First Professional Doctorate Gets Green Light!

March 16, 2010

Thanks K:

Its what I thought, compared to a Ph.D program:

Su Wen, 30-hours

Ling Shu, 30-hours

Nan Jing, 30-hours

SHL, 40 hours

Wen Bing, 30-hours

Jin Gui Yao Lue, 30-hours

Also what DAOM does not have:

Primary Channels 40-hours

Sinew Channels, 20-hours

Luo Channels, 20-hours

Divergent Channels, 30-hours

Eight Extraordinary Channels, 30-hours

> Here are the stats:

> according to the PCOM doctorate catalog

>

http://www.pacificcollege.edu/images/stories/admissions/pdfs/doctoralpart1_08_09\

..pdf

>

> Neijing 1.5 units

> Nanjing 1.5 units

> Shang han lun 1.5 units

> Jin gui yao lue 1.5 units

> Wen bing 1.5 units

>

> 1 unit = 15 class hours 1.5 units = 22.5 class hours (3 full days)

> Total of 7.5 units out of 61.5 units

>

> K

>

> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

>

> >

> > At this point in time I don't remember the number of hours. However, you

> > can contact PCOM for that info. I do remember covering the entire Nei Jing

> > and Nan Jing paragraph by paragraph.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Don J. Snow

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > singlewhip2001

> > Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:58:15 +0000

> > Re: First Professional Doctorate Gets Green Light!

> >

> > Hi Don:

> >

> > Can you share the number of hours studying the Nei Jing, how much did the

> > class actually read, study and apply in clinic? My experience is they only

> > skim the service, its impossible to cover su wen and ling shu in 20-hours.

> >

> > thanks.

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow

> > <don83407@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I don't know. In our Master's program we had, of course, Shang Hun Lun,

> > Wen Bing, Pi Wen, and Nei Jing. In the DAOM we delved quite a bit deeper and

> > also studied Nan Jing and other lesser classics. Also, PCOM is known as a

> > BIG herb school. The majority of our education in the Master's program was

> > herbology and the applications of herbal medicine was a big deal in the DAOM

> > program. Personally, I was and am thoroughly satisfied with the OM education

> > I have recieved. Could it have been better? Of course! No program is perfect

> > and I don't think you'll find a perfect one in China either. In fact, I

> > hired an acupuncturist last year who also went to China to study for a while

> > and she was sorely disappointed in the education she recieved there. She did

> > say they treated many more patients there than they do here. But it appeared

> > they only used standard TCM. They didn't use Master Tong's acupuncture,

> > Japanese, Korean, or anything other than standard TCM. She also said that

> > the acupuncture clinics were separate from the herbal facilities and that

> > the Dr.s who prescribed herbs did not do the acupuncture and the Dr.s who

> > did acupuncture didn't prescribe herbs. This is where our education is much

> > superior. We do it all. Acupuncture, herbal medicine, tui-na, diet, etc. We

> > appear to be much more well rounded and we are also exposed to myriads of

> > other styles of acupuncture.

> > >

> > > No thank you. I like the education here. The grass always appears greener

> > on the other side.

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

> > >

> > > Chinese Traditional Medicine

> > > naturaldoc1@

> > > Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:36:50 +0000

> > > RE: Re: First Professional Doctorate Gets Green Light!

> > >

> > > Don,

> > >

> > > You were ahead of the educational game. Two years of high school is

> > counted in the Chinese Bachelor programs making for six years. What I am

> > saying is that our programs in the US would not do well if we went to that

> > paradigm. They do well currently in many areas but clinic, classics and

> > herbs are lacking.

> > >

> > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

> > >

> > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine

> > > > don83407@

> > > > Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:40:05 -0500

> > > > RE: Re: First Professional Doctorate Gets Green Light!

> > > >

> > > > When future MD's take pre-med, their focus isn't on allopathic

> > medicine, is it? What's your point? The OM we learn here is very good. I

> > think our acupuncture is as good or better that that coming out of China

> > today. Our herbal medicine is far behind. We have some highly knowledgable

> > people here; Zev Rosenburg, Bob Damone, etc.

> > > >

> > > > Also, I am not the exception. I simply want all the knowledge I can

> > get. I want to be considered one of the best in my field. I do not settle

> > for average.

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

> > > >

> > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine

> > > > > naturaldoc1@

> > > > > Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:12:43 +0000

> > > > > RE: Re: First Professional Doctorate Gets Green Light!

> > > > >

> > > > > Don,

> > > > >

> > > > > You are the exception whereas in China it is the norm. The focus of

> > your study was not in OM was it? Our profession would cease to exist if we

> > relied upon high school to start teaching our OM curriculum.

> > > > >

> > > > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

> > > > >

> > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine

> > > > > don83407@

> > > > > Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:10:50 -0600

> > > > > RE: Re: First Professional Doctorate Gets Green Light!

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually, I started taking college classes in the 10th grade in

> > Alabama. It was a program for accelerated students. So yes, many do that in

> > this country also.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, L.Ac.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine

> > > > >

> > > > > > naturaldoc1@

> > > > >

> > > > > > Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:05:00 +0000

> > > > >

> > > > > > RE: Re: First Professional Doctorate Gets Green

> > Light!

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > A BS in China, I am told, is a six year program of study that

> > starts during the last two years of high school. Not likely to pull that one

> > off here.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Chinese Medicine

> > > > >

> > > > > > singlewhip2001@

> > > > >

> > > > > > Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:23:15 +0000

> > > > >

> > > > > > Re: First Professional Doctorate Gets Green Light!

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Don:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > This is an excellent point.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > The issue is our educational institutions demanding a higher degree

> > of performance and command of the material in our existing curriculum. If we

> > could do this and if what you say is true, that our hours are equivalent or

> > exceed the doctorate level in China/other countries, our focus is to be more

> > demanding, have a higher standard in our existing programs and lobby to make

> > our MTOM a Doctor degree.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Anybody interested in starting a grass roots movement for this lets

> > mobilize and see what we can do?

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow

> > <don83407@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Most overseas medical degrees do not require a B.S. in pre-med;

> > they simply get a BM/BS or equivalent in medicine and they say it is

> > " equivalent " to our M.D. In fact, with a four year BS in medicine they can

> > come here and challenge the medical boards and practice as an MD.

> > Personally, I do not think that is fair, but that is life. Therefore, those

> > of us with an MSTOM actually have more education than the general MD from

> > other countries. However, their education is more specialized than ours and

> > therefore, it is content, not time, that is supposedly of importance.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Therefore, we have the hours (perhaps) within our Master's

> > programs to actually equal the doctorate, but the question is; is our

> > content equal to that of the doctorate?

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Just a thought.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > CC: habeas_1@

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > naturaldoc1@

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:32:15 +0000

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > RE: Re: First Professional Doctorate Gets Green

> > Light!

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Richard,

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Not sure what " current program " you are talking about as we do

> > not yet have any FPD in operation. Are you asking about the FPD? Not sure

> > that your numbers are relevant as the OM profession tends to create its own

> > separate educational reality.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > BTW, there is no discussion of going this route (BS > MS >

> > PhD), that I recall. Even though this is the common route in China and

> > possibly in Korea.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > I see no real issue with adding in a few more classroom hours,

> > more clinical internship and adjusting the Master's to become a doctorate. I

> > agree that the master's is way too bloated as such. Would also like to see

> > more rigor in the courses and a higher educational requirement for entry.

> > That is just me, though.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > CC: habeas_1@

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > acudoc11@

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:03:14 -0500

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Re: Re: First Professional Doctorate Gets Green

> > Light!

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

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> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

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> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Michael

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Do tell what the current program is equivalent to in your

> > opinion?

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > By many who count......it is WAY passed even a PhD at least in

> > terms of

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > college credits or clock hours.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > 60 college credits to get into an acupuncture school and by

> > today's

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > so-called Masters program another 200 credits (3,000 hours

> > divided by the

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > standard 15 hrs per credit). That TOTALS 260 credits.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > BS = 120 to 128 credits

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > MS = 32

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > PhD = 32

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Totals approximately 192 credits

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > So we are apparently ALREADY completing 68 college credits

> > BEYOND a PhD.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hmmmmmmmm.....I know you will have something interesting to

> > contradict

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > these FACTS.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Oh...and by the way......WHERE is ACAOM's CONSENSUS on the FPD?

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > How are they pushing the FPD through without CONSENSUS?

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > They NEED to PROVE the CONSENSUS.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am sure Mr Dort Bigg (ED of ACAOM) can shed some light.....

> > if he is

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > still within lurking distance.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Richard

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

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> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > In a message dated 3/12/2010 9:53:50 A.M. Eastern Standard

> > Time,

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > naturaldoc1@ writes:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > Not sure where this misinfo is coming from. We are not talking

> > about a

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > PhD but more then likely a clinical doctorate. I am sure that

> > there will be

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > more western medicine in an expanded education, like a

> > doctorate (similar

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > to the DAOM programs I would hope). Your ability to utilize

> > western medical

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > theory is limited by your state laws. For example, the

> > chiropractors

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > rely upon orthopedic and neurological exams, which are also

> > part of western

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > medicine. It is how you use them that matters. So, the big

> > difference is

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > more knowledge and hopefully more rigor in the curriculum. We

> > tend to covet

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > the foreign trained practitioners for their expanded knowledge

> > base in both

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > WM and CM, so now it is up to us to become better.

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

March 16, 2010

Folks should have gotten most of these courses during their Master's program.

Most of these are basic courses and should have been studied in their Master's.

Don Snow

Chinese Medicine

singlewhip2001

Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:08:28 +0000

Re: First Professional Doctorate Gets Green Light!