Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

No. They're being punished for *acting* on their beliefs - beliefs which have been anathema to civilised society since the second world war. They're being punished for acting on beliefs which everyone in the civilised world condemned Adolf Hitler for acting on - so, if it's alright for the firemen, why did we even bother with challenging Hitler?

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 8:08 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Well, you could ( if you felt that way inclined ) argue that they are being punished for their beliefs.

 

The Valley Vegan.................Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

>Do you not think that the firemen in question feel that way also?

 

How have the fireman been discriminated against?

 

BB

Peter

Peter H

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

What are you asking?

 

BB

Peter

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 8:06 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

"Queer"?

 

 

The Valley Vegan............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

>I sort of get the impression that there must be few gay firemen/women, or the ones that are

> keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I be silly again?

 

There are a few - a lot of queer people have left the fire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even know one or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anything slightly different from the "normal" (as in what society calls acceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin.

 

BB

Peter

Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

Nah - you're about 5 years out of date. It's now a term that most gay / lesbian / bi / other alternative sexuality folk use for themselves - at least most of my friends do, anyway...

 

BB

Peter

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 8:33 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Yeah, corse I heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I was under the impression that it was insulting to gays.

 

P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow.

 

The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

gay..homosexual..etc

you've never heard the term queer before?

peter VV Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

"Queer"?

 

 

The Valley Vegan............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

>I sort of get the impression that there must be few gay firemen/women, or the ones that are

> keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I be silly again?

 

There are a few - a lot of queer people have left the fire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even know one or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anything slightly different from the "normal" (as in what society calls acceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin.

 

BB

Peter

Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Mildred

 

>Well slap my thighs and call me mildred..............

 

If you don't mind, I'll leave the thigh-slapping to somemone else :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

5 Years out of date? more like 30! Cant say that I bother with or know any queer folk. Sheltered life etc,etc, The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter Nah - you're about 5 years out of date. It's now a term that most gay / lesbian / bi / other alternative sexuality folk use for themselves - at least most of my friends do, anyway... BB Peter - peter VV Friday, September 01, 2006 8:33 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub Yeah, corse I heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I was under the impression that it was insulting to gays. P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow. The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: gay..homosexual..etc you've never heard the term queer before? peter VV Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub "Queer"? The Valley Vegan............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter

>I sort of get the impression that there must be few gay firemen/women, or the ones that are > keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I be silly again? There are a few - a lot of queer people have left the fire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even know one or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anything slightly different from the "normal" (as in what society calls acceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin. BB Peter Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. If George Bush said that the Earth was flat, the headline would read, "Views Differ on Shape of the Earth" Peter H Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Mail. Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

Over reacting a tad, comparing refusing to hand out leaflets to attempted genocide? The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter No. They're being punished for *acting* on their beliefs - beliefs which have been anathema to civilised society since the second world war. They're being punished for acting on beliefs which everyone in the civilised world condemned Adolf Hitler for acting on - so, if it's alright for the firemen, why did we even bother with challenging Hitler? BB Peter - peter VV Friday, September 01, 2006 8:08 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub Well, you could ( if you felt that way inclined ) argue that they are being punished for their beliefs. The Valley

Vegan.................Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter >Do you not think that the firemen in question feel that way also? How have the fireman been discriminated against? BB Peter Peter H The all-new

Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

What homosexuals call themselves nowadays.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 8:06 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

"Queer"?

 

 

The Valley Vegan............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

>I sort of get the impression that there must be few gay firemen/women, or the ones that are

> keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I be silly again?

 

There are a few - a lot of queer people have left the fire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even know one or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anything slightly different from the "normal" (as in what society calls acceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin.

 

BB

Peter

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

It used to be an insult, just as nigger was an insult to black people. Now though, homosexuals call themselves queer, and I have heard black people call themselves nigger.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 8:33 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Yeah, corse I heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I was under the impression that it was insulting to gays.

 

P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow.

 

The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

gay..homosexual..etc

you've never heard the term queer before?

peter VV Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

"Queer"?

 

 

The Valley Vegan............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

>I sort of get the impression that there must be few gay firemen/women, or the ones that are

> keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I be silly again?

 

There are a few - a lot of queer people have left the fire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even know one or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anything slightly different from the "normal" (as in what society calls acceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin.

 

BB

Peter

Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

Not at all - it's the same basic attitude - the only difference is the relative power weilded by the people involved. And if we accept any form of active discrimination then we pave the way to nazism.... as Niemoller said... "first they came for the homosexuals....."

 

BB

Peter

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 10:10 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Over reacting a tad, comparing refusing to hand out leaflets to attempted genocide?

 

The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

No. They're being punished for *acting* on their beliefs - beliefs which have been anathema to civilised society since the second world war. They're being punished for acting on beliefs which everyone in the civilised world condemned Adolf Hitler for acting on - so, if it's alright for the firemen, why did we even bother with challenging Hitler?

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 8:08 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Well, you could ( if you felt that way inclined ) argue that they are being punished for their beliefs.

 

The Valley Vegan.................Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

>Do you not think that the firemen in question feel that way also?

 

How have the fireman been discriminated against?

 

BB

Peter

Peter H

 

 

 

The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

Peter H

 

 

 

Try the all-new Mail . "The New Version is radically easier to use" – The Wall Street Journal

[Guest guest]

You mean its a bit like calling us Welsh Sheep sh***ers? The Valley Vegan............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: It used to be an insult, just as nigger was an insult to black people. Now though, homosexuals call themselves queer, and I have heard black people call themselves nigger. Jo - peter VV Friday, September 01, 2006 8:33 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub Yeah, corse I heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I was under the impression that it was insulting to gays. P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow. The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: gay..homosexual..etc you've never heard the term queer before? peter VV Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub "Queer"? The Valley Vegan............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter >I sort of get the impression that there must be few gay firemen/women, or the ones that are > keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I be silly again? There are a few - a lot of queer people have left the fire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even know one or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anything slightly different from the "normal" (as in what society calls acceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin. BB Peter Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. If George Bush said that the Earth was flat, the headline would read, "Views Differ on Shape of the

Earth" Peter H Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Mail. Peter H

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[Guest guest]

I`m sorry but I dissagree with the comparison for this particular instance, although I do agree that these things tend to grow. Incidentally, my employers ( BT ) have made everyone take a half hour diversity training course .......so now I know what a homosexual is!......duh! talk about stating the bleedin obvious! Like as though they`ve only recently existed! The Valley Vegan...............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter Not at all - it's the same basic attitude - the only difference is the relative power weilded by the people involved. And if we accept any form of active discrimination then we pave the

way to nazism.... as Niemoller said... "first they came for the homosexuals....." BB Peter - peter VV Friday, September 01, 2006 10:10 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub Over

reacting a tad, comparing refusing to hand out leaflets to attempted genocide? The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter No. They're being punished for *acting* on their beliefs - beliefs which have been anathema to civilised society since the second world war. They're being punished for acting on beliefs which everyone in the civilised world condemned Adolf Hitler for acting on - so, if it's alright for the firemen, why did we even bother with challenging Hitler? BB Peter - peter VV Friday, September 01, 2006 8:08 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub Well, you could ( if you felt that way inclined ) argue that they are being punished for their beliefs. The Valley Vegan.................Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter >Do you not think that the firemen in question feel that way also? How have the fireman been discriminated against? BB Peter Peter H The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. Peter H Try the all-new Mail . "The New Version is radically easier to use" – The Wall Street Journal Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

I suppose it would be. Luckily I never heard any rudeness about Welsh people :-)

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:23 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

You mean its a bit like calling us Welsh Sheep sh***ers?

 

The Valley Vegan............jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

It used to be an insult, just as nigger was an insult to black people. Now though, homosexuals call themselves queer, and I have heard black people call themselves nigger.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 8:33 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Yeah, corse I heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I was under the impression that it was insulting to gays.

 

P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow.

 

The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

gay..homosexual..etc

you've never heard the term queer before?

peter VV Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

"Queer"?

 

 

The Valley Vegan............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

>I sort of get the impression that there must be few gay firemen/women, or the ones that are

> keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I be silly again?

 

There are a few - a lot of queer people have left the fire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even know one or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anything slightly different from the "normal" (as in what society calls acceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin.

 

BB

Peter

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. If George Bush said that the Earth was flat, the headline would read, "Views Differ on Shape of the

Earth"

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[Guest guest]

We haven't had any training like that, thankfully.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:47 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

I`m sorry but I dissagree with the comparison for this particular instance, although I do agree that these things tend to grow.

Incidentally, my employers ( BT ) have made everyone take a half hour diversity training course .......so now I know what a homosexual is!......duh! talk about stating the bleedin obvious! Like as though they`ve only recently existed!

 

The Valley Vegan...............Peter <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

Not at all - it's the same basic attitude - the only difference is the relative power weilded by the people involved. And if we accept any form of active discrimination then we pave the way to nazism.... as Niemoller said... "first they came for the homosexuals....."

 

BB

Peter

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 10:10 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Over reacting a tad, comparing refusing to hand out leaflets to attempted genocide?

 

The Valley Vegan.............Peter <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

No. They're being punished for *acting* on their beliefs - beliefs which have been anathema to civilised society since the second world war. They're being punished for acting on beliefs which everyone in the civilised world condemned Adolf Hitler for acting on - so, if it's alright for the firemen, why did we even bother with challenging Hitler?

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 8:08 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Well, you could ( if you felt that way inclined ) argue that they are being punished for their beliefs.

 

The Valley Vegan.................Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

>Do you not think that the firemen in question feel that way also?

 

How have the fireman been discriminated against?

 

BB

Peter

Peter H

 

 

 

The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

Peter H

 

 

 

Try the all-new Mail . "The New Version is radically easier to use" – The Wall Street Journal

Peter H

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

The Times September 02, 2006 The firefighters say they disobeyed orders because they would have been harassed by the crowd (Photo: Wattie Cheung) Church accused of homophobia over gay celebration firefightersBy Lucy Bannerman Archbishop is censured for his support of men who refused to man a stall at a Glasgow festival THE Roman Catholic Archbishop of Glasgow has been accused of homophobia after speaking out against moves to discipline nine firefighters who refused to promote fire safety at a gay pride march. Archbishop Mario Conti condemned the “alarming” decision by the largest fire service in Scotland to send its staff to

diversity training after they disobeyed orders at the Pride Scotia festival on June 24. The group of firefighters from Strathclyde Fire and Rescue (SFR) — five of whom are Catholic — refused to man the information stall in George Square as hundreds took part in the celebrations. Some said it contradicted their religious beliefs, while others said they felt embarrassed and vulnerable wearing a fireman’s uniform at a gay rally. Gay rights groups said yesterday that the response from the Catholic Church in Scotland was hysterical and homophobic. Earlier, Archbishop Conti, who has previously riled the gay community with his opposition to civil partnerships and the removal of the infamous Section 28

outlawing the teaching of homosexuality in schools, said he understood the reasons for their boycott. He said: “They were asked, while in uniform, to hand out leaflets during a demonstration where they had legitimate concerns about being the subject of taunts and jokes and in which, in some cases, their religious sensibilities would have been grossly offended by people dressed as priests and nuns lampooning the Church. “That the officers concerned are being forced to undergo ‘diversity training’ is alarming. The duty to obey one’s conscience is a higher duty than that of obeying orders.” However, Andy Forrest, spokesman for Stonewall, said Archbishop Conti had no place commenting on the issue. He said: “The Church has no role to play in something which is a disciplinary matter, in terms of people refusing to do their job. “If they had refused to hand out leaflets at a mosque or a church there would have been justifiable outrage. It is as

if having a faith makes you exempt from doing certain things you don’t like about your job. That is unreasonable. “There would have been all types of people on the march who also pay their taxes and are therefore entitled to public services.” One of the men involved, a watch manager, was reduced to the rank of crew manager, losing an estimated £5,000 in salary, while the others have all received official written warnings about their behaviour. The men, from Cowcaddens fire station, are deciding whether to appeal against the decision. In response to the criticism of Archbishop Conti’s comments, Peter Kearney, spokesman for the Catholic Church in Scotland, said the disciplinary action was excessive, insisting that Strathclyde Fire and Rescue had asked staff to go beyond the remit of their public duties. He added: “This is a larger issue of human rights, freedom of conscience and freedom of religious expression. “Obviously, if a gay bar was on

fire, nobody would defend it if firefighters said they weren’t going. That is part of their job, but this is a step beyond the remit. jo <jo.heartwork wrote: We haven't had any training like that, thankfully. Jo - peter VV Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:47 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub I`m sorry but I dissagree with the comparison for this particular instance, although I do agree that these things tend to grow. Incidentally, my employers ( BT ) have made everyone take a half hour diversity training course .......so now I know what a homosexual is!......duh! talk about stating the bleedin obvious! Like as though they`ve only recently existed! The Valley Vegan...............Peter H

 

Try the all-new Mail . "The New Version is radically easier to use" – The Wall Street Journal

[Guest guest]

Apart from Anne Robinson, Oh and heres a quote from Michael Douglas when asked why he and Catherine Zeta didnt visit much.......... "We love the Welsh, but its good to keep a healthy distance" The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: I suppose it would be. Luckily I never heard any rudeness about Welsh people :-) Jo - peter VV Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:23 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub You mean its a bit like calling us Welsh Sheep sh***ers? The Valley Vegan............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: It used to be an insult, just as nigger was an insult to black

people. Now though, homosexuals call themselves queer, and I have heard black people call themselves nigger. Jo - peter VV Friday, September 01, 2006 8:33 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub Yeah, corse I

heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I was under the impression that it was insulting to gays. P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow. The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: gay..homosexual..etc you've never heard the term queer before? peter VV Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub "Queer"? The Valley Vegan............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter >I sort of get the impression that there must be few gay firemen/women, or the ones that are > keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I be silly again? There are a few - a lot of queer people have left the fire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even know one or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anything slightly different from the "normal" (as in what society calls acceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin. BB Peter Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. If George Bush said that the Earth was flat, the headline would read, "Views Differ on Shape of the Earth" Peter H Inbox full of spam? Get leading

spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Mail. Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

my feeling is that a firefighter is a public duty job.

 

Therefore, an individual persons opinion should not be taken into

account.

 

If a person signs up for that kind of job, he/she should deal with the

consequences and duties or quit.

Their personalities should not come into place, they are like soldiers

doing a job.

 

The bottom line is that it is illegal to discriminate. To not

distribute flyers to people of certain sexual orientation is illegal.

Anti-discrimination is protected by law.

 

 

It is ok, (although sad) for someone to have racist thoughts in their

head, because

no one can control another persons thoughts. There is hatred.

What is not ok is to act upon those thoughts.

 

I probably have pre-concieved notions of X, Y or Z group, but knowing

that pre-concieved notions are usually wrong and hurt, I give everyone

a fair chance at being a human first.

 

The laws are there to protect,

because people cannot mature enough(on their own) to not hate

because someone is different.

 

-anouk

 

 

 

, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> I`m sorry but I dissagree with the comparison for this particular

instance, although I do agree that these things tend to grow.

> Incidentally, my employers ( BT ) have made everyone take a half

hour diversity training course .......so now I know what a homosexual

is!......duh! talk about stating the bleedin obvious! Like as though

they`ve only recently existed!

>

> The Valley Vegan...............

>

[Guest guest]

The queer word,

I have been hearing since the nineties,

where gay people, tired of being belittled and people calling them

names...

decided to own that word.

 

If they own it, then the negative connotation is gone. To own a word

is power.

 

If they are using the word Queer in a positive, in a celebratory, in a

proud way, then it hasn't got much hurt power does it?

 

 

I do not have that many Gay friends, just two and they are both in new

york, so I only see them in the summer. I would like to make

more friends with gay people because It is very important to me

that my children are expose to gay people.

 

I brought them to the gay pride march this past summer in nyc and they

seemed to enjoy the costumes and the music.

 

Inevitably, children will use the word gay in a slur at school. I

want them to know better,

because they will have had a different experience.

 

If one of my little boys turned out to be gay, then I would like for him

to know that he is loved the way he is.

 

Do they have a Gay pride parade in wales? Or are they mostly in the

closet like here in my town?

 

-anouk

 

, " jo " <jo.heartwork wrote:

>

> I suppose it would be. Luckily I never heard any rudeness about

Welsh people :-)

>

> Jo

> -

> peter VV

>

> Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:23 PM

> Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

>

>

> You mean its a bit like calling us Welsh Sheep sh***ers?

>

> The Valley Vegan............

>

> jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

> It used to be an insult, just as nigger was an insult to black

people. Now though, homosexuals call themselves queer, and I have

heard black people call themselves nigger.

>

> Jo

> -

> peter VV

>

> Friday, September 01, 2006 8:33 PM

> Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay

parade snub

>

>

> Yeah, corse I heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I was

under the impression that it was insulting to gays.

>

> P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow.

>

> The Valley Vegan.............

>

> fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

> gay..homosexual..etc

> you've never heard the term queer before?

>

>

>

>

> peter VV

> Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM

>

> Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay

parade snub

>

>

> " Queer " ?

>

>

> The Valley Vegan............

>

> Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

> Hi Peter

>

> >I sort of get the impression that there must be few gay

firemen/women, or the ones that are

> > keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I be

silly again?

>

> There are a few - a lot of queer people have left the

fire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even know

one or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anything

slightly different from the " normal " (as in what society calls

acceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin.

>

> BB

> Peter

>

>

>

>

>

> Peter H

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.

> If George Bush said that the Earth was flat, the headline would

read, " Views Differ on Shape of the

> Earth "

>

>

>

>

> Peter H

>

>

>

--------

> Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB

storage with All New Mail.

>

>

>

>

> Peter H

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.

>

[Guest guest]

We had a lesbian and gay mardi gras on the weekend in Cardiff, ( now an annual event ).When I was younger, no-one dared to be openly gay in the valleys for fear of their own safety. Its not so bad now, but old attitudes are hard to shake. Look at this prat ( so called christian attitudes?) Christian held over anti-gay leaflets Sep 4 2006 Anna Hammond, South Wales Echo A

christian protester has been arrested at Cardiff's Mardi Gras. Stephen Green, director of Christian Voice, was handing out homophobic leaflets at the weekend festival when police swooped. His was the only arrest at the annual gay and lesbian celebration, which attracted around 40,000 people. He claims he distributed 1,000 leaflets before he was arrested. He has been charged with using threatening, abusive or insulting words. What a twat! The Valley Vegan.............. Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote: The queer word, I have been hearing since the nineties, where gay people, tired of being belittled

and people calling them names...decided to own that word. If they own it, then the negative connotation is gone. To own a word is power.If they are using the word Queer in a positive, in a celebratory, in aproud way, then it hasn't got much hurt power does it?I do not have that many Gay friends, just two and they are both in newyork, so I only see them in the summer. I would like to make more friends with gay people because It is very important to me that my children are expose to gay people. I brought them to the gay pride march this past summer in nyc and they seemed to enjoy the costumes and the music. Inevitably, children will use the word gay in a slur at school. Iwant them to know better, because they will have had a different experience. If one of my little boys turned out to be gay, then I would like for him to know that he is loved the way he is. Do they have a

Gay pride parade in wales? Or are they mostly in the closet like here in my town?-anouk , "jo" wrote:>> I suppose it would be. Luckily I never heard any rudeness aboutWelsh people :-)> > Jo> - > peter VV > > Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:23 PM> Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub> > > You mean its a bit like calling us Welsh Sheep sh***ers?> > The Valley Vegan............> > jo wrote:> It used to be an insult, just as nigger was an insult to blackpeople. Now though, homosexuals call themselves queer, and I haveheard black people call themselves nigger. > > Jo> - > peter VV > To:

> Friday, September 01, 2006 8:33 PM> Re: Firefighters disciplined for gayparade snub> > > Yeah, corse I heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I wasunder the impression that it was insulting to gays.> > P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow.> > The Valley Vegan.............> > fraggle wrote:> gay..homosexual..etc> you've never heard the term queer before?> > > > > peter VV > Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM > > Re: Firefighters disciplined for gayparade snub > > > "Queer"?> > > The Valley Vegan............> > Peter Kebbell wrote:> Hi Peter> > >I

sort of get the impression that there must be few gayfiremen/women, or the ones that are> > keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I besilly again?> > There are a few - a lot of queer people have left thefire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even knowone or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anythingslightly different from the "normal" (as in what society callsacceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin. > > BB> Peter> > > > > > Peter H > > Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger. > If George Bush said that the Earth was flat, the headline wouldread, "Views Differ on Shape of the> Earth"> > > > > Peter H > >

>--------> Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GBstorage with All New Mail. > > > > > Peter H > > Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Hi Anouk

 

> Do they have a Gay pride parade in wales? Or are they mostly in the

> closet like here in my town?

 

They have a Mardi Gras in Cardiff... I have quite a few friends who head

along to it, as it's just across the river from Bristol :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Ah yes - well... Anne Robinson has had some sort of mid-life crisis spread over the last ten years or so, and seems to be nasty all round. Michael Douglas is just a twit - so I wouldn't take any notice of him.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:07 AM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Apart from Anne Robinson, Oh and heres a quote from Michael Douglas when asked why he and Catherine Zeta didnt visit much..........

"We love the Welsh, but its good to keep a healthy distance"

 

The Valley Vegan.............jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

I suppose it would be. Luckily I never heard any rudeness about Welsh people :-)

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:23 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

You mean its a bit like calling us Welsh Sheep sh***ers?

 

The Valley Vegan............jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

It used to be an insult, just as nigger was an insult to black people. Now though, homosexuals call themselves queer, and I have heard black people call themselves nigger.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Friday, September 01, 2006 8:33 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Yeah, corse I heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I was under the impression that it was insulting to gays.

 

P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow.

 

The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

gay..homosexual..etc

you've never heard the term queer before?

peter VV Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

"Queer"?

 

 

The Valley Vegan............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

>I sort of get the impression that there must be few gay firemen/women, or the ones that are

> keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I be silly again?

 

There are a few - a lot of queer people have left the fire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even know one or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anything slightly different from the "normal" (as in what society calls acceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin.

 

BB

Peter

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. If George Bush said that the Earth was flat, the headline would read, "Views Differ on Shape of the Earth"

Peter H

 

 

 

Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Mail.

Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

Peter H

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Anouk

 

That's what I think. I was surprised to hear that handing out leaflets was

part of their job, as I had assumed that they fought fires, attended road

accidents etc. but if it is part of their job then they should hand them out

at all events.

 

Jo

 

-

" Anouk Sickler " <zurumato

 

Monday, September 04, 2006 7:48 PM

Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

 

> my feeling is that a firefighter is a public duty job.

>

> Therefore, an individual persons opinion should not be taken into

> account.

>

> If a person signs up for that kind of job, he/she should deal with the

> consequences and duties or quit.

> Their personalities should not come into place, they are like soldiers

> doing a job.

>

> The bottom line is that it is illegal to discriminate. To not

> distribute flyers to people of certain sexual orientation is illegal.

> Anti-discrimination is protected by law.

>

>

> It is ok, (although sad) for someone to have racist thoughts in their

> head, because

> no one can control another persons thoughts. There is hatred.

> What is not ok is to act upon those thoughts.

>

> I probably have pre-concieved notions of X, Y or Z group, but knowing

> that pre-concieved notions are usually wrong and hurt, I give everyone

> a fair chance at being a human first.

>

> The laws are there to protect,

> because people cannot mature enough(on their own) to not hate

> because someone is different.

>

> -anouk

>

>

>

> , peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

> >

> > I`m sorry but I dissagree with the comparison for this particular

> instance, although I do agree that these things tend to grow.

> > Incidentally, my employers ( BT ) have made everyone take a half

> hour diversity training course .......so now I know what a homosexual

> is!......duh! talk about stating the bleedin obvious! Like as though

> they`ve only recently existed!

> >

> > The Valley Vegan...............

> >

>

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

Unfortunately the church seems to be taking a nasty stand against homosexuals nowadays.

 

It is true that it wasn't much spoken about when I was a kid - the first gay chap I knew was very outlandish (very brave) and was very much like Julian Clary when he was younger. He was really good fun to know.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Monday, September 04, 2006 8:21 PM

Re: Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

We had a lesbian and gay mardi gras on the weekend in Cardiff, ( now an annual event ).When I was younger, no-one dared to be openly gay in the valleys for fear of their own safety. Its not so bad now, but old attitudes are hard to shake.

Look at this prat ( so called christian attitudes?)

Christian held over anti-gay leaflets

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sep 4 2006

 

 

 

 

 

Anna Hammond, South Wales Echo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A christian protester has been arrested at Cardiff's Mardi Gras.

Stephen Green, director of Christian Voice, was handing out homophobic leaflets at the weekend festival when police swooped.

His was the only arrest at the annual gay and lesbian celebration, which attracted around 40,000 people.

He claims he distributed 1,000 leaflets before he was arrested.

He has been charged with using threatening, abusive or insulting words.

What a twat!

The Valley Vegan..............

Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote:

The queer word, I have been hearing since the nineties, where gay people, tired of being belittled and people calling them names...decided to own that word. If they own it, then the negative connotation is gone. To own a word is power.If they are using the word Queer in a positive, in a celebratory, in aproud way, then it hasn't got much hurt power does it?I do not have that many Gay friends, just two and they are both in newyork, so I only see them in the summer. I would like to make more friends with gay people because It is very important to me that my children are expose to gay people. I brought them to the gay pride march this past summer in nyc and they seemed to enjoy the costumes and the music. Inevitably, children will use the word gay in a slur at school. Iwant them to know better, because they will have had a different experience. If one of my little boys turned out to be gay, then I would like for him to know that he is loved the way he is. Do they have a Gay pride parade in wales? Or are they mostly in the closet like here in my town?-anouk , "jo" wrote:>> I suppose it would be. Luckily I never heard any rudeness aboutWelsh people :-)> > Jo> - > peter VV > > Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:23 PM> Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub> > > You mean its a bit like calling us Welsh Sheep sh***ers?> > The Valley Vegan............> > jo wrote:> It used to be an insult, just as nigger was an insult to blackpeople. Now though, homosexuals call themselves queer, and I haveheard black people call themselves nigger. > > Jo> - > peter VV > > Friday, September 01, 2006 8:33 PM> Re: Firefighters disciplined for gayparade snub> > > Yeah, corse I heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I wasunder the impression that it was insulting to gays.> > P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow.> > The Valley Vegan.............> > fraggle wrote:> gay..homosexual..etc> you've never heard the term queer before?> > > > > peter VV > Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM > > Re: Firefighters disciplined for gayparade snub > > > "Queer"?> > > The Valley Vegan............> > Peter Kebbell wrote:> Hi Peter> > >I sort of get the impression that there must be few gayfiremen/women, or the ones that are> > keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I besilly again?> > There are a few - a lot of queer people have left thefire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even knowone or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anythingslightly different from the "normal" (as in what society callsacceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin. > > BB> Peter> > > > > > Peter H > > Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger. > If George Bush said that the Earth was flat, the headline wouldread, "Views Differ on Shape of the> Earth"> > > > > Peter H > > >--------> Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GBstorage with All New Mail. > > > > > Peter H > > Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.>To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

there seems to be a big schism between the US Episcopal and the UK Anglican Church over this...

the head of the US Church is much more inclusive of other people it seems, while the UK side is more conservative on this topic....

jo Sep 7, 2006 2:59 PM Re: Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub

 

Hi Peter

 

Unfortunately the church seems to be taking a nasty stand against homosexuals nowadays.

 

If George Bush said that the Earth was flat, the headline would read, "Views Differ on Shape of the Earth"

[Guest guest]

Would that include BNP rallies, KKK meetings, IRA rallies etc.........? The Valley Vegan...........jo <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi AnoukThat's what I think. I was surprised to hear that handing out leaflets waspart of their job, as I had assumed that they fought fires, attended roadaccidents etc. but if it is part of their job then they should hand them outat all events.Jo-"Anouk Sickler" Monday, September 04, 2006 7:48 PM Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub> my feeling is that a firefighter is a public duty job.>> Therefore, an individual persons opinion should not be taken into>

account.>> If a person signs up for that kind of job, he/she should deal with the> consequences and duties or quit.> Their personalities should not come into place, they are like soldiers> doing a job.>> The bottom line is that it is illegal to discriminate. To not> distribute flyers to people of certain sexual orientation is illegal.> Anti-discrimination is protected by law.>>> It is ok, (although sad) for someone to have racist thoughts in their> head, because> no one can control another persons thoughts. There is hatred.> What is not ok is to act upon those thoughts.>> I probably have pre-concieved notions of X, Y or Z group, but knowing> that pre-concieved notions are usually wrong and hurt, I give everyone> a fair chance at being a human first.>> The laws are there to protect,> because people cannot mature enough(on

their own) to not hate> because someone is different.>> -anouk>>>> , peter VV wrote:> >> > I`m sorry but I dissagree with the comparison for this particular> instance, although I do agree that these things tend to grow.> > Incidentally, my employers ( BT ) have made everyone take a half> hour diversity training course .......so now I know what a homosexual> is!......duh! talk about stating the bleedin obvious! Like as though> they`ve only recently existed!> >> > The Valley Vegan...............> >>>>>>>>> To send an email to - >

[Guest guest]

From what I can tell its nothing new with the church. More worrying is that some of the christian sects in America seem to be leading in this regard, and almost militant in their bible pushing especially with childrens education etc. The Valley Vegan................jo <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi Peter Unfortunately the church seems to be taking a nasty stand against homosexuals nowadays. It is true that it wasn't much spoken about when I was a kid - the first gay chap I knew was very outlandish (very brave) and

was very much like Julian Clary when he was younger. He was really good fun to know. Jo - peter VV Monday, September 04, 2006 8:21 PM Re: Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub We had a lesbian and gay mardi gras on the

weekend in Cardiff, ( now an annual event ).When I was younger, no-one dared to be openly gay in the valleys for fear of their own safety. Its not so bad now, but old attitudes are hard to shake. Look at this prat ( so called christian attitudes?) Christian held over anti-gay leaflets Sep 4 2006 Anna Hammond, South Wales Echo A christian protester has been arrested at Cardiff's

Mardi Gras. Stephen Green, director of Christian Voice, was handing out homophobic leaflets at the weekend festival when police swooped. His was the only arrest at the annual gay and lesbian celebration, which attracted around 40,000 people. He claims he distributed 1,000 leaflets before he was arrested. He has been charged with using threatening, abusive or insulting words. What a twat! The Valley Vegan.............. Anouk Sickler <zurumato wrote: The queer word, I have been hearing since the nineties, where gay people, tired of being belittled and people calling them names...decided to

own that word. If they own it, then the negative connotation is gone. To own a word is power.If they are using the word Queer in a positive, in a celebratory, in aproud way, then it hasn't got much hurt power does it?I do not have that many Gay friends, just two and they are both in newyork, so I only see them in the summer. I would like to make more friends with gay people because It is very important to me that my children are expose to gay people. I brought them to the gay pride march this past summer in nyc and they seemed to enjoy the costumes and the music. Inevitably, children will use the word gay in a slur at school. Iwant them to know better, because they will have had a different experience. If one of my little boys turned out to be gay, then I would like for him to know that he is loved the way he is. Do they have a Gay pride parade in wales? Or are they mostly in

the closet like here in my town?-anouk , "jo" wrote:>> I suppose it would be. Luckily I never heard any rudeness aboutWelsh people :-)> > Jo> - > peter VV > > Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:23 PM> Re: Firefighters disciplined for gay parade snub> > > You mean its a bit like calling us Welsh Sheep sh***ers?> > The Valley Vegan............> > jo wrote:> It used to be an insult, just as nigger was an insult to blackpeople. Now though, homosexuals call themselves queer, and I haveheard black people call themselves nigger. > > Jo> - > peter VV > > Friday,

September 01, 2006 8:33 PM> Re: Firefighters disciplined for gayparade snub> > > Yeah, corse I heard it, I just dont think it appropriate.I wasunder the impression that it was insulting to gays.> > P.S. its the Lesbian and gay mardi gras in Cardiff tomorrow.> > The Valley Vegan.............> > fraggle wrote:> gay..homosexual..etc> you've never heard the term queer before?> > > > > peter VV > Sep 1, 2006 12:06 PM > > Re: Firefighters disciplined for gayparade snub > > > "Queer"?> > > The Valley Vegan............> > Peter Kebbell wrote:> Hi Peter> > >I sort of get the impression that there must be few

gayfiremen/women, or the ones that are> > keep it very quiet from their colleagues?...or am I besilly again?> > There are a few - a lot of queer people have left thefire service because of prejudice from their colleagues - I even knowone or two of them! Sadly it's just like the police - anythingslightly different from the "normal" (as in what society callsacceptable), and they tend to treat you as a waste of skin. > > BB> Peter> > > > > > Peter H > > Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger. > If George Bush said that the Earth was flat, the headline wouldread, "Views Differ on Shape of the> Earth"> > > > > Peter H > > >--------> Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam

protection and 1GBstorage with All New Mail. > > > > > Peter H > > Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.>To send an email to -