadam. When people consume prasadam, their lust and anger becomes more controlled, and their minds become purified. We require donations of tons of bhoga , in the form of rice and dhal, vegetables and spices , so that we can go on increasing prasadam distribution in a big way. Sirla Prabhupada also suggested that to expand Harinama and prasadam distribution, is a big part of the solution of crime, the problem is, the politicians themselves are usually criminals, and do not understand the value of this purifying program for peace.

 

Thridly, we can extend this kindness, especially the prasadam distirbution to the Muslim peoples, and win their firendship. SHow them that they are also Krishna's (Allah's) family, and that we honor them and respect them. Invite them to the temple functions. Those who are more philosophical can also learn how to explain the parallels existing between the Qu'uran and the Bhagavad gita. We are all Abdullah, we are all servants of Krsna. I preach to them like that, and they like it. I say Salam alekem to them, Allah akbar, and their face lights up with a smile. We have to learn to realte to them on their level, and show that we accept them, ( although of course we don't accept that they kill cows, etc....) We hate the sin and not the sinner. Better to focus on the commanalities.

 

Prabhupada explained that millions of Muslims used to be devotees of Lord Krsna, although they may have been from the sudra varna, but because of the caste brahmans treating them cruelly, and the British imposing taxes on them, they thought it better to become Muslim. So those who are brahmans in name only , because of being born in that family, but who lack the qualifications, they helped to create Islamic Terrorism. Our own people helped to create it because of their arrogance. SO let us become humble devotees of the Lord, and learn to see all beings as part of the Lord.

 

Even up to 50 years ago muslims would come to the temple for Janmastami, and Hinduis would come to the mosque for Ramadan, and people respected each other more. It is only the politicians that get the people stirred up and create unrest. Let us preach for unity by these peaceful methods. At the same time, some ksatriyas must be there, for those who are too hateful to respond to love.

 

Lord Krsna gives the peace formula in the Gita in Chapter 5 verse 29. Those who acknowledge Him asthe SUpre Enjoyer, the Supreme COntoller of all planets and devas, and the best friend of all living entities, attain peace from the pangs of material nature.If some Muslims are too envious to hear that Krsna is Allah, and just think he is an ordinary man, then just talk about Krsna with the name of Allah instead, and keep showing love and kindness to them. Most of all, we have to learn to love oursleves first, by daily chanting the Hare Krsna mantra, avoiding tamsic foods by eating only Krsna prasadam, and taking shelter of the sadhu sanga of pure Vaisnava devotees. We can't help others if we remain in a diseased state.

 

Ayurveda encourages a satvic way of life. As long as people eat meat, whether Hindu or muslim, smoke bidis, chew pan, etc...they will not have the clear intelligence or freedom from passion and ignorance to behave properly, when push comes to shove. Even eating grains cooked by nondevotees makes the mind very polluted. Better to make our own chapatis, and follow ekadasi twice a month for protection of the Maya Virus that has infected everybody.

[Guest guest]

Hindus and vaisnavas are stupid, if indeed they are different. You know why? Because they are both fighting over false gods. How ridiculous is that?

[Guest guest]

I think that Krsna is laughing most unto your ignorant posts, dont u think?? Krsna where instructing Arjuna on the battle field and after that we have The glorious Gita, and in that Gita Krsna says that all the Devas are His servant, and if u belief in what Krsna is saying, then YOU most accept that the devas are His servant, Krsna said it and hence they are!! Krsna havent said that He is a servant to Síva or Brahma, they on the other hand had said that they are servants to Govinda, The supreme Cause of All Causes, read and learn before u call sumone a fanatic!! I aint no fanatic, I have tried and researched and have come to the conclusion that Govinda is the Almighty One, and belief it or not, when I was a Saivit, Síva himself gave me a mantra that is greater than his name, and in that mantra is the name Govinda!!

[Guest guest]

Whom are u to say that we worship false gods, are u all seeing and know this for a fact!?

[Guest guest]

U havent yet aswered my Q yet,are u allseeing and know this for a fact!? Atheism has always in the end resulted in greed and sense gratification, the only thing a atheist is saying when he think its good is that he is to weak to follow Divine Laws!! u as a atheist, are u always happy!? In fact it is scientific profable that beliefers are more opponistic and happy then atheists!!

[Guest guest]

the so called unbeliever will believe when Krsna presents Himself as death in front of Him !!!!! walla !!! this u can be sure, i can be sure and dear mr. unbeliever, u too will see !!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

when there is a common problem bigger than one can solve, then unity is needed for combines unified effort.

..all indian people of all religions have to unite against illegality and terrorism

 

islam terrorism is a commomproblem for all the hidus in india

..also for muslims and christians... terrorism cannot be connected with a religious name, if it is terrorism it cannot be islamic

 

what solution vaishnavas propose?

..1)to vote for a good government able to obtain law's respect... 2)to spread spiritual consciousness, in this way the materialism goes away automatically

 

what solution they propose to stop corruption?

..to vote for non corrupted politics

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

They are brought up to believe in god from a very early stage in their life.

(.wich god, or wich common concept of god?)

 

Read my statement again and answer if you must to the point i made. No need to pull sentences out of context.

And if you contemplate on the question you have asked you might find the answer, using tolerance as a key.

 

Re

.(i simply ask where's a real conceptual unity. For me there's not, so decide which school has the real sanatana dharma and you will see that the other ones are so different that the union is impossible if not corrupting the principle)

 

None, but the point is missed on you, no one here is asking anyone to drop their concept or compromise their principles. No one has monopoly on sanatan dharma, concept will remain a concept until you realize it.

 

Re

((You are prepared to condemn anyone who holds different view then yours.))

(.so do not condemn who see that there's no unity)

 

You are welcome to your views, but do not be surprised at response you may get.

 

Re

(.we are speaking of philosophy, dharma, religion.. and we have to judge according these cathegories.)

 

No prabhu you were talking of irreligious and said I judge people by their action and not their beliefs

 

 

Re

(Everyone in many moments of the practical life judges obviously by actions, if i take a taxi or i get some fruit i have no interest if the taxi driver or the fruit shopkeeper is religious, not religious, hindu, christian,advaitin, shivaist and so on. So i do not understand why are you making such objection)

 

So one minute it is obvious the next it is of no interest to you?

No one judges anyone by their belief, I may believe philosophically I am perfect, but then go out and steal I get judge for my action.

 

Re

(.so your concept of unity is "being all of us hypochrites and not really following our religions better to unite indiscriminately"?)

 

Who is asking you to do this? Follow your path 100%, but do not think yours is better then others, have tolerance for others, judge not on what they think but on what they do. Unity is not in forcing people to accept what you perceive to be right but in respect of others beliefs

 

Re

.(i see diversity, opposition and not union.. )

 

I see diversity, tolerance respect etc and no amount of your opposition will break this family.

 

Re

(.hindu unity is a doctrine who teachs that doctrines have to compromise to be reunited in one... hinduism)

 

Read better, you will find you are wrong.

 

 

 

Bg 9.15

Others, who engage in sacrifice by the cultivation of knowledge, worship the Supreme Lord as the one without a second, as diverse in many, and in the universal form

(.i agree,)

 

No you don’t, you change your direction like the wind.

 

Re

( but many of the schools that you want to reunite in hinduism do not agree on what's said in this verse. They say that the lord is not supreme but it is second to brahman, and that universal form is a material manifestation of brahman.. so it is not my fault)

 

I do not need to unite anyone, who choose what path is not an issue with me, just as rainbow is beautiful with all it colors or just a white light passing through a prism, fact is they all exist, beauty is in the eye of a beholder, I do not impose my choice on anyone.

 

Re

 

(.to protect dharma you have to respect the varnashrama dharma, if you twist it to fight some adharma, you have two adharmas fighting each other. Whoever wins is a disgrace)

 

To protect Dharma is every ones duty physically intellectually or otherwise. Vedas says quite clearly by protecting the Dharma, the Dharma will protect you, it is you who is bringing a new twist to this meaning and calling it adhrma. In the end truth always triumphs, and it’s never a disgrace

 

Re

.(so let us not imitate them)

 

Get real there is nothing worth imitating

 

 

((All the kings had rajya guru to guide them in the affairs of the kingdom.))

Re

(.so let us follow the gurus in real sanatana dharma and abandon impersonalism and mayavadism.. in this way we will have real saint king)

 

Stick to the point prabhu, it was your claim “cant mix religion and politics” concept of god is not the issue.

 

Re

(.people do not live thousand years... max 85... 90... 95... 100... punish the guilty, not the people or the religion of the guilty)

 

But the memory do for a long time, guilty do not escape justice, their aim has not change they want to get rid of all other religion and establish Islam, and only way they know is by force and deception.

 

Re

(.who "convert" to another religion is already not following the previous one.. so where's the loss)

 

it is quite obvious you do not care but we do.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

And if you contemplate on the question you have asked you might find the answer, using tolerance as a key.

..tolerance is not a problem, and there's no need to unite without discrimination to have tolerance.. the answer is that one believes that god is a person and that thinking that god has no form is a blasphemy.. the other thinks that the personal aspect of god is mythology. With my best tolerance i do not find any common way

 

no one here is asking anyone to drop their concept or compromise their principles

..so if there's not a common principle, on wich basis the union is done if not on compromises?

 

No one has monopoly on sanatan dharma, concept will remain a concept until you realize it.

..so let us unite in the same conception of dharma when we will realize, if we'll realize that the concept is the same. For now the common concept is not there

 

No prabhu you were talking of irreligious and said I judge people by their action and not their beliefs

..there's irreligious actions and irreligious beliefs.. if we are talking of beliefs we judge beliefs and not actions

 

No one judges anyone by their belief

..we are speaking if the different beliefs that someone calls collectively hinduism have a common part, section, theory of these beliefs to justify their union under the same name.. that's the point. That there's bad persons and good persons independently to their beliefs it is clear. If you want to make a union of the good people do it and call good advaitins, dvaitins, shaivites, vaishnavas, muslims, christians and so on.. there's no problem

 

Follow your path 100%, but do not think yours is better then others

..better or worst it is not our problem now, we are speaking of differences and to unite people without a common principle to justify this union

 

Unity is not in forcing people to accept what you perceive to be right but in respect of others beliefs

..unity is unite on principles and features.. now no one is discussing wich principle is good or wich is bad. Find a common principle and feature of main importance in the different so called hindu dharmas and i will agree with you that hinduism is a reality. Then, to decide if hinduism is bad or good it is another subject.. For me the fact that the conception of god is so opposite does not give any possibility to have the same denomination

 

Bg 9.15

Others, who engage in sacrifice by the cultivation of knowledge, worship the Supreme Lord as the one without a second, as diverse in many, and in the universal form

(.i agree,)

No you don’t, you change your direction like the wind.

..the explanation followed this statement.. and you were not able to confute it.. so you have not demonstrated my changing direction

 

I do not need to unite anyone

..so why this discussion?

 

just as rainbow is beautiful with all it colors or just a white light passing through a prism,

..you have to demonstrate that all the "rainbow" of hinduism comes from only one white light (=concept)

 

beauty is in the eye of a beholder

..beauty is also an objective reality.. if you are not a mayavadi. And there's nothing bad in being a mayavadi, but where's the need to unite with people who consider that "all is maya" is not true?

 

Vedas says quite clearly by protecting the Dharma, the Dharma will protect you

..so let us follow it.. the scriptures where we learn the dharma do not talk about any hinduism and any need to unite opposite beliefs in a non existent one

 

it is you who is bringing a new twist to this meaning and calling it adhrma

..when i give my opinions i try to explain them.. you have not done it

 

Stick to the point prabhu, it was your claim “cant mix religion and politics” concept of god is not the issue.

..the point is that raja rishi were the product of a society that was following the real sanatana dharma.. so let us follow dharma, without concocting some strange unions based on some concoction, and raja rishis will appear

 

their aim has not change they want to get rid of all other religion and establish Islam

..if someone promotes this idea with violence and illegality the police has the duty to punish him. Other considerations are useless

 

(.who "convert" to another religion is already not following the previous one.. so where's the loss)

it is quite obvious you do not care but we do

..the thing that i do not understand is what do you care for.. a non hindu is converted in a non hindu.. what's to care?