Should read Endangered Rivers, was Raw Sewage in American Rivers

[Guest guest]

I find this article to have some BIG gaps in the reality check department.

One of the most endangered rivers in the U.S. is the Klamath. It is down to

a trickle and what is left is being polluted by farms. Farms that have

sprouted up with government help in a desert. A dam that is owned by a

company in Scotland.

 

Why are rivers and so forth in the U.S. owned or controlled by companies in

another country.

 

You want to see a river on the point of dying, take a trip up the Klamath!

 

Lynda

-

rvijay <rvijay07

 

Saturday, April 16, 2005 1:10 PM

Re: Raw Sewage in American Rivers

 

 

>

>

> , " rvijay " <rvijay07@m...> wrote:

> >

> > Read the entire report at:

> > americanrivers.org

> >

> > Vijay

>

>

> Here is the exact URL. It is the 2005 Report

>

http://www.americanrivers.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr001=y937gv1bu1.app6b

& abbr=AMR_ & page=NewsArticle & id=7193 & news_iv_ctrl=-1

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

, " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote:

>

> I find this article to have some BIG gaps in the reality check

department.

> One of the most endangered rivers in the U.S. is the Klamath. It is

down to

> a trickle and what is left is being polluted by farms. Farms that have

> sprouted up with government help in a desert. A dam that is owned by a

> company in Scotland.

>

> Why are rivers and so forth in the U.S. owned or controlled by

companies in

> another country.

>

> You want to see a river on the point of dying, take a trip up the

Klamath!

>

> Lynda

 

 

 

If you believe the above to be true, then E-mail this to

americanrivers.org They seem to be a sincere group.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

, " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote:

>

> I find this article to have some BIG gaps in the reality check

department.

> One of the most endangered rivers in the U.S. is the Klamath. It is

down to

> a trickle and what is left is being polluted by farms. Farms that have

> sprouted up with government help in a desert. A dam that is owned by a

> company in Scotland.

>

> Why are rivers and so forth in the U.S. owned or controlled by

companies in

> another country.

>

> You want to see a river on the point of dying, take a trip up the

Klamath!

>

> Lynda

>

 

They are aware of this problem. See site below:

http://www.waterconserve.info/articles/reader.asp?linkid=9570

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynda

 

> Why are rivers and so forth in the U.S. owned or controlled by companies

in

> another country.

 

If you're worried about that sort of thing, you might want to be asking why

the Federal Reserve Bank is owned and controlled by companies (well,

families) in another country.... rivers are the least of your worries in

that respect!!!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote:

 

> If you're worried about that sort of thing, you might want to be

asking why

> the Federal Reserve Bank is owned and controlled by companies (well,

> families) in another country.... rivers are the least of your worries in

> that respect!!!

>

> BB

> Peter

 

 

Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc.,

most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our

food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that

those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great

limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go

around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural

resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most

vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life.

This is just my humble opinion in this regard.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

We had some beautiful rivers up here once upon a time. When I was a kid we

could wade in them and swim in them and not have to worry. The Elk is now a

mud hole and a small child would be swallowed up by the mud. That is

compliments of the hostile takeover of Pacific Lumber. TX please go home!

 

The Eel was diverted so that more grapes and houses could be grown in Wine

Country. Now it is barely a wading creek but the Russian River runs year

round and is a lovely muddy green from the run-off from vineyards.

 

The Klamath was a beautiful river and since the dam that the company in

Scotland owns and the diversion for farming potatoes in a desert, it is

polluted, green and thousands of salmon died two years ago. The smell alone

was enough to gag you!

 

Living in the country, we are the next thing to self-sustaining. I can get

by with little or no money but water is important which is why we bought

property with two creeks. We are lucky but I have deep concerns for other

whose water is diverted to make some fat cat richer.

 

Lynda

-

rvijay <rvijay07

 

Saturday, April 16, 2005 5:19 PM

Re: Should read " Endangered Rivers, was Raw Sewage in

American Rivers

 

 

>

>

> , " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote:

>

> > If you're worried about that sort of thing, you might want to be

> asking why

> > the Federal Reserve Bank is owned and controlled by companies (well,

> > families) in another country.... rivers are the least of your worries in

> > that respect!!!

> >

> > BB

> > Peter

>

>

> Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc.,

> most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our

> food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that

> those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great

> limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go

> around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural

> resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most

> vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life.

> This is just my humble opinion in this regard.

>

> Vijay

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

, " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote:

>

>

> Living in the country, we are the next thing to self-sustaining. I

can get

> by with little or no money but water is important which is why we bought

> property with two creeks. We are lucky but I have deep concerns for

other

> whose water is diverted to make some fat cat richer.

>

> Lynda

 

 

Thanks for sharing. Homesteading can have some serious challenges.

Everyone needs to be aware of this.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

You've missed the point vijay - same difference.

 

Jo

 

> Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc.,

> most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our

> food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that

> those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great

> limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go

> around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural

> resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most

> vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life.

> This is just my humble opinion in this regard.

>

> Vijay

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

I read a report recently that stated that the amount of water needed

daily to satisfy the needs of the world population is twice the amount

needed to water the worlds golf courses. It was probably overstated

but there is still more than a grain of truth in it. Somehow I doubt

that if there is a shortage of water that the golf will be the first

thing to suffer.

 

-- In , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote:

> You've missed the point vijay - same difference.

>

> Jo

>

> > Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc.,

> > most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our

> > food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that

> > those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great

> > limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go

> > around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural

> > resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most

> > vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life.

> > This is just my humble opinion in this regard.

> >

> > Vijay

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To send an email to

-

> >

[Guest guest]

, " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote:

> You've missed the point vijay - same difference.

>

> Jo

>

 

 

People can live without money/banks. Several homesteaders do. However,

people can't live without water even for a few days. Also water is not

easily transferable as money. Water is limited, however Govts. print

more money when they want. Hence, water is real basic, precious and

vital. This is just my humble opinion.

 

If there are still differences of opinion then it is best that we

agree to disagree in this regard and move on.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

Hi Vijay

 

> Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc.,

> most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our

> food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that

> those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great

> limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go

> around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural

> resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most

> vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life.

> This is just my humble opinion in this regard.

 

However, if those who have control of the money decide to make it worthless,

the vast majority of us won't have the ability to survive... I'm no fan of

economies, but the fact is that they currently are the most significant

thing in the average person's life.... and let's not forget... water does

fall out of the sky, and at the moment there's nothing anyone can do to stop

that!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

In Arizona a large % of the golf courses use recycled water. In fact, one

place in AZ is talking about/may have already done fake snow with recycled

water.

 

I figure if they want a golf course then they *should* be required to use

recycled water or go without!

 

Lynda

-

Mary Minihane <minih

 

Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:31 AM

Re: Should read " Endangered Rivers, was Raw Sewage in

American Rivers

 

 

>

>

>

> I read a report recently that stated that the amount of water needed

> daily to satisfy the needs of the world population is twice the amount

> needed to water the worlds golf courses. It was probably overstated

> but there is still more than a grain of truth in it. Somehow I doubt

> that if there is a shortage of water that the golf will be the first

> thing to suffer.

>

> -- In , " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote:

> > You've missed the point vijay - same difference.

> >

> > Jo

> >

> > > Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc.,

> > > most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our

> > > food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that

> > > those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great

> > > limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go

> > > around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural

> > > resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most

> > > vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life.

> > > This is just my humble opinion in this regard.

> > >

> > > Vijay

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > To send an email to

> -

> > >

[Guest guest]

No but there are draught years (check out Africa) and there is acid rain

which makes some water worthless unless very expensive treatments are done

on it. Rivers are polluted past the point of redemption.

 

Me, I'm safe but the rest of ya better be thinking more about your water!

We're even in the process of setting up a still for veggie diesel! We have

choosen not to rely on the whims of places such as the DC whorehouse!

 

Lynda

-

Peter <metalscarab

 

Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:34 PM

Re: Re: Should read " Endangered Rivers, was Raw Sewage

in American Rivers

 

 

>

> Hi Vijay

>

> > Money is just a number. Specially, these days with credit cards etc.,

> > most money is digital. However, if someone else controls our

> > food/water supply then we are at their mercy big time. God forbid that

> > those who control these resources don't do major mistakes. A great

> > limitation with natural resources is that there is only so much to go

> > around, is limited and once it is over, then that is that. Natural

> > resources aren't easily transferred/borrowed. Fresh water is the most

> > vital and basic of all natural resources. No water, there is no life.

> > This is just my humble opinion in this regard.

>

> However, if those who have control of the money decide to make it

worthless,

> the vast majority of us won't have the ability to survive... I'm no fan of

> economies, but the fact is that they currently are the most significant

> thing in the average person's life.... and let's not forget... water does

> fall out of the sky, and at the moment there's nothing anyone can do to

stop

> that!

>

> BB

> Peter

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote:

> Hi Vijay

>

> However, if those who have control of the money decide to make it

worthless,

> the vast majority of us won't have the ability to survive... I'm no

fan of

> economies, but the fact is that they currently are the most significant

> thing in the average person's life.... and let's not forget... water

does

> fall out of the sky, and at the moment there's nothing anyone can do

to stop

> that!

>

> BB

> Peter

 

Hi Peter:

 

Agreed that most are at the mercy of money and are too busy to even

think otherwise. Hence, this dependance on money needs to be

eliminated or reduced.

 

Dr. Borsodi to me is a Hero. He is an economist, very educated and did

several amazing things. Dr. Borsodi saw the great depression, the

great crash etc., and gave frugal homesteading solutions. Atleast

reading on them is strongly suggested.

The site is www.soilandhealth.org

Search and read for Dr. Borsodi's E-Books such as this Ugly

Civilization and Flight From the City.

 

Basically, what he suggests is moving to the Country side and farming

on a small plot of land for survival. Dependance on money is greatly

reduced this way. This is also called homesteading. However, if water

in these areas is lost, then even even this last hope disappears. You

can also google for homesteading sites for more info.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

, " Lynda " <lurine@s...> wrote:

 

>

> Me, I'm safe but the rest of ya better be thinking more about your

water!

> We're even in the process of setting up a still for veggie diesel!

We have

> choosen not to rely on the whims of places such as the DC whorehouse!

>

> Lynda

 

 

This is what Dr. Borsodi talked about. Not becomming totally dependent

on money and others for the basics. I am very happy that you and your

family is way ahead in this regard. Wishing you and your family

further success and many more happy times.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

Of course - you do need money to buy a small plot of land to do small

homestead farming on!

 

Jo

> Basically, what he suggests is moving to the Country side and farming

> on a small plot of land for survival. Dependance on money is greatly

> reduced this way. This is also called homesteading. However, if water

> in these areas is lost, then even even this last hope disappears. You

> can also google for homesteading sites for more info.

>

> Vijay

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

, " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote:

> Of course - you do need money to buy a small plot of land to do small

> homestead farming on!

>

 

 

If you go rural, this is not hard. A few years of hard work and

savings would prepare one for this. That is why I suggest reading Dr.

Borsodi's book. It is free and is a good read.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

Please explain what you mean. I have been working all my life, and do not

think it is easy. Rural land is expensive around here.

 

Jo

 

 

> If you go rural, this is not hard. A few years of hard work and

> savings would prepare one for this. That is why I suggest reading Dr.

> Borsodi's book. It is free and is a good read.

>

> Vijay

To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Well, as a homesteader of several years, I can tell you that you might need

some money to start but if you are really living the homesteading lifestyle

then your outside needs decrease each year.

 

If the whole economy goes belly up, then there won't be taxes, etc. and

everything can be bartered.

 

For example, it will take us a maximum of 5 years to have our orchard and

garden totally self-sufficient. After that we will need money for taxes and

stuff like flour and sugar which we could raise but which would be too labor

intensive at this point.

 

We could raise our own sugar beets (they don't take up much space) and could

raise buckwwheat and barley and grind them instead of wheat flour.

 

However, we will be buying our wheat and grinding it ourselves within the

next 3 years (saving for the grinder).

 

We've already scouted out two huge berry patches that grow on public land,

so that will be the base of pies and jelly/jam until our raspberry,

marionberry and other berries are up to full production.

 

Also, for vegans, one acre would be sufficient for all except wheat and

sugar. The 5 acre minimum assumes one will be raising livestock. There is

also community homesteading which occurs in cities. Folks get together and

get permission to use a vacant lot. The group of families share the work

and there are several successful " homesteaders " who are growing almost all

their veggies on city lots using container gardening.

 

I think the real problem is that most folks just don't want to put in that

much effort. Doing it yourself is hard work. Heading to the corner store

is easy.

 

Lynda

-

Jo Cwazy <heartwork

>

> Of course - you do need money to buy a small plot of land to do small

> homestead farming on!

>

> Jo

> > Basically, what he suggests is moving to the Country side and farming

[Guest guest]

It is really all about choices, a different outlook on life. For example,

we spend less on organic food than most folks do on their groceries. I plan

and buy in bulk from a store that I searched out that will sell to me at 5%

over cost because I do order in bulk. Saves lots of money!

 

Another example, we recycle, EVERYTHING. Last week we went to the new

recycling center that we now have in town (a village to folks in some parts

of the world). We got enough money from recycling to buy 3 apple trees (2

Red Gravensteins, 1 Golden Delicious), an Early Italian prune, 6 grapes, 20

strawberries, a lilac, a wisteria and a pony pack of black pansies. The

last 3 weren't necessary, but we feel that one must also feed one's soul.

 

We are scouting around to see if we can do some trading for canning jars.

Lots of folks try it a year or two and get tired of it, so we're hoping that

instead of throwing them in the garbage, we can interest them in trading or

giving them to us.

 

Youngest kidlet wants some skirts. Instead of buying new skirts, we'll be

making a couple of old pairs of jeans into one skirt and cutting the top off

a dress for another skirt. She wants a heavy jacket for next winter and the

cool nights we have here. We have an old quilt that she likes and it is

going to become a jacket.

 

Lynda

-

Jo Cwazy <heartwork

 

Monday, April 18, 2005 2:48 PM

Re: Re: Should read " Endangered Rivers, was Raw Sewage

in American Rivers

 

 

>

> Please explain what you mean. I have been working all my life, and do not

> think it is easy. Rural land is expensive around here.

>

> Jo

>

>

> > If you go rural, this is not hard. A few years of hard work and

> > savings would prepare one for this. That is why I suggest reading Dr.

> > Borsodi's book. It is free and is a good read.

> >

> > Vijay

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To send an email to -

> >

[Guest guest]

, " Jo Cwazy " <heartwork@c...> wrote:

> Please explain what you mean. I have been working all my life, and

do not

> think it is easy. Rural land is expensive around here.

>

> Jo

>

>

 

 

It is evident that we are dealing with region specific issues here. UK

seems to be real expensive. Rural land in US/Canada are still

affordable. Are you allowed to live/work in Scotland ? How are land

prices there ?

 

Here in North America, they even give free land sometimes, please

refer to the site below:

http://www.kansasfreeland.com/

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

Hi Vijay

 

> If you go rural, this is not hard. A few years of hard work and

> savings would prepare one for this. That is why I suggest reading Dr.

> Borsodi's book. It is free and is a good read.

 

Again, depends entirely on where you come from... this may well be the case

in the US, but in the UK rural land is the most expensive, and way out of

the reach of someone currently earning an ordinary salary who doesn't

already own property.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynda

 

> Another example, we recycle, EVERYTHING. Last week we went to the new

> recycling center that we now have in town (a village to folks in some

parts

> of the world). We got enough money from recycling to buy 3 apple trees (2

> Red Gravensteins, 1 Golden Delicious), an Early Italian prune, 6 grapes,

20

> strawberries, a lilac, a wisteria and a pony pack of black pansies. The

> last 3 weren't necessary, but we feel that one must also feed one's soul.

 

You get *paid* for recycling stuff... in the UK it's really hard to recycle,

and at best you don't get charged! I recycle as much as I possibly can, but

it basically means seperating every sort of material out, and then taking it

on a 10 mile drive to a recycling centre, to dump it off... unless you're

classified as a " business " , in which case you have to pay! (fortunately I'm

not a business!!!!) I sure wish they paid for the stuff in this country -

might encourage a few more people to recycle!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote:

> Hi Vijay

>

> Again, depends entirely on where you come from... this may well be

the case

> in the US, but in the UK rural land is the most expensive, and way

out of

> the reach of someone currently earning an ordinary salary who doesn't

> already own property.

>

> BB

> Peter

 

 

This seems to be true. That is why more people seem to wish to

immigrate to Canada from the UK/France.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@c...> wrote:

>

> You get *paid* for recycling stuff... in the UK it's really hard to

recycle,

> and at best you don't get charged! I recycle as much as I possibly

can, but

> it basically means seperating every sort of material out, and then

taking it

> on a 10 mile drive to a recycling centre, to dump it off... unless

you're

> classified as a " business " , in which case you have to pay!

(fortunately I'm

> not a business!!!!) I sure wish they paid for the stuff in this

country -

> might encourage a few more people to recycle!

>

> BB

> Peter

 

 

Yes, regional issues certainly. Even here some places are waayyy more

expensive than others.

 

For some cheap real estate, take a look at these prices in Canadian

Dollars:

http://tinyurl.com/7yugy

 

Vijay ))