Peak Oil Crisis Challenged.

[Guest guest]

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

>

 

Can't they use other alternative plants/veggies than corn ?

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

Hi Vijay

 

> Remember before oil, there were steam engines and steam ships. We can go

back to them atleast partially. Things like these

> can be used to make/ship ammo.

 

Steam engines and ships run on coal... with exactly the same problems as

we've been talking about for oil!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote:

 

> That's not as bad as it sounds... if these people aren't eating vegetables

> they'll be dead fairly quickly!!!

>

> BB

> Peter

 

 

They will most likely barter for some veggies with other omnis with farms.

besides they are probably used that way and don't care about a shorter life.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote:

> Hi Vijay

>

> Steam engines and ships run on coal... with exactly the same problems as

> we've been talking about for oil!

>

> BB

> Peter

 

Agreed. But atleast we will have sufficient coal left when the oil runs out as

coal has not been used for a long time in bulk. Also, how about using

lumber/wood in steam engines ?

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

but its always nary impossible to go backwards like that

when we had steam engines(run on coal, wood, wot have you..heck they burned mummies in egypt...) remember they built em up slowly.....you can't just switch backwards instantaneously...you have to have a base to build upon...one layer upon another....

where ya gonna get the fuel?

how ya gonna dig the coal?

we gonna go back to havin 12 yr olds in the mines?

how you gonna get it to market?

 

and..most americans live in a city...thats just the way we are now..i can't speak fer the limeys on here, er anyone else..but..here, we are lookin at mass starvation within days...

everything is shipped from somewhere else..we've built our whole system up to travel enormous distances...corn is grown in the midwest, then processed somewhere else, then packaged some other place, then shipped to some warehouse, then to yer local supermarket...

any break in that link and the card house all crumbles...

 

picture yer normal US city

where they gonna get food?

water?

electricity?

medicines?

who's gonna care fer em?

 

of course this presages that oil just goes *poof*

it ain't gonna be quite like that

but..be ready fer when the bottom falls out..and oil hits over $100/barrel rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:42 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>Remember before oil, there were steam engines and steam ships. We can go back to them atleast partially. Things like these can be used to make/ship ammo.Also, hunting seems to be the first human profession. Sadly, one can easily look back for very early reference, use crude tools and proceed.Vijay To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

It is funny but some of the hunters even hunt for charity. Here is a site in

this regard:

 

http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/akpages/hunger.htm

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

>

 

We need programmed electric robots, like terminators to work in the coal mines.

Also such robots maybe excellent to do tasks if oil runs out. The technology is

out there. Maybe their time has come. Welcome the real TERMINATORS !!!!

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

Hi Vijay

 

> Agreed. But atleast we will have sufficient coal left when the oil runs

out as coal has not been used for a long time in bulk.

> Also, how about using lumber/wood in steam engines ?

 

OK... let's just destroy the earth even more by ripping out all the coal as

well as the oil, and then keep on pumping out them noxious gasses!!! We come

back down to the problem of not having a planet left that we can live on.

 

As for wood... double whammy - not only do you pump out vast amounts of

noxious gasses, you also chop down the one thing that can convert it back to

oxygen!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Vijay

 

> We need programmed electric robots, like terminators to work in the coal

mines. Also such robots maybe excellent to do

> tasks if oil runs out. The technology is out there. Maybe their time has

come. Welcome the real TERMINATORS !!!!

 

But what are we going to use to power the robots???

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

mining and enriching uranium ain't to cheery either! Peter Dec 2, 2004 4:47 PM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. > I realize I may be opening up HUGE can of worms here, but could> there be such thing as a nuclear powered car?OK - I have to say, having been very close to getting caught in a car parkfire a few years ago, and hearing the explosions of petrol tanks as the firespread - the thought of a nuclear powered car is just too frightening tothink of... a small car park fire could destroy an entire city!And even if there wer some fool-proof way to make sure that didn't happen,think of the problem of disposing of the used fuel rods and other wonderfulnuclear waste!BBPeterTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

my guess is prolly not...

corn ferments readily and pretty cleanly...

i mean, you COULD use any fruit er grain more er less to produce it, but you'll be gettin other things along with the bargain...corn is a pretty simple fermenter...and doesn't leave anything behind more er less (compared to say barley, which has to be sprouted first, then malted, (kilned), then boiled, then you have to remove the husk and...)

thats my thoughts on it anyways... rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:44 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>Can't they use other alternative plants/veggies than corn ?VijayTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote:

> OK... let's just destroy the earth even more by ripping out all the coal as

> well as the oil, and then keep on pumping out them noxious gasses!!! We come

> back down to the problem of not having a planet left that we can live on.

>

> As for wood... double whammy - not only do you pump out vast amounts of

> noxious gasses, you also chop down the one thing that can convert it back to

> oxygen!

>

> BB

> Peter

 

 

Everything you are saying is very true. There are some beliefs that all the oil

etc., is present in Earth to be a bigger cushion and that one must not disturb

deep inside the Earth as we live on its crust. However, man has taken this route

and honestly may never slow down unless something drastic happens. I was just

exploring options. Hope the rest here join in this discussion.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

ummmm

ok..lets step back again...

1st off, the main reason we can have 6 billion ppl on this planet is because of a relatively(if immensely destructive) cheap power source..

once it is no longer cheap, you can't support the 6 billion ppl anymore...

no ones gonna be bartering anything besides blood be my thought....

on a related note

assumin oil hits $100/barrel...it would behoove everyone to become veggies, as growin all those crops to feed to cattle would be bloody insane,,,,,not like it isn;t insane already rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:48 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , "Peter" <metalscarab@b...> wrote:> That's not as bad as it sounds... if these people aren't eating vegetables> they'll be dead fairly quickly!!!> > BB> PeterThey will most likely barter for some veggies with other omnis with farms. besides they are probably used that way and don't care about a shorter life.VijayTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

along the same lines..at least in the West, we need to design our cities better

no more sprawl, no more suburbs...

better public transport

you can save a TON of energy if we all didn;t tool around in our personal metal boxes

of course..i'm just as guilty as the enxt person, as i get around on my two wheeled metal contraption..tho, i do get 70mpg..

take that hummer!!!

hahahahahahaha

if only BART went more places..and didn't bloody well stop at midnite

ah well..one deals with the cards you've dealt with

ah crap,...a 2 of spades, a 4 of diamonds and the instructions card for bridge...poo... Peter Dec 3, 2004 10:44 AM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged.

 

Hi Fraggle

 

> where's peter?

> he ususally has a ton to say

 

I'm still around... just pretty busy at the moment... I'm also not greatly knowledgable on the whole oil thing... just that it's not particularly good for the environment, and the quicker we get alternatives into affordable places the better.

 

Personally, I'm all for solar power for things like cars, and wind and water power for most electricity and other uses. I don't think nuclear helps anything at all as you have just as many problems!

 

BB

Peter

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Hey Vijay

coal is still used by the ton to power electric plants....

a huge source of acid rain.... rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:50 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , "Peter" <metalscarab@b...> wrote:> Hi Vijay> > Steam engines and ships run on coal... with exactly the same problems as> we've been talking about for oil!> > BB> PeterAgreed. But atleast we will have sufficient coal left when the oil runs out as coal has not been used for a long time in bulk. Also, how about using lumber/wood in steam engines ?Vijay To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

wot, steam powered robots???

wot is this, Deadlands?

(sorry, you have to be an RPG geek to get the reference)

wots gonna power the robots?

how ya build em?

out of wot?

ya need oil again..back to square one rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:57 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>We need programmed electric robots, like terminators to work in the coal mines. Also such robots maybe excellent to do tasks if oil runs out. The technology is out there. Maybe their time has come. Welcome the real TERMINATORS !!!!VijayTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

>

 

The cops used them to detonate bombs. They can be powered by Electricity.

 

There are robots in use in several factories now.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

we can all live on the giant slag heap left behind.....

won't that be neat!!!!!

welcome to planet wormwood....

 

on a related note...i read somewhere in the last, oh, year er so, that some other basic element is runnin low..some metal

fer the life of me i can't remember wot it is..but its something REAL basic..like aluminum(bauxite), tungsten, er like tin...

it might have been tin

anyways..something that we have used fer quite awhile, and is actually startin to run out of sources....

yay!!

anyone up fer a nice move to pluto er neptune?

wear yer mittens, its chilly up thar Peter Dec 3, 2004 2:36 PM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Hi Vijay> Agreed. But atleast we will have sufficient coal left when the oil runsout as coal has not been used for a long time in bulk.> Also, how about using lumber/wood in steam engines ?OK... let's just destroy the earth even more by ripping out all the coal aswell as the oil, and then keep on pumping out them noxious gasses!!! We comeback down to the problem of not having a planet left that we can live on.As for wood... double whammy - not only do you pump out vast amounts ofnoxious gasses, you also chop down the one thing that can convert it back tooxygen!BBPeterTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

and where do you get the electricity? rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 3:29 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>The cops used them to detonate bombs. They can be powered by Electricity.There are robots in use in several factories now.Vijay To send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

>

 

Electricity from Wind, solar and hydroelectric projects. If oil runs really low,

nuclear will be used to the full extent to produce electricity and the waste

will be strewn around.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

If we have power from solar, etc, then why would we have robots diggin fer coal? rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 3:43 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>Electricity from Wind, solar and hydroelectric projects. If oil runs really low, nuclear will be used to the full extent to produce electricity and the waste will be strewn around.VijayTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

>

 

Startup costs of solar power are high. So use them to power a few robots. Then

get these robots to get cheaper fuel more efficiently such as timber, coal etc.,

 

With oil running low and considering safety etc., there is a good chance this

will happen.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

start up costs fer everything are high

100 yrs ago it probably was a silly proposition if someone wanted you to open a gas station in Des Moines..

u need incentives and loans to bring the cost of solar down..in the long run its much better fer the environment, economy, etc.. rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 3:59 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>Startup costs of solar power are high. So use them to power a few robots. Then get these robots to get cheaper fuel more efficiently such as timber, coal etc.,With oil running low and considering safety etc., there is a good chance this will happen.VijayTo send an email to -

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Moreover, we had steam engiens and horse drawn carriages before. No harm in returning to those. These can offer atleast a partial solution. Comments welcome in this regard.certainly...

you can't stick 300,000,000 americans back into horses and buggies...

you can't feed 300,000,000 americans with the output from steam engines and animal labor..

not to mention, i doubt horses would be very pleased to be luggin us all over hades and creation again....

re-enslaving masses of horses really doesn't appeal to me

how would you feed the horses? where would you house them?

we'd have to tear down our citiies and start all over again..

not a bad concept mind you

hahahahahahah

[Guest guest]

what do you plan to burn to heat the water to make the steam???

 

 

 

rvijay07 [rvijay07]Saturday, December 04, 2004 5:43 AM Subject: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>Remember before oil, there were steam engines and steam ships. We can go back to them atleast partially. Things like these can be used to make/ship ammo.Also, hunting seems to be the first human profession. Sadly, one can easily look back for very early reference, use crude tools and proceed.Vijay To send an email to -