Peak Oil Crisis Challenged.

[Guest guest]

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

>

 

It may not be a complete solution. Once oil runs out there may not be a complete

solution. So we have to work towards partial solutions. Even after doing this,

there will still be several who will be affected.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

, " Craig Dearth " <cd39@e...> wrote:

> what do you plan to burn to heat the water to make the steam???

>

>

 

 

Coal/Wood.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

If nothing at all, steam engines can atleast be used to transport food.

 

RURAL/CITY

Here is a big factor. Rural folks will do very well in facing the oil crisis

than the City folks. They can grow their own food, barter and survive.

 

DOUBLE WHAMMY

Apart from Oil, we are also usingup precious water very fast. Water is as

precious as oil in some parts of the world already. Imagine being hit by a

double whammy of Oil and Water at the same time ? In the form of a drought

maybe? Comments/opinions in this regard are welcome.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

Hi Vijay

 

> The cops used them to detonate bombs. They can be powered by Electricity.

 

What makes the electricity?

 

At the moment it is made mostly by fossil fuels, and nuclear power...

neither of which are particularly good. Alternatively, you've got batteries

which are made from plastic.... oil derivative, and are hugely bad for the

environment in disposal unless you get rechargable, in which case you need a

method of recharging them! Back to good old oil again!!!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Vijay

 

> Startup costs of solar power are high. So use them to power a few robots.

Then get these robots to get cheaper fuel more

> efficiently such as timber, coal etc.,

 

And start up costs for oil and coal aren't high? I'm thinking of all that

surveying, digging of shafts, building of necessary machinery, etc.

 

That's really just an excuse so that companies don't have to think about the

issue.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote:

> Hi Vijay

>

> > Startup costs of solar power are high. So use them to power a few robots.

> Then get these robots to get cheaper fuel more

> > efficiently such as timber, coal etc.,

>

> And start up costs for oil and coal aren't high? I'm thinking of all that

> surveying, digging of shafts, building of necessary machinery, etc.

>

> That's really just an excuse so that companies don't have to think about the

> issue.

>

> BB

> Peter

 

 

In terms of startup costs for coal, we have already invested in it a long time

ago. Things are expensive these days. However, there is going to come a point

when everyone will be forced to go solar atleast partially. At taht point the

technology may also be advanced and due to mass change, going solar maybe

cheaper and easier.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

Found some related sites:

http://www.crystalsugar.com/media/news.archives/cargill.asp

 

https://www.inderscience.com/search/index.php?action=record & rec_id=1957 & prevQuer\

y= & ps=10 & m=or

 

http://www.cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_us_versus_world/

 

Great info. here. Please read carefully at leisure. Great alternatives being

researched and already tried in Bulk. Hope this good trend continues.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

Vijay,

besides trying incite a debate riot

what are you personally doing at home in order to help ease the pressure on the system??

do you have a stock pile of coal?

do you have the 10-15 trees needed (each year) in order to sustain yourself?

do you have about 20,000 litres (5000 gals) of water stored or rainfall catchments?

do you have solar panels on your roof?

do you heat your water from electric, gas or from the sun?

 

 

my point is at 46 years old I have some of these things already because when I was 20 I felt it necessary to start planning for what is to come (the major shortages)

if I am wrong well no harm done if I am right at least I have a little time in order to figure out what to do.

all the best

Craig

rvijay07 [rvijay07]Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>It may not be a complete solution. Once oil runs out there may not be a complete solution. So we have to work towards partial solutions. Even after doing this, there will still be several who will be affected.VijayTo send an email to -

[Guest guest]

oops I was cutting and pasting this should have been in my last email =o]]

 

these are all things we would each need in order to survive,

when the world was run by steam engine and horse drawn carriages

the population was about 1/6 of what it is now

and even then the forest were already falling at an increased rate

without the forest there would be very little rain

we would have to pump our water from the ocean in order to even drink and water our crops

not to mention all the fuel it would take to desalinate

Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged.

Vijay,

besides trying incite a debate riot

what are you personally doing at home in order to help ease the pressure on the system??

do you have a stock pile of coal?

do you have the 10-15 trees needed (each year) in order to sustain yourself?

do you have about 20,000 litres (5000 gals) of water stored or rainfall catchments?

do you have solar panels on your roof?

do you heat your water from electric, gas or from the sun?

 

 

my point is at 46 years old I have some of these things already because when I was 20 I felt it necessary to start planning for what is to come (the major shortages)

if I am wrong well no harm done if I am right at least I have a little time in order to figure out what to do.

all the best

Craig

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>It may not be a complete solution. Once oil runs out there may not be a complete solution. So we have to work towards partial solutions. Even after doing this, there will still be several who will be affected.Vijay

[Guest guest]

I too am a good source of methane, having untapped reserves! ( well thats what my wife tells me anyway!)

The Valley Vegan.........z.johnson wrote:

What about capturing cow farts? That's a huge source of methane.

[Guest guest]

, " Craig Dearth " <cd39@e...> wrote:

> Vijay,

> besides trying incite a debate riot

> what are you personally doing at home in order to help ease the pressure on

> the system??

> do you have a stock pile of coal?

> do you have the 10-15 trees needed (each year) in order to sustain yourself?

> do you have about 20,000 litres (5000 gals) of water stored or rainfall

> catchments?

> do you have solar panels on your roof?

> do you heat your water from electric, gas or from the sun?

>

>

> my point is at 46 years old I have some of these things already because

> when I was 20 I felt it necessary to start planning for what is to come (the

> major shortages)

> if I am wrong well no harm done if I am right at least I have a little time

> in order to figure out what to do.

> all the best

> Craig

 

 

I am not trying to incite a debate riot at all. I am sure we can all discuss

facts and opinions in a friendly manner for general information/improvement.

 

All the precautions you have taken are excellent. Unfortunately, due to personal

limitations I am unable to do the same. However, I have learned a lot about

frugal living on the net. Eventually, this also lead me to the path of Veganism.

 

I am mostly a lurker here. The Oil issue was a concern and I wanted to

learn/discuss more about it. I found what I wanted. Good alternatives/solutions

exist, this was the most important to know. My thanks to Fraggle and everyone

else who answered my questions patiently in this regard. I am returning back to

active lurking now for the most part.

 

Best Regards to everyone,

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

Come on Fraggle, you manage so well on your own.........especialy when someone touches a nerve.

All this talk of Oil Crisis, has just reminded me that I need to change the oil in my car!

 

The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

where's peter?

he ususally has a ton to say

well..both peter's do....

come on guys...don't let me dig this hole by myself....

teeheehee...

 

welcome to all the new ppl wh ohave joined in the last couple days..

fraggle rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 12:44 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>Don't worry about hogging the spotlight. Your responses are very informative/helpful and on topic. Please feel free to share all your opinions and any other related information that you have. Thank you in advance.VijayTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Free The Cow Farts

Lets start a campaign!

The Valley Vegan........heartwerk <Heartwork wrote:

That conjures up a strange picture :-) Job description 'cow fart collector'.Jo , z.johnson@m... wrote:> What about capturing cow farts? That's a huge source of methane.

[Guest guest]

Digressing slightly, I heard that the Native Americans, would dig a hole for their corn, then put a fish in the hole to act as fertiliser as it decomposes, then plant/sow on top of the fish. Not vegan , but enviromental sound? - ish?

Maybe I just dreampt it?

 

The Valley Vegan......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

well..hopefully someone else can supply a website..i'm at work

and i can promise you, corn is one of the most intensive crops to grow....it uses hordes of fertilizer, water, pesticides, etc..

not to mention those miles of monocultures .....you've basically got a one species prarrie that stretches across states rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:36 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Any web-sites in regards to Corn being an intensive crop would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.It doesn't seem that intensive as corn is freely traded in the Futures market, corn syrup is very popular and there are several products with corn.VijayTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I remember London in the pea-suopers when coal was used for heating. When

there was a fog it was thick dark yellow, and smelled disgusting. When you

blue your nose- your hanky contents were black (sorry for the unpleasant

detail). People suffered and died from bronchitis and other lung disease in

much larger numbers than since the Clean Air Act was brought in. If you

travel on a steam train you get covered in black soot smuts. I cannot

recommend coal.

 

Jo

 

>

>

> Coal/Wood.

>

> Vijay

[Guest guest]

Hi Vijay

 

> In terms of startup costs for coal, we have already invested in it a long

time ago.

 

Maybe things are different in the US, but in the UK the investment in the

coal industry completely died under Thatcher. All we are left with now is a

bunch of coal mines with rusted equipment which hasn't been used for 20+

years - if we were to start coal mining again it would mean firstly removing

all the useless equipment, and then replacing it with new equipment - so

you've got double the cost than if you were starting fresh!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

waaay back when when i was still in skool one of my propaganda manuals, i mean one of my skool books, had a woodcut image of a eastern tribesman poking holes in the ground and droppin in a fish er fish head... peter hurd Dec 4, 2004 6:39 AM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged.

Digressing slightly, I heard that the Native Americans, would dig a hole for their corn, then put a fish in the hole to act as fertiliser as it decomposes, then plant/sow on top of the fish. Not vegan , but enviromental sound? - ish?

Maybe I just dreampt it?

 

The Valley Vegan......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

well..hopefully someone else can supply a website..i'm at work

and i can promise you, corn is one of the most intensive crops to grow....it uses hordes of fertilizer, water, pesticides, etc..

not to mention those miles of monocultures .....you've basically got a one species prarrie that stretches across states rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:36 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Any web-sites in regards to Corn being an intensive crop would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.It doesn't seem that intensive as corn is freely traded in the Futures market, corn syrup is very popular and there are several products with corn.VijayTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Peter;

Coal-fired power plants are still used extensively in the US. Ask

Canada, which has tried to sue us for all the acid rain falling on

their forests.

sara

 

, " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote:

> Hi Vijay

>

> > In terms of startup costs for coal, we have already invested in

it a long

> time ago.

>

> Maybe things are different in the US, but in the UK the investment

in the

> coal industry completely died under Thatcher. All we are left with

now is a

> bunch of coal mines with rusted equipment which hasn't been used

for 20+

> years - if we were to start coal mining again it would mean

firstly removing

> all the useless equipment, and then replacing it with new

equipment - so

> you've got double the cost than if you were starting fresh!

>

> BB

> Peter

[Guest guest]

Wow, maybe it wasnt a dream.......but am I dreaming now? sleep typing?.....will I ever make another sensible comment again?

Unlikely.......

Fraggle what drink will you be celebrating Chrimbo with ( as if you need an excuse to have a drink!)?

I will be mostly drinking bottles of Black Sheep ale, or if I do get out and about and allowed in to a pub, Hieneken Export/Becks/ EVEN BUDWIESER!!! Tough being a vegan in pubs, you have to forgo taste for oblivion........

 

Digressing yet again......

 

The Valley Vegan.....

fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

waaay back when when i was still in skool one of my propaganda manuals, i mean one of my skool books, had a woodcut image of a eastern tribesman poking holes in the ground and droppin in a fish er fish head... peter hurd Dec 4, 2004 6:39 AM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged.

Digressing slightly, I heard that the Native Americans, would dig a hole for their corn, then put a fish in the hole to act as fertiliser as it decomposes, then plant/sow on top of the fish. Not vegan , but enviromental sound? - ish?

Maybe I just dreampt it?

 

The Valley Vegan......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

well..hopefully someone else can supply a website..i'm at work

and i can promise you, corn is one of the most intensive crops to grow....it uses hordes of fertilizer, water, pesticides, etc..

not to mention those miles of monocultures .....you've basically got a one species prarrie that stretches across states rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:36 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Any web-sites in regards to Corn being an intensive crop would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.It doesn't seem that intensive as corn is freely traded in the Futures market, corn syrup is very popular and there are several products with corn.VijayTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

> I will be mostly drinking bottles of Black Sheep ale

 

So, being Welsh... is this a euphemism???? :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Black Sheep Ale is a good bottle I can

vouch for too.

 

So not a Welsh thing necessarily though I

cannot warrant that is not also a euphemism

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peter

[metalscarab]

07 December 2004 18:53

 

Re: Re: Peak

Oil Crisis Challenged.

 

 

 

Hi Peter

 

 

 

 

 

> I will be mostly

drinking bottles of Black Sheep ale

 

 

 

 

 

So, being Welsh... is this a

euphemism???? :-)

 

 

 

 

 

BB

 

 

Peter

 

 

 

To

send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Peter,

Good question, all I need to do now is look up the blasted word!

euphemism?!

So what are you glugging this Yuletide?

The Valley Vegan........Peter <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

> I will be mostly drinking bottles of Black Sheep ale

 

So, being Welsh... is this a euphemism???? :-)

 

BB

PeterTo send an email to - Peter H

 

ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun!

[Guest guest]

as long as yer drinkin that black sheep in the bottle, and not on draft..wait..sorry..damn you, i mean draught...

peter hurd Dec 11, 2004 7:17 AM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged.

Hi Peter,

Good question, all I need to do now is look up the blasted word!

euphemism?!

So what are you glugging this Yuletide?

The Valley Vegan........Peter <metalscarab wrote:

 

Hi Peter

 

> I will be mostly drinking bottles of Black Sheep ale

 

So, being Welsh... is this a euphemism???? :-)

 

BB

PeterTo send an email to -

 

Peter H

 

 

 

 

 

ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

> Good question, all I need to do now is look up the blasted word!

> euphemism?!

 

Try... metaphor

 

> So what are you glugging this Yuletide?

 

Water, mostly! I might possibly splash out and have some orange juice.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

no holdin you back, you wild man... Peter Dec 11, 2004 10:35 AM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged.

 

Hi Peter

 

> Good question, all I need to do now is look up the blasted word!

> euphemism?!

 

Try... metaphor

 

> So what are you glugging this Yuletide?

 

Water, mostly! I might possibly splash out and have some orange juice.

 

BB

PeterTo send an email to -