off topic...this can't be true

[Guest guest]

> Don't forget Metallica :-)

>

> BB

> Peter

 

I forgot Metallica as of 1991.

 

Chris X

[Guest guest]

>I would be really happy if everyone was vegan, Pagan and metal

>lovers, but just cannot find people (other than my three specials)

>who have all of those interests.

 

*raises hand*

 

Chris X

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

 

> I forgot Metallica as of 1991.

 

Probably a good move! :-)

 

BB

Peter

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Angie

 

I think that is the trouble. If a person wanted to be veggie or vegan they

already will be. If you try to change them and show your contempt for them,

you lose the chance of befriending them. You can imagine how you would feel

if you met someone and they started to try to change your eating habits. I

like mixing with people, so as long as I live up to my own ideals, I am

happy. Maybe if they see me as a nice, friendly, intelligent (!) person,

they may eventually follow my lead, and if not, I have not lost anything.

 

I always try to value humans and animals alike. I am not keen on the idea

that humans are better than animals, or that animals are better than humans.

Such views are unbalanced.

 

Jo

 

--

" All truth passes through 3 stages.

First, it is ridiculed.

Second, it is violently opposed.

Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. "

- Arthur Schopenhauer

 

-

" Angie Wright " <angiewright

 

Friday, March 01, 2002 10:37 PM

Re: Re: off topic...this can't be true

 

 

> What you say makes sense but I cannot truely like some one who eats

> animals I feel a kind of contempt for them if I have discussed it with

them

> and they are not going to change . I find that I am out to convert (so

that

> animal lives will be saved ). I feel the same about animal eaters as I

would

> about rapists etc I couldn't have a rapist for a friend . I would not feel

> comfortable with either of them

>

> Angie

>

> -

> " dmressel " <dmressel

>

> Friday, March 01, 2002 5:52 PM

> Re: off topic...this can't be true

>

>

> > I agree with Jo. Even though I'm vegan, that doesn't mean that's the

> > only thing I care about! I have plenty of outside interests and I

> > care more about the person inside than what they eat. It would be

> > *nice* to have vegan or vegetarian friends besides my boyfriend.

> > However, I've met many at various functions and never really cliqued

> > with any of them.

> >

> > Also, if I am to exclude meat-eating people from being my friends,

> > how am I to set a good example and spread the word? I truly believe

> > in living by example - not by preaching. I respect my friends'

> > decisions and they respect mine - and I've gotten many of my friends

> > to eat less meat. I have at least 3 friends that will eat a black

> > bean burger or a boca burger over a hamburger because of my

> > influences. I can't say I've " converted " anyone, but veganism is not

> > a religion and I'm not out to " convert " people anyway. If they agree

> > with my philosophies, they will begin to change in their own time.

> >

> > To each his own, I guess - but I'm not going to turn down a

> > friendship with someone I truly like because they eat meat.

> >

> > ~ Dawn

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Angie

 

Yes, I think you get the same sort of camraderie (?sp) at politcal demonstrations/marches. Very exhilerating!

 

Jo

 

 

I don't share interests with my vegan friends either ,(age differences ) but we do stalls together and AR Demos. They are good company But I don't socialise( in the normal meaning of the word ) with them . Demos are a form of socialising that omnivores probably never experience (unless political etc

 

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[Guest guest]

Angie

 

>>I would be interested in knowing more about paganism . One of our veg/vegan >>social group members is a wiccan. Its the same thing isn't it ? Is there a >>website . ? I searched once but kept finding foreign stuff

 

Wicca is a section of Paganism. Part of the Wiccan creed is 'And it harm none, do what you will'. I must say that to me that means not eating animals, but that doesn't seem to apply to many Pagans. I expect that also annoys your friend. But then the same applies in many other religions.

 

I don't know any really good sites. My own personal favourites are www.isleofavalon.co.uk/, www.warband.org/, www.witchcraft.org/index.htm, www.paganlink.org/uk-info/index.html, and you could also try www.paganfed.demon.co.uk/ although I am not enamoured of them personally, having argued with many of their officers on a chat group. It might be a good idea to ask your friend if she has a book she could lend you - that's how most of us started.

 

On a personal level, as a Pagan I celebrate eight Sabbats and 13 Full Moons (esbats) each year, usually within a group. We celebrate outside in the woods. Some celebrations are at Sunrise, some at night. The Summer Solstice is usually an all night vigil, and the Winter Solstice should be too. Our next festival is Ostara or the Spring Equinox, which is celebrated at sunrise. The festivals equate to seasons of the year, and seasons of personal development.

 

I will endeavour to answer any questions, but do not claim to speak for anyone else, or be an expert. I can only answer for myself.

 

Jo

 

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[Guest guest]

It does not matter if it is a religion in the commonly understood meaning of the word, for some of us veganism/AR is as important or more so than an actual religion.

 

Jerry Friedman of Los Angeles is arguing in his lawsuit that Ethical Veganism is the functional equivalent of religious beliefs and that his firing on the grounds that he refused a non-vegan mumps vaccination amounted to religious discrimination. If you say that veganism is not equivalent to a religion, you undermine its status and importance, and this does people like Jerry a disservice in the fight for equal rights for vegans in the workplace!

 

I don't have a religion although I come pretty close to being a secular humanist if I had to decide on a religion, according to the beliefnet quiz. My beliefs about respecting life are more important for me than belonging to a religion, and I would rather belong to organised groups (both social and campaigning groups) with other vegans (and to some extent pro-lifers and other causes), than bother with any organised religion.

 

I gave up the Church of England in my teenage years because I went vegetarian and could not convert anyone in the church, I kept getting the old nonsense from the people I tried to convert, about god putting the animals here for us to eat. I could not remain as part of a group of such arrogant people. It struck me that they had decided for themselves what they believed and then just said it was what god wanted, as if that made it more valid. I decided I didn't need to claim I had a god or goddess behind me for my beliefs to be valid. People can easily find whatever they want from the Bible to back them up as it's full of contradictions. I could have probably found Biblical stuff to back me up, just as easily as they could.

 

If I was a pagan, it would annoy me if I went to gatherings and other people didn't believe the golden rule applied to other animals, and if most humanists are not vegetarian, I'm not that interested in joining them!

 

I know what my priorities are and unlike you I do think it important to convert people, because it's about whether or not they condemn animals to death, so it's that important. I agree mostly with Angie.

 

Lesley

 

 

 

dmressel [dmressel]01 March 2002 17:53 Subject: Re: off topic...this can't be trueI agree with Jo. Even though I'm vegan, that doesn't mean that's the only thing I care about! I have plenty of outside interests and I care more about the person inside than what they eat. It would be *nice* to have vegan or vegetarian friends besides my boyfriend. However, I've met many at various functions and never really cliqued with any of them.Also, if I am to exclude meat-eating people from being my friends, how am I to set a good example and spread the word? I truly believe in living by example - not by preaching. I respect my friends' decisions and they respect mine - and I've gotten many of my friends to eat less meat. I have at least 3 friends that will eat a black bean burger or a boca burger over a hamburger because of my influences. I can't say I've "converted" anyone, but veganism is not a religion and I'm not out to "convert" people anyway. If they agree with my philosophies, they will begin to change in their own time.To each his own, I guess - but I'm not going to turn down a friendship with someone I truly like because they eat meat. ~ Dawn, "Angie Wright" <angiewright@n...> wrote:> Apart from my Drama group "aquaintances" ,> all my friends are vegan . If I move from Nottingham it will have to be to a town with a fairly strong AR group > I couldn't manage anymore not to have vegan friends> Our fast food takeaway , V1 is about 95% vegan and owned by a vegan . > If I didn't go to work I could live my life ( except for shopping never talking to animal eaters) I sometimes forget how lonely it is, being the only vegan . It was so long ago (at uni) when I was in that position > > Angie> - > Jo > > Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:05 PM> Re: Re: off topic...this can't be I would have no friends if I waited for only vegans. I know one vegan at work .... but she likes Britney Spears and doesn't know what heavy metal is, and is a Christian and doesn't have anything in common with my Paganism. She doesn't like gardening or Sci Fi so when we've finished talking about the weather - there's nothing left to say. At least with my omnivore friends I have fun things in common with them.> > Jo> > --> "All truth passes through 3 stages.> First, it is ridiculed.> Second, it is violently opposed.> Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."> - Arthur Schopenhauer> > - > Lesley Dove > > Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:50 PM> RE: Re: off topic...this can't be true> > > You have done great that both your kids went veggie or vegan, you have a lot to be proud of there. There must have been something you did right in raising them with compassionate values, even though they were not actually raised veggie or vegan.> I couldn't feel as close to omnivores as I could to vegetarians and vegans personally, so of course ever since becoming veggie then vegan I have always sought out like-minded friends as a high priority in life - that is hard when you have young kids and don't drive and have to seek them out very locally.> As a teenager I felt I could not stay friends with my best friend, not really cos of her eating meat, as I could delude myself that she was in denial until she got engaged to a man who worked in Winsford Bacon factory (ie slaughterhouse)! That was too much for me to deal with. I felt it meant that she knew the full horror of slaughter and still did not care, and I could not have anything to do with him of course! I sometimes wonder if I was wrong to assume that she knew anything about his job, since my hubby is a programmer and yet I don't understand anything about computers, it's only thanks to him I can be online!> > Lesley> > Jo [Heartwork@b...]> 28 February 2002 12:04> > Re: Re: off topic...this can't be true> > > Lesley> > I agree that our love for our family and friends is inconsistent with feelings on veganism. My daughter was an omnivore longer than the rest of us, but I still loved her just the same, and I would now if she were still an omnivore. All of my friends are omnivores, and while it would be nice if they were vegan, they are still my friends and I would not wish harm on them.> > The other point is one that Graham (?) pointed out. We help save the lives of cats, and they kill other animals - so maybe that is causing more death.> > We don't have to be perfect to do some good.> > JoTo send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Yes, I miss that side of things a lot, but felt I was helping a little a few weeks ago when I popped along to the laboratory (guinea pigs) demo in North Harrow, and did a bit of door to door leafletting while Lucy slept in her buggy. I felt the organisers who came a long way from the midlands, appreciated me being there.

 

I don't mind age differences too much, it might have made more difference when I was younger, but now I'm practically middle-aged, I can remember being young and feel I am very much the same person, so I don't have a problem with the idea of friends older or younger than myself. I don't feel worlds apart from anyone just for them being older or younger than me these days, and I hope the young people don't think I am an old fogey!

Lesley

 

Angie Wright [angiewright]01 March 2002 22:54 Subject: Re: Re: off topic...this can't be true

I don't share interests with my vegan friends either ,(age differences ) but we do stalls together and AR Demos. They are good company But I don't socialise( in the normal meaning of the word ) with them . Demos are a form of socialising that omnivores probably never experience (unless political etc )

 

-

Jo

Friday, March 01, 2002 7:45 PM

Re: Re: off topic...this can't be true

 

I know only the one vegan at work, and one veggie - that's about it really. I don't see them outside work because we all have different interests/family lives, so I would be pretty lonely if I didn't mix with non-veggies. Basically, I like people, and liketo have fun.

 

Jo

 

 

Apart from my Drama group "aquaintances" ,

all my friends are vegan . If I move from Nottingham it will have to be to a town with a fairly strong AR group

I couldn't manage anymore not to have vegan friends

Our fast food takeaway , V1 is about 95% vegan and owned by a vegan .

If I didn't go to work I could live my life ( except for shopping never talking to animal eaters) I sometimes forget how lonely it is, being the only vegan . It was so long ago (at uni) when I was in that position

 

-

Jo

Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:05 PM

Re: Re: off topic...this can't be I would have no friends if I waited for only vegans. I know one vegan at work .... but she likes Britney Spears and doesn't know what heavy metal is, and is a Christian and doesn't have anything in common with my Paganism. She doesn't like gardening or Sci Fi so when we've finished talking about the weather - there's nothing left to say. At least with my omnivore friends I have fun things in common with them.

 

Jo

--"All truth passes through 3 stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer

 

-

Lesley Dove

Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:50 PM

RE: Re: off topic...this can't be true

 

You have done great that both your kids went veggie or vegan, you have a lot to be proud of there. There must have been something you did right in raising them with compassionate values, even though they were not actually raised veggie or vegan.

I couldn't feel as close to omnivores as I could to vegetarians and vegans personally, so of course ever since becoming veggie then vegan I have always sought out like-minded friends as a high priority in life - that is hard when you have young kids and don't drive and have to seek them out very locally.

As a teenager I felt I could not stay friends with my best friend, not really cos of her eating meat, as I could delude myself that she was in denial until she got engaged to a man who worked in Winsford Bacon factory (ie slaughterhouse)! That was too much for me to deal with. I felt it meant that she knew the full horror of slaughter and still did not care, and I could not have anything to do with him of course! I sometimes wonder if I was wrong to assume that she knew anything about his job, since my hubby is a programmer and yet I don't understand anything about computers, it's only thanks to him I can be online!

 

Lesley

 

Jo [Heartwork]28 February 2002 12:04 Subject: Re: Re: off topic...this can't be true

Lesley

 

I agree that our love for our family and friends is inconsistent with feelings on veganism. My daughter was an omnivore longer than the rest of us, but I still loved her just the same, and I would now if she were still an omnivore. All of my friends are omnivores, and while it would be nice if they were vegan, they are still my friends and I would not wish harm on them.

 

The other point is one that Graham (?) pointed out. We help save the lives of cats, and they kill other animals - so maybe that is causing more death.

 

We don't have to be perfect to do some good.

 

Jo

--"All truth passes through 3 stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer

 

-

Lesley Dove

Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:19 AM

RE: Re: off topic...this can't be true

 

 

But there is the argument that by saving a meat-eater's life we are condemning many animals to death, that is why I can understand that from a utilitarian viewpoint it is a difficult issue for vegans. Thyis is about how to cause the greatest overall happiness and the least overall suffering.

 

It's like my viewpoint on abortion, some vegans have pointed out that by being pro-life and wanting to save babies from abortion, the more babies live the more animals die to feed them, but I'm still pro-life because I am not a utilitarian and I value human life too, and I believe humans have a potential for good and should all get a chance at life.

 

I will still give blood (when I am allowed to, I had my daughter too recently to be allowed to give blood yet) while being aware of the possible inconsistency with wanting to create a more vegan world.

 

I really want my mother to quit smoking so that she will live longer and be less likely to die of cancer, but that would mean she would live longer and eat more animals, so I would say that I want even more for her to go veggie or vegan, but even if she doesn't change her diet I still want her to stop smoking, and that is probably inconsistent with causing less overall suffering.

 

We most of us have particular attachments to particular individuals (human and animal), and this makes us less able to be consistent sometimes with hoping for what is most vegan, and makes us less likely to make utilitarian decisions.

 

I think utilitarianism is difficult because we can't always predict accurately what will cause the least harm and the most happiness, and you never know the person you save might convert anyway. You never know who you are saving.

 

Lesley

 

 

shelloid [shelloid]27 February 2002 16:00 Subject: Re: Re: off topic...this can't be true

so you would rather condemn someone to death. IMO I wouldn't be able not to give blood just because a meateater may benefit.............to me it's about saving any life.

 

 

> I still have to repay what my son needed for his heart operation , but after that I don't know I don't feel I should help to keep

> animal eaters alive .

> Convince me someone

To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Lesley

>>I decided I didn't need to claim I had a god or goddess behind me for my beliefs to be >>valid.

 

Precisely my thoughts too. The 'rules' of gods are merely what some person once said were the thoughts of god.

 

>>People can easily find whatever they want from the Bible to back them up as it's full >>of contradictions. I could have probably found Biblical stuff to back me up, just >>as easily as they could.

 

You could indeed. My Hare Krishna friend often quotes from the bible to 'prove' that God didn't want us to eat animals, that we should look after them. I think that the only time this is not so is when asked what people could eat when there were floods etc. and vegetation was not available.

 

>>I know what my priorities are and unlike you I do think it important to convert people, >>because it's about whether or not they condemn animals to death, so it's that >>important. I agree mostly with Angie.

 

....but how many people have you converted? or are they just alienated from you>

 

Jo

 

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[Guest guest]

I became alienated from animal eaters. The problem with most people is that even if they appear to convert, they don't have the strength to stick with it. That happened with my first boyfriend who tried being veggie when we were together, and also another friend of mine many years ago went veggie but didn't stick with it. It's hard to convert people, when most of them are not open-minded enough to change their ways. Even my first husband, who I met at the BUAV when we were volunteers there, stopped being vegan when we split, I think he is still vegetarian, but he should have been able to stay vegan, as he has many vegan friends.

 

Lesley

 

 

Jo [Heartwork]02 March 2002 19:11 Subject: Re: Re: off topic...this can't be true

Lesley

>>I decided I didn't need to claim I had a god or goddess behind me for my beliefs to be >>valid.

 

Precisely my thoughts too. The 'rules' of gods are merely what some person once said were the thoughts of god.

 

>>People can easily find whatever they want from the Bible to back them up as it's full >>of contradictions. I could have probably found Biblical stuff to back me up, just >>as easily as they could.

 

You could indeed. My Hare Krishna friend often quotes from the bible to 'prove' that God didn't want us to eat animals, that we should look after them. I think that the only time this is not so is when asked what people could eat when there were floods etc. and vegetation was not available.

 

>>I know what my priorities are and unlike you I do think it important to convert people, >>because it's about whether or not they condemn animals to death, so it's that >>important. I agree mostly with Angie.

 

....but how many people have you converted? or are they just alienated from you>

 

Jo

 

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[Guest guest]

And if they do , lets hope they keep quiet about it . !!! No one has complained about me !!!!

 

-

Lesley Dove

Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:40 PM

RE: Re: off topic...this can't be true

 

 

Yes, I

I don't mind age differences too much, it might have made more difference when I was younger, but now I'm practically middle-aged, I can remember being young and feel I am very much the same person, so I don't have a problem with the idea of friends older or younger than myself. I don't feel worlds apart from anyone just for them being older or younger than me these days, and I hope the young people don't think I am an old fogey!

Lesley

 

an email to -

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/2/02 8:14:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Heartwork writes:

 

<< Our next festival is Ostara or the Spring Equinox, which is celebrated at

sunrise. The festivals equate to seasons of the year, and seasons of

personal development. >>

 

Easter!!!!

when jesus rose from the grave as a bunny rabbit and proceded to hand out

colored eggs

 

ain't it great how religions just co-opt each other's traditions as their

own??

teehee

fraggle

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <Snowbow@b...> wrote:

> Hi Chris

>

> > I forgot Metallica as of 1991.

>

> Probably a good move! :-)

>

> BB

> Peter

 

indeed...they seem to have forgotten THEMSELVES. *sigh* oh,how the

mighty have fallen....

 

Chris X

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

 

> indeed...they seem to have forgotten THEMSELVES. *sigh* oh,how the

> mighty have fallen....

 

I'm hoping that maybe with James out of rehab they might go back to what

they were like *before* he started on the drugs. But I'm probably being

over-optimistic.

 

Still, makes me laugh - must make it a bit tricky for James to sing Master

of Puppets!!!

 

BB

Peter

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Reality check: someone else would get their job.

 

--- Angie ---

But if the hunan being is a vivisector I wouldn't want to save his /her

life . More lives would be saved if animal abusers were not still

alive .

 

--

Ian McDonald

 

http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/

[Guest guest]

> Lesley Dove wrote:

>

>

> It does not matter if it is a religion in the commonly understood

> meaning of the word, for some of us veganism/AR is as important or

> more so than an actual religion.

>

 

Jerry uses the phrase " profoundly held belief " , which I think is a good

one.

 

--

Ian McDonald

 

http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/

[Guest guest]

LOL I can just see it.

 

Jo

 

> Easter!!!!

> when jesus rose from the grave as a bunny rabbit and proceded to hand out

> colored eggs

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/02 12:22:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,

XBobaFettX writes:

 

<< indeed...they seem to have forgotten THEMSELVES. *sigh* oh,how the

mighty have fallen....

 

Chris X

>>

it is my esteemed position that all bands should quit after a said number of

years.....

3 or 4 yrs and bands seem to start going to sh*t....

but then again..thats me

peter and chris just got upset because metallica cut their hair....

[Guest guest]

Hi Fraggle

 

> it is my esteemed position that all bands should quit after a said number

of

> years.....

> 3 or 4 yrs and bands seem to start going to sh*t....

 

Not all - Judas Priest have been going for 33 years, and just keep getting

better! Ronnie Dio has been recording for 44 years and is still going strong

:-)

 

> peter and chris just got upset because metallica cut their hair....

 

Oooooh - the slander :-)

 

BB

Peter

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I think that's right a lot of the time, but Judas Priest get better with

each album - Dio is still good, Testament seem to improve, Slayer do, Opeth

stay good, Napalm Death have improved over the years. ... and that's with

only a moment's thought.

 

I must admit that I thought they looked like twits when they changed their

style, but then they were never good-looking anyway. I liked their music up

until the black album. Load and Reload and whatever has come since are not

up to the same standard.

 

Jo

 

> it is my esteemed position that all bands should quit after a said number

of

> years.....

> 3 or 4 yrs and bands seem to start going to sh*t....

> but then again..thats me

> peter and chris just got upset because metallica cut their hair....

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Not all - Judas Priest have been going for 33 years, and just keep

getting

> better!

 

I saw judas priest in 1976 at the Kursaal in Southend- they were

funny- the singer had a whip and a leather cap.

[Guest guest]

> I think that's right a lot of the time, but Judas Priest get better

with

> each album

 

despite not having Rob Halford.....???? Better? No. Still good? Yes.

Ripper Owens has definitely got what it takes..just saw em a few

weeks ago. The new album is hot too.

 

> - Dio is still good,

 

haha,hes still around?

 

>Testament seem to improve,

 

thats not saying much...I never liked them until " Low "

and " Demonic " ,thast wehn they grew some balls and started playing

real heavy,instead of being metallica-lite.

 

>Slayer do,

 

 

agreed.

 

Opeth

> stay good,

 

nott hat theyve been around forever like the other bands you

mentioned,but theyre amazing regardless.

 

>Napalm Death have improved over the years.

 

true and not true..the first 2 full lengths were just whirlwind

grind.Then Harmony Corruption and Death By Manipulation were without

a doubt their best work. But theyre still good,and still plugging

after all these years. Plus at least one of them is vegan!

 

> I must admit that I thought they looked like twits when they

changed their

> style, but then they were never good-looking anyway. I liked their

music up

> until the black album. Load and Reload and whatever has come since

are not

> up to the same standard.

>

> Jo

 

Understatemnt of the decade..after " And Justice For All " (their last

good record),they might as well all have died in a bus crash. Cliff

must be rolling over in his grave hearing the slop theyve been

releasing for the past 10 years.

 

Chris X

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

 

> despite not having Rob Halford.....???? Better? No. Still good? Yes.

> Ripper Owens has definitely got what it takes..just saw em a few

> weeks ago. The new album is hot too.

 

I reckon the music they're writing is better than ever, and Ripper, as you

say, has what it takes. And you've got the double advantage of having solo

Halford which is also excellent :-)

 

> > - Dio is still good,

> haha,hes still around?

 

Yep - new album due in about May or June.

 

> Understatemnt of the decade..after " And Justice For All " (their last

> good record),they might as well all have died in a bus crash. Cliff

> must be rolling over in his grave hearing the slop theyve been

> releasing for the past 10 years.

 

I like quite a few of the tracks off the Black album, but it was a sign of

things to come :-(.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

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Chris

 

> despite not having Rob Halford.....???? Better? No. Still good? Yes.

> Ripper Owens has definitely got what it takes..just saw em a few

> weeks ago. The new album is hot too.

 

Well their music is better (heavier, you know). Of course they couldn't

improve on Rob but Ripper is just as good. I'm quite pleased anyway, cos we

still have a brilliant Judas Priest, and we also have a brilliant Halford

band.

>

> > - Dio is still good,

>

> haha,hes still around?

 

Cheeky! He is - and he's been rather heavy over the last few albums.

>

> >Testament seem to improve,

>

> thats not saying much...I never liked them until " Low "

> and " Demonic " ,thast wehn they grew some balls and started playing

> real heavy,instead of being metallica-lite.

 

I love Low, but I like all their old stuff as well because I've always loved

guitars, whether classical or metal. I must admit I haven't played their

old stuff for a while, but I seem to remember things like 'Into The Pit'

being somewhat heavy - and they were brilliant live.

 

> Opeth

> > stay good,

>

> nott hat theyve been around forever like the other bands you

> mentioned,but theyre amazing regardless.

 

but they have been around a lot longer than 4 or 5 years. I first saw them

about 6 years ago, maybe more, and I think they had two albums out then.

>

> >Napalm Death have improved over the years.

>

> true and not true..the first 2 full lengths were just whirlwind

> grind.Then Harmony Corruption and Death By Manipulation were without

> a doubt their best work. But theyre still good,and still plugging

> after all these years. Plus at least one of them is vegan!

 

I prefer their new stuff - I think Diatribes is my favourite. I know Barney

is veggie, and teetotal. I entered a competition on TotalRock last year.

The prize was to have Napalm Death play in your living room. You should

have seen Colin's face when I told him - he almost panicked. It would have

been fun though.

 

Back to Metallica, what is Jason doing now?

 

Jo

>

> > I must admit that I thought they looked like twits when they

> changed their

> > style, but then they were never good-looking anyway. I liked their

> music up

> > until the black album. Load and Reload and whatever has come since

> are not

> > up to the same standard.

> >

> > Jo

>

> Understatemnt of the decade..after " And Justice For All " (their last

> good record),they might as well all have died in a bus crash. Cliff

> must be rolling over in his grave hearing the slop theyve been

> releasing for the past 10 years.

>

> Chris X

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Well their music is better (heavier, you know).

 

 

true...that song " Bloodsuckers " on the new one is hot!

 

Of course they couldn't

> improve on Rob but Ripper is just as good. I'm quite pleased

anyway, cos we

> still have a brilliant Judas Priest, and we also have a brilliant

Halford

> band.

 

agreed..Halford's " Live Insurrection " album is hot stuff as

well.Plenty of Priest classics,and even some Fight!(very underrated

band!!!)

 

 

 

.. I entered a competition on TotalRock last year.

> The prize was to have Napalm Death play in your living room. You

should

> have seen Colin's face when I told him - he almost panicked. It

would have

> been fun though.

 

 

oh man,I'd have loved to win that!

 

>

> Back to Metallica, what is Jason doing now?

 

repenting for those last 3 Metallica albums,I'd hope. Ha,no last I

heard he was playing session bass for VoiVod's latest album,and

involved in producing various bands. I dunno. I could care less.

 

Chris X