School discussion

[Guest guest]

It is also really questionable whether schools are

obligated to teach their students how to run a business.

>>>I agree, no time should be wasted on this

alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " " <

wrote:

 

> And those who do not succeed are hardly the fault of the

> schools. It is also really questionable whether schools are

> obligated to teach their students how to run a business. I find

> most people failing certainly has nothing to do with lack of

> academic education, though. the best students often fail and the

> C students thrive. so its not failure because they don't know

> TCM.

>

The school's obligation is to support my endeavor to become a licensed

practitioner. While I agree successful wielding of the medicine and

ability to diagnose and treat are ultimately my responsibility, the

school has an obligation to help me transition from student to

practitioner. They have an obligation to pave the road; whether I crash

and burn on that road or speed away toward success is then up to me. As

someone approaching graduation, I regret to discover the road is only

half-paved. The academic part is done. The school has supported my

learning. The part that has not been paved is the professional,

income-earning part - a supreme disappointment after having spent 50k to

get here. There is no job resource office on campus. There is no

career counselor on staff. There are minimal networking opportunities

and no internships that lead to real professional options. The school

should be a resource for its students and it should have at least one

person on staff dedicated to helping graduates get connected and develop

their professional careers in Chinese medicine. A head for business

should not be requisite for success as a physician, though opportunity

to practice surely is.

 

And what is this idea that good students are doomed to fail while C

students thrive? If this is truly the case, then I fault the schools:

if they more earnestly supported their top students in the transition

from classroom to commerce, those numbers might change and we'd have

more good doc's on the scene.

 

 

-Laurie Burton

[Guest guest]

Just to repeat the old maxim which I believe comes out of Medical Schools.

A students make good teachers

B students make good clinicians

C students make good money

 

(F students don't make it)

 

 

 

I gotta vent that in school my business classes were taught by someone who was

neither a teacher nor an acupuncturist nor particularily had any business

informatiion

to share. The teacher was there only because of political influence in the

field.

These classes should share all the other possibilities of the profession. For

example,

herb businesses, teaching and other non-practice trades. The trouble with the

fledging field is that everybody defines success solely on the private practice.

 

doug

 

> , " "

> wrote:

>

> > And those who do not succeed are hardly the fault of the

> > schools. It is also really questionable whether schools are

> > obligated to teach their students how to run a business. I find

> > most people failing certainly has nothing to do with lack of

> > academic education, though. the best students often fail and the

> > C students thrive. so its not failure because they don't know

> > TCM.

 

, Laurie <tgperez@e...> wrote:

 

> >>

> And what is this idea that good students are doomed to fail while C

> students thrive? If this is truly the case, then I fault the schools:

> if they more earnestly supported their top students in the transition

> from classroom to commerce, those numbers might change and we'd have

> more good doc's on the scene.

>

>

> -Laurie Burton

[Guest guest]

Well said

 

 

On Nov 6, 2003, at 12:08 PM, wrote:

 

> The trouble with the

> fledging field is that everybody defines success solely on the private

> practice.

[Guest guest]

Ken -

 

How can a school be damaged - in many ways. Accreditation self-studies

contain a lot of confidential information such as salaries, contracts

etc. Things that students really do not need to know and should not

know. How many of us had any idea what kind of salary our teachers made in

college? They contain minutes from Board meetings and faculty meetings. I

am not saying that students should not have access to some of this

information, and any school can give any of that information to students

that they desire, but should prospective students compare schools based on

how they pay faculty or staff or how the board makes each and every one of

its decisions. As Todd said in another post - soliciting input from

students on some issues is certainly appropriate but students do not create

curricula and they do not always know all of the issues surrounding

decisions. And they shouldn't have to - its not their job. And, if a

school is doing something really innovative, they may choose to share it,

but they may want to test it out, see if it works, use it as a marketing

tool and if a site visitor takes the idea and applies it to their school,

is that appropriate?

 

Julie never said that she burns her documents. She said that she destroys

them. Does she have to. No - there is no regulation that says she

does. And, in fact, it might be better if she didn't - on the off chance

that a school decides to challenge an accreditation decision, her notes

might be very important. But she does need to safeguard them.

 

Marnae

 

At 06:03 PM 11/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Julie,

>

>Understood. Thanks.

>

>Marnae's comments shed a little additional

>light on the topic, but I'm still left scratching

>my head about how a school can be damaged

>by revelation of information concerning

>such matters as are apparent to someone

>making a site visit.

>

>And the cultural commentary contained

>in your statement that you burn the documents

>struck me as symbolic of some sort of

>primal fear associated with the business

>of Chinese medical information.

>

>Marnae says that such precautions are par

>for the course in accreditation procedures.

>

>If someone does a site visit to Harvard Medical

>School, let's say, are they obliged either

>by rules or by standard practice to destroy

>their notes to ensure that they cannot fall

>into the wrong hands?

>

>Even the CIA leaves some records behind

>of what it develops in the way of intelligence,

>and one of the concerns for record keeping

>is that historians (or members of other

>disciplines) should be able to review processes

>such as this and their outcomes.

>

>I am not imparting motives to you, but normaly

>when we hear about destruction of documents

>images of nervous accountants at Arthur Anderson

>dealing with situations like their Enron account

>come to mind...or the like.

>

>It just struck me as odd that the process is

>shrouded in such secrecy and that you

>consider it so normal.

>

>Ken

>

>

>

>

>

>Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

>practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics

>specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of

>professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

---- Original Message -----

" Marnae Ergil " <marnae

 

Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:57 PM

Re: School discussion

>

> Julie never said that she burns her documents. She said that she destroys

> them. Does she have to. No - there is no regulation that says she

> does. And, in fact, it might be better if she didn't - on the off chance

> that a school decides to challenge an accreditation decision, her notes

> might be very important. But she does need to safeguard them.

 

Julie responds:

 

Actually, I asked my site team leader if I would ever be asked to provide

detailed back up (let's say, Student A was admitted without the proper

pre-requisites) and the answer was no...I would not have to provide names,

dates, specifics...it was enough that the team had uncovered that such a

circumstance occurred. Therefore, I felt safe in " destroying " my notes.

Actually, I just threw them away, much as you would an empty orange juice

carton.

>