Guest guest Report post Posted April 21, 2010 Brilliant idea. The BS in Health and the ACUPUNCTURE Masters should be 3 yrs condensed into 2 (which is what we used to have) and the OM PhD (which we really already have a triple in) ......would be 6 yrs condensed into 3 to 4 yrs full years. In a message dated 4/21/2010 7:38:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, magisterium_magnum writes: I think the logical move would be to make the current Masters degree into the Phd. Let people get a Masters if they want to just do acupuncture and learn TCM theory. Expand to Phd with herbology, Tui Na and QiGong. Most masters degrees are two years. Phds are two years beyond that. My school generally takes people 4 years, and it's based on trimesters. So that's basically 6 years condensed down to 4. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 21, 2010 Better than what is being " pushed " now which is already the equivalent of a Triple PhD. When in discussion with Florida legislators in 2002 the number of 4,000 hrs was discussed since California was suggesting it during that time frame. A key Florida Senator asked me if our profession was NUTS. He said at tops 3,200 hrs was all that was needed for the Doctor TITLE to be placed in Florida Statutes since we already were a form of primary care, diagnosing and treating illness and injury. Richard In a message dated 4/21/2010 8:02:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, magisterium_magnum writes: Sounds like a plan. And it's really to me, the obvious solution. A six year masters degree? Please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 22, 2010 Sounds like a plan. And it's really to me, the obvious solution. A six year masters degree? Please. - <acudoc11 <Chinese Medicine > Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:43 PM Re: Degrees > Brilliant idea. > The BS in Health and the ACUPUNCTURE Masters should be 3 yrs condensed > into 2 (which is what we used to have) and the OM PhD (which we really > already > have a triple in) ......would be 6 yrs condensed into 3 to 4 yrs full > years. > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2010 7:38:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > magisterium_magnum writes: > > I think the logical move would be to make the current Masters degree into > the Phd. Let people get a Masters if they want to just do acupuncture and > learn TCM theory. Expand to Phd with herbology, Tui Na and QiGong. > Most masters degrees are two years. Phds are two years beyond that. My > school generally takes people 4 years, and it's based on trimesters. So > that's basically 6 years condensed down to 4. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 22, 2010 My use of the letters PhD was primarily just to show that the current so-called Masters is actually the completion of college and post graduate credits equivalent of 3 PhDs. In a message dated 4/22/2010 11:09:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, acukath writes: i concur: prof doctorate, not phd. i personally like the letters OMD. being as the master's level OMD was phased out some years ago, and will be off the market in time due to attrition, perhaps it could be used as the degree title/letters for a true prof doctorate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 22, 2010 Has anyone thought about the need to create research ops, if you are going to suggest a PhD, like in China? Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine acudoc11 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:43:25 -0400 Re: Degrees Brilliant idea. The BS in Health and the ACUPUNCTURE Masters should be 3 yrs condensed into 2 (which is what we used to have) and the OM PhD (which we really already have a triple in) ......would be 6 yrs condensed into 3 to 4 yrs full years. In a message dated 4/21/2010 7:38:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, magisterium_magnum writes: I think the logical move would be to make the current Masters degree into the Phd. Let people get a Masters if they want to just do acupuncture and learn TCM theory. Expand to Phd with herbology, Tui Na and QiGong. Most masters degrees are two years. Phds are two years beyond that. My school generally takes people 4 years, and it's based on trimesters. So that's basically 6 years condensed down to 4. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 22, 2010 Why are we wanting a PhD? A PhD is a research oriented degree. MDs and Chiropractors have professional doctorates, not PhDs. I think we should stick to the professional doctorate or a hybrid doctorate, perhaps. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > Chinese Traditional Medicine > naturaldoc1 > Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:33:53 +0000 > RE: Re: Degrees > > > Has anyone thought about the need to create research ops, if you are going to suggest a PhD, like in China? > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > > > > Chinese Medicine > acudoc11 > Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:43:25 -0400 > Re: Degrees > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brilliant idea. > > The BS in Health and the ACUPUNCTURE Masters should be 3 yrs condensed > > into 2 (which is what we used to have) and the OM PhD (which we really already > > have a triple in) ......would be 6 yrs condensed into 3 to 4 yrs full > > years. > > > In a message dated 4/21/2010 7:38:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > magisterium_magnum writes: > > > > I think the logical move would be to make the current Masters degree into > > the Phd. Let people get a Masters if they want to just do acupuncture and > > learn TCM theory. Expand to Phd with herbology, Tui Na and QiGong. > > Most masters degrees are two years. Phds are two years beyond that. My > > school generally takes people 4 years, and it's based on trimesters. So > > that's basically 6 years condensed down to 4. > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 22, 2010 i concur: prof doctorate, not phd. i personally like the letters OMD. being as the master's level OMD was phased out some years ago, and will be off the market in time due to attrition, perhaps it could be used as the degree title/letters for a true prof doctorate. kath On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: > > > > Why are we wanting a PhD? A PhD is a research oriented degree. MDs and > Chiropractors have professional doctorates, not PhDs. I think we should > stick to the professional doctorate or a hybrid doctorate, perhaps. > > Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > To: Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > naturaldoc1 <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> > > Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:33:53 +0000 > > RE: Re: Degrees > > > > > > > Has anyone thought about the need to create research ops, if you are > going to suggest a PhD, like in China? > > > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > > > > > > > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > acudoc11 <acudoc11%40aol.com> > > Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:43:25 -0400 > > Re: Degrees > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brilliant idea. > > > > The BS in Health and the ACUPUNCTURE Masters should be 3 yrs condensed > > > > into 2 (which is what we used to have) and the OM PhD (which we really > already > > > > have a triple in) ......would be 6 yrs condensed into 3 to 4 yrs full > > > > years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2010 7:38:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > > > magisterium_magnum <magisterium_magnum%40comcast.net>writes: > > > > > > > > I think the logical move would be to make the current Masters degree into > > > > > the Phd. Let people get a Masters if they want to just do acupuncture and > > > > > learn TCM theory. Expand to Phd with herbology, Tui Na and QiGong. > > > > Most masters degrees are two years. Phds are two years beyond that. My > > > > school generally takes people 4 years, and it's based on trimesters. So > > > > that's basically 6 years condensed down to 4. > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 22, 2010 The clinical doctorate is more appropriate then a PhD, agreed. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Traditional Medicine don83407 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:03:01 -0500 RE: Re: Degrees Why are we wanting a PhD? A PhD is a research oriented degree. MDs and Chiropractors have professional doctorates, not PhDs. I think we should stick to the professional doctorate or a hybrid doctorate, perhaps. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > Chinese Traditional Medicine > naturaldoc1 > Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:33:53 +0000 > RE: Re: Degrees > > > Has anyone thought about the need to create research ops, if you are going to suggest a PhD, like in China? > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > > > > Chinese Medicine > acudoc11 > Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:43:25 -0400 > Re: Degrees > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brilliant idea. > > The BS in Health and the ACUPUNCTURE Masters should be 3 yrs condensed > > into 2 (which is what we used to have) and the OM PhD (which we really already > > have a triple in) ......would be 6 yrs condensed into 3 to 4 yrs full > > years. > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2010 7:38:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > magisterium_magnum writes: > > > > I think the logical move would be to make the current Masters degree into > > the Phd. Let people get a Masters if they want to just do acupuncture and > > learn TCM theory. Expand to Phd with herbology, Tui Na and QiGong. > > Most masters degrees are two years. Phds are two years beyond that. My > > school generally takes people 4 years, and it's based on trimesters. So > > that's basically 6 years condensed down to 4. > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 Call it whatever you want. A 6 year Master's Degree is baloney. Even if you look at it as a 4 year Masters Degree. The FACT of the matter is that it should be a doctorate, and everybody knows it. - " " " Chinese Medicine " <Chinese Medicine > Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:08 AM Re: Re: Degrees >i concur: prof doctorate, not phd. i personally like the letters OMD. > being as the master's level OMD was phased out some years ago, and will be > off the market in time due to attrition, perhaps it could be used as the > degree title/letters for a true prof doctorate. > > kath > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: > >> >> >> >> Why are we wanting a PhD? A PhD is a research oriented degree. MDs and >> Chiropractors have professional doctorates, not PhDs. I think we should >> stick to the professional doctorate or a hybrid doctorate, perhaps. >> >> Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. >> >> > To: >> > Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> >> > naturaldoc1 <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> >> > Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:33:53 +0000 >> > RE: Re: Degrees >> >> > >> > >> > Has anyone thought about the need to create research ops, if you are >> going to suggest a PhD, like in China? >> > >> > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc >> > >> > >> > >> > To: >> > Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> >> > acudoc11 <acudoc11%40aol.com> >> > Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:43:25 -0400 >> > Re: Degrees >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Brilliant idea. >> > >> > The BS in Health and the ACUPUNCTURE Masters should be 3 yrs condensed >> > >> > into 2 (which is what we used to have) and the OM PhD (which we really >> already >> > >> > have a triple in) ......would be 6 yrs condensed into 3 to 4 yrs full >> > >> > years. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 4/21/2010 7:38:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> > >> > magisterium_magnum >> > <magisterium_magnum%40comcast.net>writes: >> > >> > >> > >> > I think the logical move would be to make the current Masters degree >> > into >> >> > >> > the Phd. Let people get a Masters if they want to just do acupuncture >> > and >> >> > >> > learn TCM theory. Expand to Phd with herbology, Tui Na and QiGong. >> > >> > Most masters degrees are two years. Phds are two years beyond that. My >> > >> > school generally takes people 4 years, and it's based on trimesters. So >> > >> > that's basically 6 years condensed down to 4. >> > >> > >> > >> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 I really don¡¯t have anything to add, but I was just curious if schools still allow students to enter their masters program with only 2 years of undergraduate work (and no degree)? Is this common for other medical professions? -Jason > ---- > Mercurius Trismegistus <magisterium_magnum > Chinese Medicine > Re: Re: Degrees > 23 Apr '10 07:18 > > Call it whatever you want. A 6 year Master's Degree is baloney. Even if > you look at it as a 4 year Masters Degree. > The FACT of the matter is that it should be a doctorate, and everybody > knows > it. > > - > " " <[LINK: acukath%40gmail.com] > acukath > " Chinese Medicine " > <[LINK: Chinese Medicine%40] > Chinese Medicine > > Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:08 AM > Re: Re: Degrees > > >i concur: prof doctorate, not phd. i personally like the letters OMD. > > being as the master's level OMD was phased out some years ago, and will > be > > off the market in time due to attrition, perhaps it could be used as the > > degree title/letters for a true prof doctorate. > > > > kath > > > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Donald Snow <[LINK: > don83407%40msn.com] don83407 wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> > >> Why are we wanting a PhD? A PhD is a research oriented degree. MDs and > >> Chiropractors have professional doctorates, not PhDs. I think we should > >> stick to the professional doctorate or a hybrid doctorate, perhaps. > >> > >> Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > >> > >> > To: > >> > [LINK: Chinese Traditional Medicine%40] > Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > >> > [LINK: naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com] > naturaldoc1 <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> > >> > Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:33:53 +0000 > >> > RE: Re: Degrees > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > Has anyone thought about the need to create research ops, if you are > >> going to suggest a PhD, like in China? > >> > > >> > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > To: > >> > [LINK: Chinese Medicine%40] > Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > >> > [LINK: acudoc11%40aol.com] acudoc11 > <acudoc11%40aol.com> > >> > Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:43:25 -0400 > >> > Re: Degrees > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Brilliant idea. > >> > > >> > The BS in Health and the ACUPUNCTURE Masters should be 3 yrs > condensed > >> > > >> > into 2 (which is what we used to have) and the OM PhD (which we > really > >> already > >> > > >> > have a triple in) ......would be 6 yrs condensed into 3 to 4 yrs full > >> > > >> > years. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > In a message dated 4/21/2010 7:38:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > >> > > >> > [LINK: magisterium_magnum%40comcast.net] > magisterium_magnum > >> > <magisterium_magnum%40comcast.net>writes: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I think the logical move would be to make the current Masters degree > >> > into > >> > >> > > >> > the Phd. Let people get a Masters if they want to just do acupuncture > > >> > and > >> > >> > > >> > learn TCM theory. Expand to Phd with herbology, Tui Na and QiGong. > >> > > >> > Most masters degrees are two years. Phds are two years beyond that. > My > >> > > >> > school generally takes people 4 years, and it's based on trimesters. > So > >> > > >> > that's basically 6 years condensed down to 4. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 Jason, I totally agree with your inference that 2 years of undergrad, plus 3-4 years of post-grad doesn't exactly equate to a doctoral level degree, if that's what you were leading towards... Just a comparison with chiropractors: 2-4 years of undergrad (more bio-medical prerequisites than TCM school) 4 years of post-grad (4000+ hours) or MDs : 4 years of undergrad (not required, but expected) MCAT preparation and completion 4 years of post-grad (4000++ hours) 2-3 years minimum of residency If we're to progress with the FPD, the undergraduate hours requirement for entrance into a DAOM program needs to increase. 3 years, I believe, is the new proposed pre-requisite. And even more importantly, the level of education while in TCM school needs to be improved (this is what people have been saying since I've been in school). The areas where I've heard the most complaints are : lack of pulse practice all western bio-medicine classes need to be updated and/or become more practical more clinical practice in externship sites ie. hospitals (integrated settings) K 2010/4/23 > > > I really don’t have anything to add, but I was just curious if schools > still allow students to enter their masters program with only 2 years of > undergraduate work (and no degree)? Is this common for other medical > professions? > > -Jason > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 John: This undergraduate requirment should be 4 years. It never even crosses my mind that I would go to an MD that did not have an undergraduate degree. That is why I am not too excited about the FPD. Let's get the basics down first - 4 years of undergraduate degree should be required of all professional degrees. Then the grade entry requirement has to increase. These are basics that need to be addressed before adding more years of school - reseach or clinical. I could support this Doctorate but let's get clear on whether it is clinical training or research or both that is being added to all this time in school. Right now I see a lot of acupuncturists struggling to stay in practice - I don't think this degree is going to be the answer. If one wants to further their studies, I am all for that - just don't make it a standard of the field. Very few people will enter it. Many will need to go work for hospitals - maybe they will pay for all that education. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " " <johnkokko " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, April 23, 2010 8:50:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Re: Degrees Jason, I totally agree with your inference that 2 years of undergrad, plus 3-4 years of post-grad doesn't exactly equate to a doctoral level degree, if that's what you were leading towards... Just a comparison with chiropractors: 2-4 years of undergrad (more bio-medical prerequisites than TCM school) 4 years of post-grad (4000+ hours) or MDs : 4 years of undergrad (not required, but expected) MCAT preparation and completion 4 years of post-grad (4000++ hours) 2-3 years minimum of residency If we're to progress with the FPD, the undergraduate hours requirement for entrance into a DAOM program needs to increase. 3 years, I believe, is the new proposed pre-requisite. And even more importantly, the level of education while in TCM school needs to be improved (this is what people have been saying since I've been in school).  The areas where I've heard the most complaints are : lack of pulse practice all western bio-medicine classes need to be updated and/or become more practical more clinical practice in externship sites ie. hospitals (integrated settings) K 2010/4/23 > > > I really don�t have anything to add, but I was just curious if schools > still allow students to enter their masters program with only 2 years of > undergraduate work (and no degree)? Is this common for other medical > professions? > > -Jason > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 It must be noted that a four year degree is not a requirement for medical school. Two years is required, although most people in this country do have a four year degree before entry into medical school. Secondly, in most medical schools around the world they award medical degrees as BM/BS. This is a four year degree with no pre-med requirements. Some, like Panama, require 6 years of school. But no country requires 8 years. That being said, I, too, like the idea of all AOM students entering with a Bachelor's degree. I would also like to see the current curriculum tightened somewhat for rigor and substance. I do like the bio-med requirements and would like to see all graduates able to order and read basic lab reports, x-rays, and MRIs. I would like to see more practical and applied bio-med along with more in-depth teaching of the AOM Classics. However, this is only my opinion. I am sincerely, Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:08:55 +0000 Re: Re: Degrees John: This undergraduate requirment should be 4 years. It never even crosses my mind that I would go to an MD that did not have an undergraduate degree. That is why I am not too excited about the FPD. Let's get the basics down first - 4 years of undergraduate degree should be required of all professional degrees. Then the grade entry requirement has to increase. These are basics that need to be addressed before adding more years of school - reseach or clinical. I could support this Doctorate but let's get clear on whether it is clinical training or research or both that is being added to all this time in school. Right now I see a lot of acupuncturists struggling to stay in practice - I don't think this degree is going to be the answer. If one wants to further their studies, I am all for that - just don't make it a standard of the field. Very few people will enter it. Many will need to go work for hospitals - maybe they will pay for all that education. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " " <johnkokko " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, April 23, 2010 8:50:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Re: Degrees Jason, I totally agree with your inference that 2 years of undergrad, plus 3-4 years of post-grad doesn't exactly equate to a doctoral level degree, if that's what you were leading towards... Just a comparison with chiropractors: 2-4 years of undergrad (more bio-medical prerequisites than TCM school) 4 years of post-grad (4000+ hours) or MDs : 4 years of undergrad (not required, but expected) MCAT preparation and completion 4 years of post-grad (4000++ hours) 2-3 years minimum of residency If we're to progress with the FPD, the undergraduate hours requirement for entrance into a DAOM program needs to increase. 3 years, I believe, is the new proposed pre-requisite. And even more importantly, the level of education while in TCM school needs to be improved (this is what people have been saying since I've been in school). The areas where I've heard the most complaints are : lack of pulse practice all western bio-medicine classes need to be updated and/or become more practical more clinical practice in externship sites ie. hospitals (integrated settings) K 2010/4/23 > > > I really don�t have anything to add, but I was just curious if schools > still allow students to enter their masters program with only 2 years of > undergraduate work (and no degree)? Is this common for other medical > professions? > > -Jason > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 i have long felt the BA should be a pre rec. i, too, would not want to go to a doc who doesn't have a ba, it's a min edu rec. i feel the caliber of the classes would raise if the students there had a ba, it would raise the level of discussion an critical reasoning. (not meaning to offend any of those out there without ba's, this is what i feel would raise the standard of the prof going forward). kath On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: > > > > It must be noted that a four year degree is not a requirement for medical > school. Two years is required, although most people in this country do have > a four year degree before entry into medical school. Secondly, in most > medical schools around the world they award medical degrees as BM/BS. This > is a four year degree with no pre-med requirements. Some, like Panama, > require 6 years of school. But no country requires 8 years. > > > > That being said, I, too, like the idea of all AOM students entering with a > Bachelor's degree. I would also like to see the current curriculum tightened > somewhat for rigor and substance. I do like the bio-med requirements and > would like to see all graduates able to order and read basic lab reports, > x-rays, and MRIs. I would like to see more practical and applied bio-med > along with more in-depth teaching of the AOM Classics. > > However, this is only my opinion. > > I am sincerely, > Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality: http://acukath.blogspot.com/ Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for : www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Dragon-Liniment-Eco-Friendly-Wild-Crafted/dp/B001OC\ 1AZ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & s=hpc & qid=1254968032 & sr=8-1 and from the following supply companies: Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \ product=5554 & pg= Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 It must be noted that a four year degree is not a requirement for medical school. Two years is required, although most people in this country do have a four year degree before entry into medical school. Secondly, in most medical schools around the world they award medical degrees as BM/BS. This is a four year degree with no pre-med requirements. Some, like Panama, require 6 years of school Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:08:55 +0000 Re: Re: Degrees John: This undergraduate requirment should be 4 years. It never even crosses my mind that I would go to an MD that did not have an undergraduate degree. That is why I am not too excited about the FPD. Let's get the basics down first - 4 years of undergraduate degree should be required of all professional degrees. Then the grade entry requirement has to increase. These are basics that need to be addressed before adding more years of school - reseach or clinical. I could support this Doctorate but let's get clear on whether it is clinical training or research or both that is being added to all this time in school. Right now I see a lot of acupuncturists struggling to stay in practice - I don't think this degree is going to be the answer. If one wants to further their studies, I am all for that - just don't make it a standard of the field. Very few people will enter it. Many will need to go work for hospitals - maybe they will pay for all that education. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " " <johnkokko " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, April 23, 2010 8:50:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Re: Degrees Jason, I totally agree with your inference that 2 years of undergrad, plus 3-4 years of post-grad doesn't exactly equate to a doctoral level degree, if that's what you were leading towards... Just a comparison with chiropractors: 2-4 years of undergrad (more bio-medical prerequisites than TCM school) 4 years of post-grad (4000+ hours) or MDs : 4 years of undergrad (not required, but expected) MCAT preparation and completion 4 years of post-grad (4000++ hours) 2-3 years minimum of residency If we're to progress with the FPD, the undergraduate hours requirement for entrance into a DAOM program needs to increase. 3 years, I believe, is the new proposed pre-requisite. And even more importantly, the level of education while in TCM school needs to be improved (this is what people have been saying since I've been in school). The areas where I've heard the most complaints are : lack of pulse practice all western bio-medicine classes need to be updated and/or become more practical more clinical practice in externship sites ie. hospitals (integrated settings) K 2010/4/23 > > > I really don�t have anything to add, but I was just curious if schools > still allow students to enter their masters program with only 2 years of > undergraduate work (and no degree)? Is this common for other medical > professions? > > -Jason > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 Hi Kath; So you wouldn't want to ever consult with me, am I correct? Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ " " <Chinese Medicine > Fri, 23 April, 2010 10:19:19 Re: Re: Degrees i have long felt the BA should be a pre rec. i, too, would not want to go to a doc who doesn't have a ba, it's a min edu rec. i feel the caliber of the classes would raise if the students there had a ba, it would raise the level of discussion an critical reasoning. (not meaning to offend any of those out there without ba's, this is what i feel would raise the standard of the prof going forward). kath Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 hugo: i hope you are joking when you say this. if not, than i certainly did not convey my meaning well. kath On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > > Hi Kath; > > So you wouldn't want to ever consult with me, am I correct? > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > ________________________________ > " " <acukath <acukath%40gmail.com>> > > < > Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > > Fri, 23 April, 2010 10:19:19 > > Re: Re: Degrees > > > i have long felt the BA should be a pre rec. i, too, would not want to go > to a doc who doesn't have a ba, it's a min edu rec. i feel the caliber of > the classes would raise if the students there had a ba, it would raise the > level of discussion an critical reasoning. (not meaning to offend any of > those out there without ba's, this is what i feel would raise the standard > of the prof going forward). > > kath > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 Yes but how many students are able to get into the highly competitive medical programs with two years? If you cannot gain access, then it closely resembles a requirement, although not in writing. Good to know about what other countries are doing. Not likely to change in the US anytime soon. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Traditional Medicine don83407 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 09:51:26 -0500 RE: Re: Degrees It must be noted that a four year degree is not a requirement for medical school. Two years is required, although most people in this country do have a four year degree before entry into medical school. Secondly, in most medical schools around the world they award medical degrees as BM/BS. This is a four year degree with no pre-med requirements. Some, like Panama, require 6 years of school Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:08:55 +0000 Re: Re: Degrees John: This undergraduate requirment should be 4 years. It never even crosses my mind that I would go to an MD that did not have an undergraduate degree. That is why I am not too excited about the FPD. Let's get the basics down first - 4 years of undergraduate degree should be required of all professional degrees. Then the grade entry requirement has to increase. These are basics that need to be addressed before adding more years of school - reseach or clinical. I could support this Doctorate but let's get clear on whether it is clinical training or research or both that is being added to all this time in school. Right now I see a lot of acupuncturists struggling to stay in practice - I don't think this degree is going to be the answer. If one wants to further their studies, I am all for that - just don't make it a standard of the field. Very few people will enter it. Many will need to go work for hospitals - maybe they will pay for all that education. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " " <johnkokko " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, April 23, 2010 8:50:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Re: Degrees Jason, I totally agree with your inference that 2 years of undergrad, plus 3-4 years of post-grad doesn't exactly equate to a doctoral level degree, if that's what you were leading towards... Just a comparison with chiropractors: 2-4 years of undergrad (more bio-medical prerequisites than TCM school) 4 years of post-grad (4000+ hours) or MDs : 4 years of undergrad (not required, but expected) MCAT preparation and completion 4 years of post-grad (4000++ hours) 2-3 years minimum of residency If we're to progress with the FPD, the undergraduate hours requirement for entrance into a DAOM program needs to increase. 3 years, I believe, is the new proposed pre-requisite. And even more importantly, the level of education while in TCM school needs to be improved (this is what people have been saying since I've been in school). The areas where I've heard the most complaints are : lack of pulse practice all western bio-medicine classes need to be updated and/or become more practical more clinical practice in externship sites ie. hospitals (integrated settings) K 2010/4/23 > > > I really don�t have anything to add, but I was just curious if schools > still allow students to enter their masters program with only 2 years of > undergraduate work (and no degree)? Is this common for other medical > professions? > > -Jason > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 Agreed. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine acukath Fri, 23 Apr 2010 10:19:19 -0400 Re: Re: Degrees i have long felt the BA should be a pre rec. i, too, would not want to go to a doc who doesn't have a ba, it's a min edu rec. i feel the caliber of the classes would raise if the students there had a ba, it would raise the level of discussion an critical reasoning. (not meaning to offend any of those out there without ba's, this is what i feel would raise the standard of the prof going forward). kath On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: > > > > It must be noted that a four year degree is not a requirement for medical > school. Two years is required, although most people in this country do have > a four year degree before entry into medical school. Secondly, in most > medical schools around the world they award medical degrees as BM/BS. This > is a four year degree with no pre-med requirements. Some, like Panama, > require 6 years of school. But no country requires 8 years. > > > > That being said, I, too, like the idea of all AOM students entering with a > Bachelor's degree. I would also like to see the current curriculum tightened > somewhat for rigor and substance. I do like the bio-med requirements and > would like to see all graduates able to order and read basic lab reports, > x-rays, and MRIs. I would like to see more practical and applied bio-med > along with more in-depth teaching of the AOM Classics. > > However, this is only my opinion. > > I am sincerely, > Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality: http://acukath.blogspot.com/ Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for : www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Dragon-Liniment-Eco-Friendly-Wild-Crafted/dp/B001OC\ 1AZ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & s=hpc & qid=1254968032 & sr=8-1 and from the following supply companies: Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \ product=5554 & pg= Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 Don, Totally with you on this. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Traditional Medicine don83407 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 09:06:54 -0500 RE: Re: Degrees It must be noted that a four year degree is not a requirement for medical school. Two years is required, although most people in this country do have a four year degree before entry into medical school. Secondly, in most medical schools around the world they award medical degrees as BM/BS. This is a four year degree with no pre-med requirements. Some, like Panama, require 6 years of school. But no country requires 8 years. That being said, I, too, like the idea of all AOM students entering with a Bachelor's degree. I would also like to see the current curriculum tightened somewhat for rigor and substance. I do like the bio-med requirements and would like to see all graduates able to order and read basic lab reports, x-rays, and MRIs. I would like to see more practical and applied bio-med along with more in-depth teaching of the AOM Classics. However, this is only my opinion. I am sincerely, Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:08:55 +0000 Re: Re: Degrees John: This undergraduate requirment should be 4 years. It never even crosses my mind that I would go to an MD that did not have an undergraduate degree. That is why I am not too excited about the FPD. Let's get the basics down first - 4 years of undergraduate degree should be required of all professional degrees. Then the grade entry requirement has to increase. These are basics that need to be addressed before adding more years of school - reseach or clinical. I could support this Doctorate but let's get clear on whether it is clinical training or research or both that is being added to all this time in school. Right now I see a lot of acupuncturists struggling to stay in practice - I don't think this degree is going to be the answer. If one wants to further their studies, I am all for that - just don't make it a standard of the field. Very few people will enter it. Many will need to go work for hospitals - maybe they will pay for all that education. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " " <johnkokko " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, April 23, 2010 8:50:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Re: Degrees Jason, I totally agree with your inference that 2 years of undergrad, plus 3-4 years of post-grad doesn't exactly equate to a doctoral level degree, if that's what you were leading towards... Just a comparison with chiropractors: 2-4 years of undergrad (more bio-medical prerequisites than TCM school) 4 years of post-grad (4000+ hours) or MDs : 4 years of undergrad (not required, but expected) MCAT preparation and completion 4 years of post-grad (4000++ hours) 2-3 years minimum of residency If we're to progress with the FPD, the undergraduate hours requirement for entrance into a DAOM program needs to increase. 3 years, I believe, is the new proposed pre-requisite. And even more importantly, the level of education while in TCM school needs to be improved (this is what people have been saying since I've been in school). The areas where I've heard the most complaints are : lack of pulse practice all western bio-medicine classes need to be updated and/or become more practical more clinical practice in externship sites ie. hospitals (integrated settings) K 2010/4/23 > > > I really don�t have anything to add, but I was just curious if schools > still allow students to enter their masters program with only 2 years of > undergraduate work (and no degree)? Is this common for other medical > professions? > > -Jason > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 Anne, I hear from students in many programs and this simply is not accurate. The students mention that they want a doctorate and many will go after their DAOM. There is not likely to be any change to licensing but what is the argument against allowing the students to enroll in a FPD, instead of a post graduate DAOM later? Students want to have the higher levels of education, are willing to pay for it and want to get it done while they are in school. I see no reason to deny them this. Whether we have a BS or not, some would argue that we need more AOM education and not undergrad courses. If I had to choose, I would like to see us increase our hours in our schools, as it could better focus upon our graduates needs. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:08:55 +0000 Re: Re: Degrees John: This undergraduate requirment should be 4 years. It never even crosses my mind that I would go to an MD that did not have an undergraduate degree. That is why I am not too excited about the FPD. Let's get the basics down first - 4 years of undergraduate degree should be required of all professional degrees. Then the grade entry requirement has to increase. These are basics that need to be addressed before adding more years of school - reseach or clinical. I could support this Doctorate but let's get clear on whether it is clinical training or research or both that is being added to all this time in school. Right now I see a lot of acupuncturists struggling to stay in practice - I don't think this degree is going to be the answer. If one wants to further their studies, I am all for that - just don't make it a standard of the field. Very few people will enter it. Many will need to go work for hospitals - maybe they will pay for all that education. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " " <johnkokko " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, April 23, 2010 8:50:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Re: Degrees Jason, I totally agree with your inference that 2 years of undergrad, plus 3-4 years of post-grad doesn't exactly equate to a doctoral level degree, if that's what you were leading towards... Just a comparison with chiropractors: 2-4 years of undergrad (more bio-medical prerequisites than TCM school) 4 years of post-grad (4000+ hours) or MDs : 4 years of undergrad (not required, but expected) MCAT preparation and completion 4 years of post-grad (4000++ hours) 2-3 years minimum of residency If we're to progress with the FPD, the undergraduate hours requirement for entrance into a DAOM program needs to increase. 3 years, I believe, is the new proposed pre-requisite. And even more importantly, the level of education while in TCM school needs to be improved (this is what people have been saying since I've been in school). The areas where I've heard the most complaints are : lack of pulse practice all western bio-medicine classes need to be updated and/or become more practical more clinical practice in externship sites ie. hospitals (integrated settings) K 2010/4/23 > > > I really don�t have anything to add, but I was just curious if schools > still allow students to enter their masters program with only 2 years of > undergraduate work (and no degree)? Is this common for other medical > professions? > > -Jason > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 FYI, My recent chiropractic education required 3 years of undergrad, pre-med preferable for entry. Heavy in the sciences. I had a BS in zoology and still needed to take a couple more organic chem classes as my undergrad program was on the quarter system. I agree with your other points. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > Chinese Medicine > johnkokko > Fri, 23 Apr 2010 07:50:51 -0500 > Re: Re: Degrees > > Jason, > I totally agree with your inference that 2 years of undergrad, plus 3-4 > years of post-grad doesn't exactly equate to a doctoral level degree, if > that's what you were leading towards... > > Just a comparison with chiropractors: > 2-4 years of undergrad (more bio-medical prerequisites than TCM school) > 4 years of post-grad (4000+ hours) > > or MDs : > 4 years of undergrad (not required, but expected) > MCAT preparation and completion > 4 years of post-grad (4000++ hours) > 2-3 years minimum of residency > > If we're to progress with the FPD, > the undergraduate hours requirement for entrance into a DAOM program needs > to increase. > 3 years, I believe, is the new proposed pre-requisite. > > And even more importantly, the level of education while in TCM school needs > to be improved (this is what people have been saying since I've been in > school). The areas where I've heard the most complaints are : > > lack of pulse practice > all western bio-medicine classes need to be updated and/or become more > practical > more clinical practice in externship sites ie. hospitals (integrated > settings) > > K > > > 2010/4/23 > > > > > > > I really don’t have anything to add, but I was just curious if schools > > still allow students to enter their masters program with only 2 years of > > undergraduate work (and no degree)? Is this common for other medical > > professions? > > > > -Jason > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 So why not clean it up and repackage it as a FPD, which is what we all think it is? Let's be honest with ourselves. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine magisterium_magnum Fri, 23 Apr 2010 00:18:18 -0700 Re: Re: Degrees Call it whatever you want. A 6 year Master's Degree is baloney. Even if you look at it as a 4 year Masters Degree. The FACT of the matter is that it should be a doctorate, and everybody knows it. - " " " Chinese Medicine " <Chinese Medicine > Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:08 AM Re: Re: Degrees >i concur: prof doctorate, not phd. i personally like the letters OMD. > being as the master's level OMD was phased out some years ago, and will be > off the market in time due to attrition, perhaps it could be used as the > degree title/letters for a true prof doctorate. > > kath > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: > >> >> >> >> Why are we wanting a PhD? A PhD is a research oriented degree. MDs and >> Chiropractors have professional doctorates, not PhDs. I think we should >> stick to the professional doctorate or a hybrid doctorate, perhaps. >> >> Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. >> >> > To: >> > Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> >> > naturaldoc1 <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> >> > Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:33:53 +0000 >> > RE: Re: Degrees >> >> > >> > >> > Has anyone thought about the need to create research ops, if you are >> going to suggest a PhD, like in China? >> > >> > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc >> > >> > >> > >> > To: >> > Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> >> > acudoc11 <acudoc11%40aol.com> >> > Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:43:25 -0400 >> > Re: Degrees >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Brilliant idea. >> > >> > The BS in Health and the ACUPUNCTURE Masters should be 3 yrs condensed >> > >> > into 2 (which is what we used to have) and the OM PhD (which we really >> already >> > >> > have a triple in) ......would be 6 yrs condensed into 3 to 4 yrs full >> > >> > years. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 4/21/2010 7:38:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> > >> > magisterium_magnum >> > <magisterium_magnum%40comcast.net>writes: >> > >> > >> > >> > I think the logical move would be to make the current Masters degree >> > into >> >> > >> > the Phd. Let people get a Masters if they want to just do acupuncture >> > and >> >> > >> > learn TCM theory. Expand to Phd with herbology, Tui Na and QiGong. >> > >> > Most masters degrees are two years. Phds are two years beyond that. My >> > >> > school generally takes people 4 years, and it's based on trimesters. So >> > >> > that's basically 6 years condensed down to 4. >> > >> > >> > >> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 Honestly, I think you are confused about foreign medical education. In Almost all European countries you need to complete the International baccalaurea BEFORE entering any university, meaning, whatever Americans do in their freshmen and sophomore years, Europeans do as part of the baccalaurea, including organic chemistry and calculus. Then they do 2 years of anatomy, kinesiology, and physiology etc and pass an exam about those subjects, then they enter a 4 year medical school which graduates them as MDs. Another problem I have with this discussion is that is places a premium on quantity, meaning how many years of training, and not on quality, meaning, how demanding is it. I earned a doctorate at an ordinary, fully accredited university and thinking that acupuncture school is equivalent to a doctoral level training convinces me that you don't know what doctoral level training is like. It's not memorization, which seems to be what most acupuncture schools place a premium on, and the students I taught at acupuncture schools did not show much inclination to do much else. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - mike Bowser Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, April 23, 2010 11:38 AM RE: Re: Degrees Don, Totally with you on this. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Traditional Medicine don83407 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 09:06:54 -0500 RE: Re: Degrees It must be noted that a four year degree is not a requirement for medical school. Two years is required, although most people in this country do have a four year degree before entry into medical school. Secondly, in most medical schools around the world they award medical degrees as BM/BS. This is a four year degree with no pre-med requirements. Some, like Panama, require 6 years of school. But no country requires 8 years. That being said, I, too, like the idea of all AOM students entering with a Bachelor's degree. I would also like to see the current curriculum tightened somewhat for rigor and substance. I do like the bio-med requirements and would like to see all graduates able to order and read basic lab reports, x-rays, and MRIs. I would like to see more practical and applied bio-med along with more in-depth teaching of the AOM Classics. However, this is only my opinion. I am sincerely, Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:08:55 +0000 Re: Re: Degrees John: This undergraduate requirment should be 4 years. It never even crosses my mind that I would go to an MD that did not have an undergraduate degree. That is why I am not too excited about the FPD. Let's get the basics down first - 4 years of undergraduate degree should be required of all professional degrees. Then the grade entry requirement has to increase. These are basics that need to be addressed before adding more years of school - reseach or clinical. I could support this Doctorate but let's get clear on whether it is clinical training or research or both that is being added to all this time in school. Right now I see a lot of acupuncturists struggling to stay in practice - I don't think this degree is going to be the answer. If one wants to further their studies, I am all for that - just don't make it a standard of the field. Very few people will enter it. Many will need to go work for hospitals - maybe they will pay for all that education. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " " <johnkokko " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, April 23, 2010 8:50:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Re: Degrees Jason, I totally agree with your inference that 2 years of undergrad, plus 3-4 years of post-grad doesn't exactly equate to a doctoral level degree, if that's what you were leading towards... Just a comparison with chiropractors: 2-4 years of undergrad (more bio-medical prerequisites than TCM school) 4 years of post-grad (4000+ hours) or MDs : 4 years of undergrad (not required, but expected) MCAT preparation and completion 4 years of post-grad (4000++ hours) 2-3 years minimum of residency If we're to progress with the FPD, the undergraduate hours requirement for entrance into a DAOM program needs to increase. 3 years, I believe, is the new proposed pre-requisite. And even more importantly, the level of education while in TCM school needs to be improved (this is what people have been saying since I've been in school). The areas where I've heard the most complaints are : lack of pulse practice all western bio-medicine classes need to be updated and/or become more practical more clinical practice in externship sites ie. hospitals (integrated settings) K 2010/4/23 > > > I really don�t have anything to add, but I was just curious if schools > still allow students to enter their masters program with only 2 years of > undergraduate work (and no degree)? Is this common for other medical > professions? > > -Jason > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 I second the motion. That is exactly what needs to be done. Tighten and change the current curriculum without exceeding the 4000-4200 total hour range, and let it be the new OMD/DAOM/or whatever you want to call it FPD. This would be a nice, sweet, unencumbered package. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > Chinese Traditional Medicine > naturaldoc1 > Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:51:07 +0000 > RE: Re: Degrees > > > So why not clean it up and repackage it as a FPD, which is what we all think it is? Let's be honest with ourselves. > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > > > Chinese Medicine > magisterium_magnum > Fri, 23 Apr 2010 00:18:18 -0700 > Re: Re: Degrees > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Call it whatever you want. A 6 year Master's Degree is baloney. Even if > > you look at it as a 4 year Masters Degree. > > The FACT of the matter is that it should be a doctorate, and everybody knows > > it. > > > > - > > " " > > " Chinese Medicine " > > <Chinese Medicine > > > Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:08 AM > > Re: Re: Degrees > > > > >i concur: prof doctorate, not phd. i personally like the letters OMD. > > > being as the master's level OMD was phased out some years ago, and will be > > > off the market in time due to attrition, perhaps it could be used as the > > > degree title/letters for a true prof doctorate. > > > > > > kath > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Why are we wanting a PhD? A PhD is a research oriented degree. MDs and > > >> Chiropractors have professional doctorates, not PhDs. I think we should > > >> stick to the professional doctorate or a hybrid doctorate, perhaps. > > >> > > >> Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > >> > > >> > To: > > >> > Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > >> > naturaldoc1 <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> > > >> > Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:33:53 +0000 > > >> > RE: Re: Degrees > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Has anyone thought about the need to create research ops, if you are > > >> going to suggest a PhD, like in China? > > >> > > > >> > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > To: > > >> > Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > >> > acudoc11 <acudoc11%40aol.com> > > >> > Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:43:25 -0400 > > >> > Re: Degrees > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Brilliant idea. > > >> > > > >> > The BS in Health and the ACUPUNCTURE Masters should be 3 yrs condensed > > >> > > > >> > into 2 (which is what we used to have) and the OM PhD (which we really > > >> already > > >> > > > >> > have a triple in) ......would be 6 yrs condensed into 3 to 4 yrs full > > >> > > > >> > years. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > In a message dated 4/21/2010 7:38:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > >> > > > >> > magisterium_magnum > > >> > <magisterium_magnum%40comcast.net>writes: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I think the logical move would be to make the current Masters degree > > >> > into > > >> > > >> > > > >> > the Phd. Let people get a Masters if they want to just do acupuncture > > >> > and > > >> > > >> > > > >> > learn TCM theory. Expand to Phd with herbology, Tui Na and QiGong. > > >> > > > >> > Most masters degrees are two years. Phds are two years beyond that. My > > >> > > > >> > school generally takes people 4 years, and it's based on trimesters. So > > >> > > > >> > that's basically 6 years condensed down to 4. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
