Guest guest Report post Posted May 12, 2003 Sorry, I Have not figured out how to reply to the emails I get in the daily digest so I have been cutting and pasting. Attitudes like the one Peter described below have always been a little hard for me. I try to give a lot of room for people's individual religion and try hard not to judge, (which I probably fail miserably at half the time) but leaving a women with three children because she is unclean? I would just think it would be more important to make sure you wife is taken care of and has help with the children, that seems like the right thing to do. I never liked the whole unclean thng. It is in Islam too and I always struggle with it. A woman is good enough to give birth to every man alive and menstration is part of the process of being a woman able to birth. Why not honor it? hmmmm SIobhan Hi Catherine> i used to work wit a rastafarian woman whosaid her religon ment that she was considered unclean during menstruation, and> thus her partner moved out of the house for that week, leaving her to cope wit three kids, alone.........So, following his logic through to it's conclusion.... it was OK to leave his kids with someone "unclean"?????BBPeter The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 14, 2003 OK, but for years, feminist groups were trying to get someone to pay attention to these human rights violations, but nobody gave a damn. Dubya even gave the Taliban $43 million in May 2001, supposedly to assist in their crackdown on poppy farmers. To hear him excoriate them makes me ill. Actually, to hear him excoriate any human rights violator ticks me off, as he supports one of the greatest examples of human rights violations in the world: the Saudi Arabian government. Danielle " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin ----Original Message Follows---- " Vegecentric " <vegecentric Re: regarding unclean women Wed, 14 May 2003 21:10:22 -0700 I agree. Obviously I'm not a fan of any organised religion, but the way Islam treats women frankly makes me sick. Whatever you think of the US going into Afghanistan, personally I'm not sorry those evil Taliban * & %$ were blown into Allah's open arms (and I hope they enjoyed their 70 virgins when they got there). Tom - Surya Burdick Monday, May 12, 2003 6:59 AM regarding unclean women Sorry, I Have not figured out how to reply to the emails I get in the daily digest so I have been cutting and pasting. Attitudes like the one Peter described below have always been a little hard for me. I try to give a lot of room for people's individual religion and try hard not to judge, (which I probably fail miserably at half the time) but leaving a women with three children because she is unclean? I would just think it would be more important to make sure you wife is taken care of and has help with the children, that seems like the right thing to do. I never liked the whole unclean thng. It is in Islam too and I always struggle with it. A woman is good enough to give birth to every man alive and menstration is part of the process of being a woman able to birth. Why not honor it? hmmmm SIobhan Hi Catherine > i used to work wit a rastafarian woman whosaid her religon ment that she was considered unclean during menstruation, and > thus her partner moved out of the house for that week, leaving her to cope wit three kids, alone......... So, following his logic through to it's conclusion.... it was OK to leave his kids with someone " unclean " ????? BB Peter The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 14, 2003 the whole thing about woman being subordinate to men is not really part of islam in the koran..read it...the only women suppose to be veiled(for wotever reason) were the prophet mohamed's wives... it was later patriarchial traditions which made it mandatory for women to be veiled in public...just like in certain christian traditions women are subservient..it has little to do with the tenets of each religion and a whole ton to do with mores and views postulated by later bigots.... the taliban were just like any other fundamentalist group, i'm sure falwell would do equally idiotic things if he was totally in control.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 14, 2003 Hi Tom > I agree. Obviously I'm not a fan of any organised religion, but the way Islam treats women frankly makes me sick. Whatever you > think of the US going into Afghanistan, personally I'm not sorry those evil Taliban * & %$ were blown into Allah's open arms (and I > hope they enjoyed their 70 virgins when they got there). So, because you dislike the way women were treated in Afghanistan, you are pleased that those same women were slaughtered in their thousands in order to let Dick Cheney dig an oil pipeline through the country. Good logic. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 14, 2003 Hi Danielle > OK, but for years, feminist groups were trying to get someone to pay > attention to these human rights violations, but nobody gave a damn. Dubya > even gave the Taliban $43 million in May 2001, supposedly to assist in their > crackdown on poppy farmers. To hear him excoriate them makes me ill. > Actually, to hear him excoriate any human rights violator ticks me off, as > he supports one of the greatest examples of human rights violations in the > world: the Saudi Arabian government. Don't forget that he is also responsible for Guantanemo. BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 14, 2003 Hi Tom > Yeah, fair enough, but whatever the reason, good or ill, any sicko who wraps > a woman in a burka and denies her freedom and education deserves what they > get. And which members of the Taliban got what they deserve? Last I heard was that around 5,000 civilians had been killed by the original bombing, tens of thousands since the bombing because we aren't now taking responsibility for the mess we've left the country in, and that the only people who have been accused of being Taliban have been held ***without trial*** in battery cages and subjected to ritual torture for the past two years. Not one of those has had a proven connection with the Talban or with any terrorist organisation - so, as I say, which members of the Taliban are you talking about? BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 14, 2003 Hi Fraggle > the whole thing about woman being subordinate to men is not really part of islam in the koran..read it...the only women suppose > to be veiled(for wotever reason) were the prophet mohamed's wives... Just to add a bit more to this... in his day, Mohammed was criticised for washing his own clothes - in the patriachal society this was considered women's work, but Mohammed spoke and acted against that. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 14, 2003 in afghanistan, women are still in burkas, still dying giving birth because their male relatives wont let them be examined by a male doctor, also being dragged off the streets for virginity tests........and the politics are still the same.......girls arent going to school.............the war didnt help women catherine >"Peter" > > >Re: regarding unclean women >Wed, 14 May 2003 18:24:48 +0100 > >Hi Tom > > > Yeah, fair enough, but whatever the reason, good or ill, any sicko who >wraps > > a woman in a burka and denies her freedom and education deserves what they > > get. > >And which members of the Taliban got what they deserve? Last I heard was >that around 5,000 civilians had been killed by the original bombing, tens of >thousands since the bombing because we aren't now taking responsibility for >the mess we've left the country in, and that the only people who have been >accused of being Taliban have been held ***without trial*** in battery cages >and subjected to ritual torture for the past two years. Not one of those has >had a proven connection with the Talban or with any terrorist organisation - >so, as I say, which members of the Taliban are you talking about? > >BB >Peter > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 > Message your friends in real time - and for free. Get MSN Messenger today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 14, 2003 Well said Danielle. Nobody worried about the women - there was more of an uproar when the Buddha statues were destroyed. Jo > OK, but for years, feminist groups were trying to get someone to pay > attention to these human rights violations, but nobody gave a damn. Dubya > even gave the Taliban $43 million in May 2001, supposedly to assist in their > crackdown on poppy farmers. To hear him excoriate them makes me ill. > Actually, to hear him excoriate any human rights violator ticks me off, as > he supports one of the greatest examples of human rights violations in the > world: the Saudi Arabian government. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 14, 2003 Very true Fraggle. When I was younger women had to cover their heads when going to church. All these rules are made by people. Jo - EBbrewpunx Wednesday, May 14, 2003 5:00 PM Re: regarding unclean women the whole thing about woman being subordinate to men is not really part of islam in the koran..read it...the only women suppose to be veiled(for wotever reason) were the prophet mohamed's wives...it was later patriarchial traditions which made it mandatory for women to be veiled in public...just like in certain christian traditions women are subservient..it has little to do with the tenets of each religion and a whole ton to do with mores and views postulated by later bigots....the taliban were just like any other fundamentalist group, i'm sure falwell would do equally idiotic things if he was totally in control.... To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 14, 2003 So that proves that the war on Afghanistan was for purposes other than helping the people then, doesn't it. Jo in afghanistan, women are still in burkas, still dying giving birth because their male relatives wont let them be examined by a male doctor, also being dragged off the streets for virginity tests........and the politics are still the same.......girls arent going to school.............the war didnt help women catherine >"Peter" > > >Re: regarding unclean women >Wed, 14 May 2003 18:24:48 +0100 > >Hi Tom > > > Yeah, fair enough, but whatever the reason, good or ill, any sicko who >wraps > > a woman in a burka and denies her freedom and education deserves what they > > get. > >And which members of the Taliban got what they deserve? Last I heard was >that around 5,000 civilians had been killed by the original bombing, tens of >thousands since the bombing because we aren't now taking responsibility for >the mess we've left the country in, and that the only people who have been >accused of being Taliban have been held ***without trial*** in battery cages >and subjected to ritual torture for the past two years. Not one of those has >had a proven connection with the Talban or with any terrorist organisation - >so, as I say, which members of the Taliban are you talking about? > >BB >Peter > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 > Message your friends in real time - and for free. Get MSN Messenger today! To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 people??............if these or some of these rules are made within very patriarchal systems, isnt it men that are making the decisions?? catherine >"Heartwork" > > >Re: regarding unclean women >Wed, 14 May 2003 22:40:24 +0100 > >Very true Fraggle. When I was younger women had to cover their heads when going to church. > >All these rules are made by people. > >Jo > - > EBbrewpunx > > Wednesday, May 14, 2003 5:00 PM > Re: regarding unclean women > > > the whole thing about woman being subordinate to men is not really part of islam in the koran..read it...the only women suppose to be veiled(for wotever reason) were the prophet mohamed's wives... > it was later patriarchial traditions which made it mandatory for women to be veiled in public...just like in certain christian traditions women are subservient..it has little to do with the tenets of each religion and a whole ton to do with mores and views postulated by later bigots.... > the taliban were just like any other fundamentalist group, i'm sure falwell would do equally idiotic things if he was totally in control.... > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 and it isnt only afghanistan, some women in the east end are completely covered up.....eyes as well.......... c >"Peter" > > >Re: regarding unclean women >Wed, 14 May 2003 23:10:33 +0100 > >So that proves that the war on Afghanistan was for purposes other than helping the people then, doesn't it. > >Jo > > > in afghanistan, women are still in burkas, still dying giving birth because their male relatives wont let them be examined by a male doctor, also being dragged off the streets for virginity tests........and the politics are still the same.......girls arent going to school.............the war didnt help women > > catherine > > > > >"Peter" > > > >> >Re: regarding unclean women > >Wed, 14 May 2003 18:24:48 +0100 > > > >Hi Tom > > > > > Yeah, fair enough, but whatever the reason, good or ill, any sicko who > >wraps > > > a woman in a burka and denies her freedom and education deserves what they > > > get. > > > >And which members of the Taliban got what they deserve? Last I heard was > >that around 5,000 civilians had been killed by the original bombing, tens of > >thousands since the bombing because we aren't now taking responsibility for > >the mess we've left the country in, and that the only people who have been > >accused of being Taliban have been held ***without trial*** in battery cages > >and subjected to ritual torture for the past two years. Not one of those has > >had a proven connection with the Talban or with any terrorist organisation - > >so, as I say, which members of the Taliban are you talking about? > > > >BB > >Peter > > > > > >--- > >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 > > > > > > Message your friends in real time - and for free. Get MSN Messenger today! > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 Well, the Saudis are pretty damn sick, too. A few months ago, 14 schoolgirls died in a fire. The religious police beat them back into the burning building 'cause they didn't have their abayas on, and they wouldn't let bystanders help because they were unrelated men. Men and women are strictly segregated, even in restaurants over there. A woman cannot sit with her husband in the local fast food dump, and I hear the men's sections are lavish, while the women's are bare bones. Danielle " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin ----Original Message Follows---- " Vegecentric " <vegecentric Re: regarding unclean women Wed, 14 May 2003 22:30:10 -0700 Yeah, fair enough, but whatever the reason, good or ill, any sicko who wraps a woman in a burka and denies her freedom and education deserves what they get. Tom - " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart Wednesday, May 14, 2003 4:57 AM Re: regarding unclean women > OK, but for years, feminist groups were trying to get someone to pay > attention to these human rights violations, but nobody gave a damn. Dubya > even gave the Taliban $43 million in May 2001, supposedly to assist in their > crackdown on poppy farmers. To hear him excoriate them makes me ill. > Actually, to hear him excoriate any human rights violator ticks me off, as > he supports one of the greatest examples of human rights violations in the > world: the Saudi Arabian government. > > Danielle > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > " Vegecentric " <vegecentric > > > Re: regarding unclean women > Wed, 14 May 2003 21:10:22 -0700 > > I agree. Obviously I'm not a fan of any organised religion, but the way > Islam treats women frankly makes me sick. Whatever you think of the US going > into Afghanistan, personally I'm not sorry those evil Taliban * & %$ were > blown into Allah's open arms (and I hope they enjoyed their 70 virgins when > they got there). > > Tom > - > Surya Burdick > > Monday, May 12, 2003 6:59 AM > regarding unclean women > > > Sorry, I Have not figured out how to reply to the emails I get in the > daily digest so I have been cutting and pasting. > > Attitudes like the one Peter described below have always been a little > hard for me. I try to give a lot of room for people's individual religion > and try hard not to judge, (which I probably fail miserably at half the > time) but leaving a women with three children because she is unclean? I > would just think it would be more important to make sure you wife is taken > care of and has help with the children, that seems like the right thing to > do. I never liked the whole unclean thng. It is in Islam too and I always > struggle with it. A woman is good enough to give birth to every man alive > and menstration is part of the process of being a woman able to birth. Why > not honor it? hmmmm > > SIobhan > > > > Hi Catherine > > > i used to work wit a rastafarian woman whosaid her religon ment that > she was considered unclean during menstruation, and > > thus her partner moved out of the house for that week, leaving her to > cope wit three kids, alone......... > > So, following his logic through to it's conclusion.... it was OK to > leave his kids with someone " unclean " ????? > > BB > Peter > > > > -------- ---- > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 I also heard a story that when there was a call to prayer, Mohammed cut off the sleeve of his prayer robe rather than disturb the cat napping there. " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin ----Original Message Follows---- " Peter " <Snowbow Re: regarding unclean women Wed, 14 May 2003 19:01:07 +0100 Hi Fraggle > the whole thing about woman being subordinate to men is not really part of islam in the koran..read it...the only women suppose > to be veiled(for wotever reason) were the prophet mohamed's wives... Just to add a bit more to this... in his day, Mohammed was criticised for washing his own clothes - in the patriachal society this was considered women's work, but Mohammed spoke and acted against that. BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 _______________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 Revenge. We blamed them for 9/11. Oh, by the way, where ARE the weapons of mass destruction Bush II was absolutely certain Hussein had, so much so, that he bombed the snot out of the country. Why, now they're admitting they may not have had them at all. Meaning this war was based on a big fat LIE! And anyone with a brain knows that there is no connection between Iraq and al Qaeda, OK?! Danielle " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin ----Original Message Follows---- " Peter " <Snowbow Re: regarding unclean women Wed, 14 May 2003 23:10:33 +0100 So that proves that the war on Afghanistan was for purposes other than helping the people then, doesn't it. Jo in afghanistan, women are still in burkas, still dying giving birth because their male relatives wont let them be examined by a male doctor, also being dragged off the streets for virginity tests........and the politics are still the same.......girls arent going to school.............the war didnt help women catherine > " Peter " > >To: >Re: regarding unclean women >Wed, 14 May 2003 18:24:48 +0100 > >Hi Tom > > > Yeah, fair enough, but whatever the reason, good or ill, any sicko who >wraps > > a woman in a burka and denies her freedom and education deserves what they > > get. > >And which members of the Taliban got what they deserve? Last I heard was >that around 5,000 civilians had been killed by the original bombing, tens of >thousands since the bombing because we aren't now taking responsibility for >the mess we've left the country in, and that the only people who have been >accused of being Taliban have been held ***without trial*** in battery cages >and subjected to ritual torture for the past two years. Not one of those has >had a proven connection with the Talban or with any terrorist organisation - >so, as I say, which members of the Taliban are you talking about? > >BB >Peter > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 > Message your friends in real time - and for free. Get MSN Messenger today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 I agree. Obviously I'm not a fan of any organised religion, but the way Islam treats women frankly makes me sick. Whatever you think of the US going into Afghanistan, personally I'm not sorry those evil Taliban * & %$ were blown into Allah's open arms (and I hope they enjoyed their 70 virgins when they got there). Tom - Surya Burdick Monday, May 12, 2003 6:59 AM regarding unclean women Sorry, I Have not figured out how to reply to the emails I get in the daily digest so I have been cutting and pasting. Attitudes like the one Peter described below have always been a little hard for me. I try to give a lot of room for people's individual religion and try hard not to judge, (which I probably fail miserably at half the time) but leaving a women with three children because she is unclean? I would just think it would be more important to make sure you wife is taken care of and has help with the children, that seems like the right thing to do. I never liked the whole unclean thng. It is in Islam too and I always struggle with it. A woman is good enough to give birth to every man alive and menstration is part of the process of being a woman able to birth. Why not honor it? hmmmm SIobhan Hi Catherine> i used to work wit a rastafarian woman whosaid her religon ment that she was considered unclean during menstruation, and> thus her partner moved out of the house for that week, leaving her to cope wit three kids, alone.........So, following his logic through to it's conclusion.... it was OK to leave his kids with someone "unclean"?????BBPeter The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 Yeah, fair enough, but whatever the reason, good or ill, any sicko who wraps a woman in a burka and denies her freedom and education deserves what they get. Tom - " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart Wednesday, May 14, 2003 4:57 AM Re: regarding unclean women > OK, but for years, feminist groups were trying to get someone to pay > attention to these human rights violations, but nobody gave a damn. Dubya > even gave the Taliban $43 million in May 2001, supposedly to assist in their > crackdown on poppy farmers. To hear him excoriate them makes me ill. > Actually, to hear him excoriate any human rights violator ticks me off, as > he supports one of the greatest examples of human rights violations in the > world: the Saudi Arabian government. > > Danielle > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > " Vegecentric " <vegecentric > > > Re: regarding unclean women > Wed, 14 May 2003 21:10:22 -0700 > > I agree. Obviously I'm not a fan of any organised religion, but the way > Islam treats women frankly makes me sick. Whatever you think of the US going > into Afghanistan, personally I'm not sorry those evil Taliban * & %$ were > blown into Allah's open arms (and I hope they enjoyed their 70 virgins when > they got there). > > Tom > - > Surya Burdick > > Monday, May 12, 2003 6:59 AM > regarding unclean women > > > Sorry, I Have not figured out how to reply to the emails I get in the > daily digest so I have been cutting and pasting. > > Attitudes like the one Peter described below have always been a little > hard for me. I try to give a lot of room for people's individual religion > and try hard not to judge, (which I probably fail miserably at half the > time) but leaving a women with three children because she is unclean? I > would just think it would be more important to make sure you wife is taken > care of and has help with the children, that seems like the right thing to > do. I never liked the whole unclean thng. It is in Islam too and I always > struggle with it. A woman is good enough to give birth to every man alive > and menstration is part of the process of being a woman able to birth. Why > not honor it? hmmmm > > SIobhan > > > > Hi Catherine > > > i used to work wit a rastafarian woman whosaid her religon ment that > she was considered unclean during menstruation, and > > thus her partner moved out of the house for that week, leaving her to > cope wit three kids, alone......... > > So, following his logic through to it's conclusion.... it was OK to > leave his kids with someone " unclean " ????? > > BB > Peter > > > > -------- ---- > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 I suppose so, but I don't want to get caught up in any sex wars. The men in my life are lovely. Jo - Catherine Harris Thursday, May 15, 2003 12:08 AM Re: regarding unclean women people??............if these or some of these rules are made within very patriarchal systems, isnt it men that are making the decisions?? catherine >"Heartwork" > > >Re: regarding unclean women >Wed, 14 May 2003 22:40:24 +0100 > >Very true Fraggle. When I was younger women had to cover their heads when going to church. > >All these rules are made by people. > >Jo > - > EBbrewpunx > > Wednesday, May 14, 2003 5:00 PM > Re: regarding unclean women > > > the whole thing about woman being subordinate to men is not really part of islam in the koran..read it...the only women suppose to be veiled(for wotever reason) were the prophet mohamed's wives... > it was later patriarchial traditions which made it mandatory for women to be veiled in public...just like in certain christian traditions women are subservient..it has little to do with the tenets of each religion and a whole ton to do with mores and views postulated by later bigots.... > the taliban were just like any other fundamentalist group, i'm sure falwell would do equally idiotic things if he was totally in control.... > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 Hi Catherine > and it isnt only afghanistan, some women in the east end are completely covered up.....eyes as well.......... Very true - I live not far from the largest Mosque in Britain, and there often see women walking around completely covered (cylon style). But this is to do with the culture in which Islam was bred for many centuries, not the religion itself. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 Hi Catherine > people??............if these or some of these rules are made within very patriarchal systems, isnt it men that are making the > decisions?? That is very true - but a rule is only any good if it is followed - if the women didn't accept it, it wouldn't last long as a rule. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 Hi Danielle > Well, the Saudis are pretty damn sick, too. A few months ago, 14 > schoolgirls died in a fire. The religious police beat them back into the > burning building 'cause they didn't have their abayas on, and they wouldn't > let bystanders help because they were unrelated men. Men and women are > strictly segregated, even in restaurants over there. A woman cannot sit > with her husband in the local fast food dump, and I hear the men's sections > are lavish, while the women's are bare bones. Saudi laws are also very intrusive - for instance, it's illegal to be naked even in your own home! (Never quite understood how people are supposed to bathe with that particular law, which is why it sticks in my mind!!) BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 15, 2003 hi peter, sometimes women dont have any choice but to follow rules, eg if women dont hold the economic power in a household unfortunately sometimes their views arent taken account of.....or like in saudi, they hold no political power, cant vote, so tey cant contribute to the rules/laws of society............. these are just two reasons for women being disempowered, and are why work for women is important to have accesss to, and why some women died for the vote.... catherine >"Peter" > > >Re: regarding unclean women >Thu, 15 May 2003 19:38:41 +0100 > >Hi Catherine > > > people??............if these or some of these rules are made within very patriarchal systems, isnt it men that are making the > > decisions?? > >That is very true - but a rule is only any good if it is followed - if the women didn't accept it, it wouldn't last long as a rule. > >BB >Peter > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. More info here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2003 In a message dated 5/16/03 9:23:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Snowbow writes: The only way that a person can be controlled by another is if they allow it to happen. ah..just like we are here in america today sometimes you can't help but be controlled its easy to be overwhelmed, its easy to feel alone, to go along with the status quo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 16, 2003 Hi Catherine > sometimes women dont have any choice but to follow rules, eg if women dont hold the economic power in a household > unfortunately sometimes their views arent taken account of.....or like in saudi, they hold no political power, cant vote, so tey > cant contribute to the rules/laws of society............. There's always a choice. At the risk of seeming to simplify the situation, you seem to be treating women as though they are helpless - even in the most patriachal societies, if enough women got together, they would have absolutely no need for economic support from men. If all women thought the way you portray, then women would never have gained the right to vote in the UK! The only way that a person can be controlled by another is if they allow it to happen. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release 13/05/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
