Guest guest Report post Posted February 17, 2006 bei mu gua lou san , mai men dong tang several times. >>>>> Interesting it sounds like we end up doing very similar things this year. I have also used a lot of mai men dong yin zi tang. But i have seen quite a resistance to treatment. Much more than last few years. Oakland, CA 94609 - Cara Frank Friday, February 17, 2006 2:05 PM Re: Flu I almost always feel that inside a dry cough is a wet cough that wants to come up. My standard herbal response is bei mu gua lou san to moisten the lungs and clear phlegm heat. but with the flu this year, I found m self using mai men dong tang several times. Cara > I've also seen the followup cough, with loose phlegm in the chest. A > few scripts came up. . .zhi sou san in one case, a modification of > xiao chai hu tang in another, and huang lian wen dan tang in > another. Acupuncture on chest and back shu points helped a lot as well. > > > On Feb 17, 2006, at 12:59 PM, wrote: > >> > Zev >> > I have also been mostly using variations of jing fang bai du but a >> > fair >> > amount of patients just have this cough that would not give up. >> > Most of them >> > develop a dry cough and i do not think its because of jing fang >> > usage as i >> > have seen others that have not been treated and have the same cough. >> > >> > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 17, 2006 Try adding qian hu. It¹s a good flourish, esp. for such persistent coughs. C > bei mu gua lou san , mai men dong tang several > times. >>>>>> >>>>> > Interesting it sounds like we end up doing very similar things this year. I > have also used a lot of mai men dong yin zi tang. But i have seen quite a > resistance to treatment. Much more than last few years. > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > Cara Frank > > Friday, February 17, 2006 2:05 PM > Re: Flu > > > I almost always feel that inside a dry cough is a wet cough that wants to > come up. My standard herbal response is bei mu gua lou san to moisten the > lungs and clear phlegm heat. > > but with the flu this year, I found m self using mai men dong tang several > times. > > Cara > > > > >> > I've also seen the followup cough, with loose phlegm in the chest. A >> > few scripts came up. . .zhi sou san in one case, a modification of >> > xiao chai hu tang in another, and huang lian wen dan tang in >> > another. Acupuncture on chest and back shu points helped a lot as well. >> > >> > >> > On Feb 17, 2006, at 12:59 PM, wrote: >> > >>>> >> > Zev >>>> >> > I have also been mostly using variations of jing fang bai du but a >>>> >> > fair >>>> >> > amount of patients just have this cough that would not give up. >>>> >> > Most of them >>>> >> > develop a dry cough and i do not think its because of jing fang >>>> >> > usage as i >>>> >> > have seen others that have not been treated and have the same cough. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 17, 2006 Cause I want to try out copying and pasting from my new TCM Formula Finder program: Zhu Ye Shi Gao Tang Dan Zhu Ye Shi Gao Mai Men Dong Ren Shen Ban Xia Zhi Gan Cao Geng Mi _______________ , Danny Johnson <danny wrote: > > Patients of mine were getting recurrent flus that came back 2 or 3 > times about a month ago. I started adding more tonic herbs such as > Ren Shen, Dang Shen, or Da Zao to their formulas (Gan Mao Ling, etc.) > after most of the big heat symptoms went away. I usually wait longer > before tonifying, but this particular flu seemed to respond better to > some mild tonification. I've also had a bit of success with > lingering flu by using a formula similar to Xiao Chai Hu Tang + San > Cha Ku, Mao Dong Qing, and/or Gang Mei Geng ( I like those woody > antivirals ) > > For post-flu dry cough I've been doing Zhu Ye Shi Gao Tang + Bai Bu > and a little Sheng Di. > > -Danny > > > Have people been seeing what i come to call this stealth flu? It > > just don't go away. Nothing serious but lingers forever? If yes > > what have you been doing? > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 17, 2006 Interesting, i have not seen much heat s/s. Most start with wind-chill, although without much body ache. I have used jing fang bai du because of tongue signs and pulses. Many had a sore/dry itchy throats but all other s/s point mostly to wind-chill. Perhaps i should have tried a wenbing approach. Oakland, CA 94609 - Danny Johnson Friday, February 17, 2006 2:22 PM Re: Flu Patients of mine were getting recurrent flus that came back 2 or 3 times about a month ago. I started adding more tonic herbs such as Ren Shen, Dang Shen, or Da Zao to their formulas (Gan Mao Ling, etc.) after most of the big heat symptoms went away. I usually wait longer before tonifying, but this particular flu seemed to respond better to some mild tonification. I've also had a bit of success with lingering flu by using a formula similar to Xiao Chai Hu Tang + San Cha Ku, Mao Dong Qing, and/or Gang Mei Geng ( I like those woody antivirals ) For post-flu dry cough I've been doing Zhu Ye Shi Gao Tang + Bai Bu and a little Sheng Di. -Danny > Have people been seeing what i come to call this stealth flu? It > just don't go away. Nothing serious but lingers forever? If yes > what have you been doing? > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 17, 2006 I've seen a bunch of cases of this flu this winter; what's worked best mostly is xiao chai hu tang when the patient shows up a month or so later and is still coughing and exhausted. Some of the coughs I've seen are loose and productive, but a large number of dry and even hacking coughs. Golden Flower's Chuan Bei Ban Xia Gao has worked very well, and I've been getting good results with PGS's Loquat and Fritillary Jelly for the really hacking dry ones. ---deb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 17, 2006 I often use Stemona Tablets from ITM, mainly b/c it's been so successful in the past and just keeps on giving.( Use their Belamcanda 15 for heavy duty lung phlegm, either by itself or in combo with the former.) Many colds tail off with that cough that either diminishes or just hangs on ;-) -- is it a mirror of the malingering political disarray that's got us coughing indiscreetly? I wouldn't be surprised. Anyway, for the lung weakening that's taken over from the sorrowful condition of the empire, leading to dry cough that really feels dry, I like ITM's Lily 14. These all work amazingly quickly. I also recommend kumquats - they often help me break up that last hack. [stemona tablets = variant of Ermiao San: baibu, huangbai, cangzhu, kushen, mingdangshen, shenqu. Lily 14 - larger formula, the usual moistening agents plus coolers, debuggers, whatever. And pears. And plums. And peaches. And tangerines. Great excuse to eat 5 clementines.] ann Try adding qian hu. It¹s a good flourish, esp. for such persistent coughs. C > bei mu gua lou san , mai men dong tang several > times. >>>>>> >>>>> > Interesting it sounds like we end up doing very similar things this year. I > have also used a lot of mai men dong yin zi tang. But i have seen quite a > resistance to treatment. Much more than last few years. > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > > > I almost always feel that inside a dry cough is a wet cough that wants to > come up. My standard herbal response is bei mu gua lou san to moisten the > lungs and clear phlegm heat. > > but with the flu this year, I found m self using mai men dong tang several > times. > > Cara > > > > >> > I've also seen the followup cough, with loose phlegm in the chest. A >> > few scripts came up. . .zhi sou san in one case, a modification of >> > xiao chai hu tang in another, and huang lian wen dan tang in >> > another. Acupuncture on chest and back shu points helped a lot as well. >> > >> > >> > On Feb 17, 2006, at 12:59 PM, wrote: >> > >>>> >> > Zev >>>> >> > I have also been mostly using variations of jing fang bai du but a >>>> >> > fair >>>> >> > amount of patients just have this cough that would not give up. >>>> >> > Most of them >>>> >> > develop a dry cough and i do not think its because of jing fang >>>> >> > usage as i >>>> >> > have seen others that have not been treated and have the same cough. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >> > >>>> ---------- Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release 2/17/06 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 18, 2006 Its interesting that most use herbs that would suggest fluid damage by heat. The problem that i have had is that my patients have not had heat signs. I have tried formulas such as mai men dong yin zi tang out of desperation kind of allopathic treatment for dry cough. But the pathomechanism was not really there and several have not responded very well. I had a few patients with throat itching leading to dry cough for which i have tried variations of zhi sou san but again did not help. Jason do you have any comments? what have you and Chip been seeing? Oakland, CA 94609 - snakeoil.works Friday, February 17, 2006 11:13 PM Fw: Flu I often use Stemona Tablets from ITM, mainly b/c it's been so successful in the past and just keeps on giving.( Use their Belamcanda 15 for heavy duty lung phlegm, either by itself or in combo with the former.) Many colds tail off with that cough that either diminishes or just hangs on ;-) -- is it a mirror of the malingering political disarray that's got us coughing indiscreetly? I wouldn't be surprised. Anyway, for the lung weakening that's taken over from the sorrowful condition of the empire, leading to dry cough that really feels dry, I like ITM's Lily 14. These all work amazingly quickly. I also recommend kumquats - they often help me break up that last hack. [stemona tablets = variant of Ermiao San: baibu, huangbai, cangzhu, kushen, mingdangshen, shenqu. Lily 14 - larger formula, the usual moistening agents plus coolers, debuggers, whatever. And pears. And plums. And peaches. And tangerines. Great excuse to eat 5 clementines.] ann Try adding qian hu. It¹s a good flourish, esp. for such persistent coughs. C > bei mu gua lou san , mai men dong tang several > times. >>>>>> >>>>> > Interesting it sounds like we end up doing very similar things this year. I > have also used a lot of mai men dong yin zi tang. But i have seen quite a > resistance to treatment. Much more than last few years. > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > > > I almost always feel that inside a dry cough is a wet cough that wants to > come up. My standard herbal response is bei mu gua lou san to moisten the > lungs and clear phlegm heat. > > but with the flu this year, I found m self using mai men dong tang several > times. > > Cara > > > > >> > I've also seen the followup cough, with loose phlegm in the chest. A >> > few scripts came up. . .zhi sou san in one case, a modification of >> > xiao chai hu tang in another, and huang lian wen dan tang in >> > another. Acupuncture on chest and back shu points helped a lot as well. >> > >> > >> > On Feb 17, 2006, at 12:59 PM, wrote: >> > >>>> >> > Zev >>>> >> > I have also been mostly using variations of jing fang bai du but a >>>> >> > fair >>>> >> > amount of patients just have this cough that would not give up. >>>> >> > Most of them >>>> >> > develop a dry cough and i do not think its because of jing fang >>>> >> > usage as i >>>> >> > have seen others that have not been treated and have the same cough. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >> > >>>> ---------- Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release 2/17/06 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 18, 2006 I also have seen little in the way of heat sx. I saw nothing that would indicate a wen bing approach in this epidemic. This flu started with extreme coldness and chill, some transitory sore throat, but little in the way of fever. On Feb 17, 2006, at 9:01 PM, wrote: > Interesting, i have not seen much heat s/s. Most start with wind- > chill, although without much body ache. I have used jing fang bai > du because of tongue signs and pulses. Many had a sore/dry itchy > throats but all other s/s point mostly to wind-chill. Perhaps i > should have tried a wenbing approach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 19, 2006 Doug what is the TCM Formula Finder program Oakland, CA 94609 - Friday, February 17, 2006 5:35 PM Re: Flu Cause I want to try out copying and pasting from my new TCM Formula Finder program: Zhu Ye Shi Gao Tang Dan Zhu Ye Shi Gao Mai Men Dong Ren Shen Ban Xia Zhi Gan Cao Geng Mi _______________ , Danny Johnson <danny wrote: > > Patients of mine were getting recurrent flus that came back 2 or 3 > times about a month ago. I started adding more tonic herbs such as > Ren Shen, Dang Shen, or Da Zao to their formulas (Gan Mao Ling, etc.) > after most of the big heat symptoms went away. I usually wait longer > before tonifying, but this particular flu seemed to respond better to > some mild tonification. I've also had a bit of success with > lingering flu by using a formula similar to Xiao Chai Hu Tang + San > Cha Ku, Mao Dong Qing, and/or Gang Mei Geng ( I like those woody > antivirals ) > > For post-flu dry cough I've been doing Zhu Ye Shi Gao Tang + Bai Bu > and a little Sheng Di. > > -Danny > > > Have people been seeing what i come to call this stealth flu? It > > just don't go away. Nothing serious but lingers forever? If yes > > what have you been doing? > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 19, 2006 It's a simple formula " book " for the computer. http://santacruzacupuncture.com/students.html fifty bucks. Al Stone turned me on to it. It's OK and functional. doug , " " <alonmarcus wrote: > > Doug > what is the TCM Formula Finder program > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 19, 2006 This TCM Formula Finder is kind of the program that I'd envisioned having someday. Basically, it is just a searchable database of a bunch of formulas with all the usual notes and other information you'd want. What I like about it is the ability to search by a symptom. I also create new records for patients, so I can track their formulas in my computer or easily return to one to apply to another patient, as this sometimes happens. I also imported all of the herb records from my old version of Acubase into this program. To do this, you'll need to have a basic understanding of export and import in Filemaker. The TCM Formula Finder (at my urging) is also adding a HCFA form generator. I find that the Acubase version of this is too much work, slow, bulky and attached to a program that tries to do everything. This TCM Formula Finder is far more lean and focused on what I really need. The newer beta version also has a better interface for patient information. Right now there's this " Clinic Buddy " which as far as I can tell, isn't much more than a space for text notes. The newer version's patient progress functions are closer to what I'm already doing in creating records to maintain patient formula information. I like this program very much and encourage others to check it out. For more, please see: http://www.tcmformulafinder.com/ I have no commercial interest in this product. On 2/19/06, <alonmarcus wrote: > > Doug > what is the TCM Formula Finder program > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > > > Friday, February 17, 2006 5:35 PM > Re: Flu > > > Cause I want to try out copying and pasting from my new TCM Formula > Finder program: > > Zhu Ye Shi Gao Tang > > Dan Zhu Ye > Shi Gao > Mai Men Dong > Ren Shen > Ban Xia > Zhi Gan Cao > Geng Mi > > _______________ > , Danny Johnson <danny > wrote: > > > > Patients of mine were getting recurrent flus that came back 2 or 3 > > times about a month ago. I started adding more tonic herbs such as > > Ren Shen, Dang Shen, or Da Zao to their formulas (Gan Mao Ling, etc.) > > > after most of the big heat symptoms went away. I usually wait longer > > > before tonifying, but this particular flu seemed to respond better to > > > some mild tonification. I've also had a bit of success with > > lingering flu by using a formula similar to Xiao Chai Hu Tang + San > > Cha Ku, Mao Dong Qing, and/or Gang Mei Geng ( I like those woody > > antivirals ) > > > > For post-flu dry cough I've been doing Zhu Ye Shi Gao Tang + Bai Bu > > and a little Sheng Di. > > > > -Danny > > > > > Have people been seeing what i come to call this stealth flu? It > > > just don't go away. Nothing serious but lingers forever? If yes > > > what have you been doing? > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including > board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free > discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 19, 2006 Where I'm located, I've been seeing mostly heat type flu s/s. Out of nowhere, patients are getting 102-103 degree fevers with incredible fatigue, then a 2-3 week dry cough. The one's who try to push it and go back to work/school after 2 days relapse with the fever again. Hence all the warm disease herbs I've been using. Thanks for the TCM Formula Finder props, Al! -Danny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 19, 2006 thanks Oakland, CA 94609 - Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:41 AM Re: Flu It's a simple formula " book " for the computer. http://santacruzacupuncture.com/students.html fifty bucks. Al Stone turned me on to it. It's OK and functional. doug , " " <alonmarcus wrote: > > Doug > what is the TCM Formula Finder program > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 20, 2006 Alon, I think that one of the key issues in such coughs is where is the cough coming from, meaning location. For example, it has been common this season to see this dry cough, but when questioned, the source is many times the sinus via PND. (I.e. tickle or throat cough)- I many times will treat this via the lungs, spleen or whatever pathomechanism is appropriate. I have cured many such dry coughs by actually transforming phlegm and strengthening the spleen. I guess it is just a matter of DX - sometimes it is fluid depletion, sometimes fluid obstruction etc etc... But as far as the big picture, I have not seen any 1 Rx that is predominant this season, I have used many ideas with patients.... -Jason > > > On Behalf Of > Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:11 AM > > Re: Flu > > Its interesting that most use herbs that would suggest fluid damage by > heat.. The problem that i have had is that my patients have not had heat > signs. I have tried formulas such as mai men dong yin zi tang out of > desperation kind of allopathic treatment for dry cough. But the > pathomechanism was not really there and several have not responded very > well. > I had a few patients with throat itching leading to dry cough for which i > have tried variations of zhi sou san but again did not help. > Jason do you have any comments? what have you and Chip been seeing? > > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > snakeoil.works > > Friday, February 17, 2006 11:13 PM > Fw: Flu > > > > I often use Stemona Tablets from ITM, mainly b/c it's been so successful > in the past and just keeps on giving.( Use their Belamcanda 15 for heavy > duty lung phlegm, either by itself or in combo with the former.) Many > colds tail off with that cough that either diminishes or just hangs on ;-) > -- is it a mirror of the malingering political disarray that's got us > coughing indiscreetly? I wouldn't be surprised. > > Anyway, for the lung weakening that's taken over from the sorrowful > condition of the empire, leading to dry cough that really feels dry, I > like ITM's Lily 14. These all work amazingly quickly. I also recommend > kumquats - they often help me break up that last hack. > > [stemona tablets = variant of Ermiao San: baibu, huangbai, cangzhu, > kushen, mingdangshen, shenqu. > Lily 14 - larger formula, the usual moistening agents plus coolers, > debuggers, whatever. > And pears. And plums. And peaches. And tangerines. Great excuse to eat 5 > clementines.] > > ann > > Try adding qian hu. It¹s a good flourish, esp. for such persistent > coughs. > C > > > > > > bei mu gua lou san , mai men dong tang several > > times. > >>>>>> >>>>> > > Interesting it sounds like we end up doing very similar things this > year. I > > have also used a lot of mai men dong yin zi tang. But i have seen > quite a > > resistance to treatment. Much more than last few years. > > > > > > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > > > > - > > > > > I almost always feel that inside a dry cough is a wet cough that > wants to > > come up. My standard herbal response is bei mu gua lou san to > moisten the > > lungs and clear phlegm heat. > > > > but with the flu this year, I found m self using mai men dong > tang several > > times. > > > > Cara > > > > > > > > > >> > I've also seen the followup cough, with loose phlegm in the > chest. A > >> > few scripts came up. . .zhi sou san in one case, a > modification of > >> > xiao chai hu tang in another, and huang lian wen dan tang in > >> > another. Acupuncture on chest and back shu points helped a lot > as well. > >> > > >> > > >> > On Feb 17, 2006, at 12:59 PM, wrote: > >> > > >>>> >> > Zev > >>>> >> > I have also been mostly using variations of jing fang bai > du but a > >>>> >> > fair > >>>> >> > amount of patients just have this cough that would not > give up. > >>>> >> > Most of them > >>>> >> > develop a dry cough and i do not think its because of jing > fang > >>>> >> > usage as i > >>>> >> > have seen others that have not been treated and have the > same cough. > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >> > > >>>> > ---------- > > > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release 2/17/06 > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 20, 2006 Jason thanks, have you seen patients with dry coughs that have responded poorly? I agree most have had PND and helping that has helped the reflex cough. But i have about 4 patients that i just cant get rid of the cough, unfortunately me being one of them Oakland, CA 94609 - Monday, February 20, 2006 5:33 PM RE: Flu Alon, I think that one of the key issues in such coughs is where is the cough coming from, meaning location. For example, it has been common this season to see this dry cough, but when questioned, the source is many times the sinus via PND. (I.e. tickle or throat cough)- I many times will treat this via the lungs, spleen or whatever pathomechanism is appropriate. I have cured many such dry coughs by actually transforming phlegm and strengthening the spleen. I guess it is just a matter of DX - sometimes it is fluid depletion, sometimes fluid obstruction etc etc... But as far as the big picture, I have not seen any 1 Rx that is predominant this season, I have used many ideas with patients.... -Jason > > > On Behalf Of > Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:11 AM > > Re: Flu > > Its interesting that most use herbs that would suggest fluid damage by > heat.. The problem that i have had is that my patients have not had heat > signs. I have tried formulas such as mai men dong yin zi tang out of > desperation kind of allopathic treatment for dry cough. But the > pathomechanism was not really there and several have not responded very > well. > I had a few patients with throat itching leading to dry cough for which i > have tried variations of zhi sou san but again did not help. > Jason do you have any comments? what have you and Chip been seeing? > > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > snakeoil.works > > Friday, February 17, 2006 11:13 PM > Fw: Flu > > > > I often use Stemona Tablets from ITM, mainly b/c it's been so successful > in the past and just keeps on giving.( Use their Belamcanda 15 for heavy > duty lung phlegm, either by itself or in combo with the former.) Many > colds tail off with that cough that either diminishes or just hangs on ;-) > -- is it a mirror of the malingering political disarray that's got us > coughing indiscreetly? I wouldn't be surprised. > > Anyway, for the lung weakening that's taken over from the sorrowful > condition of the empire, leading to dry cough that really feels dry, I > like ITM's Lily 14. These all work amazingly quickly. I also recommend > kumquats - they often help me break up that last hack. > > [stemona tablets = variant of Ermiao San: baibu, huangbai, cangzhu, > kushen, mingdangshen, shenqu. > Lily 14 - larger formula, the usual moistening agents plus coolers, > debuggers, whatever. > And pears. And plums. And peaches. And tangerines. Great excuse to eat 5 > clementines.] > > ann > > Try adding qian hu. It¹s a good flourish, esp. for such persistent > coughs. > C > > > > > > bei mu gua lou san , mai men dong tang several > > times. > >>>>>> >>>>> > > Interesting it sounds like we end up doing very similar things this > year. I > > have also used a lot of mai men dong yin zi tang. But i have seen > quite a > > resistance to treatment. Much more than last few years. > > > > > > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > > > > - > > > > > I almost always feel that inside a dry cough is a wet cough that > wants to > > come up. My standard herbal response is bei mu gua lou san to > moisten the > > lungs and clear phlegm heat. > > > > but with the flu this year, I found m self using mai men dong > tang several > > times. > > > > Cara > > > > > > > > > >> > I've also seen the followup cough, with loose phlegm in the > chest. A > >> > few scripts came up. . .zhi sou san in one case, a > modification of > >> > xiao chai hu tang in another, and huang lian wen dan tang in > >> > another. Acupuncture on chest and back shu points helped a lot > as well. > >> > > >> > > >> > On Feb 17, 2006, at 12:59 PM, wrote: > >> > > >>>> >> > Zev > >>>> >> > I have also been mostly using variations of jing fang bai > du but a > >>>> >> > fair > >>>> >> > amount of patients just have this cough that would not > give up. > >>>> >> > Most of them > >>>> >> > develop a dry cough and i do not think its because of jing > fang > >>>> >> > usage as i > >>>> >> > have seen others that have not been treated and have the > same cough. > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >> > > >>>> > ---------- > > > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release 2/17/06 > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 20, 2006 It has always been my feeling that for a computer program of herbs, prescriptions or acupuncture points to have redeeming value, it should add something new. New content, innovative use of existing information, or exacting scholarship. Like nearly every other computer database of Chinese medicine in English, this one doesn't meet these criteria. Understandably, a single practitioner will be hard-pressed to make an innovative database without funding, collaboration, etc. If anyone wants to see the potential for CM database tools, just look at homeopathic programs such as Macrepertory. It goes beyond the books, synthesizing information from multiple sources and is truly indispensable to the practice of homeopathy today. Our profession (at least in English language) is way behind the eight ball here. On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Al Stone wrote: > This TCM Formula Finder is kind of the program that I'd envisioned > having > someday. Basically, it is just a searchable database of a bunch of > formulas > with all the usual notes and other information you'd want. What I > like about > it is the ability to search by a symptom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 20, 2006 I completely agree with Jason about the PND. In Philadelphia, sinusitis and PND are the #1 complaint that I treat. Many, nearly all dry coughs, if they are not deep in the lungs, but higher up, are caused by PND. but to elaborate on Jason's tx strategy: you need to add fragrant herbs to penetrate the deeper sinus obstruction effectively. We carry a formula ( called PND) that I developed out of obsessive musings on this topic. So be sure to include huo xiang, shi chang pu into whatever formula base you are using. Further- always benefit fluids. Always think about moistening. Only using warm dry herbs will ultimately exacerbate the problem. Cara > Jason > thanks, have you seen patients with dry coughs that have responded poorly? I > agree most have had PND and helping that has helped the reflex cough. But i > have about 4 patients that i just cant get rid of the cough, unfortunately me > being one of them > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > > > Monday, February 20, 2006 5:33 PM > RE: Flu > > > Alon, > > I think that one of the key issues in such coughs is where is the cough > coming from, meaning location. For example, it has been common this season > to see this dry cough, but when questioned, the source is many times the > sinus via PND. (I.e. tickle or throat cough)- I many times will treat this > via the lungs, spleen or whatever pathomechanism is appropriate. I have > cured many such dry coughs by actually transforming phlegm and strengthening > the spleen. I guess it is just a matter of DX - sometimes it is fluid > depletion, sometimes fluid obstruction etc etc... But as far as the big > picture, I have not seen any 1 Rx that is predominant this season, I have > used many ideas with patients.... > > -Jason > > > >> > >> > >> > On Behalf Of >> > Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:11 AM >> > >> > Re: Flu >> > >> > Its interesting that most use herbs that would suggest fluid damage by >> > heat.. The problem that i have had is that my patients have not had heat >> > signs. I have tried formulas such as mai men dong yin zi tang out of >> > desperation kind of allopathic treatment for dry cough. But the >> > pathomechanism was not really there and several have not responded very >> > well. >> > I had a few patients with throat itching leading to dry cough for which i >> > have tried variations of zhi sou san but again did not help. >> > Jason do you have any comments? what have you and Chip been seeing? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Oakland, CA 94609 >> > >> > >> > - >> > snakeoil.works >> > >> > Friday, February 17, 2006 11:13 PM >> > Fw: Flu >> > >> > >> > >> > I often use Stemona Tablets from ITM, mainly b/c it's been so >> successful >> > in the past and just keeps on giving.( Use their Belamcanda 15 for heavy >> > duty lung phlegm, either by itself or in combo with the former.) Many >> > colds tail off with that cough that either diminishes or just hangs on ;-) >> > -- is it a mirror of the malingering political disarray that's got us >> > coughing indiscreetly? I wouldn't be surprised. >> > >> > Anyway, for the lung weakening that's taken over from the sorrowful >> > condition of the empire, leading to dry cough that really feels dry, I >> > like ITM's Lily 14. These all work amazingly quickly. I also recommend >> > kumquats - they often help me break up that last hack. >> > >> > [stemona tablets = variant of Ermiao San: baibu, huangbai, cangzhu, >> > kushen, mingdangshen, shenqu. >> > Lily 14 - larger formula, the usual moistening agents plus coolers, >> > debuggers, whatever. >> > And pears. And plums. And peaches. And tangerines. Great excuse to eat 5 >> > clementines.] >> > >> > ann >> > >> > Try adding qian hu. It¹s a good flourish, esp. for such persistent >> > coughs. >> > C >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> > > bei mu gua lou san , mai men dong tang several >>> > > times. >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>> >>> > > Interesting it sounds like we end up doing very similar things this >> > year. I >>> > > have also used a lot of mai men dong yin zi tang. But i have seen >> > quite a >>> > > resistance to treatment. Much more than last few years. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Oakland, CA 94609 >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > - >>>> > > > >>> > > I almost always feel that inside a dry cough is a wet cough that >> > wants to >>> > > come up. My standard herbal response is bei mu gua lou san to >> > moisten the >>> > > lungs and clear phlegm heat. >>> > > >>> > > but with the flu this year, I found m self using mai men dong >> > tang several >>> > > times. >>> > > >>> > > Cara >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>> > >> > I've also seen the followup cough, with loose phlegm in the >> > chest. A >>>>> > >> > few scripts came up. . .zhi sou san in one case, a >> > modification of >>>>> > >> > xiao chai hu tang in another, and huang lian wen dan tang in >>>>> > >> > another. Acupuncture on chest and back shu points helped a lot >> > as well. >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > On Feb 17, 2006, at 12:59 PM, wrote: >>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > Zev >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > I have also been mostly using variations of jing fang bai >> > du but a >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > fair >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > amount of patients just have this cough that would not >> > give up. >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > Most of them >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > develop a dry cough and i do not think its because of jing >> > fang >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > usage as i >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > have seen others that have not been treated and have the >> > same cough. >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > >>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > >>>> >> > ---------- >> > >> > >> > >> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: >> 2/17/06 >> > >> > >> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 20, 2006 by the way my patient's coughs are deep bronchial. Oakland, CA 94609 - Cara Frank Monday, February 20, 2006 6:09 PM Re: Flu I completely agree with Jason about the PND. In Philadelphia, sinusitis and PND are the #1 complaint that I treat. Many, nearly all dry coughs, if they are not deep in the lungs, but higher up, are caused by PND. but to elaborate on Jason's tx strategy: you need to add fragrant herbs to penetrate the deeper sinus obstruction effectively. We carry a formula ( called PND) that I developed out of obsessive musings on this topic. So be sure to include huo xiang, shi chang pu into whatever formula base you are using. Further- always benefit fluids. Always think about moistening. Only using warm dry herbs will ultimately exacerbate the problem. Cara > Jason > thanks, have you seen patients with dry coughs that have responded poorly? I > agree most have had PND and helping that has helped the reflex cough. But i > have about 4 patients that i just cant get rid of the cough, unfortunately me > being one of them > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > > > Monday, February 20, 2006 5:33 PM > RE: Flu > > > Alon, > > I think that one of the key issues in such coughs is where is the cough > coming from, meaning location. For example, it has been common this season > to see this dry cough, but when questioned, the source is many times the > sinus via PND. (I.e. tickle or throat cough)- I many times will treat this > via the lungs, spleen or whatever pathomechanism is appropriate. I have > cured many such dry coughs by actually transforming phlegm and strengthening > the spleen. I guess it is just a matter of DX - sometimes it is fluid > depletion, sometimes fluid obstruction etc etc... But as far as the big > picture, I have not seen any 1 Rx that is predominant this season, I have > used many ideas with patients.... > > -Jason > > > >> > >> > >> > On Behalf Of Alon Marcus DOM >> > Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:11 AM >> > >> > Re: Flu >> > >> > Its interesting that most use herbs that would suggest fluid damage by >> > heat.. The problem that i have had is that my patients have not had heat >> > signs. I have tried formulas such as mai men dong yin zi tang out of >> > desperation kind of allopathic treatment for dry cough. But the >> > pathomechanism was not really there and several have not responded very >> > well. >> > I had a few patients with throat itching leading to dry cough for which i >> > have tried variations of zhi sou san but again did not help. >> > Jason do you have any comments? what have you and Chip been seeing? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Oakland, CA 94609 >> > >> > >> > - >> > snakeoil.works >> > >> > Friday, February 17, 2006 11:13 PM >> > Fw: Flu >> > >> > >> > >> > I often use Stemona Tablets from ITM, mainly b/c it's been so >> successful >> > in the past and just keeps on giving.( Use their Belamcanda 15 for heavy >> > duty lung phlegm, either by itself or in combo with the former.) Many >> > colds tail off with that cough that either diminishes or just hangs on ;-) >> > -- is it a mirror of the malingering political disarray that's got us >> > coughing indiscreetly? I wouldn't be surprised. >> > >> > Anyway, for the lung weakening that's taken over from the sorrowful >> > condition of the empire, leading to dry cough that really feels dry, I >> > like ITM's Lily 14. These all work amazingly quickly. I also recommend >> > kumquats - they often help me break up that last hack. >> > >> > [stemona tablets = variant of Ermiao San: baibu, huangbai, cangzhu, >> > kushen, mingdangshen, shenqu. >> > Lily 14 - larger formula, the usual moistening agents plus coolers, >> > debuggers, whatever. >> > And pears. And plums. And peaches. And tangerines. Great excuse to eat 5 >> > clementines.] >> > >> > ann >> > >> > Try adding qian hu. It¹s a good flourish, esp. for such persistent >> > coughs. >> > C >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> > > bei mu gua lou san , mai men dong tang several >>> > > times. >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>> >>> > > Interesting it sounds like we end up doing very similar things this >> > year. I >>> > > have also used a lot of mai men dong yin zi tang. But i have seen >> > quite a >>> > > resistance to treatment. Much more than last few years. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Oakland, CA 94609 >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > - >>>> > > > >>> > > I almost always feel that inside a dry cough is a wet cough that >> > wants to >>> > > come up. My standard herbal response is bei mu gua lou san to >> > moisten the >>> > > lungs and clear phlegm heat. >>> > > >>> > > but with the flu this year, I found m self using mai men dong >> > tang several >>> > > times. >>> > > >>> > > Cara >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>> > >> > I've also seen the followup cough, with loose phlegm in the >> > chest. A >>>>> > >> > few scripts came up. . .zhi sou san in one case, a >> > modification of >>>>> > >> > xiao chai hu tang in another, and huang lian wen dan tang in >>>>> > >> > another. Acupuncture on chest and back shu points helped a lot >> > as well. >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > On Feb 17, 2006, at 12:59 PM, wrote: >>>>> > >> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > Zev >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > I have also been mostly using variations of jing fang bai >> > du but a >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > fair >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > amount of patients just have this cough that would not >> > give up. >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > Most of them >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > develop a dry cough and i do not think its because of jing >> > fang >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > usage as i >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > have seen others that have not been treated and have the >> > same cough. >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>> >> > >>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > >>>> >> > ---------- >> > >> > >> > >> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: >> 2/17/06 >> > >> > >> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 21, 2006 I have made a database on FileMaker Pro that includes the formula name, category, herbal constituents, diagnosis, and major pathomechanisms. it mainly follows Bensky, but where his pathomechanisms are lacking I look in other sources (Guohui Liu's text, Mitchell's SHL, etc). If anyone is interested, I would be happy to let you see it. I don't think it would be something that is marketable since it uses text that is copyrighted. It is helpful in teaching, though, and it is searchable. -Steve On Feb 20, 2006, at 7:45 PM, wrote: > It has always been my feeling that for a computer program of herbs, > prescriptions or acupuncture points to have redeeming value, it > should add something new. New content, innovative use of existing > information, or exacting scholarship. Like nearly every other > computer database of Chinese medicine in English, this one doesn't > meet these criteria. Understandably, a single practitioner will be > hard-pressed to make an innovative database without funding, > collaboration, etc. If anyone wants to see the potential for CM > database tools, just look at homeopathic programs such as > Macrepertory. It goes beyond the books, synthesizing information > from multiple sources and is truly indispensable to the practice of > homeopathy today. Our profession (at least in English language) is > way behind the eight ball here. > > > On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Al Stone wrote: > >> This TCM Formula Finder is kind of the program that I'd envisioned >> having >> someday. Basically, it is just a searchable database of a bunch of >> formulas >> with all the usual notes and other information you'd want. What I >> like about >> it is the ability to search by a symptom. > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 21, 2006 Stephen I would to see it. Is file maker work on PC Oakland, CA 94609 - Stephen Bonzak Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:30 AM Re: Flu I have made a database on FileMaker Pro that includes the formula name, category, herbal constituents, diagnosis, and major pathomechanisms. it mainly follows Bensky, but where his pathomechanisms are lacking I look in other sources (Guohui Liu's text, Mitchell's SHL, etc). If anyone is interested, I would be happy to let you see it. I don't think it would be something that is marketable since it uses text that is copyrighted. It is helpful in teaching, though, and it is searchable. -Steve On Feb 20, 2006, at 7:45 PM, wrote: > It has always been my feeling that for a computer program of herbs, > prescriptions or acupuncture points to have redeeming value, it > should add something new. New content, innovative use of existing > information, or exacting scholarship. Like nearly every other > computer database of Chinese medicine in English, this one doesn't > meet these criteria. Understandably, a single practitioner will be > hard-pressed to make an innovative database without funding, > collaboration, etc. If anyone wants to see the potential for CM > database tools, just look at homeopathic programs such as > Macrepertory. It goes beyond the books, synthesizing information > from multiple sources and is truly indispensable to the practice of > homeopathy today. Our profession (at least in English language) is > way behind the eight ball here. > > > On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Al Stone wrote: > >> This TCM Formula Finder is kind of the program that I'd envisioned >> having >> someday. Basically, it is just a searchable database of a bunch of >> formulas >> with all the usual notes and other information you'd want. What I >> like about >> it is the ability to search by a symptom. > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 21, 2006 I added the FileMaker file and an Excel file of the database to the board. Obviously you need these programs to run the database. All of the information is present in the excel file, but it does not look too pretty. The FileMaker Pro file is laid out nicer. Let me know what you think. -Steve On Feb 21, 2006, at 9:55 AM, wrote: > Stephen > I would to see it. Is file maker work on PC > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > Stephen Bonzak > > Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:30 AM > Re: Flu > > > I have made a database on FileMaker Pro that includes the formula > name, > category, herbal constituents, diagnosis, and major pathomechanisms. > it mainly follows Bensky, but where his pathomechanisms are lacking I > look in other sources (Guohui Liu's text, Mitchell's SHL, etc). If > anyone is interested, I would be happy to let you see it. I don't > think it would be something that is marketable since it uses text > that > is copyrighted. It is helpful in teaching, though, and it is > searchable. > > -Steve > > On Feb 20, 2006, at 7:45 PM, wrote: > >> It has always been my feeling that for a computer program of herbs, >> prescriptions or acupuncture points to have redeeming value, it >> should add something new. New content, innovative use of existing >> information, or exacting scholarship. Like nearly every other >> computer database of Chinese medicine in English, this one doesn't >> meet these criteria. Understandably, a single practitioner will be >> hard-pressed to make an innovative database without funding, >> collaboration, etc. If anyone wants to see the potential for CM >> database tools, just look at homeopathic programs such as >> Macrepertory. It goes beyond the books, synthesizing information >> from multiple sources and is truly indispensable to the practice of >> homeopathy today. Our profession (at least in English language) is >> way behind the eight ball here. >> >> >> On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Al Stone wrote: >> >>> This TCM Formula Finder is kind of the program that I'd envisioned >>> having >>> someday. Basically, it is just a searchable database of a bunch of >>> formulas >>> with all the usual notes and other information you'd want. What I >>> like about >>> it is the ability to search by a symptom. >> >> >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 21, 2006 i do not have file pro, too bad Oakland, CA 94609 - Stephen Bonzak Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:21 AM Re: Flu I added the FileMaker file and an Excel file of the database to the board. Obviously you need these programs to run the database. All of the information is present in the excel file, but it does not look too pretty. The FileMaker Pro file is laid out nicer. Let me know what you think. -Steve On Feb 21, 2006, at 9:55 AM, wrote: > Stephen > I would to see it. Is file maker work on PC > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > Stephen Bonzak > > Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:30 AM > Re: Flu > > > I have made a database on FileMaker Pro that includes the formula > name, > category, herbal constituents, diagnosis, and major pathomechanisms. > it mainly follows Bensky, but where his pathomechanisms are lacking I > look in other sources (Guohui Liu's text, Mitchell's SHL, etc). If > anyone is interested, I would be happy to let you see it. I don't > think it would be something that is marketable since it uses text > that > is copyrighted. It is helpful in teaching, though, and it is > searchable. > > -Steve > > On Feb 20, 2006, at 7:45 PM, wrote: > >> It has always been my feeling that for a computer program of herbs, >> prescriptions or acupuncture points to have redeeming value, it >> should add something new. New content, innovative use of existing >> information, or exacting scholarship. Like nearly every other >> computer database of Chinese medicine in English, this one doesn't >> meet these criteria. Understandably, a single practitioner will be >> hard-pressed to make an innovative database without funding, >> collaboration, etc. If anyone wants to see the potential for CM >> database tools, just look at homeopathic programs such as >> Macrepertory. It goes beyond the books, synthesizing information >> from multiple sources and is truly indispensable to the practice of >> homeopathy today. Our profession (at least in English language) is >> way behind the eight ball here. >> >> >> On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Al Stone wrote: >> >>> This TCM Formula Finder is kind of the program that I'd envisioned >>> having >>> someday. Basically, it is just a searchable database of a bunch of >>> formulas >>> with all the usual notes and other information you'd want. What I >>> like about >>> it is the ability to search by a symptom. >> >> >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 21, 2006 You can download FileMaker and use it for free for 2 weeks I think, if you want to see it. Steve On Feb 21, 2006, at 10:46 AM, wrote: > i do not have file pro, too bad > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > Stephen Bonzak > > Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:21 AM > Re: Flu > > > I added the FileMaker file and an Excel file of the database to the > board. Obviously you need these programs to run the database. > All of the information is present in the excel file, but it does not > look too pretty. The FileMaker Pro file is laid out nicer. Let me > know what you think. > > -Steve > > On Feb 21, 2006, at 9:55 AM, wrote: > >> Stephen >> I would to see it. Is file maker work on PC >> >> >> >> >> Oakland, CA 94609 >> >> >> - >> Stephen Bonzak >> >> Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:30 AM >> Re: Flu >> >> >> I have made a database on FileMaker Pro that includes the formula >> name, >> category, herbal constituents, diagnosis, and major pathomechanisms. >> it mainly follows Bensky, but where his pathomechanisms are lacking >> I >> look in other sources (Guohui Liu's text, Mitchell's SHL, etc). If >> anyone is interested, I would be happy to let you see it. I don't >> think it would be something that is marketable since it uses text >> that >> is copyrighted. It is helpful in teaching, though, and it is >> searchable. >> >> -Steve >> >> On Feb 20, 2006, at 7:45 PM, wrote: >> >>> It has always been my feeling that for a computer program of herbs, >>> prescriptions or acupuncture points to have redeeming value, it >>> should add something new. New content, innovative use of existing >>> information, or exacting scholarship. Like nearly every other >>> computer database of Chinese medicine in English, this one doesn't >>> meet these criteria. Understandably, a single practitioner will be >>> hard-pressed to make an innovative database without funding, >>> collaboration, etc. If anyone wants to see the potential for CM >>> database tools, just look at homeopathic programs such as >>> Macrepertory. It goes beyond the books, synthesizing information >>> from multiple sources and is truly indispensable to the practice of >>> homeopathy today. Our profession (at least in English language) is >>> way behind the eight ball here. >>> >>> >>> On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Al Stone wrote: >>> >>>> This TCM Formula Finder is kind of the program that I'd envisioned >>>> having >>>> someday. Basically, it is just a searchable database of a bunch of >>>> formulas >>>> with all the usual notes and other information you'd want. What I >>>> like about >>>> it is the ability to search by a symptom. >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted February 21, 2006 thanks Oakland, CA 94609 - Stephen Bonzak Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:51 AM Re: Flu You can download FileMaker and use it for free for 2 weeks I think, if you want to see it. Steve On Feb 21, 2006, at 10:46 AM, wrote: > i do not have file pro, too bad > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > Stephen Bonzak > > Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:21 AM > Re: Flu > > > I added the FileMaker file and an Excel file of the database to the > board. Obviously you need these programs to run the database. > All of the information is present in the excel file, but it does not > look too pretty. The FileMaker Pro file is laid out nicer. Let me > know what you think. > > -Steve > > On Feb 21, 2006, at 9:55 AM, wrote: > >> Stephen >> I would to see it. Is file maker work on PC >> >> >> >> >> Oakland, CA 94609 >> >> >> - >> Stephen Bonzak >> >> Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:30 AM >> Re: Flu >> >> >> I have made a database on FileMaker Pro that includes the formula >> name, >> category, herbal constituents, diagnosis, and major pathomechanisms. >> it mainly follows Bensky, but where his pathomechanisms are lacking >> I >> look in other sources (Guohui Liu's text, Mitchell's SHL, etc). If >> anyone is interested, I would be happy to let you see it. I don't >> think it would be something that is marketable since it uses text >> that >> is copyrighted. It is helpful in teaching, though, and it is >> searchable. >> >> -Steve >> >> On Feb 20, 2006, at 7:45 PM, wrote: >> >>> It has always been my feeling that for a computer program of herbs, >>> prescriptions or acupuncture points to have redeeming value, it >>> should add something new. New content, innovative use of existing >>> information, or exacting scholarship. Like nearly every other >>> computer database of Chinese medicine in English, this one doesn't >>> meet these criteria. Understandably, a single practitioner will be >>> hard-pressed to make an innovative database without funding, >>> collaboration, etc. If anyone wants to see the potential for CM >>> database tools, just look at homeopathic programs such as >>> Macrepertory. It goes beyond the books, synthesizing information >>> from multiple sources and is truly indispensable to the practice of >>> homeopathy today. Our profession (at least in English language) is >>> way behind the eight ball here. >>> >>> >>> On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Al Stone wrote: >>> >>>> This TCM Formula Finder is kind of the program that I'd envisioned >>>> having >>>> someday. Basically, it is just a searchable database of a bunch of >>>> formulas >>>> with all the usual notes and other information you'd want. What I >>>> like about >>>> it is the ability to search by a symptom. >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 5, 2006 Hi All, I have uploaded into the File section of the board a Microsoft Access 2000 database containing Stephens formula database posted earlier. I have also added the ability to perform multiple searches on the database. For example, one can search all the formulas for headaches with a red tongue. This is done by either highlighting a keyword in one of the fields and pressing the " Filter current set with current Field with this Keyword " button. Another way is to select a field by just clicking on one of the fields and then entering a keyword at the bottom of the screen. You can return back to the unfiltered database by pressing the " remove filter " button at the toolbar. Enjoy! Guy On 2/21/06, <alonmarcus wrote: > > thanks > > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > - > Stephen Bonzak > > Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:51 AM > Re: Flu > > > You can download FileMaker and use it for free for 2 weeks I think, if > you want to see it. Steve > > On Feb 21, 2006, at 10:46 AM, wrote: > > > i do not have file pro, too bad > > > > > > > > Oakland, CA 94609 > > > > > > - > > Stephen Bonzak > > > > Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:21 AM > > Re: Flu > > > > > > I added the FileMaker file and an Excel file of the database to the > > board. Obviously you need these programs to run the database. > > All of the information is present in the excel file, but it does not > > look too pretty. The FileMaker Pro file is laid out nicer. Let me > > know what you think. > > > > -Steve > > > > On Feb 21, 2006, at 9:55 AM, wrote: > > > >> Stephen > >> I would to see it. Is file maker work on PC > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Oakland, CA 94609 > >> > >> > >> - > >> Stephen Bonzak > >> > >> Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:30 AM > >> Re: Flu > >> > >> > >> I have made a database on FileMaker Pro that includes the formula > >> name, > >> category, herbal constituents, diagnosis, and major > pathomechanisms. > >> it mainly follows Bensky, but where his pathomechanisms are > lacking > >> I > >> look in other sources (Guohui Liu's text, Mitchell's SHL, etc). If > >> anyone is interested, I would be happy to let you see it. I don't > >> think it would be something that is marketable since it uses text > >> that > >> is copyrighted. It is helpful in teaching, though, and it is > >> searchable. > >> > >> -Steve > >> > >> On Feb 20, 2006, at 7:45 PM, wrote: > >> > >>> It has always been my feeling that for a computer program of herbs, > >>> prescriptions or acupuncture points to have redeeming value, it > >>> should add something new. New content, innovative use of existing > >>> information, or exacting scholarship. Like nearly every other > >>> computer database of Chinese medicine in English, this one doesn't > >>> meet these criteria. Understandably, a single practitioner will be > >>> hard-pressed to make an innovative database without funding, > >>> collaboration, etc. If anyone wants to see the potential for CM > >>> database tools, just look at homeopathic programs such as > >>> Macrepertory. It goes beyond the books, synthesizing information > >>> from multiple sources and is truly indispensable to the practice of > >>> homeopathy today. Our profession (at least in English language) is > >>> way behind the eight ball here. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Al Stone wrote: > >>> > >>>> This TCM Formula Finder is kind of the program that I'd envisioned > >>>> having > >>>> someday. Basically, it is just a searchable database of a bunch of > >>>> formulas > >>>> with all the usual notes and other information you'd want. What I > >>>> like about > >>>> it is the ability to search by a symptom. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
