Guest guest Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 <<This is more of a political thread than a religious one.>> The famous Greek philosopher Plato once said, "the only victors in war are the dead". He is right, the on/off war and general rivalry between Indians and Pakistanis needs to stop. Would it not be so much more beneficial if the two countries learnt to co-operate peacefully? Both economies would certainly benefit. I dont see how religion can cause so much tension and bitterness either, after all, there are muslims living in India peacefully, and im sure Hindus in Pakistan. No one can argue that this is not possible because it was exactly how things were before the British Raj and partition. Before India became part of the British Empire, there was no Pakistan or Bangladesh, instead Muslims and Hindus lived peacefully side by side. Don't get me wrong, there is no problem with Pakistanis and Bangladeshis having their own countries, but the India/Pakistan conflict is a pointless one that need not be. Does Hinduism not teach Ahimsa? Violence is not the way, and the sooner it ends, the better. Azuric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 The India Pakistan thing has nothing to do with religion It regards land...nothing else... Here are the options for India: a) give up Kashmir - but Pakistan will not respect rights of Kashmiri Hindus to practice Hinduism... b) defend Kashmir from terrorists - which is what they are doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 no. ahimsa is not an absolute principle in hinduism. teh hindus acted cowardly and foolishly for a long time, not any more. unity of pak and india is desirable however. the soluton is this: pak and india is one vedic land. islam has invaded there forcibly. islam is not compatible with hinduism. (gandhi failed to understand this, and jinnah did not.) therefore, islam must be given up on the vedic land. any other solution to keep the incompatible islam on the vedic land would couse unrest and sufferings. the external enemies of india prefer to keep the divisions becaue they do not want us hindus to progress. they want us remain busy in fighting and remain behind. so they help the newborn (purposely created) baby countries around us hindus. we need to see our interest and act to achieve our goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuric Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Madaav your idea that islam must be ridden of in the "vedic land" is foolish. In case you are not already aware, there are followers of Islam peacefully living in India and have been for many hundreds of years. Hinduism teaches to be tolerant of all other religions. Your idea that external powers are involved in the partition deliberatly to harm Indian/Hindu progress is intreguing. Do you agree that the British purposly split India into India, Pakistan and Bangladesh how they did in the hope that future wars would always keep India weak? And if so, dont you think that instead we should co-operate and work together? Azuric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 "The India Pakistan thing has nothing to do with religion" Actually it has everything to do with religion esp Islam - that's the whole reason Pakistan was created in the first place! As an expansion of Islamic land, which is indeed a part of Islam - that they must try to bring the world to Islam and one of the ways is to make countires Islamic, not secular. There's no point trying to be an apologist, history is the witness. Jinnah wanted Pak as he didn't want Muslims to live with Hindus, he saw his opportunity when the British was leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 all land is God's land...none is islamic or hindu or anything else... stop attaching yourself to this illusion of proprietorship and ownership... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 "stop attaching yourself to this illusion of proprietorship and ownership" If all people had thought like you the whole of India would now be Pakistan and muslim. I think you need to get off your high horse and look at things realistically! Those who seek to appease make fools out of themselves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 then any person can enter your house/land and do anything he wants. agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 maadhavji is absolutely right BUT...there is a small problem. we can t just kick out the muslims. the solution (not the best) 1.India/ the vedic land needs better politicians. 2.In my view, Hinduism/sanatana dharma should be tought in school(in india). My cousins go in a christan school , so they celebrate christmas etc. but they don t even no anything about hinduism,eat meat and call them self hindu. the best solution is to teach hinduism. I also ate meta because I don t knew till i discoverd this site. It is very difficult to find "the truth" about hinduism. ------------------------ please don t be angry if i said anything wrong /images/graemlins/smile.gif ------------------------ hare krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 then any person can enter your house/land and do anything he wants. agree? i kick him away... but i do not mix it with religion or i go to his relatives or his village and punish them for the fault of the invader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted May 28, 2004 Report Share Posted May 28, 2004 << we can t just kick out the muslims. >> yes we can, if our sufficient efforts fail to convince them that a) islam is not compatible with hinduism, the dharm of the land, b) islam has invaded in india and does not belong there, c) their ancestors were hindus who were forcibly converted, and so, there is nothing wrong for them to quit islam, and d) we aleady have set aside a part of our counry now called pakistan. if they cannot give up islam in india, they would need to go live in pakistan or out of india. << the solution (not the best) 1.India/ the vedic land needs better politicians. 2.In my view, Hinduism/sanatana dharma should be tought in school(in india). >> I agree. << It is very difficult to find "the truth" about hinduism.>> not really. read gita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2004 Report Share Posted May 28, 2004 a) islam is not compatible with hinduism, the dharm of the land, all the world was once vedic, not only india, so do you want to send them to mars? b) islam has invaded in india and does not belong there, islam but not islamic people they are born max 70/80/90 years ago.. and they belong to india being born in it c) their ancestors were hindus who were forcibly converted, and so, there is nothing wrong for them to quit islam, and wich ancestors? you are speaking of centuries ago... and it is not even important, we are not this body, ancestors are ancestors of the body not of the person. You in your previous live may be muslim, christian, geova witness, buddhist, mayavadi, advaitin, atheist... what have you to do with your presents ancestors? d) we aleady have set aside a part of our counry now called pakistan. if they cannot give up islam in india, they would need to go live in pakistan or out of india. everyone has to be free to live where he wants... a nice thing would be that also in pakistan there would be religious freedom, so let us not india become like pakistan 1.India/ the vedic land needs better politicians. it is obvious... for now it is nice that hindu nationalists are defeated 2.In my view, Hinduism/sanatana dharma should be tought in school(in india). >> if you teach sanatana dharma all nationalism will go away and indians will never join your political ideas... so let us hope!! << It is very difficult to find "the truth" about hinduism.>> not really. read gita. it is actually difficult... the problem is when people interprete the gita to bend religion to their purposes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2004 Report Share Posted May 28, 2004 << It is very difficult to find "the truth" about hinduism.>> not really. read gita. sorry, my fault(i don t speak english very well). i mean , it is hard to find a guru or a person who can give you good advise ( except in india probably). Here in Europe , the always misinterpret it. and in islamic countries you can "forget" it to find a guru, (probably). thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted May 28, 2004 Report Share Posted May 28, 2004 you would need to take second birth (possibly in india in a true hindu family) to understand me, or tell that you understand me. others do understand what i say. and they do not feel any pain as you do by reading my posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2004 Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 you would need to take second birth (possibly in india in a true hindu family) to understand me, or tell that you understand me. --i would be very glad of it, but i hope more to go back to godhead. You must have simply more faith in your intelligence, if you say logic things you are surely able to explain them to me others do understand what i say. --i am not more intelligent than them and i not claim to be .. i simply make sincere objections, if you or the ones who understand can or want answer for mr is very nice.. india is the land of religious debates and exchanges and they do not feel any pain as you do by reading my posts. --it is not my fault.. when i hear you bending purposefully religion for some political purpose and to use the most peaceful marvellous philosophy of the world to build some fanatical and terrorist following i am extremely sorry and a little scared. I love india, i do not want to go there and find afghanistan or cecenia, with some "hindus" at the place of mullah, talibans and ayatollahs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted May 29, 2004 Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 << .. when i hear you bending purposefully religion for some political purpose >> in your mind 'political purpose' is something evil, something no one should think of, and just chant and dance instead. to me the 'political purpose' is that of pruthu, bharat, rama, krishna, vikram, bhoja, etc. in the strict and true sense politics is a way of living/deciding what rules we want in our society, whom we want to give power to rule our society. what rules/laws we want and do not want, etc. now every one who lives in a society is under a government and a political leader. each country has a government and politicians. this situation is never going away. it is a part of living if you are not living in jungles or caves or derserts or mountains. so, the need is to spiritualize this politics as was done by the vedic kings. so now tell me, which politician did you spiritualise? which of the HK goswami became a political leader? what if anything you did to remove corruption in a country? what did you do to awake the sleeping and deluded hindus whose rights and dharma is beeing washed away (or bootlegged and re-branded) from their own land by the minority anti-hindu invaded ideologies in india? what you think of 'democratic' decisions, god's word? what is your way of producing or influencing the spiritualized political leaders? what you know about islam and islam history and the history of india/hindus under the invaded islam? << and to use the most peaceful marvellous philosophy of the world to build some fanatical and terrorist following >> a 'fanatical hindu' is an oxymoron. but ahimsa is not an absolute principle in sahatana dharma. read gita and you will know it. if you say it is, then all the great kings who had armies and polices in the vedic times like janak, bharat, pruthu, rama, krishna, etc. were wasting their recources and were adarmis per yoru view. << i am extremely sorry and a little scared. I love india, i do not want to go there and find afghanistan or cecenia, with some "hindus" at the place of mullah, talibans and ayatollahs >> if you remain a krishna devotee, then people will touch you lotus feet in india if they are hindus. if hower the musims rule there, then they will salughter you in a thousand parts. a comparative study of islam and hinduism (sanatana dharma) by an unbiased human mind would show that these two are not compatible. a hindu (dove) and a muslim (hawk) cannnot live in peace together. they need to live far apart. gandhi failed to make the invaded hawks doves. he made teh doves totally cowards. when a lion cub is raised in the herd of sheeps, he thinks he also is a sheep for some time. this is the situation of the most hindus at this time. while some are trying to awake this hindus, some (islam lovers or hindu haters) resist it. so, basically, they say to the hindus, "you fool hindus, you have lived non violently since milleniunms, you have suffered grand genocide under islam for 1000 years. so now, why you think of fighting against the invaded indeolgies and the asursa? just remain coward, and never say a word against the adharma happeining in your own counry. stay coward and be happy. why your temples are bombed, chant and dance, play mridangas and cymbals. you even do not know what sanatana dharma is, we HK's know it. Jai! we have replaced gita by chaitanya charitamrita, and krishna by chaitanya. we even interpret gita as the book of absolute non violence. you have no right to interpet gita. it is our HK's monopoly to interpret gita. stay coward, and be merry!" is it fair to say so? is it dharma to say so? now about terrorism. you think it is just a police or military matter. the fact is it is not. it needs a kshatriya mind to understand this. kshatriyas read different material than you do. terrorism is an assymetic warfare by muslims/islam. read the book by anwar saikh, a born muslim, but with a good mind and intelligence who exposes islam to the world. islam cannot tolerate any non muslim ideology, including KC. so why you speak in favor of islam or muslims? KC has come to you from india. so then why you cannot feel happy about the hindus who kept KC alive for milleniums even under the brutal islam rules so that it could come to the hippies and their generations? what is the moral of samudra manthan story? if ben ladin and party are committed and united, what is bad about uniting against them? who shot a bamian buddha statue, hindus or the musmims? did any HK raise voice agains this adharm? has any hindu invaded in any counry? has any hindu converted other by force or enticement or lures? how has islam spread? do you know their strategy of making the whole world muslim? please give answers if you know. despite all this effort, i do not hope you will undestnad my point, but the discussion will help others to undersand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2004 Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 << .. when i hear you bending purposefully religion for some political purpose >> in your mind 'political purpose' is something evil, something no one should think of, and just chant and dance instead. ,,,from your answer i have understood that i am not wrong.... politic is not evil, something to avoid, something different from chant and dance (nice how you despise harinama) for krsna.. if it is done for krsna. Politic can be good and saint, but twist religion for politic, to say to the gurus what they have to teach because there's some political need, it is not saint politic like the one that arjuna or yudistira were making.. it is complete adharma and surely brings adharma as result which of the HK goswami became a political leader? ..a goswami is a brahmana, not a ksatrya.. so a saint leader has to be one who is a bhakta and who is disciple of that goswami (i do not make distinction between iskcon or other maths.. the important thing is that the master is a devotee, real devotee and that the disciple wants to learn, not to change) what is your way of producing or influencing the spiritualized political leaders? --madhaav you know everything or maybe you have more solution than me... i am only opposing you when you speak of change religion, of influencing religious leaders, of changing spiritual principles for what you tink it is good for politics. There's nothing bad in it, if you do not identify yourself in a religion... if you are athest, there's no problem, religion is a fake so there's nothing to learn from it... but if you claim to be a religious man, a vaishnava, a hindu, you have to recognize the preminence of religion on the matter.. and to recognize that religion is essentially to surrender to someone who will teach us to go back to godhead.. so surrender, practice seriously and you are an hindu, a vaishnava or whatever... vaishnava is who worships vishnu, not who want to adapt vishnu teachings to his purpose or pleasure . . but ahimsa is not an absolute principle in sahatana dharma. read gita and you will know it. --gita gives many instructions, some are general instructions, some are particular instructions given for time, place and circumstance. Arjuna was ordered to make war by his spiritual master, krsna... so if you want to follow the arjuna's example you cannot make war bypassing the first stage of listening from a spiritual guide. So your duty is not to fight as a ksatrya, commerce as a vaisha, work as a sudra or worship as a brahmana... your duty is to follow a spiritual guidance and listen from him what is your duty... following the example of arjuna who sits before krsna, his guru, and listens. , , , now about terrorism. you think it is just a police or military matter. the fact is it is not. it needs a kshatriya mind to understand this. kshatriyas read different material than you do. --it is exactly my point... ksatrya is the sanskrit name for police, army and politics/king/parliament... so they have to do their duty punishing the guilts, not that we have to build some theory using religion as a discrimination.. you have said it perfectly right,it is ksatrya's duty.. ksatrya is army, government and police... not you and me . . . islam cannot tolerate any non muslim ideology, including KC. so why you speak in favor of islam or muslims? --madhaav.. do not joke... . . . despite all this effort, i do not hope you will undestnad my point, --this is another reason why i do not approve your ideas... because you are not able to bear different opinions and you need to insult now i have answered to these few things, i think to have given the essence if what i think about this matter... please answer and if you want i can also say something about the other points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted May 29, 2004 Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 << << .. when i hear you bending purposefully religion for some political purpose >> in your mind 'political purpose' is something evil, something no one should think of, and just chant and dance instead. ,,,from your answer i have understood that i am not wrong.... politic is not evil, something to avoid, something different from chant and dance (nice how you despise harinama) for krsna.. if it is done for krsna. Politic can be good and saint, >> yes. << but twist religion for politic, >> being very serious about what krishna says, and becaue i love krisshna, i cannot twist his word. however you are free to think i do. if you think only you knowwht krishna has said, and others do not, then you an think, but others will act acccroding to their understanding of what krishna has said. sure krishna has said bhamti is best of all the yogas, but he has not forbitted any othe yoga. so there are other yogis beside bkahti yogis. they are just as good sanatana dharmis as you are. let them do their sandhana as they choose. << to say to the gurus what they have to teach because there's some political need, >> how may gurus you know who are like chanakya or dorna or kripa? no HK guru has any idea of what kshatriya art is and what kshatriya training is and curriculum is. no hk guru or even a hindu guru at this time knows how to raise kshatriya or train kshatriyas. so, as the asuras see, the society is without kshatriyas - full of cowards who know nothing about fighting. this gives them a free field to do adharma and rule over and convert or kill. if i see no qualified guru to train and raise kshatriya, tehn i must tell - callloud - that we need some. sure i will chant and danne with you, but not at this time of world terrorism. just remember that krishna did not do ras lila before killing all the rakshasas and asuras. when you get free time, a break in kshatriya work, then sure chant and dance. << it is not saint politic like the one that arjuna or yudistira were making.. it is complete adharma and surely brings adharma as result >> it is if you understand my point. killing asura or making the vedic land free from any asuric ideology is not adharma. the process of doing so has many non violent ways, but viilence is the last available dharmic way. those who follow dharma cannot bring adharma. if adhrma comes, they will fight. adhrma has come, and they willfight. which of the HK goswami became a political leader? <..a goswami is a brahmana, not a ksatrya.. >> if so, how can he train and raise kshatriyas? if what you say is vaid, then chanakya wasted his life. he was a brahmana, but when insulted in public, he becake a kshatriya for some time and finished his job of eradicting asura - the nanda dynasty. he took a vow to do s, and he did it. has any hk or hindu guru taken a vow to eradict terrorism or corruption from the vedic land? drona trained asuras and asuras both, and unfortunatley he sided with asuras in the war. but we need dronas who side with the suras. << so a saint leader has to be one who is a bhakta and who is disciple of that goswami (i do not make distinction between iskcon or other maths.. the important thing is that the master is a devotee, real devotee and that the disciple wants to learn, not to change) >> so he will not have any knowledge or skills of a kshatriya. sure, people like myself will shout - we need dronas and chanakyas. what is your way of producing or influencing the spiritualized political leaders? --madhaav you know everything or maybe you have more solution than me... i am only opposing you when you speak of change religion, of influencing religious leaders, >> i answered it above why i do so. << of changing spiritual principles >> no, never. the principle is already there. you need to pick a right avatar to follow appropriat to the time and situation. chantianya's message/mission is not to raise kshatriyas. krishna's is. << for what you tink it is good for politics. >> yes it is - for vedic politics, nto dirty politics. <<There's nothing bad in it, if you do not identify your self in a religion... >> the life of a sanatana dharmi is nothing but living by dharma each moment of life. so, hindus need to fight per dharma when the asuras are killing them doing adharma. << if you are athest, there's no problem, religion is a fake so there's nothing to learn from it... >> you know i am not. << but if you claim to be a religious man, a vaishnava, a hindu, you have to recognize the preminence of religion on the matter.. >> yes i do, as i said above. << and to recognize that religion is essentially to surrender to someone who will teach us to go back to godhead..>> i am surrendered. i have come here from the godhead to wake up the sleeping hindus. i do not mind coming here in india for a few lives till the job is done. i am not that selfish - greedy - for vainkuntha when there is adhrama happening on the vedic land. that is the only land left for the vedic people now. << so surrender, practice seriously and you are an hindu, a vaishnava or whatever... vaishnava is who worships vishnu, not who want to adapt vishnu teachings to his purpose or pleasure >> a vaishnav lives by vishnu/krishna's words. i know you say that only arjun has the right to follow krishna's message, and because i am not arjun-clone, i have no right. if this is the case, then gita is useless for any one. the fact is that gita has guided people of all the times in all the circumstances. guru, sadhu, and shastra all these are for guiding us. so follow gita at this time. but ahimsa is not an absolute principle in sahatana dharma. read gita and you will know it. << --gita gives many instructions, some are general instructions, some are particular instructions given for time, place and circumstance. Arjuna was ordered to make war by his spiritual master, krsna... so if you want to follow the arjuna's example you cannot make war bypassing the first stage of listening from a spiritual guide. >> i have guideance. gita. your difficulty is that you think only your guru has the monopoly to become a guru. or only an hk has the nonopoly to become a guru. or perhaps you your self are an hk guru and fear that my writings will divert them from you. << So your duty is not to fight as a ksatrya, commerce as a vaisha, work as a sudra or worship as a brahmana... >> worship and guide per dhrma and train to do what the time rrequires. in emergency times, any one can invoke any varna's dharma. e.g. if an asura wants to rape your wife or daughter and you know no help will be coming in time to stop him, then no matter what varna you are, you need to fight to win. it then does not matter if you are killed. just imagine your self saying at such time like, "oh i am a barhmana. i cannot become angry at this asura who will soon will rape my mother daughter or wife or sister. so i will just chant and dance while he rapes in front of me. i would rather read chaitanya charitamrita before him. then i will go in town and file a complaint. then the kshatriyas will find the asura and punish. i am of satvic guna, and i cannot get angry. asura is as good as sura to me. i am sama darshi." your messages indicate that that is how you would act. sorry, hindus cannot act like that. a hindu will sarifice his life fighting to save your loved one from being raped. [once the soldeirs of a hindu saintly king shivaji (in the time just befor british came in india) fought auramzeb's commader- defeaed him and captured his wife and brougth her to shivaji as a booty. immediatley chastised them, and said to the muslim women, "dear mother, forgive me. my soldierd erred." then he escorted her back to the defeated commader with ful respect and honor to the woman. this is hinduism to me. even when prabhupada says, "we hks' are not hindus" he says this about the hindus: a man A took a lot of time and effort to bind man B. when he found him, he said to B, "dear A, my father had a large debt with you. here is all the money he owed you. he is dead now, but it is my duty to free him of the debt. that is hinduism - sanatana dharma/ vedic culture." now about terrorism. you think it is just a police or military matter. the fact is it is not. it needs a kshatriya mind to understand this. kshatriyas read different material than you do. << --it is exactly my point... ksatrya is the sanskrit name for police, army and politics/king/parliament... so they have to do their duty punishing the guilts, not that we have to build some theory using religion as a discrimination.. you have said it perfectly right,it is ksatrya's duty.. ksatrya is army, government and police... not you and me >> yes, you and me and all. i also have said that in emergency (terrorism war time) any one can and should invoke kkshatriya spirit and fight in a variety of ways - many ways are non violent. islam cannot tolerate any non muslim ideology, including KC. so why you speak in favor of islam or muslims? << --madhaav.. do not joke...>> ok, i erred. i meant to say, "why you keep silent of them, the barbaric invaders? why you preach the victims of them - us hindus?" despite all this effort, i do not hope you will undestnad my point, << --this is another reason why i do not approve your ideas... because you are not able to bear different opinions >> let us say i have invoked kshatriya spirit. being so, if any one tells to not fight asuras, then i have to speak up. my effor tis t unite, nto divide. the asuras want to divide us. so any one who trys to divide us, is not helping suras, but helps asuras. << and you need to insult >> not really. i just tell the truth as i know. but you being a uttama adhikari brahmana, you cannot feel insult no matter what i say. right? << now i have answered to these few things, i think to have given the essence if what i think about this matter... please answer >> i did. << and if you want i can also say something about the other points >> tell me other points about making india free from the invaded ideologies. tell me how to remove corruption from india. tell me who are the gurus like chanakya or dorna. or how to raise them. tell me how every indian can fight asuras - islam terrorism. oh, am i narrow minded becaue i am thinking of india only? if you think so, then you would be narrow minded too if you think of you family and home first. what is the sphere of your influence? your self only? or you family only? or your neighborhood only? or your congratation only? or you dont care any of them and just care for vainkuntha? remember, unity begins with one link at a time. when the enemy is united and commited, we the suras need to commit and unite. else we cannot win, dharma cannot win, suras cannto win. come, unite. make the vedic land free from adharmis and invader ideologies. then let us chant and dance. we - hindus and hk's - are not (or ought not to be0 like nero who was dancing while rome was burning. 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Guest guest Posted May 29, 2004 Report Share Posted May 29, 2004 being very serious about what krishna says, and becaue i love krisshna, i cannot twist his word. --you have said that spiritual masters has to stop teaching devotion and start to teach to fight........ who is teaching? you to devotion or devotion to you? let them do their sandhana as they choose. ---we are not speaking of sadhana... in every path you chose, you have to sit humbly and listen to a master.. not try to impose some political ideas on religion no HK guru has any idea of what kshatriya art is and what kshatriya training is and curriculum is. no hk guru or even a hindu guru at this time knows how to raise kshatriya or train kshatriyas. --so you want to be the next ksatrya acharya, the new drona leading all the hindus in the new kuruksetra? are you prophetized in some puranas? are you god or a representative uttama adhikari? actually there's no need... krsna is not a war teacher, he says simply to arjuna to make his duty and to offer this duty to krsna.. if you have a ksatrya spirit, go in the police or army, do well your job, and if you chant hare krsna surrendered to a spiritual master you wil go back to godhead again.. do not mix... religion is religion, mundane politic is mundane politic . . killing asura or making the vedic land free from any asuric ideology is not adharma. --again... dharma is to follow a spiritual master, do a sadhana and act to go back to godhead.... other activities are done by guna and karma, if you're a policeman you will fight crime, if you are a cook you will cook chapati, if you are a brahmin you will worship... so, again, do not mix and connect first with god bthrough a spiritual guidance... in spirituality the "do it yourself" is adharma even if externally you do the most marvellous things , . <..a goswami is a brahmana, not a ksatrya.. >> if so, how can he train and raise kshatriyas? --because policemen are instructed by their instructors and soldiers are instructed by sergeants, colonels, generals and so on... do not mix religion, if you are a policemen do your job and stop the crime, if you are not... do not mix religion . . . chantianya's message/mission is not to raise kshatriyas. krishna's is. ...you are completely wrong, krsna never instructs anyone about his karmic activity. The message of gita is not: "kill..." the message of gita is "offer your life to me.....". So if your life is as ksatrya offer your ksatrya's life, if your life is as sudra, offero your sudra's life and so on. Chaitanya is the same thing. So if you are a soldier, politic or policemen offer your life to krsna, chaitanya, vishnu, siva, brahman or whatever... if you are not.. do not twist religion saying that everyone has to leave his duty to make the ksatrya this if you are religious, if you are an atheist you can say what you want without bothering yourself with gita, vedas , mahabharata and so on . . << for what you tink it is good for politics. >> yes it is - for vedic politics, nto dirty politics. ....vedic politic is done by vedic men.. vedic men are religious surrendered to a bona fide guru and following his instructions and sadhana. So if you are vedic, you have to follow dharma, not to try to make dharma following you . . << if you are athest, there's no problem, religion is a fake so there's nothing to learn from it... >> you know i am not. ...you are obstinately and continously criticizing religion... so i am not so sure . . . i have come here from the godhead to wake up the sleeping hindus. ...YADA YADA HI DHARMASYA??? ,,, ARE YOU AN AVATARA? m a d h a a v? do not say silly things!! you are a common human came here from innumerable lifes of suffering in this material world. your duty is to realize your self . . . a vaishnav lives by vishnu/krishna's words --so offer yourself to vishnu and do not try to twist his teaching . . . i know you say that only arjun has the right to follow krishna's message, ...arjuna has to follow the krsna's message to surrender to Him.. we have also to follow this message. Who is warrior will surrender following a warrior's life, who's brahmana will surrender following a brahmana's life. If they do the opposite it is adharma . . the fact is that gita has guided people of all the times in all the circumstances. guru, sadhu, and shastra all these are for guiding us. so follow gita at this time. ...so follow the example of arjuna and surrender to a guide as arjuna have done... surrendering is not imitating or cloning.. arjuna has his duties and you have yours, both you and arjuna have the duty to surrender to a bona fide spiritual master. So imitate arjuna in this before speaking of battles and wars . . . have guideance. gita. your difficulty is that you think only your guru has the monopoly to become a guru. ...i do not care in this moment of wich gidance you want to choose if it is a valid one... the important thing is that you have to follow the principle of surrendering, not to make religion surender to your theories . . "oh i am a barhmana. i cannot become angry at this asura who will soon will rape my mother daughter or wife or sister. so i will just chant and dance while he rapes in front of me. i would rather read chaitanya charitamrita before him. ...this is simply stupid, and no one is saying something like that. You are the only one saying that chaitanya charitamrita (that you have never read) says that people has to avoid their duties and became all brahmanas. This is your serious misconception. . . . now about terrorism. you think it is just a police or military matter. the fact is it is not. it needs a kshatriya mind to understand this. kshatriyas read different material than you do. ...again with ths sign of ignorance... ksatrya is the sanskrit word for politics, soldiers, policemen.... are you policemen? fight the crime!! do not call other people doing your duties . .. ok, i erred. i meant to say, "why you keep silent of them, the barbaric invaders? why you preach the victims of them - us hindus?" ..i am not preaching to hindus, even if you think to be the avatara, representative of krsna and all hindus and i am not contrary to any good proposal to solve the problem..... i only do not like to see religion mixed with these matters... are there criminals? fight crminals!! do not bother religion, gurus, maths, gods, goddesses, sastras and so on . .. but you being a uttama adhikari brahmana, you cannot feel insult no matter what i say. right? ..the problem is that i am not.. so i do not like them too much... but it is not a big problem for me, i am able to argue and i do not even imagine to say that if you do not agree with me it is because you do not understand . . tell me other points about making india free from the invaded ideologies. ...that you have not to free anything.. start to practice the right ideology and all the mistakes will automatically go away. Because if you are a ksatrya but you have not understood properly what is dharma and what is not dharma... even if you believe to spread or restaurate dharma your are doing a biggest adharma . . tell me how every indian can fight asuras - islam terrorism. ...vote a good government . . oh, am i narrow minded becaue i am thinking of india only? ...no you are not so aware about what is dharma and what's adharma because you have your selfimposed idea and you do not want to follow any guide... and we are speaking of the basics, not esoteric matters . . we the suras need to commit and unite. ..are we sure to be the suras and not the asuras? . . make the vedic land free from adharmis and invader ideologies. then let us chant ..if you stop the spreading of the lord's name there will never be any dharma.. you cannot restaurate religion destroying it. If you kill some muslim asuras to put at their place some "hindus" asuras .. what's the advantage? (sura=saint... asura=not saint) , ,, we - hindus and hk's - are not (or ought not to be0 like nero who was dancing while rome was burning. ..provided that you are not the next nero that, with other neros, will burn india Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 your above subject title indicated you advocate teh separation of church and state. what you say about islam where there is no separation at all? do you know that democracy is illegal per koran? what you do about these? << << --you have said that spiritual masters has to stop teaching devotion and start to teach to fight...>> yes, such teachers are needed. it is too bad you can not understand it. and devotion - do as krishna says - does lead to kshatriya dharma also, but most totally ignore it. <<---we are not speaking of sadhana... in every path you chose, you have to sit humbly and listen to a master..>> and if the master has no knowledge of what the asuras are doing, what teh asura's strtegy is, what is our vedic interest, and the art of kshatriya dharma, then his/her teaching cannot solve terrorism or the vedic interests. no HK guru has any idea of what kshatriya art is and what kshatriya training is and curriculum is. no hk guru or even a hindu guru at this time knows how to raise kshatriya or train kshatriyas. <<--so you want to be the next ksatrya acharya, the new drona leading all the hindus in the new kuruksetra? >> either they wake up, act as krishna has said, or loose the vedic land and freedom and culture to the invaded ideologies in india. << are you prophetized in some puranas? >> are you? no. and still you exist. and so do i. << are you god >> no. << or a representative uttama adhikari? >> let the world figure. krishna knows me, and i am happy about it. <<... krsna is not a war teacher, he says simply to arjuna to make his duty and to offer this duty to krsna.. >> krishna teaches everything, including how or when to fight. << if you have a ksatrya spirit, >> i see that you have it, and so you keep debating without getting my point. i am only requesting you to debate with the wahabis and ben ladins, and prove to them and the world that islam has no need to exist. that would be your ksnatriya work. why wast time with the hindus? pakistan also is the vedic land but in the hands of asuras. is that fact not giving you any pain or sorrow? << go in the police or army, do well your job, >> and i am requeting you to do your job as an intellectual kshatriya and exposoe the barbaric ideologyof islam to the world. the other point is that you assume that the current gov. or military/police is perfectly dharmic (spiritual) and good to follow. please check the validity of this assumption and comment. << and if you chant hare krsna surrendered to a spiritual master you wil go back to godhead >> i am surrenderd and i do, but want to take a few births here to fix the problems before going back again. << mundane politic is mundane politic >> and you (a goswami, or the hk goswmis) have no conrol or interest to transform the mundane politics into a divine politics? do you think that by telling that politic is dirty and bad, and politicians are crooks, you and the HK goswamis will cause of flood of the politicians to come to their lotus feet and surrender and become chanakyas? killing asura or making the vedic land free from any asuric ideology is not adharma. <<--again... dharma is to follow a spiritual master, >> yes. << do a sadhana and act to go back to godhead.... >> sure will go again, but am notin a hurry when i see problems here in the land of krishna. << <..a goswami is a brahmana, not a ksatrya.. >> if so, how can he train and raise kshatriyas? <<--because policemen are instructed by their instructors and soldiers are instructed by sergeants, colonels, generals and so on... >> andy why you think these instructors are dharmic or taking orders from dharmics? chantianya's message/mission is not to raise kshatriyas. krishna's is. <<...you are completely wrong, >> you are feee to think so. among other thigns, the mesage of gita is that in this world wars (conflicts armed or unarmed) cannot be avoided. so, one has to fight per dharma. to not fight or side the asras is adharma. to fight violently is the last step if all else fails. << for what you tink it is good for politics. >> yes it is - for vedic politics, nto dirty politics. <<....vedic politic is done by vedic men.. vedic men are religious surrendered to a bona fide guru and following his instructions and sadhana. >> tell me who politiciain or kshatriya in india is such a man/woman? << if you are athest, there's no problem, religion is a fake so there's nothing to learn from it... >> you know i am not. <<...you are obstinately and continously criticizing religion... >> no. i am showing that it is dharma to fight and win over the asuras, and teh priority now is to fight in any possible way. <<...YADA YADA HI DHARMASYA??? ,,, ARE YOU AN AVATARA? >> no. i do not like to passively wait for an avatar. i act and want others to act. the guidance is already there in gita. vainkuntha is not new to me or you. << your duty is to realize your self >> sure, but to not do anything about the problems in the veidc land is not right. a vaishnav lives by vishnu/krishna's words <<--so offer yourself to vishnu and do not try to twist his teaching >> you just think i am twisting. i know you say that only arjun has the right to follow krishna's message, <<...arjuna has to follow the krsna's message to surrender to Him.. we have also to follow this message. Who is warrior will surrender following a warrior's life, who's brahmana will surrender following a brahmana's life. >> in the time of global terorism by the brbric idology every one needs to fight in any possibel way. else the asurs will win. the fact is that gita has guided people of all the times in all the circumstances. guru, sadhu, and shastra all these are for guiding us. so follow gita at this time. <<...so follow the example of arjuna and surrender to a guide as arjuna have done...>> where are dronas and chanakyas to surrender to? have guideance. gita. your difficulty is that you think only your guru has the monopoly to become a guru. <<...i do not care in this moment of wich gidance you want to choose if it is a valid one... >> and i care. the time demands action and guidance to fight adharma and adharmis. guidance to dance is not important at this time. "oh i am a barhmana. i cannot become angry at this asura who will soon will rape my mother daughter or wife or sister. so i will just chant and dance while he rapes in front of me. i would rather read chaitanya charitamrita before him. <<...this is simply stupid, and no one is saying something like that. >> then realize what is the priority of the time. now about terrorism. you think it is just a police or military matter. the fact is it is not. it needs a kshatriya mind to understand this. kshatriyas read different material than you do. << do not call other people doing your duties >> i remind people that at this time all need to fight and it is dharma to do so. << ..and i am not contrary to any good proposal to solve the problem.....>> so tell me what solutions you propose? just chanting and dancing, and surrendering to a guru who does not know anything about the enemy ideology or has no knowledge of kshatriya science or art cannot help. << i only do not like to see religion mixed with these matters... >> there is no mixing, but showing what dharma is. and calling to live by the dharma of the time. .. but you being a uttama adhikari brahmana, you cannot feel insult no matter what i say. right? <<..the problem is that i am not.. >> so then let your guru goswami discuss the matter here. certainly he can do better. my hare krishna to him. . . tell me other points about making india free from the invaded ideologies. <<...that you have not to free anything.. >> sorry, i am not that self centered to go to vainkuntha. in contrast to what you said, some hk goswamis talk of 'saving the world'. i am saying good, first save india, the vedic land. tell me how every indian can fight asuras - islam terrorism. <<...vote a good government >> so you think democracy is 'god's word?' how many goswamis or their disciples stand for a position for election? do any hk's guide people as to whom to vote or not vote? do you what is kranti and when it is needed? <<...no you are not so aware about what is dharma and what's adharma >> after suffering for 1000 years from islam and british we do not know what is dharma aand adharma, and the hippies born in the west suddenly realized what is our dharma in india? << because you have your selfimposed idea and you do not want to follow any guide...>> to speak of india the veidc land and vedic interests is self centered? thank. we the suras need to commit and unite. <<..are we sure to be the suras and not the asuras? >> if you have doubt, stay out. make the vedic land free from adharmis and invader ideologies. then let us chant <<..if you stop the spreading of the lord's name there will never be any dharma.. >> spreading the name is just one thing among other importnt things. name spreading is not "the only way." <<you cannot restaurate religion destroying it. >> i agree. << If you kill some muslim asuras to put at their place some "hindus" asuras .. what's the advantage? >> nothing, and so that is not my effort. we - hindus and hk's - are not (or ought not to be0 like nero who was dancing while rome was burning. << ..provided that you are not the next nero that, with other neros, will burn india >> not india, but the asuric ideologies invaded in india. also the malpractice of dharma. 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Guest guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 your above subject title indicated you advocate teh separation of church and state. ...of course... brahmana is a class, ksatrya is another class what you say about islam where there is no separation at all? ...adharma << --you have said that spiritual masters has to stop teaching devotion and start to teach to fight...>> yes, such teachers are needed. ...this is adharma... you are creating a new religion so do not speak more of hinduism or vaishnavism, speak of madhaavism do as krishna says - does lead to kshatriya dharma also ...wrong... krsna wants that we serve through our own duty, not everyone through ksatrya's duty and if the master has no knowledge of what the asuras are doing ...so this master is not a perfect master... are you saying that in hinduism or vaishnavism there's no real and competent masters? so became muslim, they mix freely war and religion, you will be satisfied with them no HK guru has any idea of what kshatriya art is and what kshatriya training is ...became a militar or a policemen... if you will do these jobs without practicing spirituality you will be a materialist and you will take huge karma from them, if you take shelter in a spiritual master and practice your sadhana these activities will turn in yoga and devotion. Police chief or the colonel will teach you the job, the guru will teach you the devotion.... do.. not...mix..!! << are you prophetized in some puranas? >> are you? no. and still you exist. and so do i. ...so you are a little man like me... do not attempt to be superior to the others and search the knowledge <<... krsna is not a war teacher, he says simply to arjuna to make his duty and to offer this duty to krsna.. >> krishna teaches everything, including how or when to fight. ...so learn by krsna and his representatives and do not attempt to put yourself at their place is that fact not giving you any pain or sorrow? ...i do not want to substitute an adharma with another adharma << go in the police or army, do well your job, >> and i am requeting you to do your job as an intellectual kshatriya and exposoe the barbaric ideologyof islam to the world. ...barbaric ideologies are automatcally exposed when the real philosophies are spreaded.. so preach the right philosophy and do not try to twist it the other point is that you assume that the current gov. or military/police is perfectly dharmic (spiritual) and good to follow ..who said it? i am surrenderd and i do, but want to take a few births here to fix the problems before going back again. ..if you were surrendered you were thinking of krsna, not of muslims......be very careful.. it is not assured that your next life will be a hindu.. nor human and you (a goswami, or the hk goswmis) have no conrol or interest to transform the mundane politics into a divine politics? ...so be a politic and take shelter in spirituality.. in this way your politic will be spiritual. To twist the teaching of krsna and of the masters is the recipe to have an adharmic politic. As you have said to mix spirituality and politic is a mistake (adharma) made by muslims o you think that by telling that politic is dirty and bad, and politicians are crooks, ...not my opinion, i have already said it killing asura or making the vedic land free from any asuric ideology is not adharma. ...adharma is to follow your karma and offering it to krsna turning it in yoga by taking shelter in a pure spiritual master and doing sadhana. Everyone has his duty, not that everyone has one duty. When there was kuruksetra not everyone was a soldier << do a sadhana and act to go back to godhead.... >> sure will go again, but am notin a hurry when i see problems here in the land of krishna. ...if you are not in a hurry, you are not doing any sadhana and you are not developing devotion <..a goswami is a brahmana, not a ksatrya.. >> if so, how can he train and raise kshatriyas? ..ksatryas are trained by police chief and military instructors <<--because policemen are instructed by their instructors and soldiers are instructed by sergeants, colonels, generals and so on... >> andy why you think these instructors are dharmic or taking orders from dharmics? ...so be a policeman and learn the job, then go to the master and learn the devotion chantianya's message/mission is not to raise kshatriyas. krishna's is. <<...you are completely wrong, >> you are feee to think so. among other thigns, the mesage of gita is that in this world wars (conflicts armed or unarmed) cannot be avoided. .....this is evil... the message of gita is not of war, the message of gita is that we have to do our duty given by guna and karma (that's krsna in the form of the material energy) and we have to offer ourselves with our karma and our guna to him. Your attempt to say that the everyone's duty is to fight is evil <<....vedic politic is done by vedic men.. vedic men are religious surrendered to a bona fide guru and following his instructions and sadhana. >> tell me who politiciain or kshatriya in india is such a man/woman? ....start your self... you have so many solutions, surrender to a spiritual master and go in politics <<...you are obstinately and continously criticizing religion... >> no. i am showing that it is dharma to fight and win over the asuras, and teh priority now is to fight in any possible way. ...if you criticize obstinately in this way all dharmic religious establishment and tradition you are god or you are a fool << your duty is to realize your self >> sure, but to not do anything about the problems in the veidc land is not right. ...if you do not do something for your self you cannot do anything for other's self... first take realization, or at least start the process, than yu can think to do something for others.... first learn the cure, then give it to others <<...so follow the example of arjuna and surrender to a guide as arjuna have done...>> where are dronas and chanakyas to surrender to? ...arjuna has surrendered to krsna... gita is krsna who acts as a spiritual master for arjuna, there's no drona in the gita << ..and i am not contrary to any good proposal to solve the problem.....>> so tell me what solutions you propose? just chanting and dancing, and surrendering to a guru ...go in police or in politic and do your job... and if you want that your job turns from karma to dharma accept spiritual guidance << i only do not like to see religion mixed with these matters... >> there is no mixing, but showing what dharma is. ...you do not know how to be a disciple, how can you teach others? <<..the problem is that i am not.. >> so then let your guru goswami discuss the matter here. certainly he can do better. my hare krishna to him. ...are you an uttama adhikari to need to talk only with your peers? do you want to offend directly also gurus and acharyas? <<...that you have not to free anything.. >> sorry, i am not that self centered to go to vainkuntha. ...so you cannot give any remedy to anyone <<...vote a good government >> so you think democracy is 'god's word?' ...so make monarchy... but do not mix religion, do not twist religion... or say openly that you are an atheist how many goswamis or their disciples stand for a position for election? do any hk's guide people as to whom to vote or not vote? ...so be one of them... if your karma is to be a ksatrya do like arjuna... accept guidance, then do your duty for krsna. The duty of spiritual leaders is not the one to teach guns and swords.. so be a militar, a politician , a policeman and accept spiritual guidance.... job is a thing, spirit is another. Krsna does not teach military art or strategy to arjuna, krsna teachs "surrender to me...". So do not pretend that spiritual teachers teach to kill or fight. <<...no you are not so aware about what is dharma and what's adharma >> after suffering for 1000 years from islam and british we do not know what is dharma aand adharma, and the hippies born in the west suddenly realized what is our dharma in india? ...you are not 1000years old, i am not 1000years old (and i am not hippy)... maybe in your past life you were a fanatic muslim, now you are a fanatic "hindu" to balance. If you know adharma you have to demonstrate it with philosophy and behaviour, not by birth.... birth has no value <<..are we sure to be the suras and not the asuras? >> if you have doubt, stay out. ...i have also doubts on you... do you accept the advice to stay out and learn something before talk of religion? make the vedic land free from adharmis and invader ideologies. then let us chant ...i see that you are continously sarcastic, sceptic and critic against god's name <<..if you stop the spreading of the lord's name there will never be any dharma.. >> spreading the name is just one thing among other importnt things. name spreading is not "the only way." ...this definites your atheism << ..provided that you are not the next nero that, with other neros, will burn india >> not india, but the asuric ideologies invaded in india. also the malpractice of dharma. ....so practice dharma if you want to know what's malpractice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 it is already mixed - one. i am just showing it as it is. << i only do not like to see religion mixed with these matters... >> there is no mixing, but showing what dharma is. <<...you do not know how to be a disciple, how can you teach others? >> although i have a guru, i am looking for gurus like chanakya and drona and kripa, and guru govindasingh. seeing your nature and attitude from your post, you would not like such gurus. you think only gaudia vaishnavas have the right to be gurus. m k gandhi, was not a mahatma as you know, and still thousands accepted him as guru even when he had no guru. and what did he accomplish as the guru? partition of india, permanent enemy at the border and within also, and seemingly weaponless but corrupt politicians who do not care for the majority hindus or the vedic dharma. so, i see nothing wrong in telling the hindus something better than him, something that can slove the problems he created. i have to tell the truth as i know. this world is such that no matter what position you take - whatever solution you propose, there always will be some who would oppose you. so i do not worry about it. i have to carry on. dharma includes everything - all yogas. it has all kinds of solutions for peace, and the last means to peace is war. war is not a no no in hinduism as it is in jainism. buddhism advocated ahimsa, but buddhist monks are deadly fighteres without any weapon. unfortunatley they cannot survice guns. as a result every buddhist country of the world has military and police armed with guns amd missiles. this shows wht is lackingin buddhism. in hinduism nothing lacks. it just happened that for a long time hindus foolishly chose to play like cowards. not any more. now this change seems painful for you, but the barbaric violent culture does violence all over the world, and you dont say a hoot about it. so, your message is "hindus, you always have acted like cowards. so now you cannot give up cowardice. be coward. never raise any voice against any asura. that is dharma for you." and you say it by the words - "don't mix". sorry, the hindus cannot live like that any more. when the tornndao of tsunami comes, please stay out of its way. mira bai has sung: ghayal ki gata ghayal jaane aura na jaane koi sakhi ri. the non hindus cannot understnad hindus' pain and problems fully or correctly. so they cannot propose right soutions for them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 seeing your nature and attitude from your post, you would not like such gurus. you think only gaudia vaishnavas have the right to be gurus. ••it is not my problem the only thing that i say is that your obstinate claim to annihilate the varna system and from now everyone has to be a ksatrya is stupid and irreligious so if you are a ksatrya or a vaisha or a sudra or a brahmin it does not matter, these designations belong to your karma and guna, you do your sadhana then do your duty in the society your claim that gaudya vaishnavas have to stop chanting because they produce only brahmins is stupid and ignorant because the 99.9999% of the gaudyas in the world is not a brahmin.. they chant hare krsna in meditation everyday and maybe, in mahotsavas or, at most, once in a week go chanting publicly so stop to say that chaitanya mahaprabhu has to be put aside, because, in this way, you show only ignorance of how the things are going on. In gaudya vaishnavas there's many policemen and militars, also a number of devotees who are doing their job of soldiers in afghanistan or iraq and their following chaitanya mahaprabhu is absolutely ortodox and does not make them less weak as soldiers krishna in the gita has not said that everyone in that moment in the world had to fight for kuruksetra, only ksatryas were fighting and the remaining society was doing their respective karma. Brahmins were brahmins, vaishna were vaishas, sudras were sudras. if you think that now we are in a moment when someone of the other class, for emergence, has to do the duty of another.. i have no problem, you demonstate it, we discuss, and if you convince me i help you in your goal. But if you say that some spiritual practice has to be put aside for this purpose, and if you misrepresent the movement of chaitanya mahaprabhu, my duty is to answer and expose your lack of information and your great amount of speculation so do not say more that if chaitanya mahaprabhu is put aside, more people will join your cause.. chaitanya mahaprabhu has nothing to do with some materialist pacifist, mahaprabhu has nothing to do with gandhi, if you want to discuss mahaprabhu study him carefully haribol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadhav Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 you are readin more in my posts than i wrote, or perhaps my vocabulary or style has some limit, or your mind has some filters and modifiers. why not ask krishna what i mean. he will tell. if you cannot talk to him now, then talk to him when you go to vainkuntha. i think for you the way is just chant and be happy. dont worry, we will fix our problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 you are readin more in my posts than i wrote, or perhaps my vocabulary or style has some limit, or your mind has some filters and modifiers. •••being in the material world we are not perfect why not ask krishna what i mean. he will tell. •••it is very easy, krsna in the gita wants that everyone offer his gunas and karma to krsna, surrendering. If one's ksatrya will offer his ksatrya's job, if one's sudra he will offer his being sudra... no mixing, mixing duties is mostly irreligious i think for you the way is just chant and be happy. dont worry, we will fix our problems. •••you think and speculate too much.. first see the things how they are really going, then have your idea.... not the opposite. Ksatryas are very clever and intelligent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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