Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Posted July 27, 2007 hi yes i agree, from a professional point of view it can be frustrating at times to not know, which points did the job and if they did work at all.. i worked once as an assistant for an acupuncturist who did mainly japanese style and i found the hara-diagnosis to be a great tool not only for diagnosing but also to reconfirm if your tratment was succesful or not. but we CM-practitioners do have pulses! i don`t use many needles (2-5).after each insertion i check to see if the pulse is changing according to what i want to achieve. if that is not the case, i manipulate further or choose another point. if the change of the pulses stays stable after taking out the needles i have a strong clue that the points did the job. hope,this helps rebekka Chinese Medicine , " Guy Sedan " <guysedan wrote: > > Hi Nam and Group, > > As a young practitioner (3 years practicing ), there is question that I > would like to bring up to came up in your email. Although we have our > pattern differentiation, treatment strategies and point selection, we never > really know what point did what in the treatment. We are always left > guessing if it was the SI7 that did the trick, or another point in the > selection of points. Sometimes we have to wait to see the patient a week > later in order to know if we are on the right track. > This sense of frustration is stronger when I see my colleagues who had > studied TCM and now have deserted to Japanese acupuncture, claiming that is > much more precise and gives better results. They tell me that they can know > immediatly if the point did the job and if the results were obtained by > checking reflexes , pulses and so on. It sounds too good to be true . I > would like to hear your thoughts on the subject. > > Thanks, > Guy > > > > Any way, that was actually a lucky shot when I chose SI 7. I did not > > expect a good result before I started a treatment. However, > > everybody needs a lucky shot like this once in a while. > > > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2007 Report Posted July 29, 2007 Hi Rebekka I have never seen a modern TCM English textbooks, were it is stated that one can see if the the treatment was successfully by palpating the pulse just after applying the needling . Isn't this idea taken from the Japanese acupuncture? Have you read traditional Chinese texts or seen TCM doctors in China that use such a technique in order to confirm treatment outcome? I sometimes take the pulse after needling the patient, and I do see changes, but I am not convinced that a change in the pulse indicates the treatment was successful. Needling most acupuncture points probably affect the nervous system, which in turn affects the pulse Thanks, Guy 2007/7/27, rebekka <knumpf1: > > hi > yes i agree, from a professional point of view it can be frustrating at > times to not know, > which points did the job and if they did work at all.. i worked once as an > assistant for an > acupuncturist who did mainly japanese style and i found the hara-diagnosis > to be a great > tool not only for diagnosing but also to reconfirm if your tratment was > succesful or not. > but we CM-practitioners do have pulses! i don`t use many needles > (2-5).after each > insertion i check to see if the pulse is changing according to what i want > to achieve. if that > is not the case, i manipulate further or choose another point. if the > change of the pulses > stays stable after taking out the needles i have a strong clue that the > points did the job. > hope,this helps > > rebekka > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " Guy Sedan " <guysedan > wrote: > > > > Hi Nam and Group, > > > > As a young practitioner (3 years practicing ), there is question that I > > would like to bring up to came up in your email. Although we have our > > pattern differentiation, treatment strategies and point selection, we > never > > really know what point did what in the treatment. We are always left > > guessing if it was the SI7 that did the trick, or another point in the > > selection of points. Sometimes we have to wait to see the patient a week > > later in order to know if we are on the right track. > > This sense of frustration is stronger when I see my colleagues who had > > studied TCM and now have deserted to Japanese acupuncture, claiming that > is > > much more precise and gives better results. They tell me that they can > know > > immediatly if the point did the job and if the results were obtained by > > checking reflexes , pulses and so on. It sounds too good to be true . I > > would like to hear your thoughts on the subject. > > > > Thanks, > > Guy > > > > > > > Any way, that was actually a lucky shot when I chose SI 7. I did not > > > expect a good result before I started a treatment. However, > > > everybody needs a lucky shot like this once in a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2007 Report Posted July 31, 2007 hi guy, you are absolutely right,that needling any point will cause a change of pulse, in fact just to lay down for a while and any kind of treatment will change the pulse. but, lets say,while palpating pulse for diagnosis i find a kidney-deficiency and a blocked liver pulse. if, only seconds after needling the kidney pulse grows stronger and the liver pulse flows more smoothly, i do think i can take this as an indicator,that the treatment is going in the right direction,don`t you think? i never read it explicetly in a TCM-book, but they do state that the pulse gives us the most immediate insight into inner-physical and psychological processes. and, most of the long-term experienced practitioners (TCM, ACM and japanese style) i used to work with, were using the pulse as a parameter for " succesful " treatments. sincerely, rebekka --- Guy Sedan <guysedan schrieb: > Hi Rebekka > I have never seen a modern TCM English textbooks, > were it is stated that one > can see if the the treatment was successfully by > palpating the pulse just > after applying the needling . Isn't this idea taken > from the Japanese > acupuncture? > Have you read traditional Chinese texts or seen TCM > doctors in China that > use such a technique in order to confirm treatment > outcome? > I sometimes take the pulse after needling the > patient, and I do see changes, > but I am not convinced that a change in the pulse > indicates the treatment > was successful. Needling most acupuncture points > probably affect the nervous > system, which in turn affects the pulse Thanks, > Guy > > > > 2007/7/27, rebekka <knumpf1: > > > > hi > > yes i agree, from a professional point of view it > can be frustrating at > > times to not know, > > which points did the job and if they did work at > all.. i worked once as an > > assistant for an > > acupuncturist who did mainly japanese style and i > found the hara-diagnosis > > to be a great > > tool not only for diagnosing but also to reconfirm > if your tratment was > > succesful or not. > > but we CM-practitioners do have pulses! i don`t > use many needles > > (2-5).after each > > insertion i check to see if the pulse is changing > according to what i want > > to achieve. if that > > is not the case, i manipulate further or choose > another point. if the > > change of the pulses > > stays stable after taking out the needles i have a > strong clue that the > > points did the job. > > hope,this helps > > > > rebekka > > > > --- In > Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > " Guy Sedan " <guysedan > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Nam and Group, > > > > > > As a young practitioner (3 years practicing ), > there is question that I > > > would like to bring up to came up in your email. > Although we have our > > > pattern differentiation, treatment strategies > and point selection, we > > never > > > really know what point did what in the > treatment. We are always left > > > guessing if it was the SI7 that did the trick, > or another point in the > > > selection of points. Sometimes we have to wait > to see the patient a week > > > later in order to know if we are on the right > track. > > > This sense of frustration is stronger when I see > my colleagues who had > > > studied TCM and now have deserted to Japanese > acupuncture, claiming that > > is > > > much more precise and gives better results. They > tell me that they can > > know > > > immediatly if the point did the job and if the > results were obtained by > > > checking reflexes , pulses and so on. It sounds > too good to be true . I > > > would like to hear your thoughts on the subject. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Guy > > > > > > > > > > Any way, that was actually a lucky shot when I > chose SI 7. I did not > > > > expect a good result before I started a > treatment. However, > > > > everybody needs a lucky shot like this once in > a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > dddd Quote
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2007 Report Posted July 31, 2007 hi guy, you are absolutely right,that needling any point will cause a change of pulse, in fact just to lay down for a while and any kind of treatment will change the pulse. but, lets say,while palpating pulse for diagnosis i find a kidney-deficiency and a blocked liver pulse. if, only seconds after needling the kidney pulse grows stronger and the liver pulse flows more smoothly, i do think i can take this as an indicator,that the treatment is going in the right direction,don`t you think? i never read it explicetly in a TCM-book, but they do state that the pulse gives us the most immediate insight into inner-physical and psychological processes. and, most of the long-term experienced practitioners (TCM, ACM and japanese style) i used to work with, were using the pulse as a parameter for " succesful " treatments. sincerely, rebekka --- Guy Sedan <guysedan schrieb: > Hi Rebekka > I have never seen a modern TCM English textbooks, > were it is stated that one > can see if the the treatment was successfully by > palpating the pulse just > after applying the needling . Isn't this idea taken > from the Japanese > acupuncture? > Have you read traditional Chinese texts or seen TCM > doctors in China that > use such a technique in order to confirm treatment > outcome? > I sometimes take the pulse after needling the > patient, and I do see changes, > but I am not convinced that a change in the pulse > indicates the treatment > was successful. Needling most acupuncture points > probably affect the nervous > system, which in turn affects the pulse Thanks, > Guy > > > > 2007/7/27, rebekka <knumpf1: > > > > hi > > yes i agree, from a professional point of view it > can be frustrating at > > times to not know, > > which points did the job and if they did work at > all.. i worked once as an > > assistant for an > > acupuncturist who did mainly japanese style and i > found the hara-diagnosis > > to be a great > > tool not only for diagnosing but also to reconfirm > if your tratment was > > succesful or not. > > but we CM-practitioners do have pulses! i don`t > use many needles > > (2-5).after each > > insertion i check to see if the pulse is changing > according to what i want > > to achieve. if that > > is not the case, i manipulate further or choose > another point. if the > > change of the pulses > > stays stable after taking out the needles i have a > strong clue that the > > points did the job. > > hope,this helps > > > > rebekka > > > > --- In > Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > " Guy Sedan " <guysedan > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Nam and Group, > > > > > > As a young practitioner (3 years practicing ), > there is question that I > > > would like to bring up to came up in your email. > Although we have our > > > pattern differentiation, treatment strategies > and point selection, we > > never > > > really know what point did what in the > treatment. We are always left > > > guessing if it was the SI7 that did the trick, > or another point in the > > > selection of points. Sometimes we have to wait > to see the patient a week > > > later in order to know if we are on the right > track. > > > This sense of frustration is stronger when I see > my colleagues who had > > > studied TCM and now have deserted to Japanese > acupuncture, claiming that > > is > > > much more precise and gives better results. They > tell me that they can > > know > > > immediatly if the point did the job and if the > results were obtained by > > > checking reflexes , pulses and so on. It sounds > too good to be true . I > > > would like to hear your thoughts on the subject. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Guy > > > > > > > > > > Any way, that was actually a lucky shot when I > chose SI 7. I did not > > > > expect a good result before I started a > treatment. However, > > > > everybody needs a lucky shot like this once in > a while. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Die etwas anderen Infos rund um das Thema Reisen. BE A BETTER WELTENBUMMLER! www..de/clever Quote
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