lucky shots ..did point work or not..?

[Guest guest]

hi

yes i agree, from a professional point of view it can be frustrating at times to

not know,

which points did the job and if they did work at all.. i worked once as an

assistant for an

acupuncturist who did mainly japanese style and i found the hara-diagnosis to be

a great

tool not only for diagnosing but also to reconfirm if your tratment was

succesful or not.

but we CM-practitioners do have pulses! i don`t use many needles (2-5).after

each

insertion i check to see if the pulse is changing according to what i want to

achieve. if that

is not the case, i manipulate further or choose another point. if the change of

the pulses

stays stable after taking out the needles i have a strong clue that the points

did the job.

hope,this helps

 

rebekka

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " Guy Sedan " <guysedan

wrote:

>

> Hi Nam and Group,

>

> As a young practitioner (3 years practicing ), there is question that I

> would like to bring up to came up in your email. Although we have our

> pattern differentiation, treatment strategies and point selection, we never

> really know what point did what in the treatment. We are always left

> guessing if it was the SI7 that did the trick, or another point in the

> selection of points. Sometimes we have to wait to see the patient a week

> later in order to know if we are on the right track.

> This sense of frustration is stronger when I see my colleagues who had

> studied TCM and now have deserted to Japanese acupuncture, claiming that is

> much more precise and gives better results. They tell me that they can know

> immediatly if the point did the job and if the results were obtained by

> checking reflexes , pulses and so on. It sounds too good to be true . I

> would like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

>

> Thanks,

> Guy

>

>

> > Any way, that was actually a lucky shot when I chose SI 7. I did not

> > expect a good result before I started a treatment. However,

> > everybody needs a lucky shot like this once in a while.

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rebekka

I have never seen a modern TCM English textbooks, were it is stated that one

can see if the the treatment was successfully by palpating the pulse just

after applying the needling . Isn't this idea taken from the Japanese

acupuncture?

Have you read traditional Chinese texts or seen TCM doctors in China that

use such a technique in order to confirm treatment outcome?

I sometimes take the pulse after needling the patient, and I do see changes,

but I am not convinced that a change in the pulse indicates the treatment

was successful. Needling most acupuncture points probably affect the nervous

system, which in turn affects the pulse Thanks,

Guy

 

 

 

2007/7/27, rebekka <knumpf1:

>

> hi

> yes i agree, from a professional point of view it can be frustrating at

> times to not know,

> which points did the job and if they did work at all.. i worked once as an

> assistant for an

> acupuncturist who did mainly japanese style and i found the hara-diagnosis

> to be a great

> tool not only for diagnosing but also to reconfirm if your tratment was

> succesful or not.

> but we CM-practitioners do have pulses! i don`t use many needles

> (2-5).after each

> insertion i check to see if the pulse is changing according to what i want

> to achieve. if that

> is not the case, i manipulate further or choose another point. if the

> change of the pulses

> stays stable after taking out the needles i have a strong clue that the

> points did the job.

> hope,this helps

>

> rebekka

>

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " Guy Sedan " <guysedan

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Nam and Group,

> >

> > As a young practitioner (3 years practicing ), there is question that I

> > would like to bring up to came up in your email. Although we have our

> > pattern differentiation, treatment strategies and point selection, we

> never

> > really know what point did what in the treatment. We are always left

> > guessing if it was the SI7 that did the trick, or another point in the

> > selection of points. Sometimes we have to wait to see the patient a week

> > later in order to know if we are on the right track.

> > This sense of frustration is stronger when I see my colleagues who had

> > studied TCM and now have deserted to Japanese acupuncture, claiming that

> is

> > much more precise and gives better results. They tell me that they can

> know

> > immediatly if the point did the job and if the results were obtained by

> > checking reflexes , pulses and so on. It sounds too good to be true . I

> > would like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Guy

> >

> >

> > > Any way, that was actually a lucky shot when I chose SI 7. I did not

> > > expect a good result before I started a treatment. However,

> > > everybody needs a lucky shot like this once in a while.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

hi guy,

you are absolutely right,that needling any point will

cause a change of pulse, in fact just to lay down for

a while and any kind of treatment will change the

pulse. but, lets say,while palpating pulse for

diagnosis i find a kidney-deficiency and a blocked

liver pulse. if, only seconds after needling the

kidney pulse grows stronger and the liver pulse flows

more smoothly, i do think i can take this as an

indicator,that the treatment is going in the right

direction,don`t you think? i never read it explicetly

in a TCM-book, but they do state that the pulse gives

us the most immediate insight into inner-physical and

psychological processes. and, most of the long-term

experienced practitioners (TCM, ACM and japanese

style) i used to work with, were using the pulse as a

parameter for " succesful " treatments.

sincerely,

rebekka

 

--- Guy Sedan <guysedan schrieb:

 

> Hi Rebekka

> I have never seen a modern TCM English textbooks,

> were it is stated that one

> can see if the the treatment was successfully by

> palpating the pulse just

> after applying the needling . Isn't this idea taken

> from the Japanese

> acupuncture?

> Have you read traditional Chinese texts or seen TCM

> doctors in China that

> use such a technique in order to confirm treatment

> outcome?

> I sometimes take the pulse after needling the

> patient, and I do see changes,

> but I am not convinced that a change in the pulse

> indicates the treatment

> was successful. Needling most acupuncture points

> probably affect the nervous

> system, which in turn affects the pulse Thanks,

> Guy

>

>

>

> 2007/7/27, rebekka <knumpf1:

> >

> > hi

> > yes i agree, from a professional point of view it

> can be frustrating at

> > times to not know,

> > which points did the job and if they did work at

> all.. i worked once as an

> > assistant for an

> > acupuncturist who did mainly japanese style and i

> found the hara-diagnosis

> > to be a great

> > tool not only for diagnosing but also to reconfirm

> if your tratment was

> > succesful or not.

> > but we CM-practitioners do have pulses! i don`t

> use many needles

> > (2-5).after each

> > insertion i check to see if the pulse is changing

> according to what i want

> > to achieve. if that

> > is not the case, i manipulate further or choose

> another point. if the

> > change of the pulses

> > stays stable after taking out the needles i have a

> strong clue that the

> > points did the job.

> > hope,this helps

> >

> > rebekka

> >

> > --- In

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> > " Guy Sedan " <guysedan

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Nam and Group,

> > >

> > > As a young practitioner (3 years practicing ),

> there is question that I

> > > would like to bring up to came up in your email.

> Although we have our

> > > pattern differentiation, treatment strategies

> and point selection, we

> > never

> > > really know what point did what in the

> treatment. We are always left

> > > guessing if it was the SI7 that did the trick,

> or another point in the

> > > selection of points. Sometimes we have to wait

> to see the patient a week

> > > later in order to know if we are on the right

> track.

> > > This sense of frustration is stronger when I see

> my colleagues who had

> > > studied TCM and now have deserted to Japanese

> acupuncture, claiming that

> > is

> > > much more precise and gives better results. They

> tell me that they can

> > know

> > > immediatly if the point did the job and if the

> results were obtained by

> > > checking reflexes , pulses and so on. It sounds

> too good to be true . I

> > > would like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Guy

> > >

> > >

> > > > Any way, that was actually a lucky shot when I

> chose SI 7. I did not

> > > > expect a good result before I started a

> treatment. However,

> > > > everybody needs a lucky shot like this once in

> a while.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

 

dddd

[Guest guest]

hi guy,

you are absolutely right,that needling any point will

cause a change of pulse, in fact just to lay down for

a while and any kind of treatment will change the

pulse. but, lets say,while palpating pulse for

diagnosis i find a kidney-deficiency and a blocked

liver pulse. if, only seconds after needling the

kidney pulse grows stronger and the liver pulse flows

more smoothly, i do think i can take this as an

indicator,that the treatment is going in the right

direction,don`t you think? i never read it explicetly

in a TCM-book, but they do state that the pulse gives

us the most immediate insight into inner-physical and

psychological processes. and, most of the long-term

experienced practitioners (TCM, ACM and japanese

style) i used to work with, were using the pulse as a

parameter for " succesful " treatments.

sincerely,

rebekka

 

--- Guy Sedan <guysedan schrieb:

 

> Hi Rebekka

> I have never seen a modern TCM English textbooks,

> were it is stated that one

> can see if the the treatment was successfully by

> palpating the pulse just

> after applying the needling . Isn't this idea taken

> from the Japanese

> acupuncture?

> Have you read traditional Chinese texts or seen TCM

> doctors in China that

> use such a technique in order to confirm treatment

> outcome?

> I sometimes take the pulse after needling the

> patient, and I do see changes,

> but I am not convinced that a change in the pulse

> indicates the treatment

> was successful. Needling most acupuncture points

> probably affect the nervous

> system, which in turn affects the pulse Thanks,

> Guy

>

>

>

> 2007/7/27, rebekka <knumpf1:

> >

> > hi

> > yes i agree, from a professional point of view it

> can be frustrating at

> > times to not know,

> > which points did the job and if they did work at

> all.. i worked once as an

> > assistant for an

> > acupuncturist who did mainly japanese style and i

> found the hara-diagnosis

> > to be a great

> > tool not only for diagnosing but also to reconfirm

> if your tratment was

> > succesful or not.

> > but we CM-practitioners do have pulses! i don`t

> use many needles

> > (2-5).after each

> > insertion i check to see if the pulse is changing

> according to what i want

> > to achieve. if that

> > is not the case, i manipulate further or choose

> another point. if the

> > change of the pulses

> > stays stable after taking out the needles i have a

> strong clue that the

> > points did the job.

> > hope,this helps

> >

> > rebekka

> >

> > --- In

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> > " Guy Sedan " <guysedan

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Nam and Group,

> > >

> > > As a young practitioner (3 years practicing ),

> there is question that I

> > > would like to bring up to came up in your email.

> Although we have our

> > > pattern differentiation, treatment strategies

> and point selection, we

> > never

> > > really know what point did what in the

> treatment. We are always left

> > > guessing if it was the SI7 that did the trick,

> or another point in the

> > > selection of points. Sometimes we have to wait

> to see the patient a week

> > > later in order to know if we are on the right

> track.

> > > This sense of frustration is stronger when I see

> my colleagues who had

> > > studied TCM and now have deserted to Japanese

> acupuncture, claiming that

> > is

> > > much more precise and gives better results. They

> tell me that they can

> > know

> > > immediatly if the point did the job and if the

> results were obtained by

> > > checking reflexes , pulses and so on. It sounds

> too good to be true . I

> > > would like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Guy

> > >

> > >

> > > > Any way, that was actually a lucky shot when I

> chose SI 7. I did not

> > > > expect a good result before I started a

> treatment. However,

> > > > everybody needs a lucky shot like this once in

> a while.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

 

Die etwas anderen Infos rund um das

Thema Reisen. BE A BETTER WELTENBUMMLER! www..de/clever