Guest guest Report post Posted May 24, 2003 You know, I used to be a supporter of Amnesty until I heard they had funded some cruel experiment on pigs to prove suffering under torture or some bullshit like that. Now, I'm just a little cautious about their " moral authority " . Tom - " Peter " <Snowbow Monday, May 19, 2003 10:27 AM Re: regarding unclean women > Hi Tom > > > I agree the US has done some serious damage in it's military adventurism > > over the decades, but by the same token, I think it's a little too pat and > > simplistic to only blame them (or the Brits). I mean, doesn't the Chinese > > Gov. under Chairman Mao have to wear some of the blame for the " great leap > > forward " , when an estimated 20,000,000 peasants died of starvation and > > imprisonment? Doesn't the North Korean Gov. take some of the blame for > > letting it's own people starve, when Sth Korea is so (comparatively) > > wealthy? > > Ever heard the phrase " two wrongs don't make a right " ? Just because other > people have done something wrong doesn't just mean that the US government > has behaved OK. > > > And don't people like Milosevic have to own up to war crimes they > > and their cohorts committed? > > Milosevic's cohorts - that would presumably include Bush Sr who was > President of the US when America helped Milosevic into a position of power. > > > By all means, bring the US Gov. to account for > > it's sins, but don't let other regimes off the hook with their > > responsibility for crimes done in their name. > > I agree completely - but I have a philosophy of tackling the worst first, > and there aren't many worse than the US government when it comes to world > atrocities. In 1996 an Amnesty International report stated: " Throughout the > world, on any given day, a man, woman or child is likely to be displaced, > tortured, killed or " disappeared " , at the hands of governments or armed > political groups. More often than not, the United States shares the blame " - > I would say that warrant attention, wouldn't you? > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 24, 2003 Hi Danielle > The US helped put the Taliban in power, or at the least, created the > conditions that enabled them to take over. The US helped Hussein fight > Iran. They all but dared Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait, but after he did, > something he did pissed of Bush I. The US government creates monsters and > then acts surprised when they bite us. I fear you slightly understate the US role. The US actually *paid* Hussein to invade Iran (in weapons). In Kuwait, Hussein approached the American Ambassador to ask whether America would object to an invasion of Kuwait, since Kuwait were involved in slant drilling on Iraq's borders, thereby stealing Iraqi oil resources. The American Ambassador said " no problem " . Then something rather interesting happened. Osama Bin Laden (who had been another good pal of the US administration) didn't like the " secular infidel " invading a Muslim country, so he called on all Al Qaeda operatives to travel to Saudi Arabia to form an army to repel Saddam Hussein, and to finish the job by ensuring that Hussein was removed from power in Iraq as well. The US realised that Al Qaeda was about to steal all the glory, so went back on what they had originally said to Hussein and rallied a UN-sanctioned attack to repel Iraq from Kuwait. They then failed to do what AL Qaeda had intended to do, and stopped short of removing Hussein. And we wonder why Bin Laden hates America!!! BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release 19/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 24, 2003 Fine, but at least I know that Bush = Liar. The Bush family is so in bed with the Saudis, the current " president " left Saudi Arabia off a list of countries that have no religious freedom. Danielle " This is your American dream Everything is simple in the white and the black You will never need to see the grey anymore You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear ----Original Message Follows---- " Peter " <Snowbow Re: regarding unclean women Sat, 24 May 2003 09:12:50 +0100 Hi Danielle > The US helped put the Taliban in power, or at the least, created the > conditions that enabled them to take over. The US helped Hussein fight > Iran. They all but dared Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait, but after he did, > something he did pissed of Bush I. The US government creates monsters and > then acts surprised when they bite us. I fear you slightly understate the US role. The US actually *paid* Hussein to invade Iran (in weapons). In Kuwait, Hussein approached the American Ambassador to ask whether America would object to an invasion of Kuwait, since Kuwait were involved in slant drilling on Iraq's borders, thereby stealing Iraqi oil resources. The American Ambassador said " no problem " . Then something rather interesting happened. Osama Bin Laden (who had been another good pal of the US administration) didn't like the " secular infidel " invading a Muslim country, so he called on all Al Qaeda operatives to travel to Saudi Arabia to form an army to repel Saddam Hussein, and to finish the job by ensuring that Hussein was removed from power in Iraq as well. The US realised that Al Qaeda was about to steal all the glory, so went back on what they had originally said to Hussein and rallied a UN-sanctioned attack to repel Iraq from Kuwait. They then failed to do what AL Qaeda had intended to do, and stopped short of removing Hussein. And we wonder why Bin Laden hates America!!! BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release 19/05/03 _______________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2003 Peter, Unfortunately, calling people names does not constitute an " argument " , but is a well-known diversionary technique to avoid the point and put the opponent on the defensive. Tom - " Peter " <Snowbow Friday, May 23, 2003 8:02 AM Re: regarding unclean women > Hi Tom > > > You know, I used to be a supporter of Amnesty until I heard they had > funded > > some cruel experiment on pigs to prove suffering under torture or some > > bullshit like that. Now, I'm just a little cautious about their " moral > > authority " . > > Great argument - let's just ignore the evidence because we don't like one > thing the organisation has done. Rather than just being beligerent, how > about you provide some alternative facts to support your somewhat thin > arguments? > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release 19/05/03 > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 25, 2003 So far the labels you've given me are ignorant, beligerent (sic), bullying and very dangerous... OUCH! Once beyond primary school, the name calling starts to look a bit embarrassing. Maybe you should keep this list strictly for people who agree with you, and frankly, I'm not sure it's worth my time humouring such small minds. With this in mind, as a dissenter amongst those who don't tolerate dissent, rest assured I won't be raising your blood pressure any more. Tom - " Peter " <Snowbow Friday, May 23, 2003 8:01 AM Re: regarding unclean women > Hi Tom > > > You don't seem to understand that getting rid of the Taliban regime was > not > > a " war crimes " tribunal, no more than getting Japan out of the South > Pacific > > in WW2 required a " trial " (in fact many of the worst Japanese war > criminals > > got off scot free). Obviously the only way they were going to go was by > > military intervention, not by setting up some sort of International Court > of > > Justice. No, I don't know the Taliban personally, but I'm sure there are > > plenty of Afghanis who don't doubt they exist. > > In that case, I accuse you of being a member of the Taliban. You have no > right to a trial, because human rights don't count for people who are > accused of being Taliban. You should now be locked up in a battery cage and > submitted to frequent torture simply because I have made that accusation. > > I can't quite work out whether you are really as ignorant as you make out by > stating that people should be tortured without a right to a trial, or > whether you are just being deliberately beligerent. I hope it's the second, > because if you are really that ignorant, you are a very dangerous person. > > Incidentally, at least 10 members of American administrations of the past 15 > years (including Bush Sr) are wanted in Japan for war crimes! > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release 19/05/03 > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2003 Tom > rest assured I won't be raising your blood > pressure any more. I certainly hope you mean that - since you started posting last week the numbers on the list have stopped steadily increasing as they were, and we have lost 27 members. I guess I'm not the only one fed up with you avoiding discussion and just being rude and insulting. Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release 19/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
