Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote: > It may not be a complete solution. Once oil runs out there may not be a complete solution. So we have to work towards partial solutions. Even after doing this, there will still be several who will be affected. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 , " Craig Dearth " <cd39@e...> wrote: > what do you plan to burn to heat the water to make the steam??? > > Coal/Wood. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 If nothing at all, steam engines can atleast be used to transport food. RURAL/CITY Here is a big factor. Rural folks will do very well in facing the oil crisis than the City folks. They can grow their own food, barter and survive. DOUBLE WHAMMY Apart from Oil, we are also usingup precious water very fast. Water is as precious as oil in some parts of the world already. Imagine being hit by a double whammy of Oil and Water at the same time ? In the form of a drought maybe? Comments/opinions in this regard are welcome. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Hi Vijay > The cops used them to detonate bombs. They can be powered by Electricity. What makes the electricity? At the moment it is made mostly by fossil fuels, and nuclear power... neither of which are particularly good. Alternatively, you've got batteries which are made from plastic.... oil derivative, and are hugely bad for the environment in disposal unless you get rechargable, in which case you need a method of recharging them! Back to good old oil again!!! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Hi Vijay > Startup costs of solar power are high. So use them to power a few robots. Then get these robots to get cheaper fuel more > efficiently such as timber, coal etc., And start up costs for oil and coal aren't high? I'm thinking of all that surveying, digging of shafts, building of necessary machinery, etc. That's really just an excuse so that companies don't have to think about the issue. BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 , " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote: > Hi Vijay > > > Startup costs of solar power are high. So use them to power a few robots. > Then get these robots to get cheaper fuel more > > efficiently such as timber, coal etc., > > And start up costs for oil and coal aren't high? I'm thinking of all that > surveying, digging of shafts, building of necessary machinery, etc. > > That's really just an excuse so that companies don't have to think about the > issue. > > BB > Peter In terms of startup costs for coal, we have already invested in it a long time ago. Things are expensive these days. However, there is going to come a point when everyone will be forced to go solar atleast partially. At taht point the technology may also be advanced and due to mass change, going solar maybe cheaper and easier. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Found some related sites: http://www.crystalsugar.com/media/news.archives/cargill.asp https://www.inderscience.com/search/index.php?action=record & rec_id=1957 & prevQuer\ y= & ps=10 & m=or http://www.cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_us_versus_world/ Great info. here. Please read carefully at leisure. Great alternatives being researched and already tried in Bulk. Hope this good trend continues. Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Vijay, besides trying incite a debate riot what are you personally doing at home in order to help ease the pressure on the system?? do you have a stock pile of coal? do you have the 10-15 trees needed (each year) in order to sustain yourself? do you have about 20,000 litres (5000 gals) of water stored or rainfall catchments? do you have solar panels on your roof? do you heat your water from electric, gas or from the sun? my point is at 46 years old I have some of these things already because when I was 20 I felt it necessary to start planning for what is to come (the major shortages) if I am wrong well no harm done if I am right at least I have a little time in order to figure out what to do. all the best Craig rvijay07 [rvijay07]Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>It may not be a complete solution. Once oil runs out there may not be a complete solution. So we have to work towards partial solutions. Even after doing this, there will still be several who will be affected.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 oops I was cutting and pasting this should have been in my last email =o]] these are all things we would each need in order to survive, when the world was run by steam engine and horse drawn carriages the population was about 1/6 of what it is now and even then the forest were already falling at an increased rate without the forest there would be very little rain we would have to pump our water from the ocean in order to even drink and water our crops not to mention all the fuel it would take to desalinate Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Vijay, besides trying incite a debate riot what are you personally doing at home in order to help ease the pressure on the system?? do you have a stock pile of coal? do you have the 10-15 trees needed (each year) in order to sustain yourself? do you have about 20,000 litres (5000 gals) of water stored or rainfall catchments? do you have solar panels on your roof? do you heat your water from electric, gas or from the sun? my point is at 46 years old I have some of these things already because when I was 20 I felt it necessary to start planning for what is to come (the major shortages) if I am wrong well no harm done if I am right at least I have a little time in order to figure out what to do. all the best Craig , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>It may not be a complete solution. Once oil runs out there may not be a complete solution. So we have to work towards partial solutions. Even after doing this, there will still be several who will be affected.Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 I too am a good source of methane, having untapped reserves! ( well thats what my wife tells me anyway!) The Valley Vegan.........z.johnson wrote: What about capturing cow farts? That's a huge source of methane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 , " Craig Dearth " <cd39@e...> wrote: > Vijay, > besides trying incite a debate riot > what are you personally doing at home in order to help ease the pressure on > the system?? > do you have a stock pile of coal? > do you have the 10-15 trees needed (each year) in order to sustain yourself? > do you have about 20,000 litres (5000 gals) of water stored or rainfall > catchments? > do you have solar panels on your roof? > do you heat your water from electric, gas or from the sun? > > > my point is at 46 years old I have some of these things already because > when I was 20 I felt it necessary to start planning for what is to come (the > major shortages) > if I am wrong well no harm done if I am right at least I have a little time > in order to figure out what to do. > all the best > Craig I am not trying to incite a debate riot at all. I am sure we can all discuss facts and opinions in a friendly manner for general information/improvement. All the precautions you have taken are excellent. Unfortunately, due to personal limitations I am unable to do the same. However, I have learned a lot about frugal living on the net. Eventually, this also lead me to the path of Veganism. I am mostly a lurker here. The Oil issue was a concern and I wanted to learn/discuss more about it. I found what I wanted. Good alternatives/solutions exist, this was the most important to know. My thanks to Fraggle and everyone else who answered my questions patiently in this regard. I am returning back to active lurking now for the most part. Best Regards to everyone, Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Come on Fraggle, you manage so well on your own.........especialy when someone touches a nerve. All this talk of Oil Crisis, has just reminded me that I need to change the oil in my car! The Valley Vegan.......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: where's peter? he ususally has a ton to say well..both peter's do.... come on guys...don't let me dig this hole by myself.... teeheehee... welcome to all the new ppl wh ohave joined in the last couple days.. fraggle rvijay07 Dec 2, 2004 12:44 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. , fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:>Don't worry about hogging the spotlight. Your responses are very informative/helpful and on topic. Please feel free to share all your opinions and any other related information that you have. Thank you in advance.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Free The Cow Farts Lets start a campaign! The Valley Vegan........heartwerk <Heartwork wrote: That conjures up a strange picture :-) Job description 'cow fart collector'.Jo , z.johnson@m... wrote:> What about capturing cow farts? That's a huge source of methane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Digressing slightly, I heard that the Native Americans, would dig a hole for their corn, then put a fish in the hole to act as fertiliser as it decomposes, then plant/sow on top of the fish. Not vegan , but enviromental sound? - ish? Maybe I just dreampt it? The Valley Vegan......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: well..hopefully someone else can supply a website..i'm at work and i can promise you, corn is one of the most intensive crops to grow....it uses hordes of fertilizer, water, pesticides, etc.. not to mention those miles of monocultures .....you've basically got a one species prarrie that stretches across states rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:36 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Any web-sites in regards to Corn being an intensive crop would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.It doesn't seem that intensive as corn is freely traded in the Futures market, corn syrup is very popular and there are several products with corn.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 I remember London in the pea-suopers when coal was used for heating. When there was a fog it was thick dark yellow, and smelled disgusting. When you blue your nose- your hanky contents were black (sorry for the unpleasant detail). People suffered and died from bronchitis and other lung disease in much larger numbers than since the Clean Air Act was brought in. If you travel on a steam train you get covered in black soot smuts. I cannot recommend coal. Jo > > > Coal/Wood. > > Vijay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Hi Vijay > In terms of startup costs for coal, we have already invested in it a long time ago. Maybe things are different in the US, but in the UK the investment in the coal industry completely died under Thatcher. All we are left with now is a bunch of coal mines with rusted equipment which hasn't been used for 20+ years - if we were to start coal mining again it would mean firstly removing all the useless equipment, and then replacing it with new equipment - so you've got double the cost than if you were starting fresh! BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 waaay back when when i was still in skool one of my propaganda manuals, i mean one of my skool books, had a woodcut image of a eastern tribesman poking holes in the ground and droppin in a fish er fish head... peter hurd Dec 4, 2004 6:39 AM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Digressing slightly, I heard that the Native Americans, would dig a hole for their corn, then put a fish in the hole to act as fertiliser as it decomposes, then plant/sow on top of the fish. Not vegan , but enviromental sound? - ish? Maybe I just dreampt it? The Valley Vegan......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: well..hopefully someone else can supply a website..i'm at work and i can promise you, corn is one of the most intensive crops to grow....it uses hordes of fertilizer, water, pesticides, etc.. not to mention those miles of monocultures .....you've basically got a one species prarrie that stretches across states rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:36 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Any web-sites in regards to Corn being an intensive crop would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.It doesn't seem that intensive as corn is freely traded in the Futures market, corn syrup is very popular and there are several products with corn.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Peter; Coal-fired power plants are still used extensively in the US. Ask Canada, which has tried to sue us for all the acid rain falling on their forests. sara , " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote: > Hi Vijay > > > In terms of startup costs for coal, we have already invested in it a long > time ago. > > Maybe things are different in the US, but in the UK the investment in the > coal industry completely died under Thatcher. All we are left with now is a > bunch of coal mines with rusted equipment which hasn't been used for 20+ > years - if we were to start coal mining again it would mean firstly removing > all the useless equipment, and then replacing it with new equipment - so > you've got double the cost than if you were starting fresh! > > BB > Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Wow, maybe it wasnt a dream.......but am I dreaming now? sleep typing?.....will I ever make another sensible comment again? Unlikely....... Fraggle what drink will you be celebrating Chrimbo with ( as if you need an excuse to have a drink!)? I will be mostly drinking bottles of Black Sheep ale, or if I do get out and about and allowed in to a pub, Hieneken Export/Becks/ EVEN BUDWIESER!!! Tough being a vegan in pubs, you have to forgo taste for oblivion........ Digressing yet again...... The Valley Vegan..... fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: waaay back when when i was still in skool one of my propaganda manuals, i mean one of my skool books, had a woodcut image of a eastern tribesman poking holes in the ground and droppin in a fish er fish head... peter hurd Dec 4, 2004 6:39 AM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Digressing slightly, I heard that the Native Americans, would dig a hole for their corn, then put a fish in the hole to act as fertiliser as it decomposes, then plant/sow on top of the fish. Not vegan , but enviromental sound? - ish? Maybe I just dreampt it? The Valley Vegan......fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: well..hopefully someone else can supply a website..i'm at work and i can promise you, corn is one of the most intensive crops to grow....it uses hordes of fertilizer, water, pesticides, etc.. not to mention those miles of monocultures .....you've basically got a one species prarrie that stretches across states rvijay07 Dec 3, 2004 1:36 PM Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Any web-sites in regards to Corn being an intensive crop would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.It doesn't seem that intensive as corn is freely traded in the Futures market, corn syrup is very popular and there are several products with corn.VijayTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Hi Peter > I will be mostly drinking bottles of Black Sheep ale So, being Welsh... is this a euphemism???? :-) BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Black Sheep Ale is a good bottle I can vouch for too. So not a Welsh thing necessarily though I cannot warrant that is not also a euphemism Peter [metalscarab] 07 December 2004 18:53 Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Hi Peter > I will be mostly drinking bottles of Black Sheep ale So, being Welsh... is this a euphemism???? :-) BB Peter To send an email to - ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ This message is confidential and is intended for the addressee only; unless clearly stated that this disclaimer should not apply, this e-mail is not intended to create legally binding commitments on behalf of FDM Group Plc, nor do its contents reflect the corporate views or policies of FDM. Any unauthorised disclosure, use or dissemination, either whole or partial, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of the message, please notify the sender immediately. ______________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ______________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Hi Peter, Good question, all I need to do now is look up the blasted word! euphemism?! So what are you glugging this Yuletide? The Valley Vegan........Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter > I will be mostly drinking bottles of Black Sheep ale So, being Welsh... is this a euphemism???? :-) BB PeterTo send an email to - Peter H ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 as long as yer drinkin that black sheep in the bottle, and not on draft..wait..sorry..damn you, i mean draught... peter hurd Dec 11, 2004 7:17 AM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Hi Peter, Good question, all I need to do now is look up the blasted word! euphemism?! So what are you glugging this Yuletide? The Valley Vegan........Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter > I will be mostly drinking bottles of Black Sheep ale So, being Welsh... is this a euphemism???? :-) BB PeterTo send an email to - Peter H ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Hi Peter > Good question, all I need to do now is look up the blasted word! > euphemism?! Try... metaphor > So what are you glugging this Yuletide? Water, mostly! I might possibly splash out and have some orange juice. BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 no holdin you back, you wild man... Peter Dec 11, 2004 10:35 AM Re: Re: Peak Oil Crisis Challenged. Hi Peter > Good question, all I need to do now is look up the blasted word! > euphemism?! Try... metaphor > So what are you glugging this Yuletide? Water, mostly! I might possibly splash out and have some orange juice. BB PeterTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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